walking wounded. Let's get started here. This week we're going to cover the rapture. We covered the broad brush tribulation last time. We're going to touch on that again, but really we want to Go ahead and look at the rapture and see how all this fits together. Because we know that with the rapture, we know it is a event specifically talked about in Scripture, but the timing of it is not specifically addressed anywhere in Scripture. So how do we put it in a time frame? Well, we'll look at that. The rapture, 1 Thessalonians chapter 4, verses 13 through 18. We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are loved, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord." Therefore, encourage one another with these words. This is one of the most definitive descriptions of the rapture. Now, we could actually spend a month just on this passage alone, dissecting it, trying to understand everything it's telling us. This is about as much time as we're going to devote to it. And we'll go to the next definitive passage, and that's in 1 Corinthians chapter 15, verses 50 through 55. I tell you this, brothers, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet, for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must be put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on the immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written, death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting? So thus, we see that the rapture is where we make the transition from being mortal to being immortal. from being in the sinful body to being in a body without sin. It is the completion of our salvation. Remember the sealing or the interchange is just the first fruit of it, but we still have the perishable body. Remember this age, this dispensation, we call it the dispensation of, Okay, I just told you. First fruits. I never ask you a question, I haven't told you the answers. It is first fruits. And I call it that for a variety of reasons. This is one of them. It's because our salvation is part. We only get part of it right now. That's the inner nature, the new creation on the inside. 2 Corinthians chapter 5, 17. So this is two very detailed, complete discussions of this event that has no name in scripture. But through time, we have called it the rapture. Just so you know, if you do a search on rapture, you won't find it there, because it's not there. So the rapture is not really the dispute. Let me drop this down. You cannot dispute the rapture unless you're going to allegorize it, which they do. and explain it a way to mean something other than Christ coming back as an actual event. So you can make this say anything you want to when you allegorize it, but that is not how we approach it. We approach it from the normative hermeneutical position that we let scripture speak for itself. Prophetic language is prophetic language, poetry is poetry, history is history, so on and so forth. So everyone who agrees with the rapture of the church will have no argument about what actually occurs at the rapture. The discussion is about timing. We know that the dead saints in Christ will arise, the living saints will also arise to meet Him in the air, and they will all be changed, all will receive flesh and bone bodies. It's just a little thingy that I learned early on. Right now, we have bodies of flesh and blood. When Christ referred to his new body, when the disciples met him, he referred to it as flesh and bone. Remember, his blood was poured out, so he did not have blood. He had poured it out on the altar up in heaven. Thus, this is just my technical shorthand for saying these are our new bodies. So the real dispute is the timing of the rapture. And there are three major views concerning timing. And they're very complicated, pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib. Then there's the minority view that they've popularized in books and stuff, the pre-wrath, whatever that means. And we'll look at that one too. See, it's all about the timing, and it's all about the timing around the tribulation. So how many people in here are post-trib? Mid-trib? Pre-wrath? We've got a sneaky guy in the back of the classroom. And pre-trip. I think we are. I want to be there because I don't want to be there. You know, I was having that discussion earlier today. Hopefully at the end of the day you'll have a better understanding as to why have chosen a pre-trib and you can think it through and develop your own thoughts on it, but there is no scripture, there's absolutely no scripture that links it to timing. I was taught Revelation 4 chapter 1, when the voice from heaven called John up into heaven that was a symbol of the rapture of the church, there's nothing that links that with that. And so to say that means that you're putting a meaning into scripture that you can't support. And we want to make sure that if we're going to look at the logical fallacies of others, that we're not committing them ourselves to defend our position. Because that makes us just as wrong as those we're looking at. And we don't want to fall into that trap. So we will discuss each major view from the perspective of its required worldview. And hopefully