Oh boy. Man, man, man, man, man. No, no. What is happening, ladies and gentlemen? What is going on in our world? What is happening? Do you have the feeling that everything is unraveling? Do you have a feeling everything is falling apart? Maybe you're one of these individuals going, yes, Finally, the world is being fixed. All of our problems are being resolved. We got exactly what we wanted. This is great. It's a golden era. The new era has entered all the problems. Maybe you are one celebrating right now. I'm sitting here looking at what's happening in the world and all I can just... I mean... I don't even have words. Oh no is probably the best I can say. It's like, oh no, it's like, no, no, no. And every time I see another news article, I'm just like, what is happening? What is happening? This cannot be happening. But this is what a lot of people wanted, I guess. I guess this is what a lot of people voted for. So I guess what I'm going to try to do is talk about it. We'll do that right after I welcome everyone. Good afternoon, everyone. It is Wednesday, February the 5th, 2025. It is currently 12.06 p.m. Central Time. And I'm coming to you live from the Theology Central Studio, located right here in Abilene, Texas. Now, I don't know if you've been... If you haven't been paying attention to the news, that's probably a good thing. At this point, if you pay attention to the news, you may start losing your ever-living mind, but I have to kind of encourage you, you do need to kind of keep up with what's going on in the world because it's really unsettling right now. If you go to, I'll just give you, if you go to, I've got so many news articles open here. If you go to, let me see here. If you go to the drudge report, drudge report, uh, uh, drudge report.com, drudge report.com. Well, they've changed a lot of this. They've changed a lot of this. Um, and basically, how can I even say this? It sounds crazy. President Trump has basically suggested that, I don't know, the United States of America just takes over Gaza and we just move out, like what, 1.2, I don't know the exact number, over a million people. We're just like, hey, we're taking over. You all have to go somewhere else. You got to go to different countries. The Palestinians, you have to leave. America is taking over Gaza. And I'm like, this cannot be real. It's just crazy. And not only that, now there's discussion about a new temple on the Temple Mount. Wait, what is happening? Now we kind of got biblical prophecy possibly coming into play. I just got breaking news. Saudi Arabia rejects Trump's Gaza takeover. Oh, you think? Global fury builds. Oh, you think? The scheme is mocked. Don't you think? but then there's the story of new temple on the mount here's a picture of i don't know who this is um there's someone who was at the press conference where trump was talking about america taking over gaza and the person look is looking at trump and their their eyes are so big they're like what is he suggesting right now It's insanity! But we're going to try to put this all together. We're going to try to look at all of this. We're not going to focus on the new temple on the Temple Mount right now, that suggestion being put forth. We won't get into that story in this broadcast. We're going to talk about Trump's plan for America to take over Gaza. Oh, and using American troops! As former military, I'm like, what is happening? Okay. So, so let's try. I don't even know what to say. I don't even know what to say. This is the craziest thing I've ever seen in my life. Okay. So, but at the same time here, so here's what I need to do. Here's what I need to do. I need to try to address this. in a rational, reasonable way, and try to avoid wild speculation, try to avoid, you don't wanna be hyperbolic, you don't wanna downplay it, you don't wanna overstate it, but you don't wanna understate it. I don't wanna let any political bias come into play, right? It doesn't matter if you're pro-Trump or if you're not for Trump, right? The issue is, What do we make of this? I know I've already called it crazy, so I guess I've already in a sense given away that I'm not necessarily, well, I'm definitely not for this, so I guess I'll be transparent. But I do want to be fair, right? Trump did things in his first term that I thought were going to be catastrophic or bad, and it didn't necessarily turn out exactly the way I thought. So I'm not always right when I react to something from a political, geopolitical, cultural perspective. Again, I don't pretend to have any great expertise in that area. I mean, my focus is mainly on theology, right? That's where all of my education is. That's where all of my pursuit has been. So I can't say I've always gotten everything right. But I think my concern has always been valid based on multiple factors. So what I'm gonna try to do is just try to be as fair as I can be about this. What we're going to do is we're gonna look at his plan. We're gonna hear how it's being covered around the world. I'm not so worried about, well, I think this is important. When you're paying attention to anything Trump is doing, anything Trump is doing, President Trump, anything that he's doing, Please, I beg you for the love of bubblegum, do not just listen to Fox News and your conservative little bubble to hear them tell you how great everything he's doing and they defend it and they defend it and you got to add some other perspectives in. You've got to hear other challenges to it. And just because he makes a claim, I know this is shocking, but he lies a lot and that's been well documented. He puts forth misinformation frequently. So challenge it, research, study, do, and not just listen to other conservatives, do actual research. So I think that's very important. But I'm going to try to be fair here. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to listen to at least a report. And I like listening to how people outside of the United States covers things where I just don't get a pro-American perspective. I want to get all perspectives. So we're going to go to the BBC and listen to a report that just dropped a couple of hours ago. I don't think they even have the new information about Saudi Arabia rejecting Trump's Gaza takeover. I mean, everyone's going to reject it. I mean, OK, well, never mind. I won't get into all of my geopolitical philosophy here. So what we're going to do is listen to them. Then we're going to kind of summarize, look at the possible consequences of such a radical plan. And then we're going to look at it from a theological perspective, because this is called Theology Central. So that's what we're going to attempt to do. Man, I just, I don't know what is happening. And this is just, I mean, there's so many crazy things, but let's listen. Let's go to the BBC. This just dropped a couple of hours ago. Let's hear how they are reporting on it. And then we will, we will, we'll break it down and summarize everything that's going on. There's been widespread condemnation of Donald Trump's plan for the US to take over Gaza and move out the Palestinians living there so that he can, in his words, turn it into the Riviera of the Middle East. Mr Trump made the announcement at a joint news conference with the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Saying he thought Jordan and Egypt would take in the more than 2 million Palestinians who currently live in Gaza. This despite their previous statements refuting the idea when he first floated it last month. At the White House news conference, Mr. Trump put forward his vision for how Gaza, much of which lies in ruins, should be rebuilt. The only reason the Palestinians want to go back to Gaza is they have no alternative. It's right now a demolition site. They can live out their lives in peace and harmony instead of having to go back and do it again. The U.S. will take over the Gaza Strip, and we will do a job with it, too. We'll own it and be responsible for dismantling all of the dangerous unexploded bombs and other weapons on the site, level the site, and get rid of the destroyed buildings. Mr Trump's plan to occupy Gaza seems to amount to an abandonment of decades of US policy to find a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Mr