Roger Williams says, just to remind you and get us back up to speed, that the Ekklesia, the body of Christ, is like a garden. And he called it the garden of the church. The world which is devoid of Christ. The world for whom the Lord Jesus did not pray. He did not pray for the world. He prayed for his disciples. He died for his elect. He knows who they are. He isn't wondering, I better pray for him in case he comes to Christ. That's not how God operates. You and I don't know. But the Lord, there's a definitive number of his elect that he has called from the foundation of the world. And he loved them, and he came to this earth for them, and he died for them, and he brought them salvation. He established a covenant for them. They are, as Roger Williams says, they are the garden of God. He called them the garden of the church. And then there's the wilderness of the world, he said. The world is a wilderness. dry and parched, and that's biblical imagery. The world is the wilderness. And, of course, the so-called church, the ecclesia, is the Garden of Eden. It's the garden that God made. It's his people, his garden. And Williams went on to basically teach that when we attempt, because they were doing it in his day, Rome was doing it, the early Protestants were doing it, they were doing it in Massachusetts with the Puritans up in Boston. He caught the brunt end of it himself. He had personal experience with these dealings. I'm going to use his nomenclature. When the church embraces dominionism and uses the sort of state to enforce or prod people believe correct doctrine and to walk in godly practice when the church, the garden of the church, uses the instruments of the wilderness. Because the sword we use is the sword of the Spirit of God, not a sword of steel. But when we use the instruments of the wilderness, And when we tear down the wall that should exist between, as William says, the garden and the wilderness, right? You've got a garden. It's pristine. You tend to it. You care for it. You fertilize it. You water it. You prune it. You spend all your time there, and you reap benefits from it. But when you've got an unruly wilderness on the outside, it wants to creep in. You know the weeds want to come in, right? And the bramble and the thorns and the poison ivy and the rest of it, it wants to come. It's a never-ending battle in my backyard and I get poison ivy like that, you know. I don't get it by walking around, walking by it and breathing it, but, you know, I can get it pretty easy. Not as easy as some, but I get it easy. And so I always hate the battle every spring, and it's always encroaching on the yard, it's encroaching where I have my garden, I have to fight it off in the fences, and I just like to take, you know, dig it all out with a backhoe and just put all gravel down there and don't, you know, and fight it off for a while, lessen my burden. But that's what happens. So you've got to protect the garden. I've got a fence around my garden. Not only is there, in the wilderness, there isn't just this growth, there's wild animals. And I put chicken wire this high up and then I extend the poles and I put just string To deter the deer, deer will jump over a thing that high, no problem. But with the strings and just hang some things from the string. But I need a wall between even the wild beasts, see. So when you have a garden and the wilderness is all around it, you put a wall between the wilderness and the garden. And Roger Williams said, When we employ the methods of the world, when we mix church and state, when we use the secular sword to enforce spiritual principles in the church, when we say you've got to belong to the church to have civil rights in the town, guess what? everybody joins the church. That means everybody votes in the church, because they had democratic forums, and when everybody votes the church, and you've now invited the world into the church, just let it go on for a generation, and most of the church is unconverted. Most of the church is voting not on spiritual principles, but they're pretending to be Christians. And Williams says, you'll turn the garden of the church into a wilderness. And this was the root of his argument against the mixing of church and state. What do I do with that? Right here. Just let me remind you. I'm not going to read what Williams wrote. I've read it many times in different ways, different years. You've heard it quite a bit. But I'm just going to remind you. Well, no, I do have to read what he wrote concerning this. I read this to you last week. I want to refresh your mind because we're driving to this point. Williams says that this invisible church alone is to be the fulfillment of Old Testament Israel, the Old Testaments, the Old Testaments, Israel motif. Cotton, John Cotton, and many others have suggested that America is a Christian nation or the true Israel of God. City set upon a hill, you see. But Williams says that the Old Testament physical usage of Israel as a nation is a type which is true. It couldn't be the end to which God was aiming all along because he was destroyed. I mean, God doesn't fail. Old Testament Israel was a type, symbol, or metaphor of the Church of the New Testament. Not almost every church in the area denies that. There are exceptions. There are very few, very few. Almost all the Baptists deny that. And they're the ones we tend to think of because we kind of have root in Baptist tradition in a very real sense. but from a reformed perspective. It's a metaphor of the church of the New Testament, and that all the laws governing Israel in the Old Testament are not meant to be followed now as examples by secular or supposed Christian nations, but that these laws must act simply as metaphors of the true church. Now here he quotes