without creating a straw man argument. You know saying it's something that's easily defeatable and push over where we're not truly representing it And we're gonna start just in the order I gave it before This is a map of the Great Tribulation that we covered in some broad brush detail last Sunday. Now, once again, not everyone agrees with this layout. You have the seals, the trumpets, and the vials in this order. Some of them claim they're cyclic. Thus, the seals, the bowl, the vials overlay the trumpets, the trumpets and vials overlay the seals, and they're all happening simultaneously in a cyclic manner. That's how some people analyze it, but really not going to look at it from that perspective. But we want to recall those events so that we understand where we're at. And so the tribulation begins, that's where the pre-trib would happen. Christ returns, the post-trib happens just before that. And the mid-trib happens, my gosh, midway, three and a half years. And the pre-wrath kind of drifts along in here someplace. Because depending on whom you read and how they define pre-wrath will determine where they put it. So we'll start with the post-tribulation rapture and it occurs, like I should, it occurs at the end of the tribulation. And those raptured meet Christ in the air as he returns to set up his kingdom, literal interpretation. And so what you really end up with here, you got Luke. Here at the end, everyone's rising up to meet Christ in the air as he returns and then he comes back down, with him. Anyone have a problem with that? I do. I do, I do, I do. I have a problem with that. And we don't even have to go to scripture much to look at the problem of it. it violates the law of non-contradiction and this is untenable with the millennial kingdom. So here's the problem, if all the saints are raptured up and they receive their new bodies which we saw earlier they do, the perishable becomes imperishable, the moral becomes immortality, they thus are beyond the reach of sin, right? So they, all who are raptured up, which is everyone who has, it has to be everyone who's saved at the end of the tribulation, comes up and meets Christ in the air, comes back with him. What happens to all the lost at the end of the tribulation? Sheep, goats, sheep, goats, sheep, goats. Yeah, they go directly to hell. So I'm gonna ask you now, who goes into the millennial kingdom? Because those who are Now, in mortal, do not procreate. You can't sin. Therefore, who is rebelling at the end of the tribulation? Because you've taken all the sinners and you've booted them out, there's nobody left. There's either saved or sinners. Sinners have already gone to hell, saved have already under the post-trib, have already met Christ in the air and come back. It makes the millennial kingdom superfluous. In other words, there is none. Even though they say there is, there can't be. They've contradicted themselves because of their position. Because there's no one on earth to go into it. So the post-trib rapture is tenable only if there is no millennial kingdom. So the post-trib is actually linked with the amillenniast. Now in their writings and stuff, they're going to talk about a millennial kingdom. They're going to talk about, but they can't get beyond the truth of the scripture. If you're going to use the normative hermeneutic approach, which we say we do, then there's only two types of people. Those who are saved, those who are lost. Those who are saved, meet Christ in the air. Those who are lost never meet Christ at all. They go to that other place. And they don't get back out except once to go to that worse place. And there's no heaven on earth in the Millennial Kingdom when they do that. So the problem you have is on Millennials you really don't hold to a rapture. Because what's the point? Christ comes, it ends, boom. Everyone is divided up. And so we see that the post-trib, upon examination, just on the basis of it, the face of it, literally falls apart. What do the post-tribbers do with the Whitestone government? Whitestone. The Whitestone government, the books are open. And the ones that are not in the Book of Life are judged by what happens to them. I have a clue, but that's really not pertinent to our views of the rapture. That's all at the end time. Like the Amillennius, there is a white throne judgment in which those who stand before, unfortunately with the Amillennius, they also are forced to be universalists. They may deny it, but they're forced to be universalist. So everyone gets saved. And so the post-tribs, whether they like it or not, are going to end up falling into that same camp, in which no one spends eternity in hell, which is kind of the position of the Catholic Church and the others. That's why they had purgatory, because everyone gets to go to heaven eventually. Yeah, temporary for a long time. Mid-Trib Rapture. This physician believes the church is taken out with the coming of the Antichrist, declaring himself to be God in the temple. So it occurs right here as we see on this three and a half year mark where the Antichrist comes in, and says, hey, I am the spirit guide, I am the one you've been waiting for, and declares himself, and