Netanyahu praised it as an idea worth paying attention to, calling Mr Trump the greatest friend Israel has ever had in the White House. But these Palestinians in Gaza said they would resist any attempt to remove them. We reject the decision to displace the Palestinians from Gaza and Palestine. We'll not leave our land. As for me, I'll not leave Gaza. None of us will leave our country and we'll not kneel to anyone. I mean, try to over 2 million people and Trump's like, Hey, you just got to go. Hey, we're just going to take over your land. We're just going to go and we're going to rebuild it. I thought all I ever heard from Trump supporters for four years is, we've got to stop getting involved in other conflict. We don't need to send all of this money to Ukraine. We don't need to do this. And because anything the Biden administration would do, we'd criticize, criticize, criticize, criticize. And now we're like, hey, yeah, let's just go take over someone else's land, move out 2 million people, and we will rebuild it. And we will be responsible for everything. Clean up, everything. I mean, what would be the cost? How many trillions upon trillions of dollars? I guess, I don't know, someone else is going to supposedly pay for it? Like, what is it? This is about making America great again. This is about make Gaza great again. I don't even understand what is happening. And of course, if you're a Palestinian, you're like, wait a minute, America's just going to come in and say, Hey, get out, go, go to another country. We own it. We own your land. We just, you know, we just, we just take it over. And it was just, it's just ours. I, I, I, I don't even know what to say. I'm stumbling over my own words. I don't even know what to say. I, what I, Okay, let's just listen to a couple more responses. I think you know how the Palestinians are going to respond to this. I think you can see why the Palestinians would be like, what? I guess we're going to go in with military troops and forcibly move people off their land and just take over and just become an occupying force in Gaza? That should make our American troops really safe in the area. We were surprised by Trump's decision to displace the entire Gaza Strip to Egypt and Jordan, and we categorically reject this decision. We refuse to leave Gaza during the war, and we are staying here. We will not leave at all. I got more on the Palestinian and Israeli reaction from our Middle East correspondent, Yolande Nell. Of course, you can understand the responses. You can just understand how it's going. Here's just kind of a summary, all right? So on February the 4th, 2025, President Trump, alongside Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, announced a plan for the United States to take over the Gaza Strip. The proposal involves relocating approximately 1.8 million So a lot of people just to relocate approximately 1.8 million Palestinians currently residing in Gaza to neighboring countries such as Egypt and Jordan. Following this relocation, the United States tends to develop Gaza envisioning as basically a Riviera of the Middle East with significant investments and infrastructure and economic opportunities. So 1.8 million people, you got to go. And hey, other countries, you got to take 1.8 million Refugees, 1.8 million immigrants, you just got to take them. Now America, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're going to put up a fence. Nobody's coming into our country, but we're going to tell other countries that, hey, you get 1.8 million people just because we're taking over Gaza and we're moving these people out. We're not asking them to go. They've got to go. Well, what is happening? Here's kind of an outline. The proposal announcement on February the 4th, 2025. Participants, President Donald Trump and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Of course, there was not a representative of the Palestinians weren't represented here. They didn't have any other participants in this discussion. The location was the White House press conference. Here are the key components of the plan. A relocation of the Palestinians. Move the entire population of Gaza to neighboring countries, Egypt and Jordan. Aim to provide Palestinians with safer and more stable living conditions. I guess you could say that's a positive. Hey guys, we want to make it better for you. But again, Do you get to say, do they get a choice? Hey, we want to make things better for you and you have to leave. Or do we say, does the other countries even have a say-so in this? I mean, it seems like kind of a, like, just, we're making the plan and this is what we're going to do. You're not going to have a discussion with the other nation. I mean, it just seems like very, and maybe it's just, you know, just because that's the way the announcement would make, but you think you would have some major discussions with everyone else before you made such an announcement. I mean, that's what I would, that's what I would think. All right. The redevelopment, clear existing war debris and unexploded ordinances, invest in infrastructure to transform Gaza into a prosperous region, create new economic opportunities and housing. That all sounds great. Hey, we're going to make it better. We're going to build back better. We're going to make it great. We're going to make it wonderful. I guess is the United States doing all of this investment? Is the United States taking? He says it would be our responsibility. We would own it. Well, if we own it, then it's going to be us. So that means your tax dollars and my tax dollars are going to go to rebuild Gaza to make it better again. I mean, there's lots of issues here. rationale behind the plan, address the current uninhabitable conditions in Gaza. Now, those do need to be addressed. Gaza has been just utterly destroyed. It's uninhabitable. How can we address that? Okay. I can see at least, I can see some of the rationale here, promote regional stability in the Middle East. Now, will it promote stability? Hey, America came in. America now owns Gaza. We moved out 1.8 million Palestinians. Does that provide stability or does that lead to America is right there in Gaza? Now let's basically bring in an insurgency and try to kill as many American troops and as many American contractors as we can and basically create a new call for jihad. Which way does it go? offer the Palestinians a chance for a better quality of life. Now, offering them one is one thing. Hey, would you guys, like you, you talk to the other nations, Egypt, Jordan, they're like, you know what? You're right. We will bring in all one country brings in this, this much of the, of the 1.8 million, this country, everyone's in agreement there. They have the infrastructure. They're ready to receive all of these immigrants. If everyone is on board and the Palestinians are like, you're right, I want to get out, or you just offer it for those who want to leave. It's one thing if you're doing it that way, but you got to have lots of people agreeing to this. And I think the Palestinians should have some right to make a decision, but okay. reaction to the proposal, the international community widespread condemnation labeling the plan as a form of ethnic cleansing concerns over potential violations of international law. I mean there is a thing called law, international law, and some people may not like for it to be classified as ethnic cleansing But it is basically, hey, we're cleaning out all of these people. All the Palestinians, you have to go. I guess we're going to move in non-Palestinians. Do we move in Israelis? Do we move in Jews? Do we move in Americans? Who now takes over? Who gets to live there? Are we going to determine who lives there based off their ethnicity? Based off their religion? There's just so many questions here. neighboring countries, Egypt and Jordan, have rejected the idea of resetting Palestinians within their borders. Hey, we're going to do this and the other countries are like, no, you're not. We're not taking 1.8. Maybe the United States will accept 1.8 million Palestinians. I mean, hey, I mean, if America's going to own it, then don't we bring those people that we're going to move out to America? I mean, hey, I