Before I get into this, I want you to look at me. I'm going to smile at you because this may be the last time. And so you may need after a while to just to breathe a little bit to remember what I, the smile right here. So get it pictured in your mind right now because I got a few things I want to say. Father help us now. I want to be a help. You know I do. I really do. And it seems like everybody's confused. Seems like, dear Lord, when I get off at the airport, before we get in the car, somebody says, is it okay for Christians to be in politics? Seemed like before we, first question that's asked in the question-answer sessions in most of the places I preach now, Brother Howells, how about cooperating in this thing or that thing? And everything, everybody's so confused. And I pray tonight you'd give us some sanity as we Try to decide just exactly what should make us sound the battle cry. Help us not to fight when the scripture says not to fight. Help us not to fight when the spoils do not warrant it. But help us to be willing to fight. And help us to stay in the fight as long as we're supposed to. Help us to be soldiers of the cross. and bless us now, Holy Spirit. Amen. In Nehemiah, Nehemiah, or if you're from Texas, Nehemiah. In Nehemiah chapter number 4 and verse number 17. Now I've got enough to say to where I don't have to start off loud. I got a heap of places in here where I can get a little loud. It's sort of like that ship Ahoy. I can sort of talk low a little while because there's some rough seas coming up after a while. I know they're coming, and so there's not much need in trying to fight the waves early. Nehemiah chapter 4, verse 17. Nehemiah, as you know, I want you to hinge on every word because really what I say tonight is life or death. I don't mean that I'm the answer, life or death, but I believe whether I have the answer or not, whether we find the answer or not is going to determine if there's a fundamentalism in the next generation. The answer about the things I'm going to talk about tonight. Now, you may not think I have the answer, but if I don't have the answer, somebody's got to find the answer to these questions, or fundamentalism is going to split right down the middle. And we've got to look at it. I don't want to. Good night. I'm not a, by nature, I'm not a fighter. I'll be honest, I'd rather be in the Guinness Book of Records than the Fox's Book of Martyrs. I just don't have any real, you know, I just never have thought my head looked good on a platter. There's so many prettier faces in mind that could look good on a platter, but I just never have felt like I want to be served up as the next John the Baptist. But I believe this. Though I don't like to fight, don't want to fight. I think a guy's a coward if he's not willing to fight. And so the question is, when should we fight? When should we fight? In Nehemiah, they're building a wall, rebuilding the wall around the city of Jerusalem. In verse 17 of chapter 4 it says, They which builded on the wall, and they that bear burdens with those that laid it, every one with one of his hands wrought in the work, and with the other hand held a weapon. Brother Moffat up here has a sword and a trowel he's going to put in his hands. one in one hand and one in the other. He's going to stand up over here and there's the wall right over there beside that trumpet. He's going to move that trumpet. There's the wall. That wall has been laid thus far so he's got a trowel in his hand and he's got a sword by his side. Now notice it says that everyone with one of his hands wrought in the work and the other hand held a weapon. Notice now. For the builders, everyone, don't do, until I tell you to do something, don't do it. Now, I'm the director of this show, and if you don't do it right, you are expendable. There are others on this platform here with an IQ just as good as yours. And I was looking for a bus man when I found you. And don't forget that smile a while ago, because you may never see it again. For the builders, everyone had his sword girded by his side, and so builded. Okay, now then, he's got his sword in one hand, he's left-handed, so he's got his trowel in the other hand, and he's going to build a wall right now. And he's laying the brick on the wall, and look, while he's working over there, look at the last part of verse 18. And he that sounded upon the trumpet was by me. Now over here, stand up right here, Brother Steve Clute. And there he is, right beside me. Now the plan is this. There are some enemies trying to destroy and defeat the building of the wall. So the truth is, this man is not a fighter. He's a what? He's a builder. First and foremost, he's a builder. He's not surrendered to fight, he's surrendered to build. But, if somebody decides they're going to stop his building, or hinder his building, then he puts down his track, well first is, somebody comes and tries to hinder his building, and the trumpet blows. And it keeps on blowing until I tell it to quit. And when the trumpet blows, he puts down his trowel and And you can report to the pay window tomorrow morning at 8 o'clock. So we'll start again. Mr. Colston over here is building a wall. Mr. Colston is going to obey me because he likes to eat. So he keeps on building a wall. All of a sudden, the enemy approaches, and he's going to try to keep him building a wall, and so the trumpet blows. While the trumpet's blowing, Mr. Colston puts down his trowel, he gets up his sword, and he gets ready to fight. And as the enemy comes, he fights. The enemy sees his sword, and they... While he fights, he dances a little bit. You may have noticed that. And long thrust. Ooh, short thrust. And then, now that the enemy has gone back, he puts down his sword and he takes up his trowel. Now, is he a builder or a fighter? He's a builder. He's not a fighter. He's a builder. Does he want to fight or want to build? He wants to build. So he builds. And all of a sudden, while he's building, the enemy approaches again. He picks up his sword and begins to fight. Then the battle is over. He puts down. Heads have rolled for two reasons, Brother Colston. Heads have rolled because they went ahead on their own, and other heads have rolled because they stole the show from the manufacturers. So he keeps on building. And he lays bricks, and he builds, and he's building the wall. All right, just have a seat there brethren, and I want you to look at just a few things. The Bible says that with one hand he held a weapon, the other hand he held a sword. Now the question, the answer is this. Is it wrong for a Christian to be in politics? Is it wrong for the Christian Lay down his sword and fight for his freedom. No, it's not wrong. Not at all. Nothing wrong with it at all. Now, the Christian shouldn't want to fight. But when, for example, the mayor of Hammond and I are good friends, we couldn't want for a better relationship than we have together. And he comes to church here occasionally. He's a Catholic, but he's a friendly, gracious man. He loves me. I love him. And I pray for him every day. I mean that. I pray for him every day. He has a grandson that has leukemia. If not a day passes in my life, I don't pray for the mayor of our city and his grandson, and the mayor's broken heart about his grandson. And often the mayor will just come in the service here without any reason at all, sit down over here somewhere, sit in the service, go out, not running for office. Of course, when he's running for office, he comes every Sunday. But the mayor knows I like him. He knows it. I like him very much. And the police chief, same way. We had a little problem today. I called the police chief, talked to the police chief on the phone. He said, Reverend, we'll work with you any way we can. And I like the guys. And I try as much as I can to live peaceably with them as the Bible admonishes me to do. I honor them as the Bible admonishes me to do. I respect them as the Bible admonishes me to do. When the last mayor of Hammond, Mayor Joseph Clinton, When out of office? He was already out just before we went out of office. He was already defeated. And his last month or so in office, we had a big day for him here at First Baptist Church and thanked him for being our mayor and prayed for his future and so forth and gave him honor and respect. David, you still have that check that Mayor Klin sent you for graduation present? And Mayor Hammond sent Dave a graduation check when he graduated from high school when he was 26 years old. So the truth is, there's nothing wrong. But I'll say this. The mayor knows this. When the city council passes a rule that you can't go soul winning in Hammond, it's time to go to Trumpet. See? And pick up the soul. And if the sword goes through the mayor's bosom, it just goes through the mayor's bosom. That's all there is to it. Because it's none of the mayor of Hammond's business whether I go soul winning or not. Never fails. Did you ever know a musician that had a high enough IQ to know what to do? Sorry about that. I mean, a certain area, town, this area, passed