All right here we go so we'll start this off last first question this first question is kind of a softball question so I'll start on this side with Kessler and then we'll work our way across and you guys can chime in. So the first question is how do we know if we are saved by Christ? I think that's such an easy question. Maybe if you can add in there by like the difference between synergism and monergism, right? Like how do we see that? Cause we have debates with people that believe in free will and how would you explain that in a way that you're saved and that you are safe in that salvation through those? I guess I'll deal with the modernism first. I would say that to our brothers and sisters that believe in kind of the free will and the synergistic model, I would say that that's kind of a flawed system. God's word does not, God's word puts all of the work for your salvation on Christ and the Spirit, on God himself, not on us. The problem that I think our synergistic brothers and sisters have is that they struggle to recognize that there are two perspectives, that there's a perspective that ours from humanity where I feel like I am making my choices of my own volition, and I am. They extrapolate, well, because I feel like I'm doing that, that God doesn't have a hand in that, and that if he did, then I'm a robot and I'm not making free choices or I'm not making my choices. But I would say that that's not true because in reality, God is decreeing all things as first cause and we are operating and making our choices on our own within that, even as God has decreed those things, we're still choosing, we're not being forced into that. So with that said, one of the, actually one of the charges that we see a lot from our synergistic or our free will brothers and sisters is that they will ask about, well, how do you know you're saved then? Like if, how do you know you're elect? Well, my response is always like, do you love Christ? Do you love God? Do you feel sorrow towards your sin? When you sin, do you realize I shouldn't have done that? That's wrong. The fact that even in that time when you're asking, well, I can't be saved because I keep sinning and I'm not supposed to. I would say even in that, that is a positive sign that you're probably saved because the person who doesn't care about holiness, the person that does not long to be in God's word, the person that does not want to be with God's people, probably isn't saved because they would demonstrate that for you. The evidence that you're saved often to me is, well, what do you do with your time? What do you do? Like, do you care about God's Word? Are you reading it? Are you praying to Him? Are you seeking forgiveness when you sin? If you're doing those things, you can rest assured that you're saved. You can have confidence. You're not earning it. You're not maintaining it. You're resting on what Christ has done for you. So at that point you guys interject wherever you want to. I had a pastor who, I can understand the question, how do I know if I'm saved? So what he would do is he would go over to your house and he would lead you in that quote, the sinner's prayer. Then he would give you this little card, a little yellow laminated card he called the ticket to heaven. So he would base it all on You prayed the prayer so kind of that synergistic type thing like your hope then your assurance is in oh I prayed the prayer so then that's how I know that I'm safe because I did that. It turns into like this magical incantation. It's not a good thing I think. I would just try to keep this simple, kind of along the lines of what Steve was saying. Jesus says, my sheep hear my voice, I know them and they follow me and I shall never cast them out. And so, what does it mean to hear Jesus' voice? Well, we don't hear an audible voice of the Lord Jesus speaking to us, but do we believe? Do we believe that we are sinners? Do we believe that he is the son who came to offer himself up and save us? Do we believe those things? And if we do, then we know that we're saved because only and then if you take it to get more of the theological education that you understand then that that's the case that's because God has done that inner work of regeneration upon you he's written His law on your heart and stamped it on your mind so that you know the Lord, those new covenant promises that are in Hebrews 8 that Jeremiah prophesies about. But it's just as simple as do you hear the voice of the Lord Jesus? Do you agree that you're a sinner and you know that you're at loss and that He's your only help for that? That's to me how I look at it. Real quick, so at the end you hear Perseverance of the Saints and you hear Once Saved Always Saved and if you're consistent in monergism you'll be safe in that Perseverance of the Saints. If you're more on the synergistic side that even leads to you can lose your salvation. So those are two different views of, I would say inconsistent views of once saved always saved if it's free will as compared to a consistent view would be I can lose my salvation. Almost every American Evangelical Christian is a one-point Calvinist at least, because very few people hold to this idea that you can lose your salvation, although it is, I think, consistent with the synergistic point of view, because if you got yourself into the covenant, then you probably have the power to get yourself out of the covenant. But for those of us who see salvation as being entirely the work of the Lord, then there is a greater and mightier sense of security in the Lord, because he is not only the one who saves, but he's the one that preserves and carries you through to the end. And just to add what these guys said, I just say amen to what they said. I would also say is there a desire in you to want to draw near to the Lord? And so when you think about the difference between a person who is in the covenant of Adam and has lost their sins or is in the covenant of Christ, the difference between those two people, the difference between the hard heart that's made of stone and the heart of flesh is really do you have a desire to be near to the Lord? And so I think there are people that kind of jump into the religious aspect of Christianity and they never really seek Christ. They like being around the church. They like being around other believers. They like the benefits of ethical living and staying out of trouble, but do they really love the Lord? And when we talk about loving the Lord, it's not about do you love the Lord perfectly or you have this magical, special love of the Lord. It's do you desire him or do you want to be near to him? And if there is that desire to be near to the Lord, then the chances that you are saved in Christ are very high. a good confidence that you are with the Lord and that He has made you change the way that you look at who He is and what He cares about. I'll say too, the idea of once saved, always saved, I don't really love that. It's like OSAS is what we call it for short, right? O-S-A-S. And the idea behind that usually comes from those people who kind of view free will as the defining element in one's salvation. So they say, well, once you've been saved, you're always saved. It doesn't matter what happens. Perseverance is a better way of talking about that because your salvation is caught up in the fact that you're chosen in Christ from before the foundation of the world, that you're part of this love gift. that the Father has chosen to give to the Son, whom the Son goes to through the cross to obtain and win. And so the idea of, it's true that when you are saved, yes, you can't lose that salvation, but that's not because of some free will decision that you made, it's because of God's sovereignty left in choice. It's Phineas. I mean, when you think of once saved, always saved, it flows out of the Phineas. Charles Phineas was an evangelist who believed that if you were saved in the morning, you could be lost at lunchtime. And so the sad part about that is, like Paul said, the one thing always saved is, you know, I prayed the prayer back in 1979. But I've lived like the devil. I've lived with my girlfriend. I've, you know, been a crank dealer my whole life. But I love Jesus, you know, and I think like Nick was saying, too, and Steve, too, the I would get more of the scriptural approach, 1 John 4, 19, we love him because he first loved us, right? How do we know he passed from death into life? Well, we love the brethren. Is there affections that you have like Nick was saying? Are you seeking the Lord? Is there a desire to love God's people? You can't hate the body and say you love Christ. The body is Christ. And so I think there's also that one, There's these things that I've written to you that you may know that you have eternal life, right? I think the Lord wants us to have assurance. I'm assuming, obviously, my brother Steven, too, when he said that if you believe these things, you're probably saved. I think if you believe these things, yeah, you are saved. You know, that we know that we trust in the Son of God. He's given us an understanding that faith is a gift and you can't lose your salvation because it is God who has been at work to regenerate you, to call you, to predestine you, to grant you faith, to grant you repentance, to grant you the new work of the Spirit that causes you to come to life so that you can receive Christ. when they asked, you know, what must we do? We may do the work of God. Jesus said in John 629, this is the work of God, that you believe in him and you sin. So, Lorraine Bodnar said it the best, a man is not saved, I wrote and put it in my notes, a man is not saved because he believes in Christ, he believes in Christ because he's saved. They just get from God, so I would agree with