Is it possible to believe in Christ, to be justified by faith, to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and then somehow lose all that? So that's the question we're asking and wrestling with as we think about this topic and as we look at what Scripture says. And the answer I gave last Sunday to that question, will those who have trusted Christ persevere, was this. All true believers in Christ will persevere in the faith. because they're preserved by God's sustaining grace. So yes, those who have trusted Christ will persevere because God himself will sustain them and keep them by his grace. So I actually was just listening to a song by Sandra McCracken this morning called God's Highway. And it's a song that reflects on the Christian life as a journey, as a pilgrimage to Zion, and we're on God's highway. It's really interesting in the song, the chorus says, I'm holding on to you, Lord. And then immediately after that, you're holding on to me. And that's kind of the doctrine of perseverance is, yes, we're holding on in the Christian life, but it's because God is helping us, sustaining us, enabling us. If you wanted to just put it succinctly and I could have just given you this instead of the last two minutes We perseverance by faith because preservation by grace and it's that Because of part that's really important. Yes, all who have trust in Christ will persevere in by faith because of God's preserving And so God finishes what he starts. When God sets his love on someone, saves them, forgives their sins, he's gonna finish that work. He's gonna bring it all the way to the end, the glorification which we'll get to eventually. John Murray calls this aspect of preservation by grace He calls it infallible preservation. I like that term, that phrase, infallible preservation, that God's love is unstoppable, unbreakable. We saw last week Jesus in John 6 talks about His people are in his hands, safe and secure in his hands. Nobody can snatch them from his hands. And then he also says, they're in my father's hands, and no one's able to snatch them out of his hands. So real quick, just two passages that That we looked at last sunday as we're talking about perseverance and preservation Philippians 1 6 And I am sure of this that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion the day of jesus christ Notice what paul is paul writing to the church notice what he he's uh sure of what he's confident about and it's this work of salvation to completion. And realize these are the divinely inspired words of scripture. This isn't just somebody's opinion about Christianity and life. This is God speaking through his apostle that he himself, God himself, who began this work of salvation in you will bring it to completion. And if not, then if we didn't have that confidence that God will keep us, we couldn't trust him even along the way, because you'd never know. Come through, is he going to fail? Does he wish he could do something for me, but he really You know, his hands are tied. So, you know, his promise is, I will be your God and you will be my people. It's like, well, if there's no assurance here that he's going to complete the work, it's like, I might be your God and you might be my people. Or, you know, John 3, 16, God, for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever should believe in him shall not perish, but have eternal life. And that we couldn't take that promise at face value. God gave His Son, and maybe if you believe, you might not perish. Maybe you will. But God will complete the work He began. One other passage. Actually, I don't think we did this one last week. Romans 8, 38 and 39. And this is towards the end of a long section where Paul is emphasizing the security that we have in Christ. He says, I'm sure, just like in Philippians, I am sure that nothing, and I'm substituting the word nothing, he lists, I'm sure that nothing will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus, our Lord. Again, divinely inspired words in scripture, and Paul's saying, look, nothing. Nothing is going to snatch you out of Christ's hands. Nothing's going to snatch you out of the Father's hands. Nothing is going to pull you away from the salvation that you have in Christ. God himself will complete what he starts. And then just as we finish this kind of recap part, again, writing about perseverance and preservation by Jesus. He says, have we not in this truth new reason to marvel at the grace of God and the immutability of his love? So we think about this rock-solid confidence that we have because God has promised to save. He is saving us. He will save us in the end. We have this just reason to marvel. that God's grace is so abundant and so powerful that nothing will separate us from it. So, that's what we talked about last week. So, perseverance by faith because of preservation by grace. Now, let's talk about a question that comes up. Does it matter how we live? So if God saves us and God preserves us in faith, does it really matter how we live? And Paul Tripp in his book on doctrine that we're sort of using for this class, he talks, he says, you know, the question comes up, well, if God's gonna keep me and nothing can separate me from him and I'm assured of eternal life in Christ, Can I just kind of dabble with some sin for a little while and enjoy some of the pleasures of sin? Because it ultimately doesn't matter, right? Because God's going to preserve me. Well, a simple answer to this question, does it matter how we live? A simple one word answer, yes, it does matter how we live. And let me give you a couple passages here, several passages here. Just say this very clearly and then we'll talk about it a bit more but first Corinthians 9 verse 24 Paul again writing to a group of Christians Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? and then what he says here at the end so run that you may obtain it and So notice the same apostle who says nothing's gonna separate you from God's love also says, run the race, run to win. Hebrews 10, 36, for you have need of endurance so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what is promised. So again, another, clear statement here that endurance, perseverance, continuing in the faith, continuing to grow as a Christian matters. You have need of endurance, he says. In chapter 12 of Hebrews, chapter 12 verse 1, very well-known passage. Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, Notice what he says, let us also lay aside every weight and sin which clings so closely and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us. So again, you have a scripture saying to Christians, run the race. Press on. Set aside the obstacles and the hindrances that would prevent you from continuing in the race. One other passage, Revelation 3.11. Jesus speaking to his churches, I am coming soon. Hold fast what you have so that no one may seize your crown. It's that language of hold fast, which is emphasizing, you know, Keep on keeping on. Don't let go. If we think of the Sandra McCracken song I mentioned, God's Highway, I'm holding on to you, Lord, which is what Jesus is telling his people to do. And we do that in the confidence that the Lord is holding on to us. But this question, does it matter how we live? The answer is yes. We can have rock solid confidence that God will preserve us and keep us until the end, but that doesn't mean we just live any old way we choose. And there's, let's think about this a little more. There is a view that says, answers this question, does it matter how we live? the answer would be, not really, not really. And sometimes, parts of that view can actually sound like what we've been talking about, that God preserves us by His grace, but this view often goes by the name, eternal security. Maybe you've heard that term, and people mean different things by it, but, Sometimes it's described as once saved, always saved, and there's truth to that, right? That God finishes what He starts. But in this view, well, I should back up. Everything I've been saying so far, is saying, yes, we are secure in God's grace, okay? And that God's gift of salvation cannot be taken away, it can't be lost, can't be given up, can't be misplaced, can't be forgotten, left behind, none of that. But, What we've been talking about, perseverance of the saints, is different than this idea of eternal security. And the reason is each view, the two views, locate our security differently. So let me show you how to think about this. In these two views, this is where the security comes from. So the eternal security view says, I'm secure because I decided to accept Christ. Or you could put it, I'm secure because I prayed a prayer. I'm secure because at VBS when I was seven years old, I raised my hand and said I wanted to accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. So this view says I'm secure because of some kind of decision I made at some point in my life. The perseverance of the saints view, which I've been teaching, says I'm secure because God preserves me in faith by his grace. Now do you see that these are different? that the first view is saying, well, because of something I decided to do a long time ago, or maybe it's not even that long ago, but because of some decision, some prayer, some whatever, some card that I signed, I'm saved. It's kind of like taking out an insurance policy. You sign the contract, pay the fees, and then you tuck away this policy in your safe or your somewhere secure, and you just put it away. It's just kind of this thing that you have. Or a different metaphor, because Paul used some of that race imagery. This would be like saying, well, I'm a marathoner. I signed up for the race. I paid my fees. I got my race bib. I've got the number. I think the New York marathon took place a little bit earlier today. I've got my race bib, but there's no way I'm actually going to run 26.2 miles. I didn't sign up for that. I just wanted to get the uniform. I've got the uniform. I'm good. Am I really a marathoner? No. I just look like one. Perseverance of the saints says, I'm not secure because of something I did, some decision I made, prayer I made, a prayer I offered, something like that. I'm secure because God in his sovereign grace has implanted new life in me, and he waters that new life, he nourishes that new life, he grows that new life, producing in me endurance, faith, the fruit of Christ's likeness and so forth. And I'm secure because God is a faithful gardener and he tends to his garden. Or switching up, you know, he keeps his people. Perseverance of the Saints says that we're secure because of God's doing, because of God's grace. Part of the difference here is how we view salvation. If you view salvation like the insurance policy thing, you know, it's just kind of this decision you made at a point in time and it really doesn't have any effect on your life. It's not the biblical portrait of salvation. The biblical teaching about salvation is that God And God comes and saves and transforms his people. It's not just this little insurance policy that you tuck away in your safe, that he comes and produces in his people faith and the