it's obvious, and everyone goes running amok, and the persecution really begins there. Before here, some people call this, the first three and a half years, just the tribulation, and the last three and a half years to be the great tribulation. That's why they do that, because the persecution really kicks into high gear then. So here's the mid-trippers, and this is their position. Anyone like that position? Where you only get to go through part of it? I want to know who was getting persecuted at the church's leaving at 3 and a half? The same people that are going to get persecuted with the pre-trib rapture. Because if the church in, well, we'll get to that. So the mid-trib rapture, the rationale is God has not destined us for wrath. And that's in 1 Thessalonians chapter 5, verses 9 through 10. And it's true, God has not destined us to wrath. course you got to kind of take it out of context to make it fit here into the rapture issue because that's not what he's talking about in chapter 5. He's not talking about the rapture, he's talking about Christians not having to suffer under God's wrath for sin because they've been forgiven and so on and so forth. But to distance from wrath but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him. And so they have to read this into their interpretation to be able to say okay after that first three and a half years it's just tough going but you know the church has to go through persecution because it's good for the church to do that. So the rationale is the church is the bride of Christ, Christ will not part his wrath on his church, the church must be purified with some tribulation, and the great tribulation does not begin until the halfway point, or somewhere thereabouts. Now the problem is, what's missing? Scripture. Where'd they get that from? Why does the church have to go through purification? And what church are we talking about? We're talking about the Church of Rheinbeck, the Church of Ephesus. Are we talking about the Church, which is composed only of born-again Christians down through history since the beginning of the first fruits, which is, of course, always purified because the lost never get in it, and they're already dead and beyond sin. Therefore, what do they need to be purified of unless they're in purgatory? You see where you get into problems here? Who determines the level of purification? There's no scripture that discusses it. Now, there is discussion of the Church on Earth. The Church is on Earth. Undergoing persecution, absolutely. That's inherent in those letters of Revelation. It's inherent in the writings of Paul. That yes, you will undergo tribulation. You will undergo persecution because the world hates you. The world will always hate you. If you are at peace with the world, you're probably in the wrong church. Because the church will, the world will always hate the truth. Christ is very clear on that. Paul was very clear on that. The examples in the Old Testament are very clear on that. Is that when you're walking in the truth, the world will hate you. Because walking in the truth and it proves that they're wrong. Exactly. And saying that the Great Tribulation does not begin until that three and a half year mark, there is no scripture that says that. Yes, persecution gets worse, but there's no scripture that says that that is where the Great Tribulation begins. So we see that they've kind of come up with this nice package, but when you look at it in light of scripture, it tends to fall apart. just like with the post-trip. There's no consistent hermeneutical interpretation. The place is the rapture at the midpoint, and we talked through all this. But here is what they fall back to. And I was just reading a book, and I'll show it to you in a little bit. What's this word? Fairness. What's it mean? And where do you find fairness defined in the scripture? So how can you use this to justify your viewpoint when you cannot define it consistently with the scriptures? Because what is fair? You know what I think is fair? Nope. What I think is fair is that everything goes right for me and I don't have any problems and I never die and always have money. That's fair. Because I stubbed my toe and hurt, that's not really fair and God doesn't love me and we're having problems that day in my prayer life. You see, when you fall into this trap politicians want you to fall into this one. Once you start using words you can't define, or that are not defined, but you agree with them, you have to go wherever they take you. And so this violates the very first law of logic, the law of identity. You have to define your terms, and they don't. That's got to be fair. And there's some people in this room that think I'm not fair when we're having discussions. I won't name them, but you just heard them. But I'm always fair. To thy own self be fair, that's right. Or true or something. So this is an ad hominem attack. Found this on the internet and it's quite common to use. It's a felicious argument. The gal here is holding up a sign saying the rapture is coming and says see we don't have to worry about the environment because we're all going to ascend in the rapture. We don't have to