all that. And just real quick on that one, I just, because I know we struggle, people struggle with their faith, they struggle with sin, they struggle with things in their daily life that can pull them away from that, even if, right, we're confident, but our confidence can wane, and you and I even talked about that today. What was that you said to me? Help me with my belief through my unbelief. Mark 9, 24. Yeah. When the man says, I believe, Lord, help my unbelief. So in the same breath, he acknowledges both his belief in Christ and how weak his faith is, that he needs more faith from the Lord. So we should be constantly turning to the Lord for the help with our faith that we need. Because you're going to go through times, Christian, when you're going to wonder. I mean, that's just the reality of it. Ordained pastors wonder sometimes whether they're really walking in the light. So don't be so discouraged into thinking, well, if I don't know for certain, then I must be lost. No, the enemy wants you to be deceived and there's spiritual warfare in the lives that we live where the enemy is trying to get you to buy into the lies of the world. So that's part of the reason why doctrine is so important. The more we seek to know the word and the more we dive into good doctrine, I think it fortifies the foundation of our understanding. And we can be shaken a lot less easily if we know the truth. That's why it's called faith, right? And one of the struggles to second what Nick was saying, on the road to take my sons to school, we're memorizing John. And when Jesus said, Thomas, because you have seen me, you have believed, right? But even Thomas needed regeneration. We walk by faith, not by sight, right? And so he said, blessed are those who don't see and believe. And so as I looked over at my son, I said, did you hear that, son? And he said, yeah. I said, that's us. We need to be reminded of that, because like Nick was saying, it's going to be dark. I think Sproul used to call him the dark soul of the night. I mean, you're going to battle with sin and lose sometimes. And then you're going to wonder, am I really Believing this or am I believing a lie? Am I deceiving myself, right? Then you have to go back to the gospel. And if you don't go back to the gospel, if you don't go back to Christ, if you don't go back to the scriptures, then, you know, the enemy is gonna play tic-tac-toe with your mind. Does anybody have any questions? You guys good? Good, good. Rex? OK. For this question, how do we balance Matthew 7, 21 through 23? Many were stating that they, Lord, Lord, did I not do this and that? And people turned to them and say, depart from me. You can practice lawlessness, but with what Steve said, it depends on kind of what we do. But then if we're doing things, and we're still lawless, I would say that I was in the church from 04 to 2013, serving seven days a week at home and the elderly, and it wasn't safe until I We got kicked out of that church because of a restraining order. When I ended up at Bethany Baptist Church and under expository preaching, I actually did get converted. I had no idea about it. What are those people relying on that are saying? The worst. Right. But did you notice what Jesus said? Apart from me, you practice antinomian, right? So it's not that legalism and antinomianism are the same, but they come from the same coin, right? When you flip it around, you're still coming to God in a, bless me, accept me because of what I'm doing. And God will have none of that. He said that throughout the scriptures, right? Yeah. I would say just to, for the, for the, the review that Jesus gives in the Sermon on the Mount there at the end, there's a, there's quite a big difference in looking to your works as the means of your salvation. rather than looking to your works as fruit of your salvation. Those people that he was talking to were looking at their works as like, well, I know I'm saved because look, here, I'm doing these good things. So like I'm earning my salvation. But we want to be careful to that. So if a believer is lacking in good works, if they're struggling, like, yeah, with a dark night of the soul, and they're, they're giving into sin, they should and will lack assurance. Our works are when we are obedient and we're walking in the light, that does fuel our assurance. It's not the primary place of assurance. Our primary place of assurance is always in the work of Christ, which was unchanging, which was perfect, which was done on our behalf. But, when a believer is wallowing in their sin, they will lack assurance for that. And so, if you look at what some of the catechisms say, specifically the Heidelberg, where it's talking about how do we, you know, the free grace that comes to us, and won't that make us lawlessness, won't that make us an antinomian? And the answer the Church has confessed for the longest time is no. That if you have the Spirit, you will have good works. You'll do good works because the Spirit is working in you. And those good works include repentance and seeking the Lord. For those people that are trying to base their justification and their salvation on the fact that, hey look at all the good things I've done. Therefore. God, those are rubbish. Those are all dead works. Yeah, that's how they were coming to him, right? External religious works profit nothing. We talked about that on last Wednesday. I tied my mint. I tied this. I did these fasting days. They were done not as an outflowing of what God had done inside of them, but as a box checking, as a scorecard. I am acceptable to you because look at all these things I've done. Not evangelical obedience. What you want as a believer, you have what we would call evangelical obedience. Obedience to God's law that flows out of and is for gratitude for what God has done in you. So there will be works that are accompanied in everyone's salvation. For assurance, right? That attribute to our assurance as a secondary means. 2 Peter 1.10, wherefore, brethren, giving the diligence to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you shall never fall. Right? It goes on. You preach this at Peter, right? All those things that are evidences of salvation, I think Spurgeon wrote a book about it, right? Things that accompany salvation. I think those things are what we are to look to as fruit, like Paul was saying, because when you're walking uprightly, when you're abiding in the vine, then you won't fall in these areas because you truly have assurance that, yeah, I am looking to Christ, you know? I think that's what it comes down to. Okay, question two, Pastor Paul, this one for you. I want the pastors to provide a Romans Road type of prescription on clear covenantal presentation of the opposite of dispensational view on eschatology and the church in Israel that I can use when I'm hanging out with other believers who have a different view, a clear systemic scriptural coalition to counter the rapture conversation. So using the Romans road, right? Given the gospel, give the difference between covenantalism and dispensationalism with eschatology of the church in Israel in view and the rapture, the difference between the two. Okay. Well, I'm not like super clear on the dispensational view because I don't have like, cause there's a lot of differences in it where they say like there's seven dispensation stuff. But if we're to think of a clear path in scripture that talks about covenant theology, I think that we could do that. It may be better to start here. I don't know if you've heard this phrase before, but it's that eschatology precedes soteriology. And that was championed really by a guy named Gerhardus Vos, who was a Princeton theologian in the 20th century. But the point is that the last things come first, eschatology, Christi, soteriology. And so what we understand, as far as covenant theology says, is that there is this covenant of redemption between the father, the son, and then the spirit, I would say, too, to redeem and elect. So we might think of Zechariah 6, 13, where he talks about this council of peace shall be between them, which is, in Latin, the pactum salutis, the covenant of redemption. And you see that played out in scripture at texts like in Ephesians 1, 4, where people were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world. And then you think of maybe all those texts that are Like in the Gospels, or for example, in John 19, where Jesus is on the cross and he says, it is finished. Well, what's finished, right? It's this pact, this agreement that the Godhead had to redeem and save. Or all of those texts in the Gospels where Jesus says, I have not come to do my will, but the will of my Father who has sent me. There's this mission that he's on. And so you think of Romans 5. And there you, where you have that there's Adam and Christ are compared and there's those who are in Adam and those who are in Christ. It's speaking about this covenant of redemption. And then we talk about something called the covenant of works and covenant of grace. Well, the covenant of works is Adam's covenant that he's in with God in the garden. And there it's interesting because you don't have any, you don't have the word covenant. Covenant doesn't show up until Genesis 9 with the Noahic covenant. And I think it's beref in the Hebrew. But the language is there, where God tells Adam, you may eat of every tree in the garden except for this one. If you eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall surely die. And then we know, of course, that he did die, and sin comes into the world. And you look like in Hosea, it talks about, what's the passage in Hosea where it says that in the covenant with Adam, that Israel, or that God's people fell, or Isaiah 24, where it talks