stability, steadfastness, and so forth. Does it matter how we live? Yes, it does. And we're going to see in a few moments, or in a little bit, the evidence of genuine faith is continuing in faith. But I want to just take up one other question here as we think about, does it matter how we live? And we're saying, yes, it does. True, true Christians will persevere in the faith. Can a true Christian backslide? Can a true Christian fall into patterns of sin? Or maybe spend an extended period of time kind of wandering from the faith? maybe either through doubts and questions or indulging in sinful behavior. Is it possible? You know, as we're talking about perseverance, does the fact that God preserves his people in faith mean that like the Christian life is just one kind of straight journey? to the promised land. There's no detours, no kind of falling by the side of the road for a bit. What would you say? Yes, no. We talked about Peter last week, remember Peter? And he denies Christ three times. I would say that's a little bit of backsliding, right? That's a little bit of wobbly faith wandering, but he doesn't remain there, right? He returns to Christ. Jesus said, I've prayed for you. You know, the devil's gonna mess with you. The devil's gonna try you, test you, your faith is gonna, gonna be, you know, wobbly for a bit, but I've prayed that it won't fail completely. And when you return, I want you to strengthen your brothers. And we get a picture of Peter's restoration in John 21 as Jesus restores Peter. And the reason we'd say a true believer can backslide for a time is that Our hearts, we've been made new in Christ, but we're not finished yet, right? We are works in progress, and there's, we've talked about this in previous weeks, remaining sin, ongoing battles with the corruption in our own hearts. And that means it's possible for a Christian to fall into sin for an extended period of time. It's not going to be necessarily the final word on their life, but it's possible. And I didn't print it this week, the chapter from the confession that we've been looking at, but Chapter 17 of the Baptist Confession of Faith, the third paragraph. I just want to read it to you because it puts this very well. It says, speaking about believers, it says, and though they may, through the tempt, it's, you know, you would get a C or a D in your English composition class for writing like this, okay? So just, there's lots of relative clauses and all kinds of stuff, but, and though they may, through the temptation of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them and the neglect of means of their preservation fall into grievous sins and for a time continue therein." I'm going to stop there because it's saying true believers might get caught up in grievous sins for a time because of the temptations of Satan in the world because of the corruption of their own hearts. It's possible, they're saying, for true Christians to fall into grievous sins and for a time continue therein, which means from outward, from somebody observing, it might be like they're certainly not living like a Christian. You know, it doesn't look like they're a Christian. It says, that's possible, it says, and then it goes on. some of the effects or consequences of this, whereby they incur God's displeasure and grieve His Holy Spirit, come to have their graces and comforts impaired, have their hearts hardened and their consciences wounded, they hurt and scandalize others. and bring temporal judgments upon themselves is saying, you know, it's not like it's a nice, happy ride when a Christian's living, when a Christian's not living like a Christian. You know, it's, they displease God, their graces and comforts are impaired. In other words, they're not gonna necessarily feel like they're right smack sitting in the middle of God's love. They're not going to feel like God's smiling on me because they're living contrary to his will. Their consciences are going to be wounded. They're going to scandalize others. You know, again, somebody that's a part of the fellowship and living like that. Other Christians can be like, what is that all about? And it even wounds others. And this last part of the paragraph is really important. Yet shall they renew their repentance and be preserved through faith in Christ Jesus to the end. And if you wanna go back, go back, read that paragraph. There's a bunch of passages of scripture cited in that paragraph that you could go and read. But the point is, is it possible We're saying God preserves His people in the faith by His grace, but is it possible for a Christian for a time to live like a non-Christian? Is it possible for a Christian for a time to live in sin and to kind of wander away from the faith? Yes. It is because of the reasons we've talked about, that unholy trinity, the world, the flesh, and the devil. But, but, every one of God's children who's a true child of God, God's going to get a hold of them and bring them back to himself. That's what this is about. They shall renew their repentance and be preserved through faith. in Christ Jesus to the end. So, does it matter how we live? If God's going to keep us, if God's going to save us, and it's a sovereign work of His grace, does it really matter how we live? Yes, because salvation's not just a legal declaration that your sins are forgiven, you're justified, you're righteous in Christ. Salvation is also the implantation of new life in a person, and new life results in fruit and faith and endurance. And so, yes, it does matter. What about... Let's move on from that question, does