Looking at our world from a theological perspective, this is the Theology Central Podcast, making theology central. What just happened? Does anyone have a good answer? What in the world just occurred? It played out on live television for the world to see. Everyone is reacting. Everyone is talking about it. People are angry. People are upset. Some people may be celebrating it. If I'm going to be completely honest with you, like I have to be very transparent here, I got so upset watching this. Literally, my hands were shaking. My heart felt like it was gonna beat out of my chest. I got mad. I got angry. I got upset. I got every emotion one can feel. It all hit me at the same time. My daughter was calling me like, what is happening? What is going on? Are you watching this? This is insane. And I'm like, I have no words. I'm still trying to process it. And we're gonna try to figure this out together. So let me say good afternoon, everyone. It is Friday, February the 28th, 2025. Wow, it is currently 2.46 p.m. Central Time. I'm coming to you live from the Theology Central Studio located right here in Abilene, Texas. I don't, where do, maybe we begin with this? You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War III. You're gambling with World War III. And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country, that's backed you far more than a lot of people said they should have. Hello and welcome to Ukraine the Latest. We've only recorded an emergency podcast once before, when Prigozhin launched his mutiny. But we have just watched one of the most extraordinary press conferences in modern political history, one which could have huge implications not only for the war, but for the West itself. President Zelensky had arrived at the White House a few hours earlier, apparently to sign the minerals deal we've discussed in detail so much this week. The press conference between him, Trump, and Vice President J.D. Vance began cordially, but then this happened. He broken the ceasefire. He killed our people, and he didn't exchange prisoners. We signed the exchange of prisoners, but he didn't do it. What kind of diplomacy, J.D., you are speaking about? What do you mean? I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country. Mr. President, with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office and try to litigate this in front of the American media. Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the President for trying to bring an end to this conflict. Have you ever been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have? I have been to, I've actually watched and seen the stories, and I know what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour, Mr. President. Do you disagree that you've had problems bringing people into your military? And do you think that it's respectful to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country? A lot of questions. Let's start from the beginning. First of all, during the war, everybody has problems. Even you. But you have nice ocean. And don't feel now. But you will feel it in the future. God bless. God bless. God bless. You will not have war. The President Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going to feel. Because you're in no position to dictate that. Remember that. You're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel. We're going to feel very good. We're going to feel very good and very strong. You're right now not in a very good position. You've allowed yourself to be in a very bad position, and he happens to be right about it. You're not in a good position. You don't have the cards right now. With us, you start having cars. Right now, you don't have. You're playing cards. You're playing cards. You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War III. You're gambling with World War III. And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country. That's back to you. Far more than a lot of people said they should have. Have you said thank you once this entire meeting? No, in this entire meeting, have you said thank you? You went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October. Offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the president who's trying to save your country. Please, you think that if you will speak very loudly about the war, you can... He's not speaking loudly. He's not speaking loudly. Your country is in big trouble. Can I answer? No, no. You've done a lot of talking. Your country is in big trouble. I know. You're not winning. You're not winning this. You have a damn good chance of coming out okay because of us. Mr. President, we are staying in our country, staying strong from the very beginning of the war. We've been alone, and we are thankful. I said thanks in this cabinet. You haven't been alone. You haven't been alone. We gave you, through the stupid president, $350 billion. We gave you military equipment. And you men are brave, but they had to use our military. If you didn't have our military equipment, if you didn't have our military equipment, this war would have been over in two weeks. In three days. I heard it from Putin. In three days. This is something new. Maybe less. In two weeks. Of course, yes. It's going to be a very hard thing to do business like this, I tell you. Again, you just say thank you. I said a lot of times thank you to American people. Except that there are disagreements, and let's go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to fight it out in the American media when you're wrong. We know that you're wrong. But you see, I think it's good for the American people to see what's going on. I understand, sir. I think it's very important. That's why I kept this going so long. You have to be thankful. You don't have the cards. You're buried there. Your people are dying. You're running low on soldiers. Listen, you're running low on soldiers. It would be a damn good