a rule, some little Napoleons did, called themselves city councilmen. Their whole claim to fame is to try to vote some trouble to somebody that has a little claim, and so they passed a rule that you couldn't go soul winning without the mayor's permission. And I called the mayor and I said, I said, Mayor, I understand you have a little rule. He said, yes, sir. He said, you got to get permission, but he said, we'll give it to you. I said, no, we don't want it. Well, he said, I'll be glad to give it to you. I said, we're not going to ask you for it. I said, we already have it. I said, he said, you have permission? I said, no, we have a commission. And I said, we're just going to go soaring. He said, we'll put you in jail. I said, build a bigger jail. We got 3,000 customers coming next Saturday afternoon. Now, you say, what did you say? You say, you're pretty hard to get along with. Not as long as you don't cross the line. I like what the Quaker said. He said, sir, I would not hurt thee. I would not lift up my hand to harm thee. I desire to live at peace with thee. But you aren't standing where I'm about to shoot. You ask the mayor of Hammond. You ask him who his biggest booster is in the city of Hammond. You ask him, and he'll tell you, he'll say, he'll call me Reverend Hiles, his biggest booster, if not the biggest booster he has in the city of Hammond. But you let him tell me I can't go soul winning, and his command clashes with his command, and his command is going to bow to his command. I mean, 2 and 2 is 4, 4 and 4 is 8, 8 and 8 is a good deal. And I'm going solo in it, you see. I mean, why? Because it's time then to put down the trowel and take up the sword. Now why? You only have a right to take up the sword to defend your right to use the trowel. We're not supposed to spend all our time, brethren, in political campaigns. No, sir. In fact, we're spending too much time in them right now. We're too much wrath. We've laid down the trial, and in many cases, and there's no battle. Now, I want you to notice one thing. There are many fellows who build a wall, but it says, he that blew the trumpet. He that blew the trumpet. Thank you. How many blew the trumpet? One, just one. Yeah, thank you. One, okay. That means we don't need but one trumpet blower. Okay, we got Dr. Billings up there in Washington. Let's let him be the trumpet blower. You quit tooting yours, let's get back to work. Too many of you fellows quit building churches. Spent too much time trying to get Joe McFuddle elected dog catcher of Garbage County. Now, I'm not against politics. God knows I'm not. But I will tell you something. Mr. Reagan did not ride on a white horse down Pennsylvania Avenue. And the Republican Party is not composed of the 12 apostles and the 70 that were sent out. of the 120 that prayed in the upper room. And Mr. Reagan didn't put a lamb and a lion to lie down together on a White House lawn. And some of us have just about begun to play at the whole of the cockatrice den, thinking that our Messiah has come. Now, our Messiah drinks liquor. And our Messiah watched his son at a dirty ballet. Now, I voted for Reagan. I mean, good night. My choice is Reagan first, Charlie Brown second, and Carter third. And I'm glad he's in. But I'll tell you one thing. If this country's saved, it's going to be saved by church building preachers and not politicking preachers. Now, those that understand me, I think you ought to politic when the trumpet blows. But the trumpet's not blowing anymore, so you get out the trowel and you start building the wall. Thank you. No, no, no. That guy's eager, you know it. I mean, we got rid of Moffat. We got some prophets. Well, not prophets, but seers out here. You just don't know how that hurt me when you did that. Like a cold air piercing my breast. But I mean, we got other fellas out here can blow at. Pump plumbing too, you know that, don't you? I'm not going to fire you now, but you are on probation. I don't want to come to this next point, but somebody's got to do it. I really don't want to. I haven't got a tabloid. I haven't written a dirty article about anybody ever. And I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to. And I'm not trying to defy the fundamentalists. But somebody that's among us has got to alert us to one of the things that's going to destroy us. I want you to notice Nehemiah chapter number 6 and verse 1. Oh boy, I wish I didn't have to go into this. Okay now, no trumpet player, no building right now. What's, what are the Jews doing? Building a what? Wall. And the enemy kept coming in. They're opposed by craft and they're opposed by opposition. They're opposed by ridicule. And they said, why, a fox can come up and blow that wall down. But they kept on building the wall. Notice this now. When they said the fox can blow it down, he didn't get the sword. He kept on building. Criticism didn't cause him to put down the trowel and take up the sword. Anger on the part of the opposition didn't cause him to put down the trowel and take up the sword. When they fought by physical opposition, to take away his right to build a wall. Then, and only then, he picked up the sword. Now then, verse 1 of chapter 6. Now it came to pass, by the way, I've been preaching here quite a while tonight, but I mean we are not even begun. You don't mean that, but I'm kidding you, we are here for a while. I get paid by the hour and I need the money. Income tax time comes up in just a few days. And all of you not going to like this, but I'll bind you one thing, you folks that don't like it, before you leave tonight, you are going to hear some of the truth. Now it came to pass, I heard a colored fellow preach on that one night, one of the best sermons I ever heard, came to pass. He said, thank God ain't nothing done come to pass. He's got trouble, but it comes to pass. It came to pass when Sanballat and Tobiah and Gishom, the Arabian, and the rest of our enemies, heard that I had built a wall, that there was no breach left therein, though at the time I had not set up the doors upon the gate, that Sanballat and Gishom sent unto me, saying, Come, let us meet together. Hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, don't go, don't go, Nehemiah, don't go, don't go. Don't go to the ministerial association. No, sir, don't hang around them. They're enemies. But you say we're all ministers. Yeah, Phil doesn't believe the virgin birth, he's a minister of the devil. Phil doesn't believe this Bible, he's a minister of Satan. You haven't got any business hobnobbing with a bunch of infidels that don't believe this Bible. Right down the street here, a little fellow came to me. He said, Reverend Hiles, he said, we're going to have some inner city work. And I said, we ought to have some inner city work. He said, would you cooperate with the local ministerium with an inner city work? I said, yeah, sure. I said, if one thing, I said, do you believe the Bible is the word of God? Well, he said, no. Do you believe the virgin birth? No. Do you believe the deity of Christ? He said, no. And I said, then I'm not going to cooperate. He said, he said, I didn't think you would. He said, you're not cooperative. I said, buddy, it's not me, it's not cooperative. You're not cooperating and believing the truth. Don't hang an uncooperative tag on me. Pastor of a certain church in town called me on the phone. He said, he said, Reverend, our Sunday school isn't doing so well, for which I thank God. He said, I'd like to ask you, can we bring our board up some Sunday morning and you instruct us on building a Sunday school? I said, maybe. He said, well, what maybe? And I said, do you believe the Bible is the word of God? He said, no. Virgin birth, no. Blood atonement, no. Sinless life, no. He said, now can we come? I said, no. You say, you got a bad spirit. Yes, and I aim to keep a bad spirit around dirty imposters that stand behind the pulpit and claim to be God's men, don't even believe God's word. And yet some of you sorry rascals hobnob with them and sit across the table with them at the ministerial association, and my Bible still says, come ye out from among them and be a separate, saith the Lord. So I don't like that preaching. I don't much like your hobnobbing either. He said, I won't come back next year. Then I'll pluck your tail feathers while you're here this year. I said to this liberal preacher, I said, look, if I find you and your car has a flat, I'll help you fix it. If you're hungry, I'll feed you. If you're cold, I'll clothe you. But I said, if you don't believe that book, when you stand up and preach next Sunday morning, I hope you get the hiccups. I want to tell you something. If you haven't got a bad spirit about somebody that calls your Savior an illegitimate child of an adulteress, there's something wrong with you. It made me so sick I wanted to vomit. When one Southern Baptist had enough courage, that's one, add that to all the others, I know that's one. And had enough courage to, he said, well, the house, you're going to make everybody, I'm going to preach everything I