it matter how we live? Let's move on to another question. What about believers who fall away? You know what I mean by fall away? a person who professes faith, maybe they're a member of a church for a time, and then they say, I don't believe this anymore, and I don't want any part of it anymore. Or they fall into sin and continue in sin, and no amount of appeal from fellow Christians to repent seems to get through to them, and they're disciplined and put out of the church. What should we think about that? If we're saying God preserves his people in the faith by his grace, what about these people? And we all know people that fall into this category, right? Friends, family, former church members, things like that. What should we think? Well, how do we know that someone, or how can we reasonably know that someone belongs to Christ? Or someone, put it a different way, how can we know that someone has genuine faith? What's the, what's the evidence of genuine faith? The mark of genuine faith is enduring faith. Not temporary faith. The mark of genuine faith is perseverance. So for example, Hebrews 3.14. We have come to share in Christ, which is a way of saying we belong to Christ. I think some translations say we've become partakers of Christ. We belong to Christ. We have come to share in Christ, if indeed, We hold our original confidence firm to the end. So the author of Hebrews is saying, look, genuine faith works itself out in a life of endurance and perseverance, continuing in the faith. Someone doesn't necessarily have genuine faith just because they say, you know, I prayed that prayer 30 years ago, or, You know, I went to VBS as a kid, and I'm in. Genuine faith displays itself. in endurance and perseverance. Another passage. We looked at this one last time. You know, Paul has one of these great statements. He does this elsewhere. You were this once, now you are. He says you once were alienated, hostile in mind, doing evil deeds. So that's who we were outside of Christ, dead in sin, in the grip of the power of sin. But then Paul says, he has now, God has now reconciled you in his body, Christ's body of flesh by his death in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him. So we talked about this a little bit last week. And then Paul says, if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard. You might read this and think, well, Paul just, you know, cast a bunch of doubt on the reality of our faith. And he's saying, you know, if you continue, I'm not really sure that you all are Christians. And that's not what Paul's doing. Paul's saying, this is what's true of somebody who really belongs to Christ. They continue in their faith. They not shifting from the hope of the gospel. He's saying all that's true, that Christ has reconciled you, you're no longer dead in sin, you're alive in Christ, you're no longer guilty and condemned before God, you are justified, declared righteous, forgiven of your sins, all that's true of you. And because that's true of you, you will continue in your faith. Paul's not intending to make us you know, always live kind of in doubt. So John Murray again says, the crucial test of true faith is endurance to the end, abiding in Christ and continuance in his word. So why are we talking about this? This helps us understand the nature of what it means for somebody to fall away. It helps us understand what that really is. Another word for it is apostasy. When we say somebody has fallen away, doesn't mean that they had salvation, that they were all those things we just talked about, reconciled, justified, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, being sanctified, and somehow they forfeited it. Somehow they lost it. It means that person, somebody who falls away, it means that person was never truly a genuine believer. And we're gonna see some passages that talk about this. Let me put it this way. They wore the team jersey. I was gonna say, I was gonna talk about baseball, but those stinking Dodgers won the World Series. Right, Jared? Sylvia's back there cheering. They wore the team jersey, but they weren't actually part of the team. They were imposters. So 1 John 2.19. John's talking about a group who denies Christ. They were a part of the church, but now they deny Christ. He says, they went out from us. In other words, they've left the faith. They went out from us, but they were not of us. For if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out that it might become plain that they all are not of us. Now, there's a lot that he's saying there, but he's saying, look, they left, they've left the faith, they've denied Christ, which shows they never really truly were a part of us, meaning they weren't truly part of the people of God. How do we know? that they didn't really belong to Christ. He says, for if they had been of us, if they really belonged to Christ, if they were genuine believers, they would have continued with us. Now, John's not talking about switching churches, okay? Which is something we have the luxury of in our day where there's lots of different churches to choose from and you could be a part of one church for a number of years and then go to another one or you move out of town and you've relocated and you join another church. That's not what John's talking about here. When he says they've gone out from us, he doesn't mean they started attending the church down the street. He means they've left the faith, and he says, if they had been of us, meaning the people of God, if they had truly belonged to Christ, they would have continued with us. They wouldn't have departed from the faith. So, falling away, when we say somebody has fallen away from the faith, and Jesus talks about in the parable of the sower, some fall away. We'll look at that in a moment. We don't mean a person was saved and now they're not saved. We don't mean God gave them the gift of salvation and then God took it away or they threw it away or misplaced it or whatever. We're saying the person never truly was a believer. And Jesus taught us that Not everyone who claims to be a Christian really is, right? People can say, I follow Christ. It's easy to say, but not everybody who says that really is a believer. Matthew 7. 