thing. And then you tell us, I don't want to cease fire. I don't want to cease fire. I want to go. And I wanted this. Look. If you could get a ceasefire right now, I tell you, you take it. So the bullets stop flying and your men stop getting killed. Of course, we want to stop the war, but I think you don't want to say that to you. I want to see you guarantee because you'll get a ceasefire faster than a degree. Ask our people about ceasefire, what they think when the press conference ends. I don't I don't even know what to say about that. That literally happened. That literally happened, ladies and gentlemen. What was that? It felt like a schoolyard bully's ganging up on someone. I mean, what is that? It all sparked when he said something negative about Putin. Then all of a sudden, Trump and J.D. Vance, you can't say anything negative about Putin. No, not under the Trump administration, not for many conservatives. Sadly, for many Christians now are on the side of Russia. Now on the side of Putin, I will never understand what happened. I don't get it. That was the most insane thing that has, I don't, I can't, I can't even believe what happened. We're going to walk through all of this. I'm going to let them just say a couple of things here. about what happened immediately after this press conference. This thing was insane. Zelensky was there to sign this mineral agreement that America was going to have some mineral rights then and then offer possibly some type of security. I'm oversimplifying so that maybe we could bring this to an end. But the thing is, Trump has basically—he won't call out Putin for invading Ukraine. He won't call out Russia. He will not. He's so supportive of Russia and Putin. I don't get it. I have no words for what is happening, but let's listen to what they say happened after and then I'm going to walk through everything. I'm going to walk kind of a description, I'm going to walk through a summary of events, I'm going to walk through an outline of what occurred, and then I'm going to try to look at this from a biblical and theological perspective, and then I'm going to try my very, very, very best to explain what has occurred within Christianity with an American conservatism that now supports Russia because something has dramatically changed. I've been watching this for years now. I think it was maybe two years ago I was reviewing a sermon from a Calvary Chapel church, from someone very, very, very popular within the Calvary Chapel movement. And within that sermon, they started mocking and attacking Zelensky and those in Ukraine in the middle of a sermon. And I was like, that's it, I'm done. That's the first time and the only time I've ever stopped a sermon review. And I said, I will never listen to that man again. I can't believe from a pulpit, you're literally mocking someone whose country has been invaded and the people are dying. And Christians, and remember the clapping? The people literally applauded? Like in a church? Like, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't get what's happening. So here's, they're going to briefly describe what happened after. Zelensky left the White House. The planned press conference was cancelled and it would appear that the minerals deal is now off. President Trump then posted the following on social media. We had a very meaningful meeting in the White House today. Much was learned that could never be understood without conversation under such fire and pressure. It's amazing what comes out through emotion, and I have determined that President Zelensky is not ready for peace if America is involved, because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage in negotiations. I don't want advantage. I want peace. He disrespected the United States of America in its cherished Oval Office. He can come back when he is ready for peace. Now they go on for another 15, 16, 20 minutes, and you can go listen to that. I don't even have words for that. Everyone's talking about it. So what I'm going to do is walk through it based on the outline I gave you. I'm going to give you a kind of a summary. I'm going to kind of give you an introduction. I'm going to give you a summary. I'm going to give you an outline of what happened. I'm going to look at it from a biblical theological perspective, and I'm going to try to break down what happened, why this shift has occurred that You know, if you're a Republican, well MAGA, I'm going to say if you're MAGA and you're all pro-Trump, you tend to be pro-Russia. I don't get this. I don't understand this. And many Christians have followed this. What has occurred? I'm going to try to break this down. So let's go through this, all right? I'm going to do my very best to go through this rapidly. I am so, to me, if you're asking me my opinion, Zelensky felt like he was set up. He was called in to supposedly do this you know, press conference, sign this deal and all of this, but then he gets in there and boom, he gets immediately just, because he dared call out Putin for breaking agreements and for doing this and for doing, no, no, no. You see, Zelensky, shut up and color. You can't say anything bad about Putin because the Trump administration is pro-Russia. I, I, I don't, I don't, I don't get it. All right, but here we go. And a dramatic, I'm borrowing from news articles, I'm borrowing from a number of sources here. I've got a one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10. I've got like probably 12, 13 different sources, taking paragraph from different sources, then put together all by artificial intelligence to try to help outline and bring this all together. Here we go. In a dramatic and unexpected turn of events, a high-stakes meeting at the White House between U.S. President Donald Trump, Vice President J.D. Vez, and Ukrainian President Zelensky erupted into a heated confrontation. The meeting intended to discuss U.S. support