Hey friends, this is Michael Boehm with Youth Apologetics Training. Today I have Ian Juby on the podcast for the second time, even though you guys haven't heard the first time yet. I've actually recorded a whole series with Ian Juby on the evidence for a global flood. Don't miss that one. But Ian Juby, since you haven't heard that podcast yet, he has his own YouTube channel that's Creation Week. He's a creation scientist. He's all about creationism, young earth creationism. Actually, he's got a lot of DVDs. that I actually talk about in the first series. I actually kind of drool over these DVDs. Since then I ended up buying the set. I've watched several of them and they're awesome. But anyway, Ian Juby, I have him on tonight. We're going to talk about the Bill Nye vs. Ken Ham debate. And some of the issues that were brought up during that debate, it was a great debate. I mean, no doubt. I really enjoyed listening to it. But there were a lot of things brought up by Bill Nye that, well, let's face it, guys. Ken Ham kind of got steamrolled in the sense that Bill Nye brought up so many things, it was just physically impossible. for Ken Ham to refute all of them in the time allotted. And I think that was, well, I think that was a little bit of an underhanded tactic, but it is what it is. Ken Ham also spent a lot of time giving the gospel and taking people back to biblical truths, which I can respect that too. So nothing against Ken Ham, we just want to supplement what happened during that debate and try to address some of the issues that happened during that debate. uh... and so well injury welcome to the youth apologetics train podcast and thanks for having michael You are so welcome. So, yeah, that debate, there were a lot of things that happened during that debate. One of the things I think everybody, anybody who listened to it, would be able to take from this right away was the condescending manner by which Bill Nye came into this debate. I mean, there was a lot of ad hominem attacks, very veiled personal attacks, really, insulting people in Kentucky, And, well, geez, he actually insulted me here in Colorado who just had his Broncos whooped in the Super Bowl. That really offended me. You took that personal ticket. But you're not there. Actually, you know what's funny is that was the first football game I've watched in about, I don't know, 10, 13, 14 years. I used to love football, but ever since I got saved, I just kind of lost interest. But I thought, you know, I'll go to my parents' house, we'll bust out some nachos and eat way too much food. We'll sit down and like the old days, we'll watch a football game. Man, it was fun hanging out with my folks, but that was a disaster. But anyway, I don't want to talk about football. But yeah, there were many personal attacks on Ken Ham. He even made a comment, something to the effect of, people like you believe that Noah was a superhero? Which I thought was kind of a backhanded slap, but I don't know. Did you have any comments about that, Ian? Well, if I recall that particular comment that had to do with whether Noah and his family could actually build the ark and maintain thousands of animals and all of this, which, of course, is all quite feasible. I mean, take a look at modern farms. And they'll have hundreds of cows that they water, feed, and milk every day with only a scarce few people. And people, in fact, it kind of betrayed Bill Nye's understandable, but nevertheless his ignorance and about about past historic and ancestral individuals. He assumed that people in the past were stupider than they are now. Now, he denied this later on when he was specifically asked during Q&A, but that is exactly what he was getting at, was, you know, these people just plain weren't smart enough. In particular, he briefly brought up, he said, well, you know, there's been historic ships built, you know, 300 feet long out of wood, and they fell apart, they leaked, they didn't work. and so therefore Noah couldn't do it. Well, first of all, what Noah could and couldn't do, we weren't there. The ancients did all kinds of things that we do not know how they did it. The pyramids is only one example. To this day, we still don't know how they built the pyramids. Aliens. Clearly. Yeah, exactly. When there's an entire TV show devoted to this, and how it must be aliens with superior technology, like, hello. And they're just smart people. It's that simple. The temple of, oh, I forget the name of the temple. It's in Lebanon. And it's, it's actually built by the Romans on top of the ruins of another ancient temple. And that ancient temple had three stones in his foundation, called the trilithon stones. And those stones weigh a thousand tons each. And we have one crane, with all our fancy high-tech modern equipment in the world, we have one crane in the entire world that can lift those stones. How in the world did they even get him in place? Exactly. I mean, how did they even get him there? Well, exactly. And they moved him miles from a quarry. They hand-carved him from a quarry and moved him. Now, I know how they did it. I'm not going to tell you how. But it's just very smart people. And it's even in the historical documents how