believe, everything I believe. I'm going to start with creation, go all the way to the millennium. And, but one Southern Baptist got up and said, God doesn't hear the prayer of a Jew. And you'd think he'd committed the unpardonable sin. Now God doesn't answer the prayer or honor the prayer of anybody that doesn't believe in his son. I don't care if he's Jew, Presbyterian, Thessalopian or what he is God does not answer the prayer of anybody who prays that prayer unless he comes through the operator and the operator is not Virgin Mary it's the Son of God and nobody gets his prayer answered And then, so what happened? Here comes all the liberal pinks out saying, oh my, what an awful statement. And all these fundamentalist preachers started running into their holes like groundhogs. Say, oh, we didn't mean that. Well, don't say it then. What we ought to have said is we said it, we meant it, and it's true. I am the way, said Jesus, the truth, and the life, and no man cometh unto the Father but by me. Let's be fundamentalists. There was a day when fundamentalists met in storefront buildings, attics, tents, Our chandeliers were 50 watt light bulbs. We didn't have telephones in our studies, we had megaphones. Our coats didn't match our pants, we couldn't afford coats that matched our pants. Our socks didn't match our ties, our socks didn't match each other. I mean, And you know, back, listen, every single great denomination had its best days when it was under the fire of persecution. Every one. I don't, I may as well just call a few names. You Nazarene brethren were a lot better off when folks hated you. Yeah, you were. So were you Assembly of Gods too. You Charismatics were better off before you invited the Hollywood movie stars to your television program. You're better off when your wives wore their hair in a bun on the back of their head. The only makeup they knew about was making up with the old man when they had a fuss with him. And people said, I know what she is. She's Pentecostal. Now, I'm not saying you ought to go back to that, but that dead sure beats this modern jazz you've got with a bunch of hippies up with an orchestra and a little painted doll on the show. You say, you're being critical. Yes, I am. It's time that God's people decided either stand up or sit down, put up or shut up, get in or get out, get hot or get cold, and let's get back to old-fashioned fundamentalism again. And if we don't, if we don't, we're ruined. Our convictions and our distinctives have made us what we are. Now that all of a sudden, we used to have a choir, had three old codgers, two draft dodgers, wing-ding-ding some little ditty. And the tune of the piano was to stick the strings back inside the wooden part. Our toilets were outhouses. We called them First John, Second John, and Third John. We didn't have hand towels. We had running water, you had to run out to the creek to get it. I mean, nowadays, look at this, boy, we got chandeliers and carpet. We even got a piano and organ painted white to match all the pieces. Let me tell you something, buddy. I'll tear these chandeliers down, and I'll splinter this piano and this organ to pieces if we ever get to the day to where this altar is not as filled with tears as the old-fashioned soldiers play it. I absolutely refuse. Oh, we have our own colleges. Now then, we want to be accredited. We want a bunch of heathen to check us out and be sure that we're okay. And even brag on the fact we're accredited. Yeah. Blessed is the man that walketh in the counsel of the ungodly. That's changed. That's the scripture now. Come and check us, heathen. See if you like us and give us a diploma to put on our wall. You stay out of House Anderson College. They sent us, there's a law in the state of Indiana that every college has got to be accredited by accrediting association or the State Board of Education. They sent us an application form. We filed it in the little round thing in the corner of our office. We filed it in there. You say, under what conditions would you accept accreditation? Insanity. You say, you're sort of peculiar. Yeah, I'm just like you used to be. And the fact that you just got accredited means you didn't used to be accredited. And what you're doing is you're saying that the fathers who built our denominations and built, made us what we are. Now we're saying, well, we're still fundamental, but we believe we ought to go study under Barth and Kierkegaard and read Niebuhr and Brunner. Why won't you read Rice and Jones? Along with Hiles, of course. Just happen to have a few books here. If you knew where I am in my outline, you'd be very discouraged. But now then, the spotlight's been turned on us. Did you know that I preached in Washington, D.C., sitting right beside a senator? Did you know that the President invited me to the White House? I mean, I had to I couldn't even use my finger to push my peas on my fork. Did you know that I talked for some time with a famous peanut farmer? And I met the cabinet I mean, look at me. But, buddy, Old Howes decided a long time ago that if he's in the White House or the outhouse, he's a capital F, capital U, capital N, capital however else you spell that word fundamentally. Yes, sir. You say, Old Howes, you're so odd. You take a look at the pictures of your camp 25 years ago and you will find out you used to be like I am. So now that the spotlight is turned on us and America sees us, we don't want to wear fundamentalist garb. We want to put on a little American Baptist rouge, a little Southern Baptist eye shadow. Yeah, sure. And we'll use different terms now. Of course, God hears the prayer of the Jews. What we ought to say is, Folks, God doesn't need anybody's prayers not born again as far as answering the prayer is concerned. Oh sure, God hears the prayer of the hot and talking Africa praying to a river, but doesn't answer it. You know, it sounds so funny having to preach like this. And some of you guys look like you just landed on the moon and found little green people up there. This is where you came from, brethren. I mean, if you want to know what a bad shape you used to be in, look at me. This is what you used to be. Some of you guys back when I was Southern Baptist a quarter of a century ago, you said, come on, Hiles, crawl out on the limb. I did. Now you crawled back to the tree. Then you sawed the limb off, I saw. Now listen to me. Sanballat, we'd like to have a talk with you. Sanballat, we want to help you a little bit. Just like they said to Ezra, they said, come, let us build with you. Now, you hear me? Now, if this is my swan song, I'm going to sing all four stanzas of it and the seven fold amen at the end of it. And I'm not mad at anybody, but brethren, we had better understand this. It is unscriptural. Now, I am for us, totally for us, entering into the battle of the political arena in order to salvage our freedoms. But we don't need Sanballat and Tobiah to cooperate with us in the endeavor to save our freedom. This old song and dance that says, well, as long as we work together in a secular cause, it's okay. We're not religiously together. Now, somebody sold you a wooden nickel. Ladies and gentlemen, building a wall was a secular cause. They weren't building a temple. They weren't building a prayer closet. They're a secular building a wall around the city to protect the city from the enemies. That's what they're building. And Nehemiah said, we don't need you heathen to work with us. That's secular. Sit still. Now, I'm not mad at anybody. I'm not. Some of my dearest friends are hobnobbing with Mormons. and Catholic priests. Now, brethren, you say what you want to say. If we hobnob with them, our daughters are going to meet their sons, not the priests' sons, of course. Well, maybe we would. When Jehoshaphat was in the southern kingdom Ahab and Jezebel in the northern kingdom, Ahab said, look, Ramoth and Gilead is ours, belongs to us, let's go get it. Now that's a secular endeavor. He said to Jehoshaphat, let's join together and go up there and take Ramoth and Gilead. And God told Jehoshaphat not to do it. Jehoshaphat said, is there a man of God we can check with? And that's what this old nation will do, is check with God's men. And so Ahab brought out his little president of the ministry association, and he said, this is tranquilizer. I'm trying to calm down a little bit. Last time I preached this sermon, I shot two people and killed them. You know, with the way I preach here, I've been thinking about putting bulletproofing in front of the pews instead of behind the pulpit. What happened? Jehoshaphat compromised in a secular endeavor. So what happened? Well, since he did, he and his wife went up to visit Ahab and Jezebel. And Jehoshaphat had a son named Jehoram. And Jezebel and Ahab had a daughter named Athaliah. And Jehoram and Athaliah fell in love and married each other. Athaliah goes down to the southern kingdom and becomes the Jezebel of the south and destroys the kingdom. She never would have met Jehoram. Jehoram would never have met her. Joshua had to stay at home. And the