for Ukraine and its ongoing conflict with Russia, and to finalize a significant minerals deal concluded abruptly without any agreements. The summary of events kind of go like this. Accusation of disrespect. President Trump accused President Zelensky of disrespecting the United States and suggesting that Zelensky was gambling with World War III by not aligning with U.S. expectations. Vice President Vance echoed these sentiments, criticizing Zelensky for a perceived lack of gratitude for U.S. support. Also, there was someone in the press conference who criticized Zelensky for not wearing a suit, but we won't even get into that childishness, all right? Abrupt, abrupt conclusion. The escalating tensions led President Trump to cut the meeting short, stating that Zelensky could return when he is ready for peace. This decision also resulted in the cancellation of planned joint press conference and the signing of a minerals deal that was anticipated to bolster Ukrainian's economy. European allies reaction. The confrontation has caused concern among European allies who have been steadfast in their support for Ukraine. The French president and the German chancellor reaffirmed their commitment to Ukraine's sovereignty and criticized the US administration's approach. expressing fear of increased isolation and the effort to support Ukraine. So, the peace deal is off the table, I guess. I remember President Trump said he could solve this entire war in the first day when he was elected within like 24 hours. Well, he didn't do that. He didn't do anything. I'm just going to get frustrated and get mad. But this now leaves the Ukrainian people and Ukraine, I don't know. I guess now Russia can just go in and kill everyone. I guess, hey, And remember Trump already reverted to Zelensky as the dictator, not Putin, but Zelensky. Don't even get me started on all of that. But here's kind of an outline. So basically if you need to understand this, a high profile meeting at the White House involving U.S. and Ukrainian leadership. The key issues that were to be discussed, U.S. security guarantees for Ukraine and a proposed U.S.-Ukraine minerals deal. All right. Here's the details. President Trump's accusation towards President Zelensky. He makes these accusations. Vice President Vance remarks on perceived ingratitude and President Zelensky's defense and emphasis on Ukraine's need for reliable peace. I think what Zelensky was trying to say is Look, we've got to have something reliable, not just supposedly Putin saying, well, I won't do this or I won't do that because he's broken those previous agreements in the past. That's what Zelensky was trying to say. We can't trust Putin. We need something. But of course, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We can't say anything bad about Putin. Right? So, the immediate outcome was an abrupt termination of the meeting, cancellation of the joint press conference, and minerals deal signing. International reaction, European leaders reaffirm their support for Ukraine, and there is concern over US commitment and potential isolation of European allies. In other words, they could be isolated and be possibly in danger of Russia aggression, maybe Russia trying to take over even more territory. I think that's a reasonable concern. Now, if we just look at this purely from just a biblical theological perspective, from a biblical standpoint, this incident can be examined through the lens of leadership, humility, and the pursuit of peace. So if we look at it from a biblical perspective, And this is just, look, I'm reacting in real time here. So you gotta give me time to process this and think this even further through, okay? But I think we can look at it through that lens. Leadership, humility, and the pursuit of peace. So let's start with pride and humility. The Bible warns against pride and emphasizes the importance of humility. Proverbs 16, 18 states, Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall. Leaders are called to exercise humility, recognizing their role as servants to others. This is not about you show up here and you do this and you do this and you do this. It should be, hey guys, let's humbly work together for the good of, I don't know, all the people in Ukraine not being slaughtered. How about we try to remain, set aside our egos to try to work together to stop this. But the problem is, it seems that one part of the people in that room, everyone who was a part of the Trump administration is more, they don't want to offend Putin. They don't want to make Russia mad. They want to stay on Russia's good side. And they don't seem to be that willing or concerned for the Ukrainians. And so then If Zelensky—they immediately started attacking, you haven't said thank you enough. And then what was that whole nonsense? Oh, you said nice things about Biden and you went to a campaign rally for Biden. Well, why wouldn't someone who's fighting for the survival of his country not try to do everything they can to support the administration that was in power, who had been doing things to support them to try to keep his people from dying? But you're going to now hold that against him? I mean, What kind of pride and arrogance is that? Gratitude and ingratitude. Scripture encourages a spirit of thanksgiving. 