about the everlasting covenant and the effects go across the whole earth, Isaiah 24, five through six. And so you have this idea of the covenant of works, that people who are in Adam die, but then the covenant of grace, the new covenant, Romans five again, all who are in Christ live. And so you come to the new covenant promises, and again, Hebrews eight, Jeremiah 31, where where you have the spirit causing dead rebellious sinners to be made alive in Christ. And so if we're thinking like as far as this covenant, covenantal framework. I mean, those are kind of places that I would look to in that. But again, it's hard for me to place that over against and contrast dispensationalism, because I don't know what their seven dispensations are. I mean, they kind of look at them as the covenants. And so we're thinking eschatology. Well, what's the eschatology is the plan at the end. But that's what's setting everything into play, that God's decree, that he has decreed everything to happen, is happening because of the plan to redeem a people for his son. And so we think of like, I mean, the rapture, there's different thoughts on that. You know, that's not going to be a secret rapture. I think even most dispensationalists kind of are there now as well too. But I mean, are we going to be caught up? is the idea of 1 Corinthians 15 where the dead shall be raised first and we still remain, we'll follow after them when Christ comes again on the second advent on the parousia. I don't know if I'm answering the question, because the question's kind of long and convoluted. Sort of. Well, it's, it's, it's, so I think the thing it would be specifically is, so I think in dispensationalism, they see the church and, and, and Israel as two separate things, right? With an ending, like you're go, you're teaching on that now, with at the end, there's going to be a rapture of the Jews in the end, right? So God's going to deal with them in the end times, right? that as compared to covenant theology, it's just one group of people. I think that's actually easier to speak to. If you're looking for a set of scriptures to go to to really help somebody who thinks of Israel and the church as being two distinct people, I think there's a multitude of places you can go that can really help somebody to see that that's not congruent with the New Testament. So one of course would be Romans 11 that we're in right now. If we're talking about the church as being a tree that shares its root system, its heritage, branches have been grafted in physically to become a part of the tree. And it really is difficult then to make sense of this idea that God has two covenant people, that he's got the church and he's got Israel. Obviously they're one people. And this idea of oneness is so very important to the Lord that before he goes to the cross in John 17, as he's praying for the church before he goes and makes that final march, What is he praying for? That they may be one as you and I, Father, are one. So it doesn't make sense then that God would send his son to die for a fractured church, to die for a church that were two separate people that were both beloved of God, but in really different and distinct ways. And so I think also Ephesians chapter two is another great place. So Romans 11, you got John 17, and then Ephesians chapter two. Let me just read a little bit out of Ephesians 2 for you, because this just really digs into that whole idea that those who were not a people are now the people of God and have been fully grafted into the church. It says in verse 11 of chapter 2, Therefore, remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called the uncircumcision by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by the hand, remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise." Again, covenants. He has this covenantal language that he goes back to over and over again. Having no hope and without God in the world. I mean, that's as definitive as it gets. You were not the chosen people of God. You were way far away from the Lord God. You didn't have the law, you didn't have the covenants. And then it says, but now in Christ Jesus, you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ, for he himself is our peace. who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances that he might create in himself, how many new men? One new man in place of the two, so making peace and might reconcile us both in God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. And he came and preached peace to you who are far off and peace to those who are near. for through Him, we both have access in one Spirit to the Father." And I could go on, it says even more, but I think you're getting the idea here. So if somebody is really stuck on this idea that, well, that God loves the church, but He loves Israel in a special and you know, different way, and he's really just, the church is a vehicle to get him to this redemption of Israel. Then I would take them to this passage, and Colossians 3 is another great one where it talks about how there's now therefore no male or female, Jew or Greek, there's no Scythian or barbarian. It takes like the craziest people in the world. It says, these are two, but in Christ they are only one. And so I think that's really a helpful set of passages to go to somebody who's stuck up on this whole divided church mentality. I'd say that if we even saw the, what's that passage in Acts where some of the, like there were Jewish widows that were being taken care of, but Gentile widows were not being cared for. At six. Yeah. And the apostles were like, no, that's wrong. We need to, we need to solve that problem. They even, They even set up the deacons to care for people because they were the same people. They were one people even as they weren't looking at each other as one people yet. They were putting that down. I would have to add to the way they broke that down to the one new man. not two new men those who are near the jew and those who are far off the gentile right the same language is used in acts 2 right promises to you and your children right to those who are near those who are far off right um jesus said other sheep i have which are not of this fold them too i must bring there'll be one flock and one shepherd but I would probably, because I love dispensationalists, but I have a view that that teaching has led to the fall of the West. I think it's a horrible teaching. I think it's heterodox. I would ask him, why are you partaking of the new covenant? That's the first thing I'd ask him. Why do you take the Lord's table? And if they look at me confused, I'd say, well, you believe in the new covenant, right? Well, if you go to Jeremiah 31, And you read it, it says, behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Where is there a Gentile in there? It's not mentioned. It says, not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, when I will lead them by the hand of, you know, out of the land of Egypt. My covenant, which they broke when I was a husband to them, says the Lord. But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days. that I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. So as you go on, I would ask them, are you a Jew? And they would say, no, well, you're a Gentile. Well, this covenant doesn't include you. Because if you don't have an accurate hermeneutic on who is in the covenant, it's the tree of Israel, the natural branches that are broken off, and who are we? We're the wild olive trees. And the reason why we partake of that is because we're part of true Israel. And that's who this prophecy is mentioning. So I would probably go for the knockout blow there, and then watch them fumble over that. When I've asked a lot of my dispensational friends, they've said, I don't know. I said, well, that's great. I believe I do know, and this is why. And he is not a Jew's one hourly, but he's a Jew's one inwardly. I think when we start to look at those texts, in the way that God spoke them. The circumcision is not outward in the heart, right? But God circumcises our heart. And it doesn't matter what your ethnic DNA is. If you are a natural branch and you are a reprobate, God broke you off so he could graft in a Gentile. And he made one people out of that. So there's one covenant. You're either in Christ or you're in Adam. And it's that simple. So I think when you break that down, I think Rex had said something in Sunday school today about John MacArthur saying there's either believers and unbelievers. I said, Oh, well, great. Welcome to covenant theology. Oh, you have your father, the devil. Yeah, not all Jews are, not all Israel is Israel. So I think real quick too, just to answer that question, because they were asking about the rapture as well. And I just want to say this is because I was debating my own daughter about this particular issue. And this is Matthew 24 it says as as it was in the days of Noah So will be the coming of the son of man for in the days before the flood people were eating and drinking marrying And giving in marriage up to the day. Noah entered the ark and they knew nothing about what would happen Until the flood came and took them away This is how it will be at the coming of the son of man. And then this is where I get This is where you get the rapture view is from the second part of this right here where it says Then two men will be in the field. One will be taken in the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill. One will be taken in the other left. See? They're gonna be raptured. It's a secret rapture. Hold on, let me finish. So it'll be a secret rapture, right? We don't know, but if you look at the first part of what I just read, Who gets swept away in the flood? The unbelievers, right? They get swept