Williams. I just love this. Christ Jesus has come, Roger Williams writes. So unmatchable and never to be paralleled by any national state that was Israel in the figure or shadow. In other words, you had Israel in the figure or shadow in the Old Covenant, the Old Covenant nation. That Old Covenant type and shadow is never fulfilled since then in any physical nation. It's not parallel, he says, by any national state that was Israel in the figure or shadow. And yet, the Israel of God now, Williams writes, the Israel of God now, the regenerate or newborn, the circumcised in heart by repentance and mortification, who willingly submit to the Lord Jesus as their only king in head. They, he says, may fitly parallel in answer to that Israel in the type. Old Testament Israel was a type, pointing to the believer who's been regenerated under the new covenant. It was a shadow of the Ekklesia of God, which is that new covenant Israel. may fitly parallel in answer to that Israel in the type without such danger of hypocrisy, of such horrible profanations, and of firing the civil state in such bloody combustions as all ages have brought forth upon this compelling a whole nation or kingdom to be the anti-type of Israel." Which is what they're all trying to do. England, we're the nation of God and we're the true church. And many Lutherans could say, we're the nation of God and Lutheran church is the true church. Then they come over in Boston and say, where the city set upon the hill, the Israel of God, where the true church and on it goes. And Williams is saying, there's no nation. That's the answer to the type that God portrays in old Testament Israel. The only answer, the only fulfillment of that type are the believers in Jesus Christ, the Ekklesia under the New Covenant. They are the fulfillment of the typology of Old Covenant Israel. They are the Israel of God under the New Covenant. I'm thinking to myself, Roger Williams teaching our doctrine. Now, his point is to say the doctrine of the Israel of God demands that we understand why there is a separation of church and state. And by the way, there's other things, little tidbits we glean here, if you pay attention, that goes beyond what the subject is. Not only is he acknowledging we are the Israel of God, he's teaching Clavel's doctrine. And by the way, as I indicated before, Not many churches are doing that. Are they teaching that Christians are the Israel of God, say, over at Ocean State or over at the big, you know, we raise people from the dead church on Route 7 in Smithfield. Trying to think of some of the big ones they have now here. or the New Life Fellowship, or the Blue Dome Church, and they can kind of snicker at us at the Blue Dome Church and say, oh, they're small, who do we care? What do we care what they say? In other words, we don't have to answer what Pastor Gallagher says, because he's just got this little congregation, so we can just ignore what he says. You can do that. True. You're just looking to look like you're winning? Is that what church is to you? You don't even care about the truth? See, these places aren't teaching that. Rhode Island was founded upon a man who believed that Christians are the Israel of God and saw it fundamental to his argument of the separation of church and state in Rhode Island. Rhode Island was founded upon what we teach you here. Something else is kind of interesting. He writes, the Israel of God now who are the regenerate or newborn, the circumcised in heart by repentance and mortification, who willingly submit unto the Lord Jesus as their only king. Wait a minute, you know what else he's teaching? What they call lordship salvation. Roger Williams did not believe in this easy believism of these current free, not free grace preachers, but these, you know, grace, super grace preachers. And they just excoriated men like John MacArthur when he wrote the gospel according to Jesus because he said, if you're a Christian, it makes a difference in your life. This is the essence of his book. I mean, I just gave you the cliff notes. If you're a Christian, then the Lord has changed you. And there is repentance. You turn from the way you were going you turn in the direction of following the shepherd. And people say, that's legalism. You're writing works to grace. And they excoriate those who teach that faith without works is dead. When we acknowledge it, they say, that's legalism. And they're pretending they're preaching grace. That was the doctrine. Not only that we are the Israel of God, but that God changes a man in conversion. that conversion is dynamic and real and powerful and spiritual and of the Holy Ghost and we become new creatures in Christ. We don't become perfect, we still have sins, we still have failures, but we're not the same people we were. Roger Williams believed that. Rhode Island is founded by a man who believed in the sovereignty of God and in lordship salvation and in the doctrine that Christians who are in Christ are the Israel of God. Kind of nice, part of our Rhode Island heritage, you know, whoever thought of it that way. Now it was different in Boston and we quoted to you Cotton, just let me read this quote from Cotton quick, that a man may be an offender in matters of religion. against the law of God, against the church, as well as in civil matters against Caesar, as to be worthy of death, and that for the judgment of his person in these causes, whether ecclesiastical or civil, it is lawful in some cases to appeal to a civil, though a pagan magistrate, that the civil magistrate, whether Christian or pagan, may and ought to be able to judge, though not of all questions, yet of capital offenses against religion, as well as against the civil state. John Cotton was absolutely saying combine the church and the