whole kingdom was destroyed because a good man, Joshua was a good man, a good man, entered into a secular endeavor with heathen. And if we don't watch out, our children, look, if our kids see us sitting across the table from the Catholics and the Mormons, Another heathen? I mean, it's a place now where we almost like the Pope. I mean, the Pope hasn't got converted yet. I've checked my files. I've checked my mail all week. I haven't gotten any invitation to preach a revival campaign in the Vatican yet. And when the Pope talks about ecumenicalism, he's not talking about having Bob Jones for a Bible conference. Whatever happened to fundamentalists? Whatever happened to two-fisted men? Whatever happened to people that said black is black and white is white, black interrupted? It's true. Whatever happened? Our country's pretty good back in those days. Now you drive an Oldsmobile 98. Or you drive, in some cases, Cadillacs, Lincoln Continental, We live in $125,000, $130,000 houses, carpet on the floors. To the old rugged cross, I will ever be true. It's shame and reproach gladly bear. Folks, I'm not very smart, but I know we haven't got any business messing around with these Mormons. You check these guys that pastor out in Salt Lake City and Utah. You check those guys that pastor out in Arizona, Tucson, and out there in the area where those folks in charge, and you see how cooperative they are with fundamentalists. And I mean, you just check around the world and you feel the blood still dropping from the sword of the hierarchy in Rome, Baptist blood. We have no right to court the gal or court the guy that raped our forefathers. We need some old Mordecai hands. J. Frank Norris. John Rice, Bob Jones, Sr. Can you feature some of those old guys running in the crowd we run with? But you say, brother, how? How are we going to win? My Bible never said having done all win. My Bible said having done all stand. I know I was supposed to win. I thought I was supposed to stand. Paul said I fought a good fight. He didn't say I won. I didn't know we were supposed to win. Well, how are we going to save this country? My people are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their soap operas. Then will I hear from heaven, forgive their sin and heal their land. There it is. Of course, I gave the revised version, but it's in there. Listen, brother, you hear me. They gave Bob Billings, and I'm glad they did, a job, the president. But you know why they did it. They did it to make us be quiet. We got one office, and I think one of our guys maybe have another office, a secondary office. But they just got it, one or two of our guys there, to hush us up and get our vote, that's all. And I mean, here we are, we think we're about to take over. I mean, I've been looking for a letter making me Secretary of State. I really have. You've got to be kidding. Brother, the political system of this country with a Democrat or Republican is as rotten as the devil, and you know it's the truth. The only hope of this country, listen, the only hope in this world this country's got is divine intervention. That's the only hope we've got. Only hope in the world we've got. I mean, Joshua didn't get elected Mayor of Jericho. He prayed the walls down. Listen, I'll be happy for the Catholics to work for conservatism and morality and clean television shows. I'm glad they do. But we don't have to set them aside. Let them work on their side. Let's work on our side. But you say that won't work as well. Oh, you mean going against the scripture works better than living with the scripture? Somebody said, over the house, when the battle's over, we'll wear a crown. Yeah, I know, that's that way, battle of Afchander. That's Armageddon. Somebody said, if you'll take a stand for God, I'll guarantee you'll end up on top. Now speak about that with John the Baptist. Ask Paul about that when the guillotine severed his head from his body. Now brethren, we've got to take stock and we've got to get some sanity. Our hope is God. Our hope is divine intervention. We've gotten to the place where we think our hope is our cunning. But what we better do, we better just get back to what this book says and live by it. And this book teaches us that we're supposed to build, and then if they say we're going to keep you from building, take up the sword. But it doesn't say you're supposed to join the Mormon army. Now, if they want to fight against the enemy, it's okay, but we should organize with them. If a rattlesnake, a big rattlesnake, was loose in my neighborhood, I'd get all the neighbors together right quick. I'd say, hey man, we got a rattlesnake, get your gun, let's get it. But as soon as the snake is killed, I'm not going to join Neighborhood Rattlesnake Association. Somebody said, but I'm doing this as a private citizen. Brother, when God called you to preach the gospel, you'd never do anything again as a private citizen. You're a prophet everywhere you go. You're God's man. You can't take off your mantle and put it back on. If you could, I wouldn't want mine off. No, sir. When I was in the White House, they said, who are you? I didn't say author. That would have sounded good. 30 books. What kind? Motivation. What other job do you have? College chancellor. Educator. Or a lecturer. What degree do you have? Well, I've traveled a lot. I got the FRGS. You've seen that one? That fraud degree, you've seen it? No, they said, what do you do for a living? I said, I preach. Preacher. Pastor where? First Baptist Church, Hamlet. Old. Old. You say, you're a rabble rouser. No, I'm not. I'm a church builder. Don't believe in fighting unless I'm defending the right to build. And then I start fighting, I'm not going to have a devil in a trench beside me. Not going to do it. Or one of his representatives. My Bible said if you don't believe the virgin birth and the fundamentals of this book, my Bible says you're antichrist. If you want to hobnob the antichrist, go ahead. Some of you little air-tickling, back-scratching, penny-pinching, nipping, soft-soaping, pink-peeling, pussy-footers. It's about time you went home and took a stand. But you say, my deacon board wouldn't like it. Don't ask them. I'd rather take off my clerical garb and get me a Bible and get on a soapbox in a field and preach the truth. Hobnobbed a bunch of people trying to buy me off I I told my folks that we have some folks in church that have money. We got one families worth $250 I Said there's not enough money in Fort Knox, Kentucky And I said you deacons and members that not enough money all your bank accounts to buy one one minute commercial in one of my sermons not one of them Oh, forget that smile. It's been a long time ago, but I did do it. You say, you're mad at so-and-so. I'm not mad at anybody. And everybody I know that is hobnobbing with the wrong crowd I've gone to him as a loving brother, and I've told him, you ought not to do it. You're breaking down the barriers of fundamentalism. And every time that God ever acted in the entire Bible, every time God ever acted in a supernatural deliverance of this nation, he said to the people the day before, he said, sanctify yourselves. And that means set yourselves apart. Some of the dearest friends I have in this world are sitting across the table from Mormons and Catholic priests and liberals, and I still love them. I've never called it in. I'm not going to do it. Have no tabloids. I just tell them, I said, look, when I preach, I'm going to preach what I believe. You preach what you believe. When we get through preaching, let's go out and have a bite to eat. But what I'm preaching is what our forefathers preached. And you mark it down. We've just about broken the barriers now between the convention people and the fundamental people because we've messed with them too much. Now, I love them, and I thank God for all the people that belong to these big conventions that take a stand and are fighting from within. But Daniel didn't clean up this country. If Isaiah didn't clean up Israel, if Jeremiah didn't clean up Judah, you may have a tough time cleaning up America. And I'm not as concerned about the filth in America as I am the filth in our church members. It doesn't bother me near as much because of the dirty television shows as it bothers me that you're watching them. That's what bothers me. I mean, I hate them. I hate them. But if America goes to hell, it'll not be because Hollywood's bad. It's because God's people are Hollywoodish. That's it. Our hope, brethren, is for us to get God to good humor. That's the only hope. We've got to say, God, look at us. We're sanctifying ourselves. Now then, don't forget this, it's only to defend. Better get several more tapes up there ready to put them on. But now it's only to defend. We're not supposed to spend our time building the wall. I was on an airplane. By the way, defending can be fun. Somebody from the Donahue show called me and said, would you be on the Donahue show? I said, I'm preaching that night. I wouldn't cancel preaching to 15 people for the whole Donahue mess. I'm a