they did it. And yet people look at this and they're like, wow, how'd they do that? And it's a very good question because our one crane in the world that can lift those rocks takes up acres of space. And yet these people took these stones down the streets of towns and stuff. So how did they do it? Well, I know how they did it. We're going to reveal how they did it in our documentary Mystery of Noah's Flood when it comes out. And it's for this reason. It's because we're demonstrating that people were super smart in the past. And just because Bill Nye is too dumb to know how Noah built an ark doesn't mean that Noah wasn't too dumb to know how to build an ark. Secondly, Bill Nye is apparently unaware that the Chinese had a series of, they had an entire fleet of what they called treasure junks. And these were up to 600 foot long wooden ships. So they were bigger than Noah's ark. Wow. Made out of wood. And the only reason people are skeptical of the claims of the size is because of thinking like bills. It's like, oh, well, you can't build a ship that big. Therefore, this must be exaggerated. And then they find at the dry docks, which are archaeologically excavated, and lo and behold, the dry docks are big enough to build a 600-foot ship in them. Gee, I wonder why. And at the dry docks, they find the rudder from one of these buried in the dirt at the dry docks. And lo and behold, this rudder was about the approximate size needed for a 600-foot ship. And so, it would appear that the Chinese very successfully built and sailed 600 foot long wooden ships. So, you know, Bill Nye is obviously unaware of all this. But again, it's, you know, even in semi-modern times, we've got people building ships that big. Huh. Huh. You know, okay, he also brought up that, boy this confused me, he kept accusing young earth creationists of believing that natural laws change. Yeah, I love this. I don't understand what he was even getting at. Yeah, well first of all, Ken Ham never said that. He never even alluded to that. uh... he certainly doesn't believe it uh... in fact the only time we would say that is in the exact same time that bill nye would say uh... natural laws were violated and this is just the thing i want to throw this right back at bill because without uh... bill was not called on this unfortunately bill nye must violate scientific and natural laws. Now, if it violates scientific and natural laws, that means it is, by definition of the word, supernatural. It is outside of the natural. There you go. And the laws in particular are biogenesis and the second law, thermodynamics. And the reason is, I mean, Bill was whining and complaining about how, oh man, you guys claim, you know, 16 million species of animals arose from 16,000 on board Noah's Ark 4,000 years ago. Yeah, well, that same guy is saying 16 million species of animals arose from a rock. So, what's the bigger miracle here? So, the thing is, Bill Nye never, ever once, and I always start with this when I'm in a debate, I start at the beginning. And I think it's a great place to start, don't you? It's logical, let's start at the beginning. Okay, how did the first life arise? I guarantee you, Bill Nye will have no answer. And here is why. If I were to ask him that, he would probably just say I have no answer. I would then press him why he has no answer. And the reason for it is because it must violate the law of biogenesis. Now the law of biogenesis is a scientific and natural law, well established. It is actually a scientific law. That's how well established it is. That law states that life only comes from life. In other words, when you have the pre-life world, you have just planet Earth with a bunch of rocks, how do you get from rocks to life? No matter what process you cite, it must violate the scientific and natural law of biogenesis, because you are producing life from non-life. And so he also talked about, you know, railed eloquently about historical and observational science being one and the same. Okay, well if he wants to play that game, the only observable science we have ever had is that life only comes from life. Any junior high school student can verify this. There is no exception. So this is why it's a scientific and natural law. So he must, he actually believes in the supernatural. He may not realize it, in fact I'm quite convinced he doesn't. And that's just the law of biogenesis. The second law of thermodynamics is the same thing, which means basically that the available energy is going to become less and less. He was asked about that during Q&A and said, well, Earth is not a closed system. Well, nobody said it was. In fact, I would ask him, please name me a closed system. What he's talking about is closed systems and open systems. We're talking about heat. A closed system is, say, a box, which does not exist, it's impossible, physically impossible, but theoretically, is, say, a box where heat can neither enter nor escape from the box. That's a closed system. And it's completely theoretical, it doesn't actually exist in real life, obviously. And he's talking about how energy from the sun comes in. Well, yes, energy, and Ken Ham picked up on this and nailed it, energy from the sun shining on a