state, and that even a pagan magistrate has the authority to use a sword of steel to punish improper doctrine and Christian practice. That was Boston. That was John Cotton. Massachusetts was built on dominionism. Rhode Island under Roger Williams was built on the truth that we are the Israel of God and the true Israel of God have their lives changed. That's what makes them the garden of God and they need a wall of protection between them and the wilderness of the world. Turn to Daniel chapter 3, and let's see just how right Roger Williams is. And this is the account, well known to all of us, of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. And this third chapter illustrates for us the dangers of having a theocracy. You want to have a dominionist state? You want to have the civil magistrates. Who are our civil magistrates now? Right now as president would be Donald Trump. As much as we thought Donald Trump was far superior choice to Hillary Clinton, how would you like to have Donald Trump wield the sword on behalf of the faith of Christ? Would you be comfortable with that? We know we wouldn't be comfortable with Hillary, but no, I wouldn't be comfortable with him. I wouldn't be comfortable with Mitt Romney. I don't want a Mormon wielding that sword. Who should wield the sword to discipline God's people? God. God. Not you and I, God. Now, there's dangers to the theocratic nation states in this new covenant era. We need to keep a wall between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world. Here's the proof. Verse one. Nebuchadnezzar the king made an image of gold whose height was threescore cubits and breadth thereof six cubits. He set it up in the plain of Dura in the province of Babylon. Then Nebuchadnezzar the king sent to gather together the princes, the governors, and the captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counselors, the sheriffs. Now see these are not ecclesiastical offices, right? This is the world. This is the civil rulers. and all the rulers of the provinces to come to the dedication of the image which Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up. Then the princes, the governors, and the captains, the judges, and the treasurers, and the counselors, and the sheriffs, and all the rulers of the provinces were gathered together under the dedication of the image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up. An image of himself, or at least he's the head of gold, right? And they stood before the image that Nebuchadnezzar had set up. Then a herald cried aloud, To you it is commanded, O people, nations, and languages, that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of music, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king Nebuchadnezzar has established a religion and he has mandated men's conscience in worship And he has commanded their allegiance to a state created and controlled and enforced religion or faith. And all citizens are being required to comply. So when you hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, and all this, you're supposed to fall down and worship the idol that he has made. And it's commanded on all citizens. Now this is church and state combined, right? So here we have an example of it. Now verse 6, And whoso falleth not down, and worshipeth, shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace. Therefore at that time, when all the people heard the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and all kinds of music, all the people, the nations, and languages fell down and worshipped the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up. Well, there you go, proof positive, caves closed. Not quite. This state mandated and controlled worship. was required of all and according to verse 6 there was a very severe penalty that would be imposed if the people did not follow the state-mandated religion and that severe penalty was death, a horrible death, being thrown into a fiery burning furnace. I guess the point that was made by Williams in his argument against state-mandated religion is so very prominently on display here in verse 7, in the first word of verse 7. The first word of verse 7 is the essence of Roger Williams' argument. Therefore. Now therefore means, verse 6, is the cause of verse 7. Verse 6 says there's a penalty if you don't worship the way we tell you to. The penalty is the state will use a sword, in this case fire, and they'll burn you alive until you die. That's the threat by the state that is imposed upon all citizens. Now, therefore, it was because of that threat, what happened because of that threat. Therefore, at that time, when all the people heard, this isn't talking about if they do, now we're being told what happened. Therefore, at that time, when all the people heard the sound of the cornet, flute, harpsichord, butt, psaltery, and all kinds of music, All the people, the nations and the languages fell down and worshiped the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up. So because of this threat, When they heard the sound, they all capitulated and they all worshipped the image. But the reason they worshipped the image is because they were threatened with a horrible, violent death, which means that their worship was hypocritical. It was insincere and it was coerced. It was a mockery because the reason they did it isn't because they were convinced it was the right thing to do in their hearts and they repented and turned to the image of Nebuchadnezzar. They did it because they didn't want to die. Someone may say, well, yeah, but that was a false religion. So to use the sword to require that is truly obnoxious, but it's different when it's, what if it was the true religion? That's different. Is it different? I don't think so. So let's say Nebuchadnezzar, rather