away. So if you say that Christ is saying this to you here, how is he going to flip that around in the second part of that and say that these people are being raptured? to be held from something and these people are being left behind when we know that God's creating a new heaven and new earth for us to be here. They've caught their own error on that, I would say. If you know who E.W. Bollinger is, he's one of the earliest dispensationalists. If you go down to John Woodward and John MacArthur, And even Charles Ryrie, all those guys are dead now. I can't even believe I'm saying that. But they revised that teaching because they saw that, like Paul just said, it was the righteous that were left, and the wicked were taken away in judgment. So if you study dispensational teaching from the early 1900s up until Wolvard, Ryrie, and MacArthur, they don't even teach that anymore. But that was the earliest teaching. So that's just, they don't even believe that anymore. I've been taught that for 20 years. I think left behind really took that away. Okay. Are we good there? You guys have any questions? Okay. We're half out of time. We can leave you then. Okay, here we go. So what is our church's theology view about tithes and offerings? Is it strictly 10% and how do you balance it out with 2 Corinthians 9, 6 and 7 and with 1 Timothy 5 and 8? It's a good question to ask. You know, we don't preach on money a lot in our church, just because we tend to just preach through books. And when we get to things, we preach on those things. We're not as much in the topical realm of preaching. Although there's, you know, there are some merits of preaching that way. But when you get to the second Corinthians, which, what were the verses? Let's just read them out. 9, 6, 6, 7. 9, 6, 6, 7. Yeah. I love it. Show it for you. Yeah. So the point is this, whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver." So, the idea here is that there isn't a set amount, percentage even, of your earnings that you're supposed to give to the Lord, and if you give below that, you're in error. During the time when Israel was a nation, there were Offerings that the people of Israel would bring set offerings that were percentages of their income or their crops that were to be given But we really should look at our giving in the new covenant the same way because we're not under the nation of Israel We are under various different nations. You could be a believer in communist China and so there's a government that's over you that's trying to somehow keep law and order in the land and but you're not connected to them in a national way, the way that the Israelites were connected to the nation of Israel, the people of God. And so we should see that our giving today is really a matter of the heart, that it should be something that we enjoy doing, that we understand that when we give to the work of the Lord, that we're giving to something eternal, something very powerful and good. It's something that changes lives. And so the fact that we have been given anything from the Lord, that he provides for our needs, there should be an inherent in us gratitude and thankfulness for what the Lord has given to such a degree that it is now our joy to give something towards the work that glorifies his name and that spreads the gospel so that others can experience the kind of preaching and outreach that has affected us in such a way that we are a new creation. So here the fact that it's saying very clearly that he should decide how he should give according to his heart and not under compulsion, that should give us a lot of leeway and understanding. There may be times in your life when you pray and you ask the Lord for guidance in this and things are very difficult. You lost part of your income and new expenses come up and you can't give to the Lord as aggressively and as generously as you would like to. And you don't have to feel like you're in sin by pulling back some and giving a smaller amount. But then there are other times in life when may the Lord abundantly bless you and you've been given far more than you need. And so you might give the majority of your income to the Lord's work if that's the thing that the Lord has put in your heart. But I think it is important for us to realize that giving is, it is an act of worship and it is part of what God wants his people to do. And it's something that we should do regularly. That when he spoke to the Corinthian church, he told them that they were to put aside their offering each week so that when he came to collect, it wouldn't be something that they had to scramble and try to come up with. but it was something that they were seeing as a regular worship to the Lord. And so it's wise for us to think of it that way, that this is something we're blessed to do on a regular basis. When you enter into membership here at First Family Church, one of the four points is that you will give to support the ministry of the church, right? And so, and we cite those verses there in that part of the membership, 2 Corinthians. Were you okay? So at least in my own personal life, what I think, and when you think of Israel, I mean, we understand the tithe is 10%, and then when they started having kings, that percentage actually went up much higher than 10% even. But if you remember back when Abraham met Melchizedek, he gives him 10%, where does that come from? That's before the giving of the law, right? That's before the Mosaic administration, well, administration, that's before the Mosaic. That's before the, before Mosaic. It's before all that. And so I think that it's, I think there's a lot of wisdom in seeing 10%, like if we're gonna say a tie, I think 10% is not a bad place to start at all. Now, there may be some things in your life that come up where I can't do that right now. God is aware of those things. He's providentially in control of all things. So take those things into consideration. We've never done church discipline on any way because they're not giving 10%. We're not trying to peer into that. We want people to give cheerfully and not under compulsion. But 10%, I think, is a good place to start. I remember reading a work from A.W. Pink a long time ago where he talked about it, that if everybody gave 10%, then then things would go so smoothly. What we have across the landscape of the church is so many pastors barely get by at all. They have no salary at all. And they have to be bivocational, or sometimes they don't even take a salary from the church at all if they can't afford that. But if everybody gave 10%, the minister's life would be similar to that of the corporate body as well. And so I think there's a lot of wisdom in saying 10%. And then if you can do more than that, praise God. That's good to do. Do so cheerfully. But giving is an act of worship. It's something that we're privileged to do, to be able to share in the ministry that God has for his people. I'm grateful to hear Paul say that. Nick, you said a lot of great things. I'm not trying to dissent, but give a different slight. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees. He said, woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, because you pay a tithe and make a common, but you avoid the weightier matters of the law. But he went on to say, these two you should have done without leaving the others undone, right? Right. It doesn't say to stop doing. It doesn't say to stop giving. And I would argue two things. And I think Paul, when I first came to this church, helped me about Bible reading. Like, they didn't have a Bible. some of those things we don't really think about right faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of god they had to go to the temple to hear they had to go wherever to the local church to hear well what kind of obedience were they working and operating on. They didn't have a New Testament. They didn't know about sure forgiving until what? The third century. Probably some of them may have had, you know, letters circulating. Yeah, they had letters circulating, but they didn't have a Bible they were reading, is what I'm saying, right? There was a pre-New Testament. So, they would have gone off of like the antecedent or what logically preceded the law was the 10th, right? And so, but I like what Nick said, you know, you have to do it cheerfully. I think God has always loved a cheerful giver. Because we get it through progressive revelation doesn't mean it wasn't true in Israel's day, right? So when we give, how much of your finances belong to God? All of it, right? He's allowing you to hold on to it to be a steward over his finances. So like Nick was saying Sometimes you get more right, but I think we get into this me and and mine and give God his 10, that doesn't work that way. Like Nick was saying, sometimes you can give way more than that, right? Yeah. And so I think when people get caught up into the 10 in a very legalistic way, like I'm going to make God have favor towards me by just obeying with this 10. Well, it all belongs to God. He owns a cattle on a thousand hills. So Like Paul was saying, I think I'm trying to marry in their views together that 10% is a good fallback, but everything belongs to God. My assumption from what I hear is that most people don't give 10. If you look at churches across the board, most people are not giving even 10. And maybe they can't. So I'm not trying to be judgmental or anything like that. But I think, again, in my mind, I'm like, well, where does this idea, why does Abraham know to give Melchizedek a tent? Why does he know to give him a tithe? That's before any giving of the law. I think that there's something there that is instructive. Yeah, that is instructive for us, that we're trusting God, and when we give to the church, that