dead stick will not bring that stick to life. So again, this is where it all comes from. In fact, energy from the sun through thermodynamic processes will help to break down the stick back into raw elements. It will deteriorate, it will destroy the stick, not produce life. So it is the exact opposite of what Bill Nye needs, which is to somehow, even if he could take a stick, add energy and make it come back to life, that already would be impressive. But you can't even do that. You can't even take a dead cell and make it live again. Now, of course, we know someone who did. And we would say it was a supernatural event. And if Bill would somehow witness a rock giving rise to life, he would call it a supernatural event. So he does believe in the supernatural. He kept harping on natural laws as if somehow we think natural laws have changed in the past. what's right right i don't know if you have any was he alluding to the fact that maybe okay he was okay he might have been referring to the fact that before the flood uh... is believed that animals eight nothing but vegetarian diets but again that has absolutely nothing to do with uh... supernatural supernaturally A change in diet is not supernatural. He rambled on about lion's teeth, well when I look at lion's teeth, they're designed to eat meat. The funny thing is, I think you noticed I went on a bit of a tweet fest during that debate. hopped on Twitter and I was giving play-by-play commentary. That's one of the things that evidently Bill has not taken note of. He's of course referring to, you know, when Bill says, well look at the teeth of the lion and it needs meat. What are you picturing in your mind? What teeth? Well, you're thinking of those big saber teeth up front. Yeah, the big fangs, right? Clearly it's a meat eater. The thing is, if you watch a lion eat meat, it doesn't use its fangs to eat meat. It uses its back molars. And there's good reasons for that. The fruit bat has fangs. It eats fruit. That's what it eats. It seems to me like those fangs are used just to initially puncture whatever they're eating, whether it's a piece of fruit, bamboo, or, well, a zebra. Yup, the koala bear is another one. It's got fangs. What is it? Bamboo. You know, but not the koala, sorry, the panda, the panda bear. Yeah, yeah. So the geese have absolutely nothing to do with it. There's nothing supernatural going on there, so I don't know what he was getting at, except he was trying to point out that we believe in the supernatural. Actually, the truth of the factor is we all believe in the supernatural, we just acknowledge it. And we acknowledge where the lines are drawn between science and the supernatural. He does not. Bill does not know about it. He does not understand the lines and he flat out denies it. He just doesn't realize he believes in the supernatural as well. Okay, I'm going to stop right there, guys. Now, tomorrow, see, all right. In this debate, so many things were brought up. For example, Bill Nye continued to challenge Ken Ham to come up with examples of organisms, of animals swimming between layers. He said that basically, if anybody was able to produce that evidence, scientists around the world would rejoice and they would throw a parade and they'd throw you up on their shoulders and parade you through town. And I mean, it would just be this wonderful thing. They would all embrace you. And science would completely change. They would change their theories and throw out what's bad and stick with what's good. Well, friends, we're going to address that tomorrow. Are there examples of organisms, animals swimming between layers? Yeah, there's lots of them. We're going to talk about that tomorrow, or at least within the next couple of days. Also, Bill Nye brought up Another objection that Ken Ham had not provided any evidence of Predictions that you know young earth creationism provides no good predictions for science Wrong wrong again. We're gonna deal with that over the next couple days as well We're gonna talk about all kinds of things friends. Don't miss out on this. We're going to deal with pretty much all of the unanswered questions that happened during that debate. And no fault to Ken Ham. I mean, he did a fantastic job. But the fact is, Bill Nye just, you know, it takes a few sentences to bring up an objection. And it takes 5, 10, 15 minutes to give a good answer. And Bill Nye knows this. This is what is referred to as the steamroller tactic. And he used it very well. He steamrolled Ken Ham with all kinds of objections, knowing full well that even though there are some fantastic answers to these objections, Ken Ham just simply doesn't have the time to answer them all. Which to me, well, feels a little disingenuous. I don't know, guys. Yeah. And one more thing. Genesis Week, not Creation Week. I said earlier in this podcast that Ian Juby's YouTube channel, which is fantastic. You guys got to check this out. But I called it Creation Week and it's actually Genesis Week. Check it out. Genesis Week on YouTube. He's got about a bazillion episodes on everything under the sun creationism. Good, solid resources. You guys gotta check that out. And with that, I love you guys, and I'll see you tomorrow.