preacher, I'm not a Donahuer. I'm a preacher. Now, I'm not against anybody being on Donahue, that's okay with me. I just haven't got time. You say, why? Because I know what I do. And then I'd jump across that table and... That's what I'd do. I mean, I'm afraid that's what I'd do. You say, that's a bad spirit. Yes, and I aim to keep a bad spirit toward the devil's crowd and the folks trying to ruin this country, and the dirty pinks. And I'm saying the answer is in us getting our people cleaned up. That's the answer. You say, well the house, I've got you scheduled for preaching my church and now I'm going to cancel. Okay, when you get through doing that, put some lace around your underwear too. You say, I didn't come for this. When I was in the Army and went down to the chow hall, I went for sirloin and T-bones, but I got horse meat. I just held my tray out and they forked it over. That's the way we serve here. I'm not going to come back tomorrow morning. We've got too many folks in here. At our church, the crowds get too big, we don't build new buildings, we just preach a few of them out. Don't forget that smile. I was on an airplane flying from Cleveland, Ohio to Chicago. Came time to eat, they put a little plate there in front of me. Little friend flew down and said he wanted to share my meal with me. I tried to discourage his participation. Gave him a few little hints like that. He took off, landing strip, circle of field, came back and landed right in the same place again. I said, fellow, I just don't feel led for you to I don't eat the roll anyhow. I put the roll over here. He's on the roll. I'll just put the roll over here and you can have a roll. I'll eat this. When I put the roll over here, he decided he wanted something over here where I was eating. So I decided I was going to get the sword out. I heard the trumpet blow. That's why I organized the Fly Haters Association of America. And so I got that little magazine. I put a magazine under there. I got that magazine, you know, that airplane magazine, you know, and I folded that thing. Good night, I got Winston cigarettes here on the back of this thing. I folded the thing and I started and he evaded, evaded again. Then he felt distressed about the environment and took off down the runway and went back to the fellow behind me, decided he'd eat with him because I was there and cooperated. By the time he'd done that, I wasn't trying to save my food, I was trying to kill that fly. I'd lost the whole perspective. Boy, I tell you, I swing it that right finger. And finally, he went behind me and I killed him. But neither one of us ate. Because the food landed up in the prone position on the floor. And that's what's happening to your church. While you fly chasing, your church is dying. You better get back to the travel. I mean, while you're chasing the enemy, your wall's been torn down. And I haven't got any, listen, I haven't got any desire to fight anybody. If you knew me, this is not me. I love to preach on heaven. I'd love to do that than this. But somebody who's not trying to hurt anybody, somebody who's not trying to slander somebody's character, somebody who's not trying to write articles all over the country trying to destroy somebody else, needs to stand up and say, brethren, we've got a problem, we've got to look at it, let's get back to church building, and let's fight if we have to fight, but let's don't join up with the heathen to do it. Now then, when do you fight? Don't forget that was the title of the sermon. And we're just down to it now. When do you fight? Okay, in the church, in the church. You know why I'm preaching tonight, as long as I am? I checked with my secretary and found out what the two speakers last year got, who spoke two years ago, got on Tuesday night. And I said, good night, I'll preach the whole time. I end the church. For example, when I came to First Baptist Church, Hammond, they sang the doxology. Oh, Sunday morning, I didn't fight over that. They sang the gloria patria. I didn't fight over that. I don't like choir robes. I personally think they came from Mother Harlot's. And I don't think, to me there's nothing looks any sicker than to see a man run around in a gown. I just don't, and I'm not mad at you. Use choir ropes, go ahead. And I'll love you and I'll preach for you and some best friends I've got, use them. I just don't like them. When I came here though, I didn't fight over it. I didn't say, man, I'll take my stand. Remember how we got rid of them? You led the choir back in those days. It came summertime, and some of the ladies got complaining about how hot the choir robes were. And a committee came to me and said, Pastor, would it be okay with you if during the summertime we didn't wear these robes? They didn't even know I was against them. I didn't fight over that. They said, could we just take the robes off for the summertime? I said, well, of course. It's just been summertime ever since. I wouldn't fight over it. When I was in Texas, we took the Lord's Supper every three months on Sunday night. Two or three of you ladies tonight, not having much fun, are you? It's been so long since you've seen a man. You don't know how to behave, do you? We've got two or three little ER heirs here tonight. And the hubby's sitting right beside him. Yeah. I bet he's been asking his wife, is it okay with you if I take my stand? This tears some of you females up to find a fellow that knows you can't twist, doesn't it, huh? I'm not going to fight about doxology. Not long ago, in our Sunday school, I decided we'd have a spring program. And so I said, okay, I'm going to give one of my books out for every Sunday as a gift to those that bring a visitor, and we'll take a chapter from that book and study it. People wrote me a letter, and it was under my door. It was anonymous. I don't read anonymous letters, but this was under my door, so I didn't expect an anonymous letter under my door. I never thought that the day would come we'd be studying man's book instead of God's book. I didn't fight over that. I went up the next Wednesday night and didn't tell them. My folks don't even know this happened unless they're here now. Next Wednesday night, I said, you know, I've changed my mind. Let's just go back and study what we were going to study. Let's don't study the chapters in my book. I don't mind changing. Nothing wrong with it. No, I'll tell you what, I'm going to take my stand. We're going to teach Buddhism and religion instead of the Bible. I'm not going to fight over that. The chapters we're going to study are Bible principles. But I changed it. I wouldn't fight over that. You say, what would you fight over? Well, since you brought it up, I'll answer you. When a fella, one of my deacons up there with his thing, he won't let me talk because I'm preaching so hard. When a fella decides he's going to interfere with anything that goes on here up, get up and blow that trumpet! Yeah, he just crossed the line. Thank you. Yeah, he just crossed the line. Who told you to get up? I said a while ago, I don't like to fight. I don't fight. Take Roloff. He loves it. Love it. Jim Vineyard loves it. Loves it. If Vineyard were in this room and a bullet came through, he'd jump in front of it. Not me. No, sir. You say, well, how is it, if you get killed like Paul did, you going to say the same thing he did? I fought a good fighter, kept the faith, I finished the course? Not me. I'm going to say Alex. I'll be honest, I've not turned my hat size in for the martyr's crown yet. The crown of sowing holds more appeal to me than the crown of suffering. And I've always liked Elijah's route to heaven better than John the Baptist. And I've always liked the lions best when I'm outside the cage instead of inside the cage. And I'd rather join Peter, James, and John on the Mount of Transfiguration than Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the oven. I've always preferred Pentecost to Patmos, the rapture to death, millennium to tribulation, the crown to a cross. I never thought my head looked good on a platter, and I'm still working on obeying that last three attitudes. I still cry when somebody criticizes me. When I lose a member, I still can't sleep at night. I don't care who it is, if I hear so-and-so left the church, I always weep. Always do. Don't have any of them I want to lose. I love them. But there are some areas of my life where nobody can enter without a fight. Thirty-three years ago at three o'clock one morning in East Texas pine thicket, I set some boundaries. Three deacons met me that night and told me I'd never preach in a pulpit where I was called a pastor. I was scared to death. I was 21 years of age. I drove for several hours, made five decisions that night. One decision I made to God that night, and God knows I've kept it. I made a decision to be a friend of my friend. You'll forgive me for saying it, but I've worked mighty hard to do that, keep that. I made a decision that money would never influence my ministry. One fellow said to me, you preach for me for five nights, I'll give you $10,000. I