1 Thessalonians 5.18 says to give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus. The confrontation over perceived ingratitude highlights the human tendency to seek acknowledgment, yet true service should be rendered selflessly. But I don't think it was about acknowledgment. I think they were like, you haven't even said thank you. You haven't even said thank you. Well, first of all, they haven't even agreed to anything. They haven't even signed anything. They haven't even gotten to the point there. Maybe after he signed it, then he would have said thank you. But Zelensky has said thank you a million times, a lot of different places. We could probably go find all the audio of all the times he has. But here's the thing. Are you going to be sitting there and you didn't even say anything about saying thank you until he said those negative things about Putin? Then you got upset. Then you, but are you, is it going to be some little like children? You didn't say thank you enough. You didn't say thank you enough. What kind of childishness is this? Is this the leadership the American people voted for was for people who act like schoolyard bullies who get upset because someone didn't say thank you enough to them. Was Zelensky supposed to walk into the room, fall on the floor and grovel at their feet and kiss the ring? Peacemaking. Jesus taught, blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God. The abrupt end to peace discussions serves as a reminder of the challenges in peacemaking and the necessity for perseverance, patience, and empathy in resolving conflicts. Now, the thing is, is what were they upset because, oh, we were offended. Well, let's worry about stopping a war. What's more important? We were offended because you... Get out! We're not going to have anything to do with you. Okay, well then I guess you can do that. Or, I don't know, you said you were going to bring this to an end in one day. It's been more than one day. Come on, show us your great ability to bring it to an end. In conclusion, this event, and I got more here I could go through, serves as a powerful reminder of the complexities inherent in international relations and the biblical call for leaders to embody humility, gratitude, and you would hope a steadfast commitment to peace, all right? So we could probably break it down a little bit more, and I am more than willing to acknowledge this. I'm going to get all the Putin supporters and all the Russian supporters and all those who hate Zelensky. They're going to start filling my email box. Go ahead, all you MAGA supporters, support Russia all you want. I'm more than willing. Is Zelensky perfect? No. Is Ukraine perfect? No. I don't know. This is a shocker. Is Trump perfect? No. Is United States of America perfect? No. Has Ukraine done things in their past that's probably wrong? Yes. Has America done a list of things wrong in the past? Yes. The issue is, who invaded whom? Russia invaded Ukraine. And typically, for the most part, we have understood Russia to be an existential threat to the United States of America. But something changed. Something changed. What changed? Well, this, I needed AI to help me structure this. There has been a shift among conservative politicians and many Christians towards supporting Russia and Vladimir Putin. And this can only be attributed to maybe a combination of political, ideological, and cultural factors. It can only be attributed to basically those three things. political, ideological, and cultural. I'll go with that. I'll break it down that way. Political, ideological, and cultural. Now, you may have seen this among your Christian friends, Christian family members, who all of a sudden seem to be like, pro-Russia, pro-Russia, pro-Putin. Down with Zelensky! Let's go Russia! We're in Team Russia! Remember when it was like, you know, don't you remember the Rocky movie? Okay, the Russians versus America, right? Don't you remember that? Don't you remember? I mean, I don't know. Some of you are too young. Maybe this is the younger generation. I don't know what is happening here. But there's been a shift. It's political, it's ideological. Let's look at the cultural and social conservatism. Many conservatives and some Christians perceive Russia as a defender of traditional values. particularly in opposition to what they see the increasing secularization and liberalization of the West. So what some Christians like, oh, what we, our enemy is secularism. Our enemy is liberalism. See, Christians stopped fighting a spiritual war a long time ago. Oh, they still like to describe it as a spiritual war. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. What they want is conservative. We want to get rid of liberalism. We want conservativism. They replaced the gospel, they replace Christianity with conservatism. They try to disguise it as Christian conservatism, but it's a political conservatism. It's not a spiritual conservatism. So they see Russia, Russia hates secularism. Russia hates being woke. Russia hates liberal. Oh, so we're going to support Russia. What in the world is going on here, right? Putin has positioned himself as a proponent of Christian orthodoxy. That's how he's at least positioned himself. And I guess that's all you have to do. Trump did the same thing. See, there's many Christians, if the leader just gives some kind of lip service, just pretends some allegiance to Christianity, Christians are like, there's our team. There's our guy. We don't care. We don't care if it even truly even is Christianity. They say they're on our side. We don't care that we will sell our soul for anyone who we think is a political ally. So Putin has positioned himself as a proponent of Christian orthodoxy, traditional family values, and opposition to progressive social movements. Because there's nothing that's more traditional family value than invading another country and killing people to take their land. But okay, that's, you know, what do I know? opposition to progressive social movements such as LGBTQ rights, which resonate with certain conservative groups like, hey, he hates LGBTQ like we do. All right, we're pro-Russia because they hate LGBTQ. Well, that's the way we do things now in Christianity? Because our issue shouldn't be LGBTQ. It should not be it. Our issue should be there is sin and the gospel calls people to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ and they're saved by an imputed righteousness. It should be that, right? But no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Let's