mean, America is so, I mean, especially the Trump supporters, they love immigration. They love open borders. So do we bring in all 1.8 million to America? Where do they get to? Where do they get to live? Where do they get to live? Oh, no, no, no. We wouldn't want that, but we want other countries to do it. And other countries are like, we're not going to do it. So where do the Palestinians go? I don't even know what to say. All right. I'm getting more notifications here of other breaking news about all of this. Okay. Palestinian leadership, strong opposition. Yeah. Strong opposition emphasizing the right of Palestinians to remain in their homeland. Now you can get into an argument on who, I mean, people have been fighting over that land forever. So they're going to continue to fight over the land. I just know this. America has no claim to the land. That I know to be true. You can argue Palestinians, Israel, who has a right to the land? It's not America, ladies and gentlemen, I can tell you that. Human rights organizations' criticism over forced displacement and potential human rights violations. Yeah, I think there would be so. Now, President Trump's proposal represents a significant departure from a traditional U.S. policy, which has historically supported a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The BBC just mentioned that. Okay, I got no problem departing and saying, hey, the two-state solution isn't working. We got to come up with something else. I'm all for that. I'm all for even having these conversations in private, right? In private going, all right guys, all right, here we go. I got an idea. I know this is a crazy idea. I'm going to put it on the whiteboard. Let's move out 1.8 million Palestinians and America takes it over. Everybody's like, that's a crazy idea. I know, it's brainstorming. Okay, what do we need to make this work? Well, we got to have a place to put the 1.8 million Palestinians. All right, well, let's contact the surrounding nations and see if they're willing to take in the 1.8 million. Are they willing to do it? No. Okay, well then I think our plan is falling apart before we even get started. Hey, does anyone know if the 1.8 million Palestinians want to go? No, they don't want to go. Huh. that may cause a problem. So do we do it by force? Is there any international laws that could possibly stop this? You think this would be talked about behind closed doors? You don't just announce it at a press conference. America's going to take it over. What is happening? The plan's emphasis on relocating an entire population raises complex legal, ethical, and logistical challenges. Don't you think? There's some serious issues here. The proposal has been met with substantial criticism for several reasons. Here's some of the criticisms that have been offered. Number one, ethical concerns. forcibly relocating a population is widely regarded as a violation of human rights and could be classified as ethnic cleansing. Now I want to just say right here, now again I say this all the time when it comes to Trump, when I say this all the time, If you're an atheist, if you're an agnostic, then you don't care about—if Trump lies, why would you care? Who cares about truth? If Trump spreads misinformation, who cares? If Trump is a bully and says horrible things, you don't care. From a Christian perspective, I've always been perplexed by Christians are like, yeah, Trump! Trump! Everything he says and does is the antithesis to Christianity, but for some reason it's Christians like, he's our savior. I'll never understand it. It makes no sense, but okay. And I'll say, but his policies, even as some of his policies are the antithesis to Christianity in many cases, like this. So, As a Christian, you should be concerned about the ethical concerns, if I can speak correctly. Because when you try to relocate an entire population, Basically because of their ethnicity, because you're Palestinians, you just have to leave. You got to go. We're just removing you completely out. That's almost a form of ethnic cleansing. You may not be killing all of them, but you're saying you all have to leave because of your ethnicity. You're the wrong ethnicity. And so we're going to bring someone else in from a different ethnic group. That's, come on, this is an ethical issue, and as Christians you should be bothered. These are human beings. You may not agree with their politics, but they're human beings, and just another nation's going to come in and say, sorry, you go, all of you, 1.8 million, get out, We're taking over. Oh, we're going to build it. We're going to build it back better. We're going to make it like the Riviera. This is going to have, I don't know, are we going to have casinos and resorts? It's going to be, do they all have Trump's name on them? Legal challenges. So there's the ethical concerns. I want to keep using the word ethnic versus ethical, but ethical concerns. legal challenges. International law prohibits the forced transfer of populations, making the plan potentially illegal under treaties which the U.S. are a part of. We're a part of treaties that say you cannot do this. But according to Trump, who cares about international law? Let's just do it. What are you talking about? What, what? Again, I got no problem in private going, so what do you think? What do you think? What do you think about this? What are our issues? What are the ethical concerns? What are the legal concerns? Let's, let's work this. Let's talk. You don't announce it at a press conference. Feasibility issues. Just how feasible is this? Well, neighboring countries have expressed unwillingness to accept large numbers of Palestinian refuge, complicating the relocation aspect of the plan. Yeah. You've got to have other countries that are willing to take in somewhere between 1.8 to 2 million Palestinians. Now, if the United States wants to do this, then we could go through and talk to the Palestinians and go, hey, have you ever wanted to come to America? Since we're gonna take your land, we're gonna let you come to our land. Oh, I can just see Trump supporters loving that idea. How about the potential for increased instability? The forced displacement of Palestinians could lead to heightened tensions, do you think? And conflict in the region, do you think? Undermining the stated goal of promoting stability. While the proposal aims to address dire situations in Gaza and promote regional stability, it faces significant moral, legal, and practical obstacles and makes its implementation highly contentious and potentially detrimental to the prospects of peace in the Middle East. And so I wanted to verify, I wanted to verify because I'd seen some reports that Trump, President Trump wanted to involve United States military, which of course I took great like, whoa, wait, what? The United States military is going to go in and do this? The United States military? So we're going to be sending all of our, a good portion, or I don't know how many, I'm not going to say all, a large, a significant amount of military to go occupy Gaza? nobody wanted us to get involved in the Ukrainian situation? So I had to ask AI this and AI said, President Trump has indicated that US military involvement could be part of his plan to take over and redevelop the Gaza Strip. At a press conference with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on February 4, 2025, Trump proposed relocating the Palestinian population from Gaza to neighboring countries and suggested that the United States would assume control of the territory for redevelopment purposes. Well, I think he said we would own it. I don't think he just says we would take control. We would own it, all right? Because we just heard part of the clip just a little while ago. When asked about the potential deployment of American troops to support the initiative, Trump did not rule out the possibility, stating, if it's necessary, we will do that. The proposal has been met with significant criticisms and concerns from various international actors, including US allies such as Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia. Critics argue that forcibly relocating Gaza's residents involving U.S. military forces could violate international