21 through 23. This is a very sobering passage. Jesus says, not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my father who is in heaven. On that day, many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and cast out demons in your name and do many mighty works in your name? So these people are saying, they're calling Jesus Lord. And they're claiming to have been very active. Let's say, without getting into all the details here, let's say they were very active in ministry. They were serving the Lord. They were doing lots of Christian things. And Jesus says, and then will I declare to them, I never knew you. Depart from me, you workers of lawlessness. So it's interesting. These folks that Jesus is talking about claim the name of Christ. even were, let's say, a part of the church and involved in ministry and doing Christian things, but they weren't really Christians. Notice Jesus says, I never knew you. I never knew you. So not everybody who claims to be a Christian really is, which helps us understand what we're talking about when we say somebody has fallen away. One last thing, one last point on, this about falling away. Remember Jesus in the parable of the sower talks about the rocky ground. You know, he talks about the seed falling in different types of soil. In Mark 4, 5 and 6 he says, other seed fell on rocky ground where it did not have much soil and immediately it sprang up since it had no depth of soil and when the sun rose it was scorched and since it had no root it withered away. So Jesus is using this picture, this gardening picture, to talk about different responses to the gospel, different responses to him, to his kingdom. And he says, some of the seed falls on rocky ground. And yesterday, I was digging a hole in my yard. I had a plant that I planted near this hole a couple years ago, and it's never really done well. It hasn't thrived. And as I'm digging this hole, I think one of the reasons why is it's very rocky in that part of the yard. Lots of rocks, and this plant just doesn't thrive. Jesus is saying that some people are like that rocky ground. They hear the gospel, and there's a response. He says, you know, it springs up. They hear the gospel, and they're like, yes, I believe that, and they're excited, and they're a part of the church, and they're excited about the things of the Lord. But in his imagery, the sun eventually comes up and scorches the plant, and it withers away and dies. Later in the passage, he explains, you know, some hear the gospel, they get excited, and then life gets hard. That there's pressure because they follow Christ. There's hardship they encounter because they name the name of Christ, and they decide, no, not for me. And Jesus is saying here, they've shown that they're not truly a follower of Christ because when the hardship came, they withered and died. And so it's possible. I went to Bible college with a guy who had been married before he went to Bible college. His wife had left him and renounced the faith. And he said, I'm convinced, I know, without a shadow of a doubt that she was a true Christian. And so we'd have these conversations, can a Christian lose their salvation? He would say, yes, definitely. And the reason I know is because this woman that I had been married to, she was most certainly a Christian, but then she renounced the faith. What Jesus is trying to help us see here is it's possible to have spiritual experiences. It's possible to show interest in the things of the Lord. It's possible to be a part of a church and active in ministry and all these things, but not truly belong to Christ. And how do we know? Because ultimately in this parable, the person falls away. person renounces the faith. Let me go back for a moment. So all that to say, how should we think about people who so-called fall away? Well, maybe it's temporary. You know, maybe they've renounced the faith temporarily and they fall into that category of people we talked about earlier who kind of wander from the Lord, but the Lord will bring them back. Maybe that's what's going on. Or maybe they never truly were a Christian, and they will continue in their unbelief and sin. And the fact that they continue in their unbelief and sin shows they never truly believed. We're gonna talk about how to cultivate perseverance briefly, but I just wanna take up, Jacob asked about this passage last week. 1 Thessalonians 5, 19 and 20. Do not quench the spirit, do not despise prophecies, but test everything, hold fast to what is good. I just said, if a person falls away, that's evidence that they weren't a true Christian. Some would use this passage to say, look, a Christian can do this thing called quenching the spirit and lose their salvation. That's basically what you're getting at with the question, right? Just briefly, notice what Paul's actually talking about here. Not talking about salvation, he's talking about the exercise of prophetic speech in the early