he's going to provide even if it means a lean time for us as well, but we do so cheerfully, again, not under compulsion, and by God's grace, maybe we can even do more. I'll say one more thing too, and this doesn't get mentioned a whole lot, so I want to bring it up, and part of it is because my heart has broken seeing this actually happen in some of the Baptist churches I've been involved in. When you're giving 10 to the Lord, or whatever you give to the Lord, you're giving. You're not using that offering as a leverage to get what you want in your church. I've seen people who gave to their church, and then they felt like, well, since I give this, this church needs to do what I want it to do. And it didn't trust in any way the elders that were put over that body to make decisions about how that church was to be run. And so then their giving almost became like, I'm purchasing something from the Lord. I'm actually economically making exchange. I'm going to give you my tithe, but in exchange for that, I want a church that looks the way that I want it to look. So I don't think that's a problem here very much, but I just wanted to put that out there. Be careful that when you're giving, you're actually giving and you're trusting that the Lord is using that. You don't want to put up the tithing board? Oh man, that's rough. There are churches that'll do that. I guess in closing on this question, I'd like to just add for all of us, myself included, I'm preaching to myself as much as I'm preaching to you guys, is go and look at what you're giving. and think, could I give a little bit more? Because it's not coming to me. It's not coming to John. It's not even coming really to Paul or Nick. It's going back into the bookstall. It's going back into your youth kids. It's going back into the PG&E, like air conditioning. And it is going to Paul and Nick. It is. But I wasn't trying to make it sound like I'm saying it so that you guys get more. I'm saying it because it's being put to things. The signs out in front of Planned Parenthood don't magically appear. They go because you guys have tithed for them. Let me ask a question. Does it show, if we're not tithing, or if we're coming up with reasons not to tithe, does that show a weakness in our armor, in our faith to the Lord when we're not tithing, when we're coming up? coming up with reasons not to when we've got this big television in our house with this really nice car and all these things. Is that showing a weakness in our faith there? It shows that there is more growth to be done. So, you know, we're joking up here, but there's an inside joke I heard a black preacher say. Some of y'all done pulled up in here in stolen cars, but will a man rob God? I mean, I know the heart behind what he's saying, is yeah you're coming you're living this this lifestyle where you got this 85 inch tv you got the new car and you're watching your past the struggle and you're holding on to your money like it's yours when god has commanded you like greg said it's an act of worship it's an act of faith and you hold on to that money you're Probably not going to give it, right? That's just the way it works in the human heart. I mean, God tests our hearts for a reason. But let me see, like, where was it? Was it 1 Kings, where David begins to lament? He's like, I live in this nice, this nice, yeah, this house, this palace, and where is the Lord right now? And it was that recognition that God deserves this. And Haggai, God says it the other way. He says, y'all are living in cedar-paneled houses. And cedar was very rare, like you had to import it from Lebanon. So to get that stuff meant you were high on the hog. And so all their houses are all nice, but the temple is still a foundation with no building there. So they were neglecting the work of the Lord. And so that was a stinging word from the prophet. And when Corinthians talks about reap what you sow, along those lines, he's not there saying that, well, if you give this 10% or whatever percentage it is, then expect this automatic blessing from it. I know there's even a church in our area that does the whole Malachi tithing challenge, where you're supposed to commit to tithing and see how blessed you are, and if you don't get blessed, then the church offers to give you your money back. I think that's the most silliest, ridiculous thing that you can really do, because you remove it then as an act of love, And if you think about, what was Paul taking up the collection for? For other churches, even, to do the work of ministry. He was taking up an offering. He even says in 2 Corinthians at one point that he feels bad, like he was stealing from other churches to give to them in Corinth. And so it's a complicated matter, but I mean, definitely, if you're looking at it as like, I'm doing this, then God should bless me in this way, well then you've totally turned grace into law. That's the prosperity gospel, right? Yeah, yeah. I think Amos, there's a passage in Amos that says, lie on ivory, beds of ivory, stretch out on your couches, eat lambs from the flock. and calves from the midst of the stall, who sing idly on the sound of stringed instruments, and invent for yourselves musical instruments like David's." So he rebuked Israel for their luxurious lifestyle, all the while, you know, The temple's not getting taken care of. You've got all these problems that stem from churches that you've got a handful of people doing the giving. And the pastors... Well, the Levites, I'm sorry, the Levites relied on them because they had no inheritance. So God was their inheritance, but they relied on God's offerings. Our pastors don't work. I mean, they're full-time ministry. So I think that you've got to come to the conclusion where is, has God commanded me to do this? And it's an act of love. It's an act of your loving God with what he's blessed you to have. He doesn't need anything from you. He doesn't need anything, but if he commands us, we respond to him in worship. So rolling right into question four with that, and it says, how should a Christian handle the stewardship of his finances in the most glorifying way? Would you say that that first 10% of your finances should go to the church? Would that be your first That's how, when I was a new believer, this older guy Ed Garcia kind of took me in and started me, that was, he handed me the spreadsheet, that was the first thing he did. First thing, I'll talk, here's 10% and then think about your bills afterwards. That's just how I've always done it. That should be way. So, and then how do you finish up? The question is, how should I handle stewardship of his finances in the most glorifying way? So after that 10%, how should a Christian handle the rest of his money? Like in the United States, do we spend way more than we should? Do we, do we splurge? Do we like, how do we, I think it's worth saying it too. Also, the Lord doesn't like micromanage us in this regard. There's not like a thousand laws on exactly how you're supposed to spend your money. So I think we can sometimes even without thinking about it, get into a legalistic mind view where we see somebody driving up a new car. We're like, Oh man, that Christian's not spending his money the right way. It's not a sin to own a new car. You know, not everybody knows how to fix the, you know, their, their fuel injectors when they go out and stuff like that. That's not the deal. But you know, God gives us a lot of freedom in that. So trust the Lord, walk with the Lord. The more you love the things that the Lord is doing, the more you're going to want to be involved with that and contribute to it. I think that looking at your resources as the Lord's resources that you are a steward over is key to it all. That you're not seeing it as, this is mine, and if I'm trusting God, I'm going to give him some of mine so he can use it. No, this is all his, and because it's all his, I should have no problem at all when his word says, worship me through giving, and I worship through giving. So in that case, you keep a loose hand on everything you've got. And if a brother or sister comes into your life and comes across your path and has a need, there might be a time when the Lord has blessed you abundantly, not so that you could have that brand new car or a better house or a nice vacation, but so that that sister won't have to go without electricity that month or so that you could meet this person's need and get them back on their feet so that they can then get a job so that they can bless the church with their income. Just always be aware of the fact that what God has given to you might be that opportunity God has given to you to be blessed to help somebody else out too. That's right. Can I read you just a couple of verses? Let not each one only think of himself, but also for the needs of others. Right. That's one. And then Psalm 112, 5 says, a good man deals graciously and lends. He guides his affairs with discretion or justice. There's a couple other ones. Hebrews 13, 15 and 16, Therefore by him let us continually offer the sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of our lips, giving thanks to his name. But do not forget to do good and to share, for with such sacrifices God is well pleased. Therefore, let us do, as we have opportunity, do good to all, especially those in the house. Ephesians 4, let the thief no longer steal, but let him labor, so that he may have something to share with others. Yes, Rex? We've got to do rapid fire for the next one. I was just wondering about, in regards to that, so let's say I sell a car. I'm not a salesman of cars, but maybe I make a couple bucks on it. Do I tie it on that? I mean, even in my life, I've been renting one room to a guy for a number of years. It was only offsetting. I