said, not me, you can't buy me off $10,000. Fifteen maybe, but not ten. If a man says to me, if a man says to me, I'll give you 25 cents to preach. I won't preach for him. If money's mentioned, I won't preach. And by the way, I'll say something else. All the fellows got to do to get cancelled out with me is to tell me what the stipend is. You just give me a cent. Let some musical group come in and say, our fee is, and that's all they'll have to say. I'll say, change that is to one. I just don't think that when David played his harp before Saul, he sent him a promotional letter before he went and said, I get $1,000 per concert. Sit still. I promised God I'd base my loyalties on principles and not institutions. I will not give my institution, my loyalty to the Howells Anderson College. Howell's Anderson College someday will be manned by liberals. And so will Tennessee Temple, and so will Bob Jones University, and so will Baptist Bible College. Those buildings out there are just tools to use to put some men of God around this country. One of these days, liberals, I'll say to my people, whenever a man stands behind this pulpit and doesn't believe this book, tackle him. Tackle him. If you lose the vote, leave. Start another church. Don't stay around. I promise God I'd make my decisions on the basis of right and wrong, not on the basis of how it turns out. Number five, I promise God that nobody's going to tell me when to preach, where to preach, what to preach, how long to preach. And I want to warn you now, I love you and I want to be at peace with you. I don't want any trouble. When you enter my pulpit, you're in for the fight of your life. Because I'm on a slug, pull hair, knee, gal jibes. I like that colored fellow down south, sentenced to die in an electric chair. Judge said, I sentence you to die in an electric chair. He said, anything you want me to say? The old colored fellow said, yes, I shall do it. I want to tell you how much I appreciate the kindness of the jury. He said, the counsel for the defense has been so courteous, and I want to know I appreciate your courtesies. He said, all the folks in the audience have been so kind, and I want you to know I'm grateful for your kindness. But he said, Mr. Judge, as far as you're concerned, you done split your britches with me. When I came to Hammond, a man stood up in the church one night and said, I'll make a motion that the preacher checks with us about who he has in the pulpit from now on. And I said, that motion's passed, and I leave the church. My resignation goes with the passing of that motion. He said, Robert, Rules of Order says that the moderator can't speak on a motion. I said, Mr. Roberts ain't here. Some of you ladies just send the boy, I'd hate to be married to him. Dr. Blake in the front of the set tomorrow night, he says every time he preaches, gal came up and said, if I were you, I'd kill you. If I married you, I'd kill you. He said, if you were married to me, I'd be willing to die. I came here to First Baptist Church, Hammond, one of my deacons came to me. He said, Pastor, about your preaching. I said, hold it, you crossed the line. He said, we want to have a meeting to discuss your preaching. Is that okay with you? I said, sure. That was on Sunday. He called me Tuesday morning. He said, the meeting will be tomorrow night at seven. He called me Tuesday morning and said, where were you? I never told you I'd come. I said, you just have a meeting. You can have whatever night you want to. But nobody's going to discuss my preaching with me except Tim. I was preaching down in Florida the other day. While I was preaching, a fellow got up and walked out. I walked out, it was the city auditorium, walked over here through the curtain and there he was. He said, I guess you saw me walk out on you, didn't you? I said, yeah, and watch me carefully. I'm about to walk out on you too. How many of you are dying for a preacher? Let somebody mess with his preaching. They want to sing the doxology? Okay, keep on building the wall. Don't take the sword out and don't blow the trumpet. When time comes and somebody says about that sermon, It's time to grab a sword. It's time to fight. Years ago, almost 22, one of the richest men in this city invited us to his house for dinner one night. One of the richest men in this church. Never told this story behind this pulpit as far as I know. Went to one of the most beautiful houses I'd ever seen. Sat down at one of the most elegant tables. I mean, a whole bunch of forks lined up there. I mean, skinny ones and fat ones and long ones and short ones. And I sat down and it presented quite a challenge. And we ate right in the middle of the meal. His wife said, Reverend Howells, he said, are you going to join a ministerial association? And I didn't want to cause any trouble then. I'd just gotten here. I said, well, if it's fundamental, I will. She said, it's not fundamental. Are you going to join? I said, I'll pray about it. She said, let's pray now. I was about in the corner. She said, are you going to join or not? She said, do you think you're too good to sit across the table with my friends, pastors? I pushed my table back and I said, let's just have an understanding right now. I looked at him and I said, in your business, if you ever need my advice, you call me. But I said, you call me, I'm not going to give you advice about your business. And I said, sir, if I ever need advice about my preaching or join a ministerial association, I'll call you if I want it. But until I call, don't you pick up the receiver. Nobody's going to mess with my preaching. That goes for the Southern Baptist Convention. It goes for the trustees, deacons, denominational secretaries, popes, potentates, rich members, mayors, governors, presidents, state of Indiana, state of California, Los Angeles County, United States government, Vatican City, Supreme Court, National Council of Churches, World Council of Churches, Universal Council of Churches, Intercontinental and the Council of Churches. That goes for the Ku Klux Klan, NAACP, the Gay Libertarian Movement. I don't even use Ben Gay anymore. That goes for the National Organization for Women. Now, it says, that goes to the Christian Temperance Union, Bureau of Internal Revenue, HEW, WMS, WPA, NRA, NCAA, PTA, NBA, and NFL. That goes to the President's Cabinet. U.S. Congress, U.S. Pentagon, U.S. Senate, U.S. Navy, U.S. Army, U.S. Air Force, U.S. Post Office, U.S. Department of Urban Renewal, U.S. Coast Guard, U.S. Marine, U.S. Treasury, and U.S. Grant. That goes to the Department of Civil Defense, American Democratic Society, Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Dumb Animals, Ecumenical Council, Goes for Norman Vincent Peale, goes for Billy Graham, goes for you, and you, and you, and you, and you, and you, and he goes for you, goes for everybody. Goes for Rice, and Jones, and Falwell, and Roloff, and Roberson. You say you wouldn't let Roberson tell you what to preach? Yeah, I'd let him tell me, but I wouldn't listen. His belief is what I preach, none of mine what he preaches. Goes for the Southwide Fellowship, Baptist Bible Fellowship, World Baptist Fellowship, Fundamental Baptist Fellowship, Midwest Baptist Fellowship. Goes for wife, kids, mother-in-law, mother, sister, choir, ushers, teachers, staff. Not even the Dallas Cowboys are going to mess with my preaching. I don't get mad very often. I really don't. Until a fellow crosses the line. I was in London, England with 64 of our people on a trip to the Holy Land. We were on our way to Dallas. You say, when are you going to get through? I don't know. I really don't. If I knew, I'd tell you. But I'll tell you what. If I see the end approaching, I'll let you know. How about that? We were in a hotel in London. They promised us first class rooms. They didn't even give us private restrooms in our room. Now, I don't mind using an outhouse myself, but I had 64 of my people that saved, and numbers of them had given their life savings to go to the Holy Land and got in London. And this fellow with scissor tail coat said, sorry there old chap. I said, I'm sorry too. He said, old chap, we just don't have any private bathrooms left. And I said, get some. I said, it says right here, luxury rooms, first class. He said, well, they're all sold. I said, you promised them. And then he said it. Oh, he said it. My men here know what's coming. Every one of them are shrinking back right now. He said, that's the trouble with America. Oh, it started in my toe. It worked its way up to my feet, calves, knees, thighs, hips, stomach, chest, arms, feet, thigh, toe, thumb. I want the blood of an Englishman. Before I knew, I didn't know who I was, where I was, if I was. If I'd been in Nazarene, I'd been lost forever. I jumped across that desk. You listen to me. Don't you ever say that about America anymore. My deacons had to pull me off that fella. Don't you mess with my preaching. And don't you let anybody mess with yours. Preaching is truth on fire. It's God's word wrapped in an excited voice. It's the moral conscience