church. And the general negative command, don't quench the spirit, is followed with a very specific application, don't despise prophecies. That's what Paul means by quenching the spirit, is maybe somebody was muzzling the prophets in the early church, and Paul's saying, don't do that. Don't, you know, the spirit gifts each member of the congregation, don't, you know, throw a bucket of cold water on their gift. Test everything, hold fast what is good. It's not a passage about losing one's salvation. Paul's talking about the exercise of prophecy in the early church and doing it appropriately and not despising the prophetic gifts that the Lord gave to his people. That raises the whole question about prophecy in the church. I'm not even going to touch it today. But let's finish up. We have a few minutes left. Let's finish up talking about how to cultivate perseverance in our own lives. So we've talked about Persevering in the faith because God preserves us by His grace. And we've talked about, you know, what about how we live? Does it matter? What about people who wander away from the faith? All good questions, but at the end of the day, We want to individually, personally, as Christians, we want to cultivate perseverance. We want to cultivate a faith that endures, that weathers the storms we encounter, that isn't a rocky ground faith. It's a faith that lasts. How can we do that? And it's nothing complicated here. I wouldn't say it's easy, but it's not complicated. The first, thing I would say is the ordinary means of grace. God uses means to create faith, to nourish faith, and to sustain our faith. And ordinarily, God uses ordinary means. And what I mean by that is not, you know, the way God preserves us in faith is not some like Damascus Road experience. You know what I mean? Talking about Saul and confronted by this blinding light. It's very ordinary. The ordinary means of grace are the things God has promised to bless, the preaching of his word, Lord's Supper, baptism, prayer. These are the things we do when we gather as a church Sunday by Sunday. God is present among us when we gather by his spirit, and he feeds us with his word. He feeds us with the supper. He nourishes our faith. He communicates his grace to us. He communicates his power to us through these means. And let me just say here, you know, as a church, we don't have a lot of programs. Have you noticed that? We don't have a ton of programs. We have some. And it's not because we're opposed to programs or programs are bad. It's because we want to focus on what God has promised in his word to bless. these gatherings, we come together and we hear his word proclaimed and we pray together, we lift up our hearts to him in prayer, we celebrate the Lord's Supper, we celebrate baptisms from time to time. God has promised to meet us in these things. These are means he uses to sustain our faith. And so that's why we focus on these things on Sunday. So how to cultivate perseverance? Gather with God's people on Sunday. Sit under the preaching of his word. Celebrate the Lord's Supper. Another second thing, there's three if you're counting, second thing, Community. Notice Hebrews 3.13. Hebrews is all about perseverance. And it says, but exhort one another every day, as long as it is called today, that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. So I think Craig, when he was teaching on sanctification, had said sanctification's a community project. Perseverance is a community project. Should we all individually and personally be on guard against the deceitfulness of sin in our own hearts? Yes, of course. But notice the Hebrews here is saying it's actually a community effort. Exhort one another every day so that you're not hardened by sin. In other words, yes, I personally need to be on guard against letting myself be deceived by my own sinful desires, but you all have a responsibility toward me as well to help me not be deceived by sin. I have a responsibility toward you to help you not be deceived by sin. Now, obviously, this kind of relationship can only take place in the context of meaningful relationships, right? I mean, I'm not gonna just walk up to somebody I don't know and say, be on guard against that deceitful desire that's lurking in your heart. They're gonna be like, you're a weirdo, get away from me. But in a context where there's genuine Christian relationships and people who have opened themselves to each other as fellow believers in Christ, this kind of thing can happen. And so just a question for you to think about, you don't have to answer. Have you made yourself knowable to someone at GBC? If this is the kind of thing that should be going on, helping each other be on guard against the deceitfulness of sin, have you made yourself knowable to someone? Does anyone at GBC have permission to speak into your life like this? It's not easy. It's not easy. And conversely, Are you willing to know someone in this way? It's one thing to open yourself up to somebody like that, and it also takes courage to want to get to know someone else like this. It's easier just to never say the hard thing, right? It's easier to have just kind of a surface relationship and we never Never get beyond, oh, that weather this week. Hey, did you know it rained last night? That's cool. It's the first real rain of the season. Oh, I hope your week goes well. Bye. That's much easier. If you talk to me about rain today, don't feel bad. I'm not saying that. I was excited about the rain last night. are you willing to speak into somebody's life like this? So how do we cultivate