worry about the national debt. We don't have to worry about sustainable energy, overpopulation, global warming. It'll all be taken care of in the rapture. So what a relief. I'll go home and take a nap. Now what's implied here? What's implied here is that pre-Trib, pre-Millennial Christians don't care about the earth. They'll just burn it up. We don't care. Use up all the gas. Use up all this. Use up all that. Burn it up. Create pollution. Because in the interim, we're either going to die, or God's going to call us out, and it doesn't matter. And who's ever left to be stuck holding the bird, the bill? But really, does that what the Bible teach? No, it says you are to be good stewards right from the very beginning. You are to take care of it. But are you to take care of it as somebody else defines it for you? Because we've already determined that global warming is not in fact occurring. Overpopulation is not in fact the issue, it's the distribution of food products that are already available that is the real problem. And national debt, we understand that, too. So what this is, this is all ad hominem attack against you, who are pre-Tribbers, saying you don't care anything about what's going on around you, because you expect to bail. Is this unfair? Well, you know, churches I was in, Fundamental Baptist, people were saying, yeah, I can run up thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars of debt because the rapture happens. I don't have to pay it off. The reply to them was, and when's that event happening again? Because if it's not happening on your schedule, you're in a lot of trouble. So this rapture position, I call this the add-on, it's really the pre-wrath, has spawned yet another rapture viewpoint, the pre-wrath view, similar to mid-trib but disagrees with what constitutes the start of the wrath period. In both of these, mid-trib and pre-wrath are predicated on the interpretation of Matthew chapter 24 and 25. And usually when you get into problems understanding the tribulation and the rapture and these things, it's usually because you're not understanding these chapters. Because almost everybody runs to these chapters to support their viewpoint. You have to understand who Christ is talking to. He's answering a question. He's answering a question from a specific individual with a specific worldview, with a specific intent, and thus he's answering that question. He's not standing up giving a recitation on general eschatology. He's talking to Jews, about Jews, about what's going to happen with the Jews in this event, this seven-year-long event. Which they understand, because they know the book of Daniel. They know about the weeks and all that. If he was talking about Gentiles, he'd have to go back to Daniel and start over, because most Gentiles never heard of any of this. So post and mid-trib were rapture flaws. They see only the church benefiting. In other words, they have an incorrect view of the bride of Christ. What is the bride of Christ? And where can you point to scripture about it? Well, the church is called the Bride of Christ in the New Testament. No disputing that. Absolutely not. But when we get to Revelation 21, when the new Jerusalem comes down from heaven, what is she called? Bride of Christ. So you take your cue. She's called the bride of Christ, so is Christ running a harem? So you got two brides, then you got the Jews, you got to account for them, is that a third bride? How about if the church is the first fruits, and I think Paul talks about that in Romans 9, 10, and 11, that we are the first fruits while the Jews are being driven to extreme wrath because of what God is blessing us with, that we are indeed the first fruit of this entity called the Bride of Christ, which is another reason I call this dispensation the dispensation of first fruits. Because that's what it is. It's the beginnings, but it's not the totality. Thus the Bride of Christ will end up being everybody who's ever accepted God's gracious gift of salvation, from Adam all the way down to the very last person. So you have those who are pre-law, Those in the law and us who are post-law, all going to be in this Bride of Christ. But it did not begin to occur until the New Covenant. And the New Covenant could not begin until Christ came, died, and rose again. Thus the church is receiving the new covenant, but we're not going to be the only ones to receive it. We can't leave out the Jews. Otherwise, we have to take those three chapters of Romans and throw them away, or interpret them in an allegorical manner. And both these positions see God only as punishing people for sin. When you beat your kids, does it mean they'll never do wrong again? No. At least somebody beats their kids. That's right. And if you beat them harder, does that mean they'll be extra careful not to do wrong again? Never worked for me, just so you know. Because my dad did beat hard, and he beat harder every time, and it still didn't work. God is not just beating. He's really not beating during this tribulation time period. He's doing something else. If you're fixated on the punishment, you're missing the whole point of the tribulation. Thus, the rapture