law and basically destabilize the Middle East. And I've got lots of sources here for all of that. So then I was like, so what could be the consequences? If you involve the United States military, what could be the consequences of this? Well, number one, you have military and geopolitical consequences. what could some of these military and geopolitical consequences be? Well, I think the first one is obvious, an escalation of conflict, right? A US military presence in Gaza could provoke armed resistance from Palestinian factions like Hamas and other militia groups, leading to a prolonged conflict similar to past US occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan, And I was in the military during those occupations. And we just, do you want to go back and count how many American soldiers died in those occupations? And we're going to go occupy Gaza? Now, not only would you have Hamas, what about Iran and Hezbollah? You got Hamas who's not going to be happy. How about Iran and Hezbollah? Iran, which supports Hamas, could see this as an act of aggression and escalate military or proxy conflicts against U.S. interests and the region, potentially involving Hezbollah and Lebanon. So you'd have Hamas, you'd have Hezbollah, you'd have other groups who would be like, what is happening? America trying to put their presence here? I mean, you just, oh man, what would even happen? You would increase tensions with regional powers. Countries like Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia would likely condemn U.S. military action, potentially straining diplomatic and economic relations. Yeah. Do you think? Do you think? Oh, wait. Oh, yeah. Oh, well, I could get into some of the possible economic issues, but I won't go into all of that. But guess what else would happen? I guarantee you, now this part I'm pretty confident on. Well, I agree Hamas and Hezbollah is not going to be happy. I definitely agree Iran is not going to be happy. I definitely agree some of those other nations are not going to be happy. That I think I'm pretty certain on. But I think you can just absolutely know that it's going to be a terrorist recruitment bonanza. recruitment for terrorists would surge dramatically. U.S. military intervention could be used as a rallying cry for extremist groups, leading to increased recruitment for ISIS, for al-Qaeda, similar to what happened after the Iraq invasion. We go there, we move out a million, almost two million Palestinians, we take over Gaza. I mean, it's going to be, it's a recruitment poster for all those terrorist organizations. It screams to them, they're coming to take your land. They're coming to destroy your way of life. Fight now. I mean, you can write the recruitment poster for them. So those would be some of the military and geopolitical consequences of a United States military being involved in this. Then you have legal and ethical concerns, which you have legal and ethical concerns about the entire idea from the start. It's a violation of international law. Forcibly removing a civilian population and taking control of a foreign territory would likely be considered illegal under international law, including the Geneva Convention, which we are a part of. could then be accused of war crimes. Civilian casualties, if anyone starts dying, would be almost inevitable. Most people think it would be inevitable. And any military action leading to potential accusations of war crimes and human rights violations against the U.S. We could be guilty of war crimes. Now, I think in many cases what we did in Iraq When we accused them of having weapons of mass destruction, we went in and all those civilians died. I think it was war crimes right there. I mean, I already think America has already been guilty of this in the past. We had no business going into invading Iraq in 2003. after September the 11th, 2001, and the next thing we were like, we're going into Afghanistan to get Al-Qaeda. And next thing you know, we're going into Iraq because they supposedly have weapons of mass destruction that any reasonable person, I mean, I got myself in trouble in the military yelling and screaming during a briefing going, there's no weapons there. This is ridiculous. Okay. Give me a break. Well, guess what? We went in and we killed a lot of people. And I think that is right there. But if we go in and we just move out 1.8 million Palestinians and take over, and if in the process there's any conflict where civilians die, I mean, come on. At the very minimum, it's not ethical. It's not right. Even if you don't want to say it rises to the level of a war crime, impact on the Palestinian population, the forced displacement of millions of Palestinians would likely be seen as ethnic cleansing, further damaging U.S. credibility and moral standing on the world stage." We would have—I don't even think we have any moral standing as it is. So those would be the military and geopolitical consequences. Those would be the legal and ethical issues. How about domestic political and economic impact. What would be the domestic, political and economic impact of American troops getting involved in this situation? Well, there would be political backlash in the US. Many Americans, including politicians from both parties, would likely oppose another Middle Eastern military intervention due to the long and costly wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Go look up how much money we spent in Iraq and Afghanistan. Go look up how much money we spent. And we're going to do the same thing again? Another domestic, political, and economic thing to consider is the financial cost. Military operations, nation building, and long-term occupation would require billions, if not trillions. I said trillions. I think it's trillions. I don't think it would be billions. I think it would be trillions. But okay, I'm willing to go and say possibly billions. And it would be taxpayer money. This would only lead to increasing our deficit, hurting our economy, and taxpayers would spend all of this money to make Gaza great again, I guess, and not, I mean, I'm just wrapping my mind around this. And of course, you know what this is going to increase. It's going to increase domestic terrorist threats. People in the Middle East are going to want retaliation and they're going to attack U.S. interests at home here in the United States, abroad, and could increase leading to heightened security concerns and possible terrorist incidents right here on American soil. They're going to be like, you came here, you got rid of over 2 million people, you took over, but then we're going to come there and we're going to strike terror in the United States of America. You can't say that we would not be a grave concern. So if the US military gets involved, we have the military and geopolitical consequences, we have legal and ethical issues. We have domestic political and economic impact and we have global standing and diplomatic fallout. Traditional U.S. allies including NATO countries and European nations would likely oppose this move, weakening alliances and international cooperation. U.S. sanctions are condemnations. The U.S. could face resolutions condemning its actions at the United Nations politically leading to sanctions or diplomatic isolation. They could place sanctions against the United States. As AI summarized this, a U.S. military intervention in Gaza would almost certainly lead to a prolonged conflict, international condemnation, and significant geopolitical instability. The risks far outweigh any perceived benefit. Such an action would likely create more problems than it would solve, further entrenching animosity in the region for generations to come, which it definitely would. And just remember, typically in that part of the world, they may not be able to strike immediately. They may not even be able to strike tomorrow, but sooner or later, the terrorist organizations will strike. And we saw that September the 11th, 2001. you can in many cases take that all the way back to our involvement when Iraq invaded Kuwait and we decided to get involved. We could go all the way back to how that all played out, right? Osama bin Laden wanted to take care of the problem himself and say, hey, this