side with them. Oh, look at them. Well, I mean, at that point, I guess we join the Muslims because most Muslim countries are against LGBTQ, right? So let's join the Muslims as well, right? In fact, let's just forgo Christianity and let's just have a conservative utopia where we have conservative values. And I guess many Christians will be happy. They don't really care about Christ, him crucified in the gospel. They just care about conservativism. Oh, I hate wokeism. hear it in sermons all the time. This woke stuff, this woke stuff, this woke stuff, this transgender stuff, this LGBTQ stuff. And that's all they ever want to argue about. No. How about, I don't know. I don't care if they're woke. I don't care if they're LGBTQ. I don't care if they're transgender. They're human beings created in the image of God. They have a sinful nature. And whether it's that sin or it's all the sins of a heterosexual white male, it doesn't matter who they are, it's still sin and they still need the same gospel. How about we worry about the gospel and discipleship and not this political nonsense where we get into these culture wars, fighting political battles, and we do so in the name of Jesus Christ and therefore we so connect Christ to these political battles that the church becomes a political institution instead of a spiritual institution. And at that point, shut the doors down, everyone goes home and nobody go back to church because it's a joke. Yeah, I'm being calm. So this cultural and social conservatism trumps, no pun intended, well, true biblical Christianity. there was this distrust of globalism and Western institutions. Some of the right view global institutions such as the United Nations, European Union, and NATO as overreaching entities that undermine national sovereignty. And you'll have Christian... I mean, this goes all the way back to the 90s when I was listening to the Prophecy Club. which was a crazy conspiratorial Christian program. And it was like the United Nations, NATO, it's this and it's this, and they're going to take away our rights. And we're all going to be marked with the beast. And then this is the way Antichrist is going to come to the power. We're going to receive the mark of the beast, if I can speak correctly. And so Christians were already kind of being shaped to have this distrust for those institutions. Well, guess what? Russia opposes those institutions. Russia aligns with a broader conservative skepticism towards globalist policies, which they see as eroding national identity and self-determination. Well, Russia's against those institutions. We're against those institutions. Hey, we're on Russia's side. Wait, Russia hates liberalism and woke-ism and hates, oh, so we'll be on Russia's side. Number three, opposition to U.S. foreign policy in the deep state narrative. Many conservatives have become increasingly critical of U.S. foreign intervention, particularly after wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which were seen as failures. Now, I got no problem. They were failures and they were a disaster, and I completely agree. Some believe U.S. intelligence agencies and establishment politicians exaggerate threats from Russia to maintain military-industrial interests and control public opinion. So I'd say, hey, when the intelligence community says Russia is the threat, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We don't believe that. They're a part of the deep state. I'm going to believe this guy on YouTube, or I'm going to believe Alex Jones, or I'm going to believe Tucker Carlson, or I'm going to believe whatever, while rushing talking points I can hear because Russia's the good guys. We're just, we just try to, we try to make them the bad guys, but they're really the good guys. The narrative that the deep state opposes Russia fuels skepticism, leading some to sympathize with Russia as a counterbalance. So the deep state, they try to make Russia look bad, right? So the deep state hates Russia, but the deep state is bad. So we can't say Russia is bad because that would put us in line with the deep state, whatever the deep state is. And so we have to be on Russia's side. Now, these are people who get into the weeds of politics and conspiracy theories. And again, they've abandoned anything that even remotely looks like Christianity. Number four, another reason this shift has occurred, Putin's anti-woke and anti-liberal stance. Russia has consistently criticized the West for its embrace of progressive ideologies related to gender, race, and identity politics. Many conservatives see this as a refreshing contrast to what they perceive as a Western decadence, ideological censorship, and cultural decline. Hey, Putin hates these kinds of things. We hate these kinds of things. We'll be on Putin's side. Who cares if he kills his opponents, kills journalists? Who cares? Who cares anything? It doesn't matter. We're on his side. A fifth reason this shift has taken place. Media influence and conservative figures. Certain influential media personalities and politicians such as Tucker Carlson have amplified narratives that frame Russia favorably. Fox News, many other conservative media. These figures often highlight perceived corruption and moral decay in the U.S. government while contrasting with Russia's supposedly stronger, nationalistic, are you ready for this? Christian values. Russia has Christian values. America is decadent. We need to support Russia. I guess if we support Russia so much, maybe we just invite them to take over our entire country and then we can sing the Russian national anthem and we can have the Russian flag flying over the White House. Will that make all of you Christians happy? A sixth reason this shift has taken place, Ukraine war skepticism. Some conservative question the level of U.S. financial and military aid to Ukraine, arguing that it diverts resources from domestic