of a nation. It's the throne room of society. It's the building of churches, salvation of schools. It's the most important activity in the neighborhood. When God's man steps to the pulpit, The heavens hush, the devil trembles, angels envy. That's why I say to our ushers when I preach, sit down and listen. That's why our money counters don't count the money during preaching. Money counters need money as preaching too. That's why the PM in up there while I'm preaching, sit still and listen. No concert can take its place. God pity you fellows, have your Christmas cantata during preaching time. Rise up and be a man. Never was a, oh but you say, three years ago we had somebody saved. No movie can convey the truth as well. No drama or play can perform as nobly. You know the thing I hate about the hostage crisis most of all? Did you know really what happened in the hostage crisis? They invaded the United States of America. That was our territory. That embassy was ours. They attacked us in an act of war. Mr. Carter said, you'll be sorry. We're not going to run in the Olympics. I will teach you. We're not afraid. You attack us and we won't run a hundred yard dash with you. We won't high jump with you. Oh goodnight, whatever happened to Teddy Roosevelt. They attacked us. The thing I hate about what's going on in the state of California tonight, they've got a rule out there, if you preach against abortion, you've got to turn it into the state. It's a law. Yeah. And the saddest thing about that is some of the Baptist preachers out there are doing it. What's going on now? Preach against homosexuality. You don't turn into the state, you lose your tax exemption. You've got a little Baptist preacher friend. Let's see, how long has it been since you've been just divorced? Last Sunday. Were you for it or against it? I leaned against it. It'll be a cold day where the boogerman lives before I ever do that. Hey preacher, your territory is under attack. They've declared war on you. This pope is as much mine as our embassy is America's. And let's free the hostages. You and you and you and you. Get free. Nothing quite as wonderful as being a preacher. Only thing more wonderful than that is being a Baptist preacher. Only thing better than that is being an independent Baptist preacher. The only thing better than that is being a free, independent Baptist preacher. I mean this. I had rather rot in an Iranian jail as a hostage than be a hostage where I stand today. Now then, that's one third of it. Second, denomination. There's nothing wrong with belonging to the denomination. Fundamental. There's nothing wrong with cooperation, if it's voluntary. There's nothing wrong with being asked to join a venture, if you're not coerced. There's nothing wrong with voluntarily using denominational literature, if it's fundamental. There's nothing wrong with starting denominational schools, but there's also trumpet blowing time. Trumpet blowing time is when they interfere with the business of a local church. Mr. Superintendent, I love you at a distance, but don't you bother. but the local churches, none of your business. See, denominations were started and superintendents were hired as servants of the churches. And whenever the superintendent becomes the head, and that becomes a bigger office than that of pastor, you've got the cart before the horse. 21 years ago, this summer, We were having it. That night we were having it. Man alive. We had an old-fashioned Donnybrook church split. 406 people just like that. And some good people too, by the way. Not all people that get upset are bad people. And we pulled out of the American Baptist Convention and a lot of stuff. And so we chose one night. to just have it, thrash it out. Anybody could say anything you want, ask anything you want to ask. I'd stand behind the pulpit, answer all the questions, and friend and foe would just throw questions at me. Wouldn't you believe it? Right before the meeting started, in came the big denomination of oil and his little sidekick right beside him. You've seen him. Andy Griffith and little old Barney Fife right there beside him. That's where they were. They walked in that hallway over there where my office is. They were there to defend the rights of the denomination. And I walked up to them and called them by name. And I said, you're welcome here tonight. If you came to enjoy the Bible study, you're welcome. If you came to interfere with our church business, it's none of your business. And I said, if you as much as stand up in that business meeting, if you as much as stand up, we're going to get men on each arm and each leg And they're going to take you like this and go, one, two, three, and throw you out on Sibley Street on your bottom. And I said, if you don't believe me, you just stand up and try to interfere with the business of a local church. Some of you little pussyfooters got beads of sweat on your head right now just thinking about this. And I said, I hope you stand up. We had a balcony over here in a small building. They sat under the balcony. They never stood up. In fact, they didn't stand up for prayer. Song leaders said, let's stand and sing a certain song. They kept seated. They didn't stand up to sing. Now listen to me, I'm not against you belonging your nomination, but if you're afraid of that superintendent, getting out time just passed. And if you're a superintendent, you keep your cotton-picking hands off the churches. Yeah, you're scared, preach to him, preach to him. You go home, preach to him. Blow the trumpet when they decide they own your property. Property ought to belong to the local church. No clauses in the deed. Blow the trumpet when they require or pressure your cooperation in any endeavor. They ask you for, they insist you pay dues for the area college. Time to fight. Oh, but you say, but how? I'd lose my retirement plan. Do you independent, one fellow said, do you independent Baptists have a retirement plan? Sure. You do? Yeah, yeah. What is it? Well, it goes like this. My God shall supply all your needs according to His riches and glory by Christ Jesus. That's it. I belong to a certain denomination. I won't tell you what it was. Don't embarrass anybody. It was in the South. It was a Baptist group. I spoke one year, one year. I spoke before 4,000 people at the State Training Union Convention. I spoke before 5,000 people at the State Sunday School Convention. I spoke before 7,000 people at the State Convention, the Coliseum. I was about 26 years old. State Convention Coliseum in San Antonio was invited to speak at the Southern Baptist Convention, I mean their convention in Kansas City. And one day I got a call, they said, we'd like to talk to you. And I said, what is it? Went down to the Gaston cafeteria in Dallas, Texas, five or six of the fellows about whom Paul said they, which seemed to be somewhat in conference, added nothing to me. That's what Paul said. Best thing he ever wrote. And so I, we sat down, we had all our food. coffee, spaghetti and meatballs, and gravy, and mashed potatoes, and fried okra, and squash, and turnip greens, and all the food that God rained out of heaven for 40 years for the Israelites while they were in the wilderness. Iced tea, water, sat down. And the head mogul said, now, Reverend Hines, any time somebody calls me Reverend, immediately I suspicion something. He said, is it true that you're preaching under Lester Roloff's tent in Corpus Christi? I said, yes, sir, that's true. Is it true that you're having John R. Rice in your church soon? I said, yes, sir, that's true. Is it true that Lee Roberson, see, the three R's got me in trouble, weren't reading, writing, arithmetic, Roberson, Roloff, and Rice. I said, is it true that you're going to have them? And I said, yes, it is. And then he said it. He said, if you do, as you preach in Rolofs 10, he said, you've spoken at your last Southern Baptist speech. Started in my toe. Worked its way all the way up and out. And I jumped up, and I hit that table. Ah! And I said, Brethren, I'm not for sale! Ice tea and spaghetti and meatballs joined with gravy on their trek toward the floor. I walked out. And I'll be honest with you. I walked out of this church. I walk out of it. A fellow stood up there one Friday of pastor school, remember it? Had question and answer time. He said, Dr. Howe, all you've said is okay for independent folks. He held up a book. He said, but I think he held the book up. He said, but our denominational handbook, you haven't said a thing to help us. What shall we do with what you said in the handbook? I said, won't it burn? Brother, this is all you need for the denominational handbook right here. It's all you need. It's all you need. He very timidly and embarrassed sat down. He very timidly and embarrassedly adverb, he was embarrassed when he sat down. About two weeks passed. I got a package from out east. Opened it up, it was nothing but a bunch of ashes. Little notes that it did burn. Is that fellow here? Where is he? Is he here? He was here last year. Is he here this year? I hold in my hand a