charged him 400 bucks. It offset my electricity and the wear and tear on my house. I had to just put a new roof, $10,000. I didn't think of it as I'm earning, like you actually are a property manager. But then when I got a second tenant, then I started tithing on my rental income because at that point it started to become enrichment to me. It wasn't just offsetting of the cost of my actual property. You know, this kind of analysis, I also try to run from my head. It's between you and the Lord, brother. I think that's on your own conscience, right? It's between you and the Lord. I think when we think of it, we're thinking of our normal salary. Because you took a normal... But you're saying it wasn't a salary of my own. Yeah, it took your normal salary to buy that car in the first place, right? So it becomes an asset. Yeah. So the asset's not really income. Yeah, it's your conscience, whatever your... It's between you and God, brother. If you want to give it all away, give it all away. Yeah, I know people that have sold a car and they gave the whole thing to the church, right? I quit writing the offering plate for you. It was just offsetting what the guy was costing me to be at my house. Yeah. Hey brother, I'll take it. I have no shame. If these brothers say no, give it here. I'll put an offering plate for you, brother. Come on. No, no, I'm serious. You think I'm kidding? Yeah, but we're under no obligation, right? That's what the word says. Like, not under obligation, but out of a right heart. You already are right with the Lord. Christ has made you right with the Lord. You're already right with the Lord. This is your evangelical obedience. Yes. But if you don't want it, I'll help you with it. Black folk got no problem taking stuff. In closing, to wrap up that question, I would say that what you do is you don't put your money towards things that are sinful. After you set aside what you're giving, don't put it into things that are sin. Okay, question number five. John, this is for you. We'll do it. We're going to go quick. So there's two parts to this question. Actually, there's three. At FCC, what is the theology of the worship service? Is it covenant renewal, worship as a gospel reenactment, heavenly participation, et cetera? And then after that answer, you have what are the implications of this view, and how would you communicate that to newcomers and children? Who wrote that question? I think it was Stephen Taylor, my guess. He's not here. But that seems like a Stephen Taylor question. What's the theology of FCC? F-F-C. F-F-C. Oh, somebody took it down. It's reform. It's Christ-centered. It's a regulated form of worship. That doesn't mean we destroy people who don't think and operate like us. Glory to God, sola delegoria, glory to God alone. I think that's what makes us distinct from other churches. We have other like-minded churches, of course, but that's the crux of it. Can I jump in? So what did it say? It listed three types, right? It says covenant renewal, worship as a gospel reenactment, and heavenly participation. They're not mutually exclusive, are they? No, not necessarily. And you think we're a new covenant, we're New Testament, new covenant, so we worship the Spirit in truth. But I know that Trump churches, it's good I think that they think through this. I think I've talked about this with Daniella before, where sometimes you form your worship service after creation, fall, redemption, glorification, right? And so the songs are like that. So if I was to have to choose between those three on that list, I mean, we're kind of not, we're not set in stone on one, but we kind of are a covenant renewal. liturgy. And so we start out with a call to worship, time of silence first, reverence first, call to worship, then we respond in song. Usually, and remember our annual business meeting last year, we said that we're trying to make these changes where we're going to have a confession and a pardon, and there's more of that back and forth discussion. We actually see that's really all from Exodus 24. That's a recording, right? Yeah, this is ancient liturgy. This is how the church has, the Protestant church, or just the New Testament church, has always just kind of done it with these elements where you have, and that's something we can talk about too, elements versus circumstances, but the elements of a worship service with the preaching of the word, praying, singing, giving, is in there a little bit more loosely. People debate about that. If we have to choose between one of those, I mean, we don't have like, we don't say, this is a covenant renewal service. But I mean, that's kind of what it is. Because usually with that too, there's always the Lord's Supper as well. Because you're thinking of these things that happen and you're being reminded of the covenant that we're in. That's what's meant by that. That you're being reminded that we are in covenant with God. And the service is like that. And so if you're really good at it, maybe even your songs are kind of formed Along that that path like there's you might start with a song and that's the thing too. Usually they're heavy song singing it's a little bit easier with that because the songs are able to be broken down into categories more effectively, but The song might be about a brokenness for sin at one point, and then after we do the confession, the pardon, then it'll be like a song about praise for the grace of God. So it moves like that. It's a way of thinking, how does the service move from start to finish? And like I said, we don't have one that's like, this is us. But I think that we are close to a covenant renewal liturgy is what I think. Yeah, and maybe the clearest way to think about the covenant or a way to break it down would be that there's like five C's that would kind of order the the movement of the service. And so the first one would be the call to worship. The second would be confession of sin. So acknowledgement of your need for the Lord. And then a consecration would be the third C, which is where you're acknowledging the work that God has done to make possible for you to be near to him. And so we're rejoicing in the cross. We're preaching Christ. We're singing songs that exalt his finished work. And then communion would be the fourth C. And so a lot of churches that are covenant renewal churches will do communion every week. And that's something we're considering right now too, just because of the importance that the New Testament gives communion and why it is such a blessing to the saints. And the last would be commissioning, which is a benediction at the end of the service that blesses the people and then sends them out to put into action the things that you have learned. And so if you think about those five C's, You've seen those at FFC for quite a while. Probably at FCC as well, right? We pretty much have them all. I wonder why they're debating. To me, I think it's good to glean the challenge, maybe. But I know people die, like you listen to Aldo, like they die on the hill of some of this stuff. Like, I've been Reformed a long time, and I like to go and visit other Reformed churches just to see how they do it and to get challenged that way, but I don't think these are issues you should divide over or get so dogmatic when you're telling people they're almost in sin because their doxology doesn't align up with yours. That's why I just prefer to just say we're Reformed, we're Christ-centered, we're growing in our worship, we're reforming our worship. But there's no real right or wrong way if you have regulative worship. I mean, some people will debate those things, but I don't think they're issues you want to kick people out of the kingdom for. Without a thoughtful approach to doing your worship services, though, what you're going to typically find is churches are going to not have the confession part. You're not going to have people who are confessing their sins. Modern Western Christianity is lacking sorely in a lot of churches in this idea of like, let's acknowledge our need for salvation. Let's acknowledge our sin before the Lord and ask for forgiveness and foster a repentant attitude. And communion often becomes like a footnote where it's so small that churches will do it only a couple times a year. And I think that's a serious issue. error because the Lord has given us communion to be a blessing to us. And you all have been blessed by communion. You know how impactful it can be. So I do appreciate the 5 Cs, but we're not like legalistic 5 C kind of church where we're going to make sure that everything we do falls in line exactly and precisely with that. But I think it's a really good framework and a good way of looking at things. OK, I'm going to ask Steve this question because him and I talked about this earlier today. And I had to look this up because I had no idea. So OK. Question six, what should I do if one of my friends becomes a furry? Is this sort of thing prohibited by scripture and it doesn't seem to be sexual at all but things like that are usually tied to that and it worries me. I'm glad I just straight-up said, I don't understand. I see it at the high school all the time. If you don't know what a furry is, a furry is a person who dresses up as some style of an animal, often like a dog or a fox. Those kind of animals are cat. And then they have human traits. They have human traits. They can talk, but they'll also make animal noises. It's wild, John. It's wild. I would say that very often that the furry community does end up devolving into weird sex stuff. If your friend isn't, That's good. But very often, it does start to lead down that road. It certainly opens up those avenues. How should I? I'm sorry. What should I do? I think you would just talk