issues. Now, I got no problem. How much money should we give to the Ukrainian government to try to fight this war? How much is it worth? How much is it worth? If we spend billions or trillions, what is it worth? What do we get from it? I can understand that. You can have that as a reasonable and rational discussion. Some may say, well, I think it forces Russia not to go any further. They're stopped. They can't take over because if they take over Ukraine, it can make other countries vulnerable, which could only lead to greater conflict. So either we spend the money now or we spend the money later. Let's spend the money now and not let Russia advance. You can make arguments both ways. I got no problem understanding it. It's lots of money. I understand that. How much money do we have? What can we do? I understand. It's difficult. Now we could also say, well, we may not want to spend the money, but that doesn't make Putin the good guy for invading, right? We wouldn't be spending the money if Putin would, I don't know, not invaded. So maybe that's the issue, right? I don't know. A narrative exists that Ukraine is corrupt and that continued support risks escalating conflict with Russia, which is seen as a nuclear armed power. You hear this on Alex Jones all the time. Ukraine is corrupt. And if we continue to support them, this is going to turn into World War III. You even heard Trump mention the same thing in that press conference. We're all going to die. We've got to stop World War III. And how do we stop World War III? Let Russia have Ukraine. The argument that Ukraine's government is not a perfect democracy and has had issues with corruption has been used to justify skepticism. Okay, well, guess what? Has our country always been perfect? Yeah, I mean, whatever. Now, theological and biblical considerations. From a biblical and theological standpoint, this shift presents several concerns. There's no way to get around it. The shift has happened. It's happened inside the church, it's happened outside the church. There's no way to get around this. And so what led to this shift? Let me go through those again. Number one, a cultural and social conservatism is perceived that Russia has it, Ukraine don't, so Russia's the good guys, I guess. All right, distrust of globalism and Western institutions. Hey, these institutions, Russia hates them. And well, we hate them. So we're going to join Russia. Opposition to US foreign policy and the deep state narrative. Hey, we don't like how we've done foreign policy. Let's support Russia. The deep state is against Russia. So we're for Russia. Putin's anti-woke and anti-liberal stance. Well, Putin hates woke-ism. Putin hates liberals. Well, we're pro-Russia then. Number five, media influence and conservative figures continue to give you Russian talking points and you buy into it. So then you're pro-Russia for some weird reason. Six, Ukraine war skepticism that leads to it. Those are the six reasons this shift has occurred. Now, if we look at it from a biblical and theological perspective, Selective morality and politics, aligning with Russia purely based on cultural conservatism, can overlook serious moral and ethical issues including political oppression, human rights violations, and aggressive warfare—for example, Russia's actions in Ukraine. Scripture warns against compromising righteousness for political expediency. We should not compromise righteousness for political expediency. And I'm thinking, hang on, I don't want to give you the reference until I look at it. I don't know if it's going to be the one I want. Hang on here. Righteousness exalteth a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people." Well, hey, just because someone appears to have some, oh look, there's some conservatism there, well then do we just go with them because their morality aligns with our morality on these issues, but then we overlook all of the other things? I don't know. It's very selective morality. And we do that. You know, when President Clinton got busted for what happened in the Oval Office and his affair, oh, character matters. He's unfit for the White House. This is ungodly. Sin is a reproach to this nation. Get rid of him. But then Trump comes along. Well, we're not electing a pope. We're not electing a pastor. And then we make every excuse for every immoral thing the man does. because, hey, that's okay. That's because we stop looking at things from a biblical perspective when we look at things from what kind of a perspective? From a political ideology and a cultural ideology, because Christianity has abandoned Christianity for political expediency. Nationalism versus Christian allegiance. While nations have distinct identities, A Christian's primary allegiance should be to Christ and the kingdom of God rather than any geopolitical entity. Over-identification with any political power risks idolatry. Let me say that again. Over-identification with any political power can risk idolatry. You don't want to be known as a Republican. You don't want to be known as MAGA. You don't even want to be known as an American. You're supposed to be known for your identity and Christ and that you are a Christian. So this nationalism versus Christian allegiance. Number three, peacemaking and justice. The Bible calls believers to seek peace and justice. While skepticism towards U.S. foreign policy is valid, excusing aggression or oppression for ideological reasons contradicts biblical ethics. discerning propaganda. Both the West and Russia narratives include propaganda. Christians should seek truth, test all claims, and avoid being swayed by political rhetoric. Stop falling for talking points. Stop falling for propaganda. Stop falling for these narratives that are handed to you. While some conservatives and Christians view Russia's stance on social issues favorably. A biblical perspective requires careful discernment, ensuring