than requiring a false religion of idolatry, let's say he required the truth. Let's say some potentate today came into America and said, you must worship Jesus as the Christ, the son of a living God, and acknowledge that he is the Messiah, savior of the world, the king of Israel, and that he died for your sins and rose again from the dead, and all men must put their faith and trust in him, believe and be baptized, and be a part of the local assembly, or you die. And guess what? It says here in verse 7, all the people. Well, if you put that to modern terms, I think all the people would comply again. You'd be thrown into a fiery furnace. So, pews would fill right up, I tell you. There'd be more new people than there are present people. And then what will have happened? Exactly what Roger Williams says happens. The garden of the church will become a wilderness. And all those new people would say, you know, Pastor Gallagher, he's kind of, you know. We didn't like that sermon you preached the other day. It made us feel bad. You insulted my mama, even though you never mentioned my mama. But my mama thought the way you said, and you said some pretty hard words. Well, I mean, were the words true? Were they from the Bible? I mean, I don't mean to insult your mama, but if your mother is fighting against God, she ought to know it. And maybe we could have an emergency meeting and somehow boot me out. Oh, we can't do that. Well, then we need to vote in a democracy so we can boot him out. And I would just live through misery, heartache, and Clayville would become the very reason At 17 years old, half of me said, last thing in the world I want to do is ever be a minister in the ministry. Because it just seemed to me like you want to be a salesman. You've got to cater to the weak-minded and those that seem hypocritical. But they fill the pews, so many of them. In the church I grew up in, I see them come there. I remember one time Paul's father was the minister, and one guy stood up. I make a motion that we lower his salary. I don't care what he thought of them. He wasn't saying that because they had run out of money. It was vindictiveness. Even when I was 15 years old, I thought, how many unconverted people, you know, going into a business meeting, you know, I didn't go into a business meeting, I guess when I was 16, maybe you didn't go into a business meeting until you were 16, but once I started going to church business meetings, you talk about the balloon being deflated. You know, you hear sermons and it's all lofty and up here and it sounds so wonderful and I believed. But that's not how it was on the ground in so many instances. Well, because of the threat of the use of the sword of state, they all got religion. They all became Christians and joined the church and they all showed up at the annual business meeting and the church became a wilderness. You don't have to go too far for Roger Williams to be vindicated in this account to be sure. And you say, well, But at least it would be using the threat of the sword for a good and true religion. No, no, no benefit to that at all. Okay. They may be singing Psalms and maybe they'll be taking a large table. And maybe if you say Jesus is the Christ, they can be trained and they say, amen. You know, in amen churches where everybody does it, it's easy to do. So everybody says, amen. And I've almost often discovered some of your loudest amen is of the biggest phonies and hypocrites that ever walked the face of the earth. Not that it's always true, but it was in many instances. They say, well, at least they're doing good things. Okay. But the Lord said, the prophet said to the children of Israel under the old covenant, I've quoted this so many times, your new moons and Sabbaths, God hates. Wait a minute. New moons. That's part of the law of Moses. Yes. Keeping of the Sabbath, that's part of the law of God to His people, yeah. And God hates it when you keep His Sabbaths, because it's hypocritical, it's phony. You people don't believe what you say you believe. This is for show. God despises your faithfulness to His commandments. And I do not know I do not know how often that happens with the Lord and in how many churches it's true today. We tend to like to think, well, that's true for the Mormons or the Jehovah's Witnesses. But when we come to think of born-again Christianity, oh, no, no, no, no, no. Well, God knows. I'm not going to give you the answer to that, but it has to exist. It's always existed, and it existed amongst those who appeared to be the orthodox ones that are following the word. That's the context of those new moons and Sabbaths. So even when the sword is used to enforce the truth, as the dominionists would think, they think it would bring paradise on earth. No, it won't. You will destroy the body of Christ by bringing in the world. I mean, that's the essence of the doctrine of separation. Separation isn't, oh, I'm so much greater than you, you don't deserve to hang around me. Separation is, if I come close to sin, if I constantly expose myself to sin and evil practice, it may rub off on me. A little humility says, come out from among them and be separate. The Lord says, you belong to me. Don't mix with the ungodly. This is why the Lord said to the children of Israel, you need to slay the inhabitants of the land when you take it. That's cruel. Well, you know what? The reason that's necessary is because of your corruption. Why is Christianity plagued with so many false doctrines and unscriptural practices? And why do so few Christians see certain biblical truths? No matter what you do, you can lay it out on a silver platter in as organized a fashion as possible, but they just won't hear it. Why is that true in what appears to be the born-again body of Christ? And