is an Islamic, this is a Muslim, this is our problem. Let us take care of Saddam Hussein. Let us take care of this. We will solve this. We will get Iraq to go back We will get them out of Kuwait." They wanted to solve the problem themselves. The next thing you know, American troops are there, and that created then the call for jihad against America because the great Satan had now placed our corruption, our corrupt our corrupt presence on Islamic soil, and so that created all the problems. Now, it took a long time to go from Desert Storm to September 11, 2001, but it was ultimately—that would put it this way—a major contributing factor to what led to it. Took a long time. So if we go do this, I'm not saying anything would happen immediately, but you're creating, again, the animosity and the climate for retaliation that may come much later, but it would be coming unless it could be stopped. We're not even talking about all the other disruptions and chaos that can ensue. So how do we look at this from a biblical and theological perspective? How do we look at all of this from a biblical and theological perspective? Your friends are going to be yelling and talking about it. Basically, what I have seen is, if you're a Trump supporter, this is brilliant, this is great. About time we move out those Palestinians. This is the right thing because, you know, Trump is God and he can't do anything wrong. And even if Trump says things about the situation that are not even accurate, you can't have a rational conversation because many of the MAGA supporters, it's impossible to have a communication with them because they're not willing to look at any facts that go against Trump's words is considered fake news even if they're factually, even if Trump's words are factually in error. It's the most mad, I've never seen, it's so cult-like it's not even, it's not, it just drives me crazy. So I don't even know how to deal with that. So, But you can argue with them about facts, you can argue with them about politics if you want to engage in that. To me, it's meaningless. I'd rather just ram my head into a side of a brick wall than have too many prolonged conversations with Trump supporters because it becomes maddening. It really becomes sad that they just are so, will not deal with how to approach these subjects from a fact-based situation. So I don't really want to even engage that. But those MAGA supporters who claim to be Christians, that's where I always just get confused by, like, you're supporting that? What are you doing? And it's just crazy sometimes. So I just want to try to say, hey, look, if you claim to be a Christian, if you're MAGA, if you're all pro-Trump, great. I don't care. I don't want to know. I don't care about your red hat. I don't care about all of your politics. I do care that you claim to be a Christian. So how do we look at this from a Christian perspective? Well, let's talk about the ethics of war and military force. Now, I understand what I'm getting ready to put forth here is going to go against most of you and the churches you go to, but I am very much a supporter of the just war theory that was put forth by Augustine and Thomas Aquinas and others throughout church history. The just war theory, the just war doctrine, was very much the Christian way of thinking about war for a long time. Now by the time I – when I come into Christianity, obviously way after Augustine, way after Thomas Aquinas, I found that Christians didn't really believe in the just war theory. Their ethics on war was like, America is right! No matter who we bomb, no matter who we kill, no matter who we invade, we're the good guys and everyone else is the bad guy. We want to drop a nuclear weapon on a civilian population, so be it! We're right! America! America! They were more nationalistic. than theological. It was more pro-America than it was pro-God. I started realizing, man, I don't think American Christians even know what the just war doctrine is. I've talked about it so many times, countless times, that from a Christian perspective, We have to have a Christian framework in which to determine when military action is justified, when it is not, when it is right, when it is just, when it is wrong. It's not always easy, but at least we would have a formula in which to argue. This nationalistic wave the American flag and America is always right is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in my life from a Christian perspective. So let's look at this from the just war theory. Throughout church history, Christian history, the concept of just war theory or just war doctrine has been developed primarily by theologians like Augustine and Thomas Aquinas. As I said, the Bible does not explicitly outline a formal theory of war. Many believe principles can be drawn from it. So what Augustine and others did, they went to the Bible and tried to draw principles of war that could be applied and then would give Christians a theological framework to go, okay, here's this conflict. How do we look at it? And of course, it was developed not with America in mind, okay? Augustine wasn't thinking about America. Thomas Aquinas wasn't thinking about America for obvious reasons. So just war is not just make sure some Christians want to take just war doctrine and still make it about America. It's not about America. I know it's a shock to people. It's not about America. So let's start with the idea of just cause. Typically, this is understood that war should only be waged to prevent grave injustice. The proposed displacement of an entire population of all the Palestinians would probably not meet the criteria of just war. It probably would not. In fact, I don't think it would even come close. So right there, we just want to forcibly move about 2 million people out of their land because of their ethnicity? Because they're Palestinians? I don't think there's anything just about any of that. So just war theory would talk about a just cause. How about legitimate authority? War should be declared by a lawful authority, but international law and the sovereignty of nations should also be respected. In just war theory, do we have the authority to do this? Do we not respect the sovereignty of other nations? How about international law? Do we not have to care about international law? How about proportionality? Typically in just war, the response must be proportionate to the threat. An occupation and forced removal of an entire population would far exceed any immediate security concern. So, does it meet just cause? I don't think so. Legitimate authority? Don't think so. Proportionality? I don't think so. It's already starting to fall, fail, when you look at it from a just war perspective. How about last resort? That's typically a just war concept. All peaceful means must be exhausted before war is justified. Diplomacy, negotiation, and humanitarian efforts should be prioritized over military intervention." Now, some may say, well, this issue with Gaza, with the Palestinians, and Israel has been going on forever, so maybe this is the last resort. Some may try to argue this does meet the just war criteria, but us taking over Gaza, does it really fix the problem? Because the Palestinians and Hamas and Hezbollah and all these groups who hate Israel, all these Islamic countries who don't believe Israel should exist, they don't just simply go, well, America moved into Gaza. We're good with Israel now. Unless now we say we own Gaza and now we own the responsibility to protect Israel. Are we going to go all in that way? And that we just, we're just going to take up permanent residence in Gaza as the United States military and just become responsible for that entire region? How many, I mean, there's a lot there to be talked about. A forced takeover of Gaza and the removal of its people could be seen as an aggressive war rather than a just war, making it difficult to reconcile with biblical ethics if you go with the just war doctrine. I know many of you do not. You're going to go with the Trump doctrine of war or the Bush doctrine of war, and I've never understood Christians who surrender their ethical and biblical view to politicians who clearly, in many cases, are operating from a completely