that geopolitical alignment do not come at the expense of justice, truth, and the love for all people. Now, I don't know what happens. I don't know what the fallout here is. I don't know. Right now, I'm getting so many notifications from my podcast apps are literally blowing up right now because of all of the... Everyone is talking about this right now. If we look at... Thank God, I'm gonna look here. I'm just looking at a number of sources. Well, just another breaking news, the Pope has been put on a ventilator. So that situation, okay. Oh yeah, here we go. So Oval Office shouting match, Trump blast disrespectful Zelensky, peace talks collapse, the Kremlin celebrates. Do you need any more than that? The Kremlin celebrates. All right, I mean, come on, what else more do you need here? Okay, hang on, that just did not go to the news article that I wanted. Hang on, here we go. Vladimir Putin's Kremlin celebrates as Donald Trump ends Ukraine talks. The much-anticipated meeting between Donald Trump and Vladimir Zelensky ended in a shouting match. Vladimir Putin's close ally and former Russian president celebrated the dissent and the chaos of a meeting between Ukraine and U.S. presidents at the White House today. They, well, there we go. They refer to him as the insolent pig finally got a proper slap down in the Oval Office. All right. Donald Trump is right. So his insult came after President Donald Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance berated Ukraine's leader in an extraordinary meeting at the White House. All right. You see here. Yeah, there's a whole bunch going on here. All right. So but the Kremlin is celebrating it. Yeah. And I guess Christians will. And I've already seen on a numerous news articles, the comments, the pro-Trump comments. I mean, I looked on Truth Social for crying out loud. Trump is right. Trump is right. Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump. He's basically God. He can't do anything wrong. Don't dare criticize him. Putin is right. I guess the new Trinity is Trump, Putin, and J.D. Vance. There's the new Trinity. Don't dare criticize it as a Christian. I don't—man, this politicizing of American Christianity has got to stop. Again, to me, this is what—I'll say this again. If I was an atheist, if I was an agnostic, But I was socially conservative, right? I was socially conservative for whatever reason, but I'm an atheist and agnostic. I believe in conservativism, maybe when it relates to certain social matters, maybe foreign policy, maybe economics. Well, then if I was an atheist and agnostic, I would be so pro-Trump and pro-MAGA. Because who cares about right, wrong, character, godliness? Who cares about love for others, empathy, sympathy? Who cares about compassion? Who cares about anything? Just go in, call people names, mock people, say outrageous things, lie, lie, lie. You can say a thousand lies. There's no ethics in what you do. Just get me what I want. I want this put in place, and I want put this in place, and I don't care. I don't care if you stand in front of people and say, they're eating the cats, they're eating the dogs. Of course, when he got elected, he never mentioned the eating of the cats and the dogs. Did he send anyone to Ohio to stop the eating of the cats and the dogs? Did he care about the cats and the dogs? No, he didn't do a stinking thing because he is a liar. He says crazy stuff. The MAGA people eat the stuff up, and they don't care if he's a bully, they don't care if he's rude, they don't care if he's a liar. Well, if I was an atheist and an agnostic, I'd be, go for it, go for it, tear them up, call them names, do this, do that, just give me what I want. I want this conservative utopia to be established in the image of Trump, and I'm all for it. Okay, great, I'll storm the Capitol building, I'll do whatever, great. Everyone do what is right in their own eyes for the ultimate win of Trump so that Trump can then implement all of his policies. Great. That's wonderful. But if you are a Christian, you would think there would be some very conflicting problems you would have here. Lying, false witness, dehumanizing and making people the enemy. Oh, I mean, just we could go on and on and on and on. supporting a known dictator by the name of Putin over the Ukrainian people. Now, I said at the beginning of this year that the one thing I did not want to do is turn this into a news podcast. I don't, I'm not, I don't want to go that talking about news, talking about current events. I don't want to do that. And I've done pretty good. I've tried to stay out of it for the most part. If people are MAGA, they can be MAGA. I'm not going to get involved. I stay out of it. I try to let people do their own thing politically because I'm, no, no, this is not my, this is not my world. I am just passing through. I'm a stranger here. I'm against the whole political thing. Christianity should not be associated with politics. We are not, we are separate from, we are transcendent of, we want people who are MAGA. We want people who are liberal. We want everyone to come to Christ, believe in Christ, learn Christ, follow Christ. We don't care about national identity, racial identity, political identity. We care about coming to be following Christ. So I've tried to stay out of it, but sometimes you just gotta speak up. I try to stay out of it, but so many times Trump will say something and I'm like, this is, it can't get worse. And then today happens, and today happens. And then immediately I've already seen Trump is right. Trump is right. Trump is right. Zelensky's a piece of trash. Or an insolent pig or whatever Russian talking points you're following. Now, I want Russians to come to Christ. I want Ukrainians to come to Christ. I want those in Gaza to come to Christ. I want those in Israel to come to Christ. I want people to be treated with dignity and respect as human beings created in