occurs. Now, for the pre-tribbers, which everyone here says they are one, It occurs right here. Rapture. This is after the cross. This is the first fruits. We'll ignore that church age thingamajig. Though, yes, the church is occurring during this whole time period. Then you have the rapture of the church. Ignore this, because that's felicious. You have your tribulation time period. Then you have the return. Now the problem people have with this, well first of all we have to use the normative hermeneutical interpretation methodology. we see God fulfilling his promises to Israel consistent with the Old and New Testaments. If the Jews are not coming back, if God is not going to deal with them, if we've made this up because we haven't interpreted the scriptures correctly, then there's no point for a millennial kingdom because there's no point for us to go into it, we've already been changed and We're not going to benefit from it. We've already benefited all we're going to benefit. Once you get your sin resolved and you become immortal, what else do you need? You already have a relationship with Christ. You're going to be in an intimate relationship with Christ. What else do you need? And about what happens in the new earth, he's not told us. So, we can't throw out Israel. which is what almost all the other positions do as we discuss. So God's wrath, this period that we call the Great Tribulation, this quote unquote wrath, is nothing more than God allowing mankind to enjoy the fruits of what they say they want. So. In those areas, let's take parts of America, in those cities that have great, great tight control, like on guns and on rent control. Parking. Yeah, especially parking. You have a lot more violent crime. So the more man controls, the more man tries to achieve his goals, the more his sin is expressed, the more you see degradation and violence. So is it wrath? Or is it God saying, here, Romans 1, 18 through 32, they gave up the knowledge, the truth of God to sin. And God said, have a good day. Let me know when you're tired of it. He gave them up so they could understand their sin. That's what's happening in the Great Tribulation. So God limits this to prevent the complete destruction of all mankind. Kind of like the Tower of Babel. God came down and intervened to prevent the wholesale degradation of mankind at that one point in time. Now, as the Antichrist gathers his forces, as they meet to determine who gets to control this ball of mud, Because whoever wins is setting up the one world government again, because it's not there yet. Christ comes back to prevent it. So this is almost like the Tower of Babel all over again, only a lot more violent. And God emphasizes the total depravity of man who rejects God's mercy and long suffering. See, then you no longer have to debate it. that you go to San Francisco and watch a gay rights parade, you don't have to debate the total depravity of man. Especially if you hold up a sign that says, God loves you, because they'll be whooping you. Like a tied up goat, hard. And the cops will stand there and arrest you because you started a riot. I have a videotape of that, by the way. There was a guy who had a church there who did it, and they firebombed his house. Almost killed him. So God is remolding the earth as he did in the cataclysm. This is evolution in reverse. This time for all to see this rejection of evolution. All mountains and islands disappear since Zion, like we talked about before. And God is preparing for the millennial kingdom and return to pre-flood conditions. In other words, they can stand there and say, this never happened. And then, my gosh, it's happening. Rocks fall on us. Hide us from God. So the church comes back with Christ during his perusa at the end of the Great Tribulation. Those who accepted Christ and his people enter the Millennial Kingdom. Those who rejected Jesus and his people are raptured into hell. Those would be the goats. The other would be the sheep in Christ's parable there. And those going to hell, of course, miss the kingdom. This is a common objection to the pre-trib rapture view, because the Bible talks about how many comings of Christ. Oh, you're saying only one. Well, there you go. It's right up there for you. Only one. But does our view require two returns? Well, it depends how you define return. So if he never touches the earth the first time, is that truly a return? That's one thought about it. But let's look at something else. Are there any other examples in scripture where God talks about return, but it's not clearly defined? I mean, of course. In Luke, chapter four, verses 16 through 21, Christ is in the synagogue in Nazareth, and they ask him to read out of the book of Isaiah, and he asked for the scroll, and he gets it. In Isaiah 61, verses one through two, And he stops in mid-sentence there. When he reads that, he sits down and says, today, this has been fulfilled in your eyes. Now, we want to go there. What is this? 61 what? The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me because the Lord has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted and reclaim liberty to the captives in the opening of the prison to those who