contrary biblical view. Alright, so how about when we also talk about just what we talk about human dignity and the image of God. All humans are created in the image of God. That's a basic premise of Christianity, right? I need you to understand this. The Palestinian people are created in the image of God. those in Iran, those in China. They are created in the image of God. They are not a political problem to be destroyed, they're not a problem just to be removed, they're human beings created in the image of God with an eternal soul. We can't just, sometimes it's just weird how when Christians talk about these issues, it's usually Christian men, I say it all the time, I got so sick of hearing Christian men talk about it, we just need to turn that whole place into a parking lot. It's like, you're talking about what? Annihilating all of the humans there? Just killing them all? Yeah, Thank you for being such a good Christian man. It just ticks me off when I hear Christian men talk that way. Nothing Christian about it. Now, if you're an atheist or an agnostic, then by all means, wipe them off the face of the earth. Blow them up. Just destroy everything. Take over. I understand. It's survival of the fittest. It's those who have the most power. Yeah, I can understand that ethical framework. But Christians are just like, wait a minute. Those are human beings created in the image of God who have an eternal soul that will either go to heaven or suffer for eternity in hell. That's a major ethical issue when dealing with these problems. We supposedly believe that according to Genesis that humans, that all humans, We supposedly believe that the book of Genesis teaches that all humans, including Palestinians, are created in the image of God. The forced removal of people from their homeland, does it not violate maybe some God-given dignity, basic human rights? Do we believe people have human rights given to them by God, or do we not believe in human rights? Do we not believe in God-given dignity? In Deuteronomy 10, God commanded Israel to care for the vulnerable, including the sojourner and the oppressed. God commended Israel in Exodus 22, you shall not wrong a sojourner or oppress him for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt. Proverbs 31 tells us open our mouth for the mute for the rights of all who are destitute. Do we not have to care for people? Do we not have to show some concern, some love? Should that not be an ethical concern for Christians? Wait, how do we handle this from a humanitarian perspective? How do we deal with this? Now, we also have to, at the same time, see those within Israel who were killed and slaughtered on October the 7th. Those are human beings creating the image of God. At the same time, we gotta be concerned about that. How do you work this out? Again, removing all of them from Gaza, does it make Israel safer? And if it does, or does it only spark more outrage and more conflict where more people die? A policy of forced displacement contradicts, I think, at least the basic Christian idea. The biblical emphasis is always on justice and mercy, not on might and conquest, other than in those circumstances. We can't deny it, where God intervenes and tells, hey, go and slaughter everyone. And those are very disturbing passages, but we would have to process that. Those are definitely descriptive, not prescriptive. I think we would also, from a biblical perspective, have to talk about the role of nations and God's sovereignty. How do we understand this? Now, I think this is very important. Because many Christians, especially under the Trump administration, this Christian nationalism and this, like, manifest destiny idea many Christians almost feel like. that Trump has been given a divine mandate and anything he does comes directly from God. They've almost just given over whatever the Trump administration does. It's manifest destiny. It's God's will. And so if he wants to remove 2 million people and take over this land, it's from God. I'm gonna push back on that. You see, some might try to justify military intervention using the belief that certain nations are ordained by God to exhort control over others. Biblical history does not support the idea of one nation imposing its will on another in such a manner. It just doesn't. There's nothing that would say America has been given this divine destiny to go take over and remove people. Now you could say Israel may have been given that, you could say Israel would have been given that, and then we can get into a whole discussion. So then should it be America taking over or should it be Israel taking over? And then that gets into whose land, and we can get into all the consequences of all of this. I think ultimately God will give Israel the land, but God's going to be the one who does it. God, and I think it's going to be done in a, I think in a Revelation, what, you know, 19 kind of way. He will come back. He will destroy the enemies. Then you have the thousand years. Then they will get the land. If you're going to look at it from a theological perspective, let God be the one to destroy the enemies. There's no call in the New Testament for Israel to go in and destroy all of their enemies and take the land. They were given that call early on in the Old Testament, but there's nothing in the New Testament that comes anywhere. It doesn't call for any other nation to do it. It doesn't call for Israel to do it. Whether Christians like to hear this or not, the United States is not a theocratic nation. It is not a new Israel with a divine mandate to control foreign lands. The assumption that military might equals divine favor is not a biblical principle. We are not new Israel. We are not a theocracy. No matter how many Christians want to make us a theocracy, we are not. So a biblical, what's a biblical framework here? Well, we have to consider the ethics of war and military force. We have to think of just war doctrine. We went through all of that. We have to think of human dignity and the image of God. We have to think of the role of nations and God's sovereignty and understand America is not a theocratic nation where God is telling us to go take control over other people's lands and displace entire populations. We have to love our enemies and pursue peace. Jesus' teaching places a high emphasis on peace and reconciliation rather than conquest. Over and over and over, we see that. Love your enemy, turn the other cheek. live as peaceably with all as much as possible. Blessed are the peacemakers." On and on and on and on and on and on. Military intervention that forcibly removes a people group is not an act of peacemaking, but of aggression. It is difficult to reconcile such an action with Jesus' command to love and serve others, even those with whom we disagree and have conflict. Now, at least as Christians, now I understand the military may have to do something in some situations, but in this situation, it doesn't meet the just war criteria. And as Christians, we should be greatly bothered by all of this. Now, how should Christians respond? Well, does the global church, do you and I as a Christian, Do we have a role, do we have a place, do we have a part to play in speaking maybe somewhat prophetically, speaking somewhat boldly, speaking somewhat loudly against injustice? Do we not have a biblical call to call for peace? Military intervention in Gaza risks aligning Christianity with imperialism and power rather than with the gospel of Christ. We don't want to be connected to imperialism as Christians. We don't want to be connected to military might as Christians. We want the world to know what we bring you is the gospel of Jesus Christ. What we bring to you is the message that God has sent his son to die for you so that you can be saved from your sins. We do not come bringing an American flag. We do not come bringing Trump. We do not come bringing Republican conservatism. We come bringing the gospel. We don't want to be associated with it in any way, shape, or form. We are called, in Micah 6, verse 8, and this is, I think, for all of us to some degree, oh man, what is, he has told you, oh man, what is good and what does the Lord require of you, but