to your friend and say, and ask them, why are you doing this? I would ask, are they a believer? I would advise against it. I don't think it's a good idea because of all, it's just a stepping stone down towards a whole bunch of other really immoral things. It deals with people who are having mental issues that are also doing it. So you're feeding into people's mental issues by... Would you say that's on the same lines as transgenderism? You want to be something other than what God created you to be. It's definitely under that same umbrella for sure. But I would talk to them. If they're a believer, I definitely would be encouraging them out of it because I think it just leads you into bad stuff. And there's a difference too, guys, between my seven-year-old daughter jumping out from around the corner and growling at me like a lion. She does that all day long, okay? So she'll play games like that and act like an animal because she's a child, right? That's what a child's mind does. There's nothing really twisted in that. But when we have a culture where defiance and redefining reality is sort of like the push right now, for somebody to try to convince you that they are somehow not just a human, but like a fox human, they're really trying to push you into thinking about them in a way that's obviously a lie and it can be very twisting to the truth. So I would just say first Corinthians 13 verse 11 when I was a child, I spoke like a child. I thought like a child. I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways for now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, then I shall know fully even as I am fully known. So now faith, hope, and love abide in these three, but the greatest of these is love. And so I would say it is a matter of truth and love when somebody is trying to live in this weird, alternate, pseudo-human lifestyle. You were made in the image of God, be a human. That's what you're made to be. And be kind to them, but be firm with them, that this whole charade where people walk around and they kind of expect you to accept their animalness, I don't accept it. It's not who they are. And the whole sex thing is not very far off. You're walking yourself right into all that other stuff, for sure. As someone who has a schizophrenic brother, I can just say that He said some very peculiar things along those lines. And I think sometimes what we call mental illness, we don't know if it's the possession. I'm not saying that all mental illness is the possession, because I don't believe that. But some of what we call, like even what he has, schizophrenia, when that medicine wears off and he's hearing voices, There's something wrong with that to me, spiritually speaking, right? And then when you add that kind of a dynamic. I was just whispering in Nick's ears, this is why we need continuity, because that is pure bestiality in my mind. It's just sin. It's just sin. And what we call sin can make you look like you're mentally ill, makes you look like you're crazy, because it's illogical. But we all do it. Yeah, it's insane. We all do it, but there's different degrees. Jesus said, the one who delivered me over to you has the greater sin. There's different degrees of sin, and that clearly is one of them. And we definitely live in California. And we see it, right? Greg works at a high school. There are kids that walk around. I mean, for me, it's relatively new over the last few years. I see more and more kids with tails and their faces dressed up and makeup where they literally look like a cat or a dog or some other creature that they've created and they literally get together. And I'll see 10, 15 of them communicating with each other in these weird ways out in the halls. So it's definitely, like, I just thought it was like them being, I didn't know it was a whole subculture of people that do this thing. I was like, wait, what? If my wife looked at me all crazy like, what are you saying to me? It's the fruit of post-modernism. And so if you think, there's a philosopher named Eric Erickson who talked about identity. And if you look at our cross, our culture today, there's so much of what people call an identity crisis. Do I identify as a man, a woman, a furry, a transgender, or some other sort of made up thing? And I think Christians have tried to co-opt that and say we find our identity in Christ. That's not really the best used to think of the term, really what we want to focus on as believers is our union with Christ, and is what I'm doing glorifying to God. To do everything that you do, whether you eat and drink, do unto the glory of God. You can't pretend to be some animal to the glory of God. That's a cultural event that we can have fun with, but this is where people have this weird idea about identifying themselves in a weird way, and they're not seeing that they are made in the image of God. themselves in their own image that they get to define and control. It's a rejection of God's holiness and his design for you. It's a full assault on trying to push back on just what truth is. I feel like when I look at the kids at the high school that are doing it, they're kids that are struggling in their reality of their lives. So they're putting on this other alter ego that says, I don't have to deal with reality. I can deal with this cartoonish kind of character. And so reality isn't really set in. That's what I was saying this morning, right? Our conscience tells us we're ruined. And it's true, and so what do you do? You try to appease it by something else, or you plead with Christ. And this is a way where people can appease their consciences and say, OK, well, I can do this and not feel good about myself. And it's deadly. But you see how these safe spaces in our society and even in the public schools have kind of created and fostered this environment. Back when we were coming up in the 80s and the 90s, You know, you see natural law and you see people say, oh, bring back bullying. Well, you get beat up if you did that stuff. We were coming up, right? Like you couldn't just do whatever you wanted. Like somebody would jump on you and knock some sense into you. Probably. I'm not saying that's right. I don't think our brother's saying. No, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that even through natural law, there would be people who would see this kind of sickness and they know that it's wrong. Well, but they wouldn't try to care for these people. They would try to assault these people. And that's wrong too. Two wrongs don't make a right. But. I'm just saying that now, this kind of do-whatever-you-want has led to this platonic thought where even Plato said, well, you know, the freest societies end up in tyranny. And tolerating this kind of weirdness and distortion is cruel. It is. Because when you let a child grow up thinking this is okay, they just define themselves and ignore what God has clearly called them to be. they don't know how to handle life. They go out into the world and it's like, it's all retreatism. They're not able to stand and with God's help face the challenges of the day. So again, the best thing to do, preach the gospel to these friends, you know, and show them that they can be in Christ and help them to see the dangers of it. A follow up thing for that. How would you, um, like trying to help your friends who you feel like they haven't done a great job like i don't i don't say this in a weird way in a rude way but like growing up like they're still just like thinking about childish stuff, speaking in like ways where she's like, okay, we're not going to drive anymore. First Corinthians 13, right? When I was a child, like a child, I think you stepped out like a child. Oh, you didn't hear that. Okay. First Corinthians chapter 13, I think starting in verse seven or so to the end, he just talks about the beauty of that. Love is associated with growing. God is making us more Christlike. And so we shouldn't want to just stay immature all the time, like little babes. I think you could take him to Hebrews chapter 5 at the end where it talks about how they should be eating meat but they're still drinking the milk of the word and so he has to go back to the bare essentials. And so we should help people see that growth is important to your faith, especially if they're believers. that they shouldn't be content to just stay immature and with zero responsibilities, but it's good to do hard things. It's good to step out on faith and to trust the Lord and to want to be an active member of society as a Christian, making an influence on the world, so. That's a good thing to talk about. How many questions do we have left? We have several more, but I figured we could go. You guys want to go one more or you want to be done? Probably either. How many do we have left? We have seven, eight, nine, and ten. I thought there was one here that I thought I might have. I was just going to say there's a time for everything under heaven, right? There's nothing wrong with having fun. There's a time to weep, a time to laugh, a time to mourn, a time to dance, a time to tear, you know, a time to kill, a time to love, a time for war, a time for peace. When you come into manhood, you start to have fun. But that's not all life is. Being a furry isn't about childish behavior. It's about sexual deviancy. It's about depravity. It's about rejecting God's image. Yeah, but you started talking about childish behavior in that as well. Go ahead, Greg. Do you have a fast one? I like the question because it was kind of personal, like not personal for me, but I just thought the person who wrote it is kind of, so I'm going to skip one to go to number eight because I don't know, kind of hit me. So I'm going to ask you real quick. So that's actually your question. Is it