perseverance? We attend to the ordinary means of grace. We engage in community life, developing Christ-centered relationships. You're not gonna know everyone well enough to have this kind of relationship. Just even in a church our size, 150 members or so, you're not gonna know everyone well enough to have this kind of relationship, but there should be some. Should be some people you know well enough that they can speak to you, you can speak to them. And then finally, and I'm not gonna spend time on this, the third thing is just cultivating a life of daily prayer, meditation on God's word, being exposed to the means of grace in that private way, you know, individually in private worship. So let me, we do have a couple minutes for questions. And the great thing about me not being on the schedule to teach next week is I can say, well, we'll get to that next week, and then Craig will have to answer it. But one moment. One, so I got a couple questions for you. Let me list them to you, and then you can kind of pick which way you want to go. They're like we talked about last week. What do you find confusing or disturbing about the doctrine of perseverance? What do you find encouraging or hope-giving about perseverance? And then kind of the catch-all, what other questions do you have about perseverance? And first, The women here tend to hold back and not speak in public. And so I want to specifically ask the women to weigh in first. And then I'm going to open it up to everybody. But I want to hear from some of the women in here. And Cindy's got her hand up. So I have the mic. One second. Let me hand it to somebody. It's like a race, a baton handoff. I can, but not through the mic. Yeah. So I was thinking about that slide where you had eternal security and perseverance, and I would like to suggest maybe there's another way of thinking about someone who says, I accepted Jesus, and so now I'm a Christian. Like, I know that that actually is what I would have said when I was four years old, and as time has gone along and as I've grown in my understanding of the gospel and things, now I recognize, okay, that was God starting to work in my heart, but now I I recognize that God is the one who brought me to himself. I forgot the words on the other side. So when we hear someone say that, it could be just that they haven't come to a full understanding of how God is working in their heart. It's not necessarily, oh, you can't be a believer, but maybe you're just growing and you're in the process. And hopefully in time, you'll come to see, actually, how God really was working, but that might be like a beginning point. Yeah, and there's a difference between somebody who shows evidence of being a Christian and uses language like that versus somebody who says, well, I went forward at an evangelistic meeting and they, you know, to use kind of older language, they live like the devil. You know, they have no interest in Christ, no interest in God's people, but they say, I did this thing. There's a difference, right? Yeah. Let me... I haven't opened it up to everyone yet. Still one more. OK, Elise. And then I'll open it up. See, I'm limiting you by gender right now. I'm not. I just want to thank you. for reminding us about the comfort of perseverance. I got saved in 1971, and if you had looked at my life at any one given point of time, you might have said, oh, you're really not saved. But I'm thankful that the Lord has hung on to me for all these years. And that's the only comfort that I have in life or in death. Right? So, so thankful for that. Thank you for the reminder. Welcome. All right. I'm going to not test Bruce's patience any longer. He had his hand up. He's got the mic. in Hebrews 3.13 really caught my attention. And that word exhort, can you go a little bit deeper into that word? Yeah, I mean it can depending, it can mean to encourage, it can mean to, it could mean something closer to admonish, you know. So depending on what what the context is, exhorting somebody might be encouraging them in Christ. You know, I see the Lord at work in you. Or, hey, trust in Christ. He's, you know, His power, His grace is sufficient. It could mean if you're talking with a friend who's maybe indulging in a certain sin or going down a path that is clearly unwise and not good, it might mean a little more direct admonition. You know, hey, God's Word says that, you know, somebody who claims the name of Christ shouldn't be engaged in things like this. Or God's Word says that direction you're going, that's foolishness. And, you know, He gives His people wisdom to say no to foolishness. So depending on on the context and what it is you're interacting with the person on, it might be very positive, or it might have a stronger kind of negative sense. Oh, now I have to choose. Okay, all right. Charlene says Darcy should go first. I was wondering if you could speak a little bit Cindy's question made me think about children and in this issue and Those of us who have young children or work with children in our children's ministry and stuff like how would you speak or or? To a kid that might be struggling maybe am I a Christian yet or not, you know, and I know I love Jesus and, and yet you can see just some, some have really tender hearts and, you know, and yet they pray the prayer of, you know, you get all these, you know, as an adult, you're like, oh, this feels too big for me. I just wondered if you could speak to that just a little bit. So which aspect? Would it be like encouraging a kid? Both. I think we've had experiences like all around, right? With