why can't we unite as one Doctrinally, I mean, if we're devoted to the same Lord and the same Christ, we have the same Bible, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, then there ought to be unity. So why isn't there unity? A very natural question, been asked for 2,000 years. And I'll say in part, I'm not saying this is the whole answer at all, but I would say in part because Christians have employed, instead of Bereanship, for examination and godly contemplation which requires freedom as well. But Christians have employed instead of freedom, they've employed emotional coercion. and social pressure in order to achieve conformity of doctrine. And rather than depending upon sola scriptura and not fearing God's word, they intimidate their brethren. Now I know the Bible says, and Paul says, we're not to have company with those that don't walk in the doctrine that is delivered unto the saints. Look, I understand that. There is a valid reason sometimes for separation over doctrine. But this goes way beyond that. Intimidation and social pressure in bullying is par for the course. If you believe Christians today are the true Israel of God, there will be segments of born-again, conservative, Bible-believing Christianity. When I say born-again, they profess it anyway. I won't make a judge whether it's true or not, but they confess. You must be born-again Bible believers. When you say that you believe that Christians are the Israel of God, many of these other Christians that should be with you, they'll charge you with anti-Semitism. They'll say that doctrine, Hal Lindsey says, I got the book at home. That doctrine is responsible for the ovens of Auschwitz. Which is stupid. Yeah. Okay. Adolf Hitler was a Calvinist Christians who believed that those who are in Christ are the Israel of God. That's a joke. He believed in evolution. He believed in a racial theory. He was nothing Christian about the man other than paying lip service like so many political heads do. But why do these Christians say, like, try and smear us with Adolf Hitler? Well, they'll do that with Donald Trump's appointees now, right? Doesn't take much. The left hates. They're happy with lying to get their way and smearing whatever it takes. We underestimate the depravity of man's heart, particularly outside of Christ. And so what they're doing is these Christians are saying, if you believe that, then you're the worst monster in the world. And then let's say you never heard the threat. You're the worst monster in the world if you believe that. And you never even heard of the Israel of God being Christians. You just read the typical evangelical Zionist books. And then you begin, someone raised a question, you heard it on the radio, someone quoted Galatians 3, and they were talking about it like, wow, that makes some sense, but I never heard that. So you go up to someone in your church, and you're all innocent, and you're kind of wet behind the ears. You've only been a Christian for two or three years, and you say, you know, I was wondering about this. I heard this minister on the radio. He was talking about the Israel of God. And he's quoting out so many Bible verses. I've read over them. But he was saying that we are the continuation of Israel as Christians. And as you're thinking, am I coming on to something? How come I haven't heard this? And you're kind of half excited, and you're wondering. And then they cut you off midstream. They say, no, no, no. You know, that's what they believe all about, you know, when there's strange sounds that come out of that building. And you know, I read Harold Lindsay's book Road to the Holocaust. It's all about that. And they make you feel like you're a piece of dirt for beginning to wonder, could that be true? And so you looking up to them, you're scared off. Oh, I maybe stumbled on something above my head. And you trust them and you shut it down. and you don't go back. You're wondering why there's Christian division. It's because what Roger Williams was saying is about church and state, when you use the sort of state, you're using intimidation and coercion as opposed to appealing as a Berean to say, sit next to me, like the Ethiopian eunuch. And let's look at the scriptures and see if that's true or not. Rather than go through that process, because maybe they're not able to, or they're afraid to, They bully you and it works brethren. Now Roger Williams is talking about the sword and the rack and the torture devices and using the sword of state to coerce faith. This isn't the same thing but the principle is the same. Rather than Bereanship and using the scriptures, it's intimidation, smear and coercion. Oh you can't, okay you're gonna be one of those? Pretty dangerous and then you left. And then we wonder, oh, Lord, why is there so much division in the body of Christ? Lord, how come you haven't answered our prayer? What a bunch of hypocritical prayers. What does God think about prayer sometimes? You know, the Lord sees below the surface of what's really going on. You know, as I'm talking, I'm thinking to myself, you know, I never heard sermons like that growing up. You know that raw, straightforward, when it's said, you say, you don't have to convince me, I actually knew that, but I never thought it that way, but I instantaneously know what you're saying is true because I've seen it. You just don't get that much. Now when I came here, I began to get it immediately. And I thought to myself, there's a new way of conducting yourself in the ministry. Try to, as best you can, with what light God can give, be as utterly as honorable and as honest as possible. And give them what they need to hear the most. And don't worry what people will say about you if you do it. You will discharge your responsibility by