are bound, to reclaim the year of the Lord's favor. And he stops and he sits down. But he left off in the day of vengeance of our God to comfort all who moaned." So on and so forth. He sat down because his first coming was to comfort. His second coming, he's not going to be quite so comforting. But notice it's in mid-sentence. In fact, that is the problem throughout the entire Old Testament prophecy, is that when they talk about their Messiah, when they talk about God coming, they don't clearly differentiate between first coming and second coming. That's why Sadducees and the Pharisees and all that really had great trouble with Jesus saying, I'm God. First of all, the Messiah, in their view, was not God. And second, there weren't two comings. And they couldn't explain some of those passages, so they kind of skipped over them, not like any of us do that. And so we see here that there are two comings. Christ told us this. He told us this after he rose from the dead, too. And Paul. In Hebrews, in Revelation, it talks about another coming. So there are two comings, but they're not clearly differentiated. So this lays the pattern for the pre-trib rapture view. So 1 Thessalonians talks of Jesus meeting his saints there, but does not link this with the Second Advent. When he returns in the Second Advent with his church, this does not negate his coming for his church earlier to judge them at the Bema seat. And that's what it says in the Greek, Bema. That is where the governor of the city sat down and heard complaints. Or ignored complaints while the crowd beat the trash out of you. Because you deserved it. which happened in the book of Acts once or twice. Not to Paul, but to those who were causing a problem. It does not negate any of this. So this is why I believe that the pre-trib rapture of the church is consistent with a dispensational premillennialism requiring the millennial kingdom. It rewards those who are spiritual, that's the Jews and Gentiles, who gather with Christ at Jerusalem, while those who are not spiritual, and there'd be a lot more of them, Rejecting Christ, both when Satan's chained and when he's not chained, they come around, they surround Jerusalem seeking to destroy it when God ends everything. This is a requirement if we're going to be consistent with our dispensational viewpoint, that Satan is setting his defense and we are proving his defense. Because Satan's chained through most of this, and yet sin is building up and abounding and abounding more, because people who are flesh and blood people are producing what? Flesh and blood sinners. You prolific little people, you. And that's what happens. I mean, I'd like to say my son was perfect, but that'd be about five seconds too long. He's not. I thought I was once, but somebody told me I wasn't. Well, you have to gain strength from somewhere. You might as well be from yourself. I like that. So this is what, if you have any doubts at all, what flesh and blood produces, look at your children. Because when you look at your children, they're little mirrors into you, because guess where they learned it from? They didn't make it up on their own, they got it from watching Mommy and Daddy. That's what they do. I can improve on that, I can make it better. And they do. So this is why I am a pre-tribalationist, dispensationalist, pre-millennialist, pre-trib and all that stuff. It's because it's the only viewpoint that is consistent with the normative hermeneutical approach. Any other viewpoint, you must start becoming creative. Now, I post these online and I hope that you have a look back and listen to it and it makes more sense when you hear it over and over again. Because what we don't want to do is say, I am this or I am this because I hope, or because I think, or because of any other viewpoint, mainly because you just don't want to go into the Great Tribulation. I can't say I want to sign up for it first, but you know some days you're already there. It's just not labeled that way. And we've all had those days, those periods in our life. Sometimes it lasts for years. So it's not like you're missing anything. God will deal with you as he will deal with you in order to address you, to grow you, to develop you by revealing your sinfulness. the inadequacy of your strength so that you can cling more tightly to Him. And I hate those times. I like them afterwards, I don't like them when I go through them, especially this past week. So it's not like you're missing anything. You're not. But he deals with us as with sons and daughters, not like we were strangers. Sparheads. Dear Heavenly Father, once again we thank you on your word. Help us, Lord, to be pliable to your word, that we go and search it out, we study it out. Each one here determined in their own hearts the truth of the scriptures, that which they Believe that they can follow. As you give them guidance, as your Holy Spirit teaches each one of us at our own level of understanding, because that's what you promised in 1 Corinthians 2, the Holy Spirit will teach us. No one is too old, too young, too smart, too dumb for the Holy Spirit to teach us. And help us to be pliant enough to be taught. In Christ's name, amen.