a kid that's like struggling and like they're saying, yeah, I do believe this, but then I don't feel like I know Jesus or something like that. And then we've also had other children, right? Where it's like, they're saying, I'm a Christian. You're like, well, what you just did was, you know, it's like, it just is such a, it's so complicated for adults. Like, I was wondering if you could speak to it just a little bit about how we address our children. Yeah. I think, um, Believing in Jesus is a good thing, right? We all want that for the kids, either our own kids or kids we know. And a child who shows interest in the things of the Lord, I think we want to encourage that. I think we want to foster that kind of thing. We don't, you know, we don't have to tell them, we'll pray this prayer and then you're good. We can say, the Bible says, you know, whoever believes on the Lord will have eternal life. And we can encourage them with the Bible promises, encourage them to continue cultivating knowledge of the gospel, faith in the Lord. With kids, it's hard to tell. Is this genuine faith? Is this just they're going along with their parents? I don't know. You know, time will tell. And so it's not like when they're four years old, it's like, I got to figure this out before they turn five. Time will tell. A kid who says they believe in Jesus, but they They hit their sibling over the head with a toy. Well, we all do that as adults. We just do it in different ways. It's not necessarily an indication they don't believe in Jesus, right? So that's an opportunity maybe to talk to children about the reality that even Christians continue to sin. What do we do? when we sin, we confess our sins to the Lord, we receive fresh forgiveness. And again, time will tell, you know, time will tell if it's just a kid saying to their parents what they think their parents wanna hear so that they can get something from their parents versus genuine faith. So overall, I think it's good to encourage, you know, a kid who's saying, I wanna believe in Jesus, I wanna trust in Jesus, encourage that. Give them the encouragement that the word of God gives, that God promises to save everyone who puts their faith and trust in him, just like that's the same assurance you would give to an adult. Don't give them false assurance by pointing to, well, you went to VBS and did this thing. No, say what the Bible says. Charlene, did you still wanna? Yeah, okay, Jared's right there. We'll see what I say. It's okay to talk two weeks in a row. Thank you, Darcy. I think that was a really great question. And I think, too, what I'm about to say kind of speaks to that, in a way. Like, basically what I said last week, as parents, as teachers, as wives, husbands and wives, friends, even co-workers, if you're working with believers, or non-believers, we tend to take on, at least maybe I do, I don't know about anyone else, the seriousness and maybe even the pressure of sharing Christ, and living Christ, and living maybe perfectly Christ, so that the world can see, so we're that light in the dark world. But we must also remember always, that's His work, And that's what you brought out so beautifully. Thank you. That's such an encouragement. And so we just remember every day that, every minute of every day, our dependence on the Lord. And when we live that and the kids see us living dependent on Him, sometimes an issue comes up and it's like, let's just pray. We need to pray about this. And if, say, anybody pushes back on that, then I say, I have nothing. I have Christ, and that's all I have, so I need to pray. So, I don't know, I find it really encouraging and also a lifting of a burden to knowing that God is doing that work. He's going to do that work in their hearts, in their souls. He's going to call them, He's going to draw them, and He's going to do the work. and he's gonna make them persevere in it. And then like you said, time will tell. I always think that with the kids, okay, great, it all looks good, but we're gonna find out when something really hard hits, we're gonna find out where their heart goes. Does it run to God or does it run away from God? And even then, God still can have his hand on them. Even if they run from him, it's okay. because God still can, he can still snatch him back. Anyway, and I think probably a lot of us have those stories. So anyway, that's all. Thanks. All right. That clock's telling me we're over time. So let's, I'll pray. And then if you have other questions, feel free to come and ask them. And if I don't know the answer, I'll try to figure out the answer for you later. Or I'll just say, ask Craig next week. All right, let's pray. Our Father in heaven, we thank you for your almighty grace that has come and lifted us up out of the grave of spiritual death and made us alive in Christ. We pray that you would continue to nourish and sustain that life, that you would nourish and sustain our faith in Christ, that even when we face different challenges and trials and difficulties, that you would keep us and preserve us. We pray also that you would help us not to give up on family and friends who have either never believed or seem to have believed at one point. We're not so sure now, Lord. We pray that you would save them. We pray that you would help us not to lose heart in praying to you and hoping that your power can overcome their unbelief. And so, Father, we praise you for your great and precious promises to us in Christ. We rest ourselves on your grace, your love, and your mercy that have come to us in Christ. It's in his name we pray, amen.