to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God. Isaiah 1, 17, learn to do good, seek justice, correct oppression. James 1, 27, true religion involves caring for the vulnerable, not exhorting dominance. We want to bring Christianity. We don't want to be connected with all of this. As the church is concerned, the church that gets involved in Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump. Now you take the cross, you basically sat on top of the cross a red hat that says, make America great again. You cover the cross and the American flag. That is wrong. Then people reject Christianity, not on the basis of Christianity, but on its association with Republicans, its association with Trump, its association with military might, imperialism, conquering, removing people. Don't do that. Some would argue, and in fact AI made this statement, if the church remains silent or supports such actions uncritically, it compromises its moral authority and the church loses its witness in the world. AI was like, hey, if you support this and you do so in an uncritical way, you don't have any moral authority as the church. The church just becomes a political arm for the Republican Party. And all it is, it's just basically a pro-Trump cult. And if you want to be a pro-Trump cult, go form it. Just leave Christianity out of it. Leave Jesus out of it. Leave the Bible out of it. Just go worship Trump. Create the Church of Trump. Go worship the American flag. Just please, for the love of all that is godly, leave Christianity out of it. I got no problem. Hey, oh, where are you going Saturday? Well, on Saturday nights we get together for a pro-Trump rally. Go do it. I got no problem. Just Just don't leave, put Christianity in it, okay? I got no problem. Be as patriotic as you want. Be as pro-Trump as you want. Make America great again. Yell and scream to build the wall. Yell and scream that the problems in this country is because minorities have been hired for jobs and some because they have black skin or brown skin, or they're a woman, they're not qualified. Go yell, scream everything Trump screams. Yell it, scream it. Blame, do it. I got no problem with it. Go. just another political movement that will sooner or later be in the dustbin of history like all the other political movements. I don't care. But from a biblical theological perspective, please keep Christianity out of it. Keep Christianity, keep your stinking politics out of Christianity for the love of all that is right. Please don't touch Christianity. Now from a biblical and theological perspective, a U.S. military intervention in Gaza, particularly one involving forced displacement, is not justifiable. That's not my words. AI even says that. It's just you can't justify it. from a biblical perspective. I know I'm gonna get all the emails from Trump supporters. Let me tell you, if you're a Trump supporter and you support Trump, please, that's okay. Go, just go, just go. We're trying to have a theological conversation here, a biblical conversation here. Theologically and biblically, you can't say the United States should go in, take over Gaza, and displace two million human beings, and force them to leave, and I guess send them to countries that don't even want them, and we just forget international law, and even forget the treaties that we have signed. There's nothing Christian about that. If that's your politics, then go for it. You won the election, get your people to go do it. Go do it. Go support it. Go remove, kill, do whatever you want to do. Blame, condemn, do whatever you want to do. You won the election. Go. Just leave Christianity out of it. That's all I'm asking. And then I pray and hope That in two years, enough people will wake up and go, what is happening here? And there'll be a massive backlash politically and they'll vote all of this nonsense out. And then, then Trump will lose his power and there'll be a lame duck president for two years. And at the end, it'll all be over. But I don't know if it's going to happen that way because it's politics and I don't really care to get involved in it. I just don't want Christianity to be pulled into this. So how should a Christian respond? Well, we should condemn forced displacement as an injustice and advocate for the dignity of all people, including Palestinians. And please note the difference between the terrorist groups, Hamas, Hezbollah, versus individuals. We want to condemn. I condemn forcibly the ideology of Hamas, Hezbollah, many of these terrorist groups. Obviously, I condemn them. But at the same time, you don't label everyone who's a Palestinian or everyone who lives in Gaza as a terrorist. That is prejudice, bigotry, and just ridiculous, and that's not demonstrating seeing the dignity of human beings as creating the image of God. We have to condemn the forced displacement if it was to occur, and we have to advocate for the dignity of all people. We should, hopefully, prioritize this as Christians. The second thing we should do, we should prioritize diplomacy, humanitarian aid, and peace efforts over military action. We at least should. We absolutely must, as Christians, challenge a nationalistic or imperialistic interpretation of scripture that justify war and conquest. This nationalistic, imperialistic interpretation of scripture must be condemned. That's what I'm concerned about. The gospel calls for reconciliation. The gospel calls for love to enemy, love to our neighbor. The gospel calls for bringing the message of salvation to all people. It does not call for dominion. It does not call for domination. And any policy that promotes injustice, bigotry, prejudice, hatred, anything like that over peace is an opposition to, well, the things we supposedly believe as Christians. Now, I don't know how all this is going to play out. I don't know. The world is still kind of reeling from all of this. If I go, let me just look right now. Let me do a refresh. The Drudge Report had changed a lot of its headlines. All right. It just says, Global Fury. It says, Global Fury builds over Trump's plan to turn Gaza into the Middle East Riviera. U.S. President faces outrage from Arab countries and key European capitals over his dangerous proposal that Palestinians should be removed from the coastal enclave. European countries joined Arab nations Wednesday in rebuking a shock announcement by United States President Donald Trump that he wants to take control over Gaza and forcibly displace its inhabitants to neighboring countries including Jordan and Egypt. Trump's remarks that the U.S. should own Gaza and turn it from a demolition site into the Riviera of the Middle East sparked immediate blowback from Palestinian officials, their regional allies around the Middle East, and key European capitals. Germany's foreign minister said that the proposal to move the Palestinians was unacceptable against international law. A French government spokesperson said Paris is fully opposed to the displacement of populations, calls Trump's proposal dangerous for regional stability. The UK prime minister said Palestinians must be allowed home to rebuild. will not allow the rights of our people, for which we have struggled for decades and made great sacrifice to achieve, to be infringed upon," said the Palestinian president. Egypt's foreign minister says that they support the legitimate and inalienable rights of the Palestinian people. Jordanian officials had not responded publicly or replied to Politico's request for comment on Trump's plan and time of publication. An overnight statement from the Saudi Arabian foreign minister said it had warned former current United States administrations about the Palestinian people's rights and once again stated it would not establish diplomatic relations with Israel if certain conditions were breached. Trump has repeated at least four times in the last few days that Palestinians in Gaza should be displaced to the neighboring countries. First, floating the idea on January the 25th, following a call with the Jordan's king and promoting widespread condemnation that the move would amount to ethnic cleansing and violate international law. These are all the things we discussed. All right. Yeah, there's a lot more here. And then it's talking about the, I'm