the image of God and not be reduced to dehumanizing them and only identifying them by their race, gender, national identity, or their political affiliation. Now I tried to break that down as clear as I could. So what did we look at? I'm going to do the whole United States Air Force speech. I'm going to tell you what we talked about. I kind of gave you – we listened to an audio clip of what happened in the White House today, which was insane. We talked about the dramatic and unexpected turn of events that happened in a meeting at the White House between US President Donald Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, all right? and it erupted into a heated confrontation. We covered that. I gave you a summary of the events. I gave you an outline of the entire incident. I looked at it from a biblical and theological perspective. Then I talked about this cultural shift within Republicanism, obviously within MAGA, because I don't believe MAGA and Republicans are the same. The Republican party I knew is not MAGA. MAGA is not Republican. MAGA is not even conservative. It's its own unique cult. So we talked about this shift within the MAGA movement and within many Christians to support and be pro-Russia and pro-Putin. We talked about the reasons, cultural and social conservatism, a distrust in globalism and Western institutions, opposition to US foreign policy and the deep state narrative, Putin's anti-woke and anti-liberal stance. media influence and conservative figures, and Ukrainian war skepticism. We talked about theological and biblical considerations, selective morality and politics, nationalism versus Christian allegiance, peacemaking and justice, and discerning propaganda. That's what we've talked about. I hope this has been somewhat beneficial. Please, please, please, please, please remember this was all happening in real time. I'm responding to it as close to the events as possible. So, There may not have been nuance, there may not have been getting every piece of the puzzle right, but the puzzle at least needed, I needed at least throw all the pieces of the puzzle on the table and discuss it. You can say you have a bias and I will admit it, I have a bias. I am not pro-Putin, I am not pro-Russia. And I believe that what they did in invading Ukraine was wrong. And I believe the Ukrainian people should be supported. Whether I agree with the Ukrainian government in every issue is not the point. I think the aggression in Ukraine needs to stop. The invasion needs to stop. Russia needs to pull back, leave Ukrainian soil, and then go from there. And if you have a grievance against Ukraine, then let's see how we can work that out. I cannot believe that Zelensky ends up in this press conference and basically gets bullied by the President of the United States and J.D. Vance, the Vice President of the United States. I believe it's disgusting and vile. I cannot believe that. And I cannot believe that Trump basically has already... Now, I think he came back and tried to backtrack a little bit, but he called Zelensky the dictator, won't call Putin a dictator, won't say anything negative about Putin. The whole thing is disgusting, the whole thing is sickening, the whole thing is vile, and I can't stand it, right? I can't stand it. Now, there is a part of me, I'm just going to be very honest with you, okay? Inside of me, I'm just going to be honest. I don't want to talk to a Trump supporter. I don't want to get near a Trump supporter. I don't have any because I don't know how you support the things he has done and the things he has said. We're just going to take Gaza. We're just going to take it. We're just going to take it. We're going to move the people. The things that have happened here during this administration are insane. But that would be wrong of me. What I need to do is see a Trump supporter and see a non-Trump supporter, and I should not identify them by their political affiliation, their political allegiance. What I should see is human beings who are sinners just like me. They have their flaws, and just like I have far, I probably have far more than they do. I know I do, right? But we all need Christ. And that in Christ, we see Christ. we see a Christian, we perceive them based off what they are positionally, a new creature in Christ, all things are passed away, all things are new, and we don't allow those political differences get there. Now, where I will get all ticked off is when I hear Trump supporters say things that are just fraudulent, factually in error. They just make up facts and they recite lies Trump has said. And when you try to correct it, that's fake news. That's fake news. Because the only thing that's real news is what agrees with their majestic leader, Trump. Now that's when I get mad. Now that's not me getting mad at the Trump supporter. That's me getting mad at the lies and that type of thing. And the same thing for the non-Trump supporter. The same thing. So what I have to do is not allow my emotions to get out of whack here because my emotions are not good right now. They're not. I can't believe what happened. I just can't believe this occurred. I just cannot believe we witnessed this. How did they say it at the beginning here? Let me go back and play the very beginning of this. You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War III. You're gambling with World War III. And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country, that's backed you far more than a lot of people said they should have. Have you said thank you once? Hello and welcome to Ukraine the Latest. We've only recorded an emergency podcast once before when Prigozhin launched his mutiny. But we have just watched one of the most extraordinary press conferences in modern political history. One of the most extraordinary press conferences in modern political history. So. May God have mercy on all of us. Thank you for listening.