preaching the whole counsel of God. Now you've got Calvinists and many Arminians will say, all Calvinists are lost. So you go up to your brethren in the assembly and someone may believe that. You say, you know, I was looking at Romans chapter nine. I'm wondering if election is really true. Oh, you know, election kills soul winning zeal. You know, election, that's just determinism. It's fatalism. And you just become dead. In fact, Calvinists aren't saved. And the game goes on and you turn off that opportunity and never go back again because people you love and respect so strongly warned you and were surprised that you could be so easily taken in. There are Calvinists who say all Arminians are lost. No, there's no way they can make that mistake as young Christians. They should understand a superlapsarian form of Calvinism a week after they're saved. But I think it's kind of true, like I've said, read certain quotes from different reform men in the ages past. And one fellow said, you have to go to the elementary school of repentance and faith in Christ before you can go to the university of election and predestination. I kind of understand what he's driving at. But see, the name-calling and the censorious attacks to intimidate, it's the same as using a sword of steel. It's just a different form of intimidation. And so those that have the easy-believerism crowd, That doesn't think that your life necessarily changes. They say so many of them. I saw it in the sword of the Lord. I saw it with Mr. Wood who wrote the soul winning things. I saw it with Curtis Hudson and they pretty much wrote you off as unconverted legalist if you believed in lordship salvation. And at the time I'm looking at that back then when I was where I was amongst the fundamentalists I thought this is horrible. I got the sword of the Lord all the time. They're all unconverted. See? So if you begin to wonder, is it true that Christ really changes your life? That you really necessarily become a new creature? Oh, you can't ask that question. What do you mean? No, many times people don't. And if you begin to talk that way, you know what? That's what John MacArthur said. You know what? These men are legalists. They're modern day Pharisees. They don't understand the gospel of grace. Well, if you don't understand the gospel of grace, what they're saying is you're unconverted. And you don't want to feel that way. Another door is shut. It's locked. And the key is thrown away. And it isn't necessarily you've been doing this to yourself out of faithlessness to God but maybe in your younger years it's people you're looking up to that have more Bible knowledge, they've memorized more of the Bible than you, they're eloquent with words and they give glowing testimonies and so you look up to them and they shut it down on you and you're just saying well there's probably in humility you can say oh maybe there's something I'm not understanding and I'll defer to him. And we do that and there's a certain prudence to that. But there comes a time when we put away childish things. There comes a time when you quit yourself like men and be strong. There comes a time when you realize, I won't answer before the Lord with my Sunday school teacher at my side. And the Lord isn't going to say to the Sunday school teacher, oh, you're even my preacher. How come he's that way? The Lord can look at you and say, you had my word. Why didn't you listen to it? That's why I taught the series on the sleep of the dead, and I honestly meant this. It wasn't that important to me what you thought the conclusion would be. It was the journey of doing it, which can be painful because, oh, they're making it so complicated. Yeah, I know, we don't want anything complicated. But I want you to know, you can ask the question, if the question is being derived from scripture. In other words, I don't know how to put these scriptures together. And my point would be, well, then just don't shut down the argument and use a bullying tactic. Say, well, you can't believe that. That's crazy, because over here. But yeah, but what about over here? Well, I don't know, but you got over here. And I'm used to quoting these verses. No, wrong. That's the point of Clavel, as far as I'm concerned. Not that we can believe any wind of doctrine, but we have to be open to everything God has said in his word and weigh it according to the word. Until we can make the equation come out, then we tread lightly and carefully and with humility. What is better to do than that? Christians need to be retrained on how to approach their faith. This example here historically is such perfect proof of it. Look at verse eight. Wherefore, at that time certain Chaldeans came near and accused the Jews. They spake and said to the king Nebuchadnezzar, O king, live forever. Buttermilk. Like the lawyer, the Jews hired to go argue against Paul. Remember him doing the same thing Wednesday nights. Thou, O King, verse 10, hast made a decree that every man that shall hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of music, shall fall down and worship the golden image. That was the command. And whoso falleth not down and worshipeth, that he should be cast in the midst of a burning fiery furnace. Yep, that's the law. There are certain Jews whom thou hast set over the affairs of the province of Babylon. And we didn't like that. We thought that should be our job. But anyway, you've got these Jews that you've given high positions to. You know who they are. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. These men, O king, have not regarded thee. They serve not thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up. Turned them in. I was gonna say rat finks, but you know, let's keep it up here, you know, dirty rat finks. Then Nebuchadnezzar in his rage and fury. See, now when you give the state the sword and then make them religious heads and have them have the power to command, they don't like it when you cross them. And that's true with a little tiny town official. that comes to your property and say, you know, you're not supposed to be burning leaves in today. Do you have a permit for that fireplace outside? I'll go get my clipboard, you'll see. Now, if it happens at that level, give them a sword to enforce religious conviction of a state religion. There's no end to it. It's the history of the world is what William said. Nebuchadnezzar, in his rage and fury, commanded to bring Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. Then they brought these men before the king. Nebuchadnezzar spake and said unto them, Is it true, O Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, do not ye serve my gods, nor worship the golden image that I have set up? Now, if ye be ready, that at what time ye hear the sound from here on in, I'll let bygones be bygones, But what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of music, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made? Well, but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into a midst of a burning fiery furnace. And who is that God that shall deliver you out of my hands? Shadrach, verse 16, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter. If it be so, our God, whom we serve, is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace. And he will deliver us out of thine hand, O King. But if not, be it known unto thee, O King, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up. Here we have the teaching of Williams, the Christian liberty of his soul, the liberty of a man's soul, soul liberty. They said to the king, we're not careful to answer thee. They don't mean by that, oh, we don't really care how we address thee. We don't think much of thee. That's not what they meant. We are not careful to answer thee. In other words, our obligation To us is obvious, is what they're saying to the king. And it doesn't require of us subtlety of speech or sophistication of answer to dance around, to survive. No, no, for us it's a simple matter. We don't have to think about how we'll phrase this to you. The matter, our obligation is clear is what they're saying. We're not careful to answer you. They don't mean any disrespect for that. They just mean they know what their conviction is. And in verse 17, if it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace. They had great faith. And then look what they said, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. And where did that come from? Where do they have that assurance? I don't know. Maybe the Lord revealed it to them or it's just a conviction that they had. But then they said in verse 18, but if not, if the Lord won't deliver us, and we die in that furnace. Be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up." In other words, what they said is we ought to obey God rather than men. In other words, what they said is what Roger Williams was teaching was right and John Cotton was wrong. What they were saying is that God is the Lord of our conscience, not the state. The state has no business coming between our conscience and God. God convicts our conscience through His Word. The state doesn't have anything to do with that. God doesn't work through the state to convict our conscience. God uses the state to punish evildoers. There is a function to state, but your function is not to be a Lord over our conscience. God is the Lord over our conscience and he will judge us. So no, it doesn't matter what your laws are and what you say. It doesn't matter how big a sword you threaten us with. We ought to obey God rather than men. Our conscience has been formed. and nourished by God's word, and the state has no authority. And that's why in Romans chapter 14, Paul says, if the man eats that meat offered to idols against his conscience, and it's okay, Paul finished his teaching, it's okay to eat meat offered to idols, as long as you're not doing it as an act of idolatry, and you set that meat apart with blessing and thanksgiving, The idols are dead. They can't make evil the meat. So you're actually at liberty to do that. But if you try and convince some other Christian who thinks it's wrong to do that, and you get him to eat that meat, but he eats it before he's really convinced. He's eating it thinking, this could be wrong, but I'll eat it anyway because this guy's pressuring me. You've caused that man to sin against his conscience. And for him, it is sin. Because if he thinks he's disobeying me and he goes ahead and does it anyway, he's guilty even though the thing was okay. Which again shows us God is looking at the conscience. You bring the sort of state into it, brethren, it becomes obvious what will happen. And history proves it. Now, one last question. Someone can ask, well, then why is it right for the king of Israel to wield a sword in religious matters? In Old Testament Israel, they use the sword. They used the sword to enforce doctrine and to enforce the Mosaic law and religious practice. If it's immoral for Roger Williams to do that in Rhode Island, to wield the sword of state to enforce spiritual principle, how could it be right and moral for Moses to do it with the children of Israel? Because even though it's a true religion, you're still coercing people and you could be making them hypocrites. Why is it right for him? That's a contradiction. How could it be moral here, immoral in Rhode Island or in any other place? Well, here's the simple answer to that question. Because Old Testament Israel, as a nation, was God's nation. He owned it. His name was on it. He called them as a nation. He entered into them. He