just, there's a lot here. The British Prime Minister said they must be allowed to rebuild and we should be with them and that they rebuild on the way to a two-state solution. So obviously there's no one else in agreement with this. That's okay. Again, I don't really care about it from the political standpoint. I mean, we looked at it, we analyzed it from a political standpoint, all the possible ramifications. I tried to be fair and say, I could understand the thinking here to some level, right? I can see it to some level, like in a private meeting. Well, what if we could just remove all of them out and we could rebuild it? Then maybe there'd be this place of prosperity, a place of peace, and this could be a good thing, right? I can see at least the initial thought But then you have to go, well, wait a minute, where did they go? Where did the 2 million people go? Do we forcibly remove them? Well, there's problems there from international law and ethical concerns. Wait, the other nations are like, we're not going to take them. Do we bring them to the United States? Oh, I would love to see Americans. I would love to see those pro-Trump people respond to that. You have to just start breaking it down. I would have no problem at all. with Trump having this conversation in private. Like, hey guys, I know we've always gone with the two-state solution. It's never worked. How about we blow up that idea? Let's go with a radical idea. America owns Gaza. Let's go. All right. Give me the pros and the cons to it. And you're doing this in private. You're doing it in private. I'm all for it. I would be like, yeah, that's a radical idea. I may even be sitting in the meeting going, that's the dumbest idea I've ever heard. But when you do brainstorming, nobody says it's the dumbest idea. You just try to figure out how to make it work. And then, because a lot of times what you do, if you'll start with the idea, try to figure out how to make it work, you'll see all the things that would stop it from working. You don't even have to go whether it's a good idea, bad idea, or whether it's a dumb idea. You can just say, this thing falls apart. Well, it falls apart when you have 2 million people and they have no place to go. You have a problem when you want to come in and take over an area, but all the nations surrounding that area are like, absolutely not. Well, that could lead to some severe military situations. We can look at it from that perspective. But again, it's my issue is, I already saw this talked about on a number of Christian websites and the Christians and they're like, yeah, yeah, Trump, Trump. And it's like, I don't get it. It's just weird. Like Trump says it and they think it floated from heaven from the throne room of God. It is insanity. It is cult-like. I didn't necessarily want to talk about this today. Definitely didn't want to spend 70 minutes with other things we could talk about, right? Other things. But it had to be addressed to some level. So I will continue. Hang on. I'm getting more notifications here. All right. Okay. Right here from the Wall Street Journal, Middle East leaders reject Trump's Gaza proposal. What you need to know about Trump's plan to turn Gaza into the Riviera of the Middle East. Okay. I'm just looking at all of these. Tracing the origin of Trump's Gaza real estate dream. Okay. There's just one notification after another. Trump's tariffs impact on Americans. US will take over Gaza Strip. Okay, here, Trump considers long-term ownership of God. These are all podcast notifications that I have received since I started broadcasting. It's just one after another, after another, after another. Yeah. There's a lot there. So I felt like we needed to talk about it. Again, it wasn't necessarily my intention to go that long, but I tried to look at it from every perspective possibly, right? I tried to look at it somewhat from just a geopolitical, military, try to look at it from that perspective. I tried to look at it from a Christian history perspective in some ways. I could have broken this down, outlined it a little better. I tried to compare it to the just war doctrine. I try to look at it from just a biblical theological perspective. I think I've tried to be fair. Do I have a bias? Yeah. I mean, I don't agree with pretty much anything Trump supports. Or even if I may support an idea, I don't support anything that he says about it, how he goes about it, and I definitely don't support the constant misinformation, you know, yeah don't even get me started about the plane crash and that don't even oh man that was just outrageous and oh disgusting i don't even get me started on that so yeah do i do i have a an anti-trump bias to a level i will admit it i will i try to admit it i try to be fair with it But again, my issue is if I leave Christianity tomorrow, right, then I don't care about looking at things from a biblical and theological perspective. Do I even care about truth anymore? I don't care if Trump lies. I don't care if politicians lie. I'm going to choose a political side and let's get what we can get. I don't care about ethics. I don't care about morality. Okay, but the minute I have to bring in the Bible and Christianity, then I'm like, I'm supposed to care about this, and I'm supposed, this is wrong, and this is wrong, and this is, I have to, I'm supposed to look at it differently. Just like I'm supposed to look at my own life and go, well, this is wrong, and you do this wrong, and you do this wrong, and acknowledge all of my own failure and my own sin, which there is plenty. All right, I'll stop. Because I'm starving. All right. So, yeah. All right, thank you very much. I wish I had something profound to say. I don't have anything profound to say because this is just insanity. I don't even know, I literally don't know what to say. You heard me stumbling over words constantly throughout this. See, I'm just struggling with the word throughout, throughout the entire thing. Yeah, I mean, I was trying to think about some of the words I stumbled over. I don't even remember all of them. But yeah, I mean, I was just like, I'm just baffled and confused that this is where we are. I don't, there's no way it's happening. I, let's at least be, I don't think there's any way it's happening. I just can't, I can't comprehend it. I can't comprehend it. I can't comprehend it. And I hope if for anybody in the United States military, oh man. Depending on what your job is, I hope you're not placed in this situation where you have to go forcibly remove two million people and just take over land just because the United States thinks it's the best idea. I mean, man, I'd have some struggles and all of that. All right, we'll see. My thing is the outrage is loud and Trump will have to blink and he'll have to backpedal. I think we'll have to, at least I think so. I could be wrong. I mean, we saw all the things with the tariffs and then, oh, I'm gonna put it on pause. I'm gonna put it on pause. So I'm hoping there's gonna be a, maybe by the end of the day, we'll get an update and some things have stepped back calmer. calmer minds have prevailed, calmer voices have prevailed, and we can have maybe some modified plan here. I don't know. I'm holding out hope. We will see. But in the meantime, well, just remember. Please, get as far away from politics as you can. Wash your hands of it. The whole thing. It will corrupt your Christianity. I told about that this was going to be a problem this year. I don't even want to be spending all this time talking about it. But we have to at least address it somewhat from a biblical perspective. You can't allow your Christianity to be corrupted by any political ideology, whether it's Trump, MAGA political ideology, or whether it's liberal, socialist, communist, whatever else you want to label it. Christianity has got to be kept separate from those things. Those things will corrupt your Christianity. They will corrupt it. And your Christianity will stop being Christianity. And your Christianity will simply become a tool used by politicians to offer spiritual justification for their actions. And Christianity is not a tool for politicians to justify their political actions. All right. Thanks for listening. God bless.