appropriate for a male? a female who are dating in faith to have joint together private alone right prayer sessions where they're seeking the Lord's guidance on some question or should that be reserved for the covenant of marriage because it's too intimate yeah I think believers can pray together is that I think that's okay you know if you're if you're saying like it's You don't want to put yourself in a position where you're alone with another person that you're romantically involved in, especially because temptation is stronger than we often assume that it is. But I mean, if you're in a relationship, a dating relationship or engagement or whatever, It's fine to pray with that person. You don't have to wait to pray with that person until you're married. I think that's what it is because I think young people sometimes feel like, because even with me, I tell my daughter, you don't be alone with that boy, right? You don't. So I think prayer sometimes can be very personal. You can get emotional during prayer. So, you know, during that emotional time and when you're with somebody who you care about but you're not in covenant with yet, right, is it appropriate to pray in an emotional state or should that be done separately? Does that make sense? I guess from my point of view, I think that's what they're asking. Yeah, and I have four daughters, so I'm trying to think of it like in that regard as well too. You know, I would expect that if there's a man that's courting one of my daughters or my sons, if they're involved with a girl, I would hope that they're praying together, that that's part of their relationship, that their relationship at a dating or getting to know each other level isn't devoid of seeking Christ. I would hope that they would do that together. Yeah, I mean obviously you shouldn't be in bed together praying. That's obviously backwards and weird, right? But I mean, if you're out on a date, you're out eating dinner, yeah, pray together. You're going home. Well, you pray for each other. That's why that seems like a good thing to me. Yeah. I think it's the being alone and the temptation that's the issue, not the praying together. I think that's what it is. Yeah, and I wish they would have wrote this a little different. I mean, the private, comma, prayer sessions. I mean, as someone who has two daughters and a grown one, I mean, if she wants to go out with a boy, I say no. You can't with a chaperone. I mean, my mom was 26 when she was dating my father. And my grandfather said, yeah, I'll kill you. But leave, you know, you deal with my daughter the right way. Don't play with my daughter. And I think that conversation, men need to respect boundaries. It's not good for a man to touch a woman. Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife and each woman have her own husband. Make no provision for the flesh and the lust thereof. Walk in the spirit so that you don't fulfill lust of the flesh. Like Paul said, I have four daughters. I only have two. Um, you definitely want to be cautious because, you know, that bed you're talking about praying on can turn into your car. The car can become a bedroom. Um, you know, you've got to exercise discernment. And when it says make no provision for the flesh and the lust, there are believers are going to come to different conclusions on this. But, um, you know, I dated a regenerative woman before I was regenerating. You know, you don't have to be unregenerate to want to sin. The Bible tells us we want to sin in Galatians 5, you know, sin as passing pleasures. And so we got to be cautious. We're not to feed the flesh. We're to put the flesh to death. If you live by the flesh, you shall die. So I think those things do need to be cautious. If you look, I think Ligonier did a poll with how many believers, regenerate people, professing Christians have sex before marriage, and it was almost 60%. That's probably more than that. That's the ones that are being honest, right? Yeah, that's the ones that are being honest. And so, yeah. If I touched my wife's leg, it was a no. The no becomes yes after a while, so you better be careful. That's my advice. The problem is putting yourself in a situation in which you could fall. Praying together is not bad, but you want that. It depends on where you're at. It would be like if you're outdoors. like you're on a date, but you're outside in public, in a sense, in a place where you can pray together, that's one thing. But if you're alone, alone somewhere, like... Hotel room? That's what I'm saying. That's the weight of the question. If you're in a weird position, then that's already the problem. But as far as the practice of praying between people who aren't married, you don't have to be married to a person to pray with them. Obviously we know that, we pray with each other all the time. There's people at church that are women that I talk to and I'll pray with them right then and there. And granted it's a public space out in the open, but I think those prayers are genuine and there's real issues that people have that we have to bring to the Lord and intercede for one another. But the problem would be setting yourself up to be in a position where temptation will overcome you in the first place. Whether that's in your car, whether that's in a bedroom by yourself, whether that's in a house where there's no other people that are there, those are the issues. Praying is good. Praying is a one another commitment. We should be praying for each other. Do you desire to do it because it's prayer or do you desire to do it because it's alone? Ask the question. The motive. What is the motive behind it? So if you saw a guy saying, hey come to my house so we can pray together, and it's just him there, don't do that. Don't do that. When I was growing up in the church, too, I think that there's a lot of blind spots, too, because when you grow up in the church, you really aren't exposed to that. You know, you have to be in a hotel room. I mean, you know, I know this has been recorded, but, you know, I grew up in the brave world. Here's a can. No, I do. I'm not going to say anything. I'm not going to say anything about that. But we grew up hearing songs called Backseat Queens. So, I mean, there's a reason where you've got to be discerning as a Christian because You don't have to be as wicked as the people down the street or across the street. You have wickedness in you. You know, Jesus calls his disciples, if you then being evil know how to give good gifts, you better look at that and apply that to yourself and look to the Lord for discernment and protection. If you trust in the Lord, there's safety there. When you don't trust in the Lord, you're not safe. It's not a bad thing to desire intimacy with a person, but that's given to us to be within the covenant of marriage. And so we do premarital counseling. One of the things we understand is that those are two people who are into each other. And so the temptation to be physical is going to be there. And so we talk with them, we pray with them there. With them there, Lord help them to be pure. And they should be praying that as well too. I mean, they both know that they want to be. That's natural. God wants us to be, for the vast majority of people, to be married and to have a family. Those are good things. that the Lord gives us. But obviously you don't want to do that outside of the covenant of marriage, but so be praying together for each other's chastity. Or you'll be getting married a lot faster, because that baby will come. Yeah, or the baby will come before you get married even, and that happens. Christians do that. That happens to Christians. Exactly. But the problem isn't that they're praying together. The problem is that they're giving themselves over into temptation. They're probably actually not praying enough. They're probably not actually praying the way they should be praying. Lord, help me. I love this woman. I love this man. Give me strength. Help us to be holy, Lord. Help us to save each other so that we may enjoy each other within the covenantal bond of marriage that you have given. So even like an intimate prayer, I think, is not bad in itself, but you just can't, you know, come to my bedroom, so we're going to pray this, and then let's hang out and watch TV. Like then you're just being, you're being foolish. You are setting yourself up. And you will fall. Yeah. You don't have to be in the world to know that. Do not sabotage yourself. Any other quick 15 minute ones? No. You better say bless you and have a happy life. Come back for next week's Q&A. Greg, you did a good job moderating Q&A. Amen. Heavenly Father, I'm so thankful for today. I'm thankful for the message we heard today, the potluck that we heard, and I'm just so thankful for the fellowship that we have in this church, and I just pray that you continue to protect us, and you guide us, and we look to you for guidance in everything that we do, Father, that you would bring our church, continue to help us grow. I saw some new visitors today, people here, and I just ask that you continue to bring people to you, and be your will, Father, bring them to First Family Church. an awesome group of elders who are willing to serve and to help and I just pray that you would be with them as well and guide them and protect them and everything that they do and that we can just make the church, you know, the forefront of the community and people would feel safe and willing and wanting to come here, Father. So I'm thankful for today. I'm thankful for the word that we heard today, the questions that we answered, and that you would just take us home safely. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen. I did, yeah. You know, I thought about that. And do like his flexible pose.