entered in a covenant with them as a people and as a nation. That was never true of any nation before Old Testament Israel. It has not been true of any nation since the passing, any physical nation, political entity in this world since the passing of Old Covenant Israel in 70 AD. We may say there are nations that have been Christianized, that have been founded on Christian principles by men. That's certainly true of the United States. But that doesn't make it the same as being the nation of God called as such by him, ordained as such and he establishes the laws and rules because they're his. God has one nation and that nation he gave the name Israel. And old covenant Israel was a physical entity, a physical nation. And we know that it served as a type of something more wonderful to come, that's what types are. And it stood as a type of that nation Israel that would exist under the new covenant. The old was the shadow. And the new is the fulfillment of the shadow. The old is pointing to the better that is coming. The better has arrived. God's not had two nations. He's had one nation. That nation goes by the name of Israel. They're the Israel of God. Always have been, always will be. It had a founding promise, which was its founding principle. That was the promise made to Abraham. That was true for Israel under the Old Covenant, and it's true for Israel under the New Covenant. Israel under the New Covenant is based on that promise God made to Abraham, which Paul said was the gospel. The gospel was preached unto Abraham, saying, And thee shall all nations of the world be blessed. That's the promise made to Abraham. It is the gospel. One nation, one foundation, founding principle, the promise made to Abraham. And who are its citizens? Well, that would be the seed of Abraham. The promise was made to Abraham and his seed. That's its founding principle. Its fulfillment is in the seed of Abraham. They are the citizens of that nation. Old covenant Israel was constituted of the descendants of Abraham. The physical nation was made up of the physical descendants from Abraham. But that was a type to yield to the spiritual, the more excellent, the more powerful, the more beautiful, the everlasting. Israel that was founded by God, Israel under the new covenant built on the promise made to Abraham and his seed. And we're told the New Testament Abraham's seed is Christ and the citizens of that nation are the seed of Abraham and those that are in Christ are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. And the borders of Israel under the old covenant was where God dwelt. God dwelt in Jerusalem. Israel had specific borders and God dwelt amongst his people. Now that the type has passed away and Israel continues and receives its fulfillment under the new covenant, where does God dwell now? Same thing. He dwells amongst his people. Thing is now we're not a physical nation. And we come from America and South America and England and Africa, and we're spread all over the world. God dwells where his people are and where his temple is and where is God's temple. And where does God dwell now under the new covenant? Well, God dwells in the new Jerusalem. He dwelled in Jerusalem under the old covenant. He dwelled in the new Jerusalem under the new covenant. He dwells amongst the people of God, his people, his nation, the Israel of God. So we can conclude and say this, Roger Williams was right and John Cotton was wrong. The answer to the question of whether church and state should be mixed as the Dominionists claim, the answer to that question lies in your understanding of the identification of who the true Israel of God today is. It isn't a physical nation state. and no physical nation state has any right to that name, and that includes the Zionist state in the Middle East. They're not Israel, and neither is Boston, neither is America. But believers in Christ, like William said, is the nation still governed by a sword? Yeah, but it's the sword under the new covenant. It's the sword of the spirit. It's administered in the assemblies, which is the body of Christ. It's perfect in that regard. God has designed that which is perfect. We make it imperfect because we have imperfections. It's not a national state. It's the body of Christ, the seat of Abraham. And we should not mix the church and state, lest we turn the garden of God, the garden of the church, into a wilderness. And we don't want to do that to that beautiful creation that God made. We have to struggle enough to keep it and tend that garden ourselves. Without the world coming in, we still have troubles because of ourselves. We don't need the world giving us more trouble. Let's bow our heads in prayer. Heavenly Father, we thank thee for your blessings and for the wisdom that you gave us in sending the pilgrims to this land, and even the Puritans, which did bring light and the truth and the gospel, but there were mountains to overcome. And we thank thee for men like Roger Williams, who we would judge and we say it often, seemed to receive the counsel that he never heard with his own ears from John Robinson, saying that there's more light and more truth to break forth from thy holy word. And Williams brought that light, and we thank thee that he established this place, Rhode Island, on a doctrine that we here at Clayville have taught for so long. We are the Israel of God, your holy nation, because we're in Christ, the Messiah of Israel. And He wields the sword, that spiritual sword. He disciplines His children. He chastises us. Not pagan magistrates, as John Cotton imagined, could be prudent. We commend ourselves to thee and thy rule. Rule over us, Lord. Direct our paths. Forgive us. Chasten us. Exhort us. Lift us up. Cast us down. Have your way. We pray in Jesus' name. Amen.