book. By the way, another time to fight. When your denominational schools get liberal. Here's a book that's being acquired, taught, at a school that's fundamental enough where they had me preach on two occasions. It's a nominational school from a fundamental, so-called historically fundamental, nomination. It's called The Vice Lords, Warriors in the Streets. Let me read you a few of these words, this book. I hope I've got the right book. Yeah. It says the mother, capital F, a four-letter word with an ing on the end of it. It's in here. Here's the four-letter word you see on the restroom wall, starts with an F, four-letter word. It's in here. Here's one that's a four-letter word you use for human refuse. It's in here twice on this one page. Here it is twice on another page. Here's the 34-letter word starts with an F on that page. Who in the hell is going to give somebody some money unless they know what's going on? That's here. Why the hell should I give her some of my money? That's another sentence in here. Won't it burn? Yeah, it'll burn. It'll burn. Yeah, it'll burn. Yeah, it'll burn. Yeah. Now, listen to me. Don't you sit there and clap if you got some kids out of your church in that school. You get on a train Friday afternoon and fly there, you walk to the president's office and says, that book leaves or my kids leave. And you say, my money leaves too. But you say, for the hires, what would I do? I know what you'd do. You'd face God with a clear conscience. That's what you'd do. Number three, when to fight the civil government. Not what it affects the physical health and safety of They come to me and say, Mr. Howes, your school needs fire regulations improved. We'd suggest you do. I'll be glad to do it. They come and say, Mr. Howes, we'd like to know if all the young folks are vaccinated against the communicable diseases that would affect society. I'll be glad to do that. I do would endanger the physical safety of the community, and I'm obligated to see to it to keep the safety of the community. You want to inspect our buses? That's okay. Health regulations, fire regulations, no problem. The truth is we ought to make friends with our leaders. We started our school out in Crown Point and Cherville, Indiana. We had a big banquet and invited all the town officials, the leaders in the city, and had a banquet and showed them what we were going to do and tried to make friends with them. We always do that. The neighbors out there where the schools are, we had a lovely meal for all those neighbors and had them in and asked them if there was anything we could do to make it more tolerable living close to a big school like that. All we could, they were courteous and kind. We're thoughtful of them. We have no problems in Hammond. None. Never have. But you blow the trumpet when society says that you're governed one way and the public school's another way. For example, we bought 28 acres of land out in Shareville to start some schools. While we first started, while we were building, the state sent a man up here and he said, you can't build, stop it. I said, why? He said, because the state law says you can't build a school within 500 feet of railroad tracks. So I got in my car and drove to every school in Lake County, Indiana. Found every one that was near a railroad track, got me a tape measure and measured how far it was. Found three in Hammond less than 200 feet from railroad track. Two of them are brand new schools. I went to the fellow, I said, now I'm going to go take you all the way to court. He said, we'll make an exception for you. Now I think that's time to blow the trumpet, grab the sword. Then when the church program becomes under the auspices of the civil government, it's time to blow the trumpet and die. That's accreditation. You see, what we teach inside, we teach the Word of God inside our school, that doesn't hurt the neighborhood. We have buses that are dangerous, it may hurt the neighborhood. We have a German-fested area, that may hurt the neighborhood. We don't have good fire regulations, that may hurt the neighborhood. But making our students memorize the Scripture and having Christian teachers is not going to hurt the neighborhood. State of California has ruled that all church property is state property. Swallow that. Did you hear it? State of California has ruled that all church property is state property. If the pastor of each church does not fill out the forms that are to be sent to him, that property is put on the tax rolls. The taxes aren't paid within a period of time from one to five years. The property will be confiscated with the state and auctioned off, and some property of fundamental churches in California has been confiscated with the state already. Grab the sword. Grab the sword. Sound it. Time to fight. Sound it! Fight! All right, time to fight. Part of the forms that they have to fill out say if the pastor is going to preach on homosexuality, you have to send a manuscript of this message so it can be filed with the state. The pastor also has to state whether he has encouraged his people to stand on any political issue. And homosexuality and abortion are, to them, political issues. He has to also answer whether he has encouraged his people to write a particular person in the government on any issue. By the way, the legislature of California passed a rule against this stuff. All it had to do was sign to the governor. They have a law in California that if a bill lays on the desk of the governor, 30 days becomes law. No? Yeah, right. After 29 days, he still hadn't signed it. Within one day of being a law, and then he signed it. And Governor Brown of California is going to face his God one of these days. You better take your hand off God's men. In Solon, Ohio, a young man started a church in his house. The city said they could not meet in a house which stands on two and a half acres of land. They also could not park the church bus in the area because an ordinance against trucks parked in the area. In California, a church running 9,000 in Sunday school bought a house next door to the church building. They started Bible studies and the city ruled against the Bible studies being conducted in that house. In Fort Lauderdale, Florida, a certain pastor started a church, started a Christian school, a daycare center. The state is going to shut down the school because they said the facilities are not safe. Of course, they're safe for 150 on Sunday morning, but not safe for 50 on Monday morning. In Easton, Pennsylvania, a city ordinance has passed that people cannot witness after 5 p.m. any day. Would you like to bet on that? In a town in South Carolina, a person cannot go witnessing without the mayor's permission. Bet they could. On and on it goes. Marshalltown, Iowa, you have to have a permit costing $20 a year to have a church. One southern state, the IRS wants to confiscate all the records of fundamental churches. One state, you cannot issue a diploma for your school unless you get approval from the state. In some numbers of states, even a Sunday school can fall under the licensing ages of the welfare department. A church in Dallas, a pastor had to remove from the doors of the bathrooms the word boy and girl. You're supposed to take the scripture verses off the wall. A fine friend of mine in Texas was told by the state of Texas he had to have a woman on his deacon board. He was supposed to do this if he was granted a license to have a daycare center. And on and on it goes. I'm not saying we ought to go home and pick a fight. I think I ought to go home, grab the trowel, start building. And build and build and build. When a guy walks up and says it's illegal to have a trowel, grab your sword, stick him in the gut. Shall we stand? Tomorrow morning at 7, that's an awful word to end a sermon on, gut, in the solar plexus, the midsection. Tomorrow morning at 8 o'clock, the 75 of us that are still happy will come back. I'll be honest with you, if you want to do something that takes a bit of courage, you try what I tried tonight. You have the whole nation come to see you and you want them to love you. I had no axes to grind, no griping to do. I love my nation. And I believe with all my heart that if we don't heed the call to arms and fight with the right people for the right causes and not fight, we don't have to fight. We're in trouble. Don't go home. Next Sunday morning don't preach a sermon on why you deacons ought to keep your nose out of my preaching. Don't do that. Wait till they stick their nose in it and then preach the sermon. Don't do it. You have to do it. Don't go home next Sunday morning and say, some of you ladies, your husband says, can I be for that? Don't do that. Don't do that. Now, if some of the ladies stick their nose in your business, remove it. Father bless the people tonight. I wish they could see my heart. And I wish they could follow me around. And I'll be honest, I didn't want to preach this. I didn't enjoy it while I was doing it, really, in many ways. And I understand it'll go all over America with tape. I understand that.