You'll see the screen. We're supposed to introduce this, so this has to do with a workshop concerning lesser known but important truths in relationship to walking in freedom. The reason I'm interested in this is that when you work with people, as I mentioned a moment ago in the larger auditorium, you run into problems, and the people, as far as you know, are as dedicated as the Apostle Paul, and they are committed to what they're doing, and they understand the truth, and best they know, they're practicing it 100%, and they still have problems. I'm very compassionate for people like that because that's been a part of my life for a long time. And that's why I have given you a lot of handouts that you find in the book that is there in your hand. I know you haven't had time to read them. But I wanted you to have a lot of those handouts, and I want you to leap along through some of those as we go through the session here this afternoon. I'm told now I'm supposed to tell you my name. So my name is Victor Matthews. Let's put a tape now. And so what I'd like to do now for about an hour is to talk with you about some of the truths that we usually do not read about in books. Now before we begin, let's bow together in a word of prayer. Dear Father, we are very grateful that we belong to you. That we do not know what we would do without you. We confess together that we believe only in you, the true and the living God. And we repudiate together the kingdom of darkness and every evil way. And we open our lives to you, blessed Holy Spirit of God. And we invite you into this workshop. Come, blessed Holy Spirit, minister to us. Teach us how to understand your word. Teach us how to put it into practice. Glorify yourself in our lives. We're needy people. We work with a lot of needy people. And we pray that you would bless us together now in these moments. For we ask it in the name of the Lord Jesus and for his sake alone. Amen. Well, I'm still thinking about power encounters versus truth encounters. And I tried to say, and I wanted to say one more thing, and we all ran out of time, that you really can't divide that, I guess I tried to say that, and I was going to read some verses that emphasize that so very clearly. You remember 1 Corinthians 4, chapter 4 and verse 20 reminds us that the kingdom of God is not in words only, but in power. So here we have the word that brings the power of God to pass. You remember in 1 Thessalonians chapter 1 verse 5 where Paul said that my gospel came not unto you in word only but also in power and in the Holy Spirit. Wouldn't it be great to always minister like that? Where your word had a powerful effect upon people because of the ministry of the Holy Spirit? Well, that's what we ought to aim for every day. That's how God expects us to live. The very crucial verse that I wanted to talk about has to do with Ephesians chapter 6, verse 17. That our weapon, of course, is the sword of the Spirit, the word of God. You may be interested, and most of you probably know, that the word, word, in that verse is not logos, which is talking about the content of what it says. But rhema, which is the speaking of the word. In other words, I'm using it again in a third way now, the word, word. We have to understand what the Bible teaches. We have to be committed to it by surrendering to the person that we're talking about, the Lord Jesus. And then we have to use that word And when we do, then what God the Holy Spirit will do is to come into our lives and use what we say as a sword. In other words, we all need to help one another get involved in the ministry of the word so that God the Holy Spirit can use it. This is his work and not ours. That's why you can never separate power encounter from truth encounter. Because using the truth correctly is a very, very powerful thing, whether we understand it or not. A number of years ago, I was asked to go to, I do a lot of interim church work where churches do not have pastors, and I do a lot of preaching on Sunday where the church or the pastor is ill or on vacation. I remember there was a time a few years ago where the Our church asked me to come and preach on Sunday, and I went there and said something from the pulpit that really angered a woman. And she said, I want to talk with you more about this. Would you come over to the house? We're having some people over. Come over, and we'll have a sandwich and a cup of coffee. And I really want to talk to you about this. Well, I thought, I can't back down on this, even though I had a lot of miles to drive. So I went over, and she really, she fed me a sandwich and a cup of coffee, but she really worked me over. And I couldn't figure out why she was working me over, because I thought I'd said everything correct. So as soon as I could get her quieted down, I excused myself and went home. About six months later, the same church called me up and said, would you come preach again? Well, I always take the first person who calls, so I wouldn't want to break that principle. So I said, sure. And I started thinking about this woman. She's laying for me again, you know. So I was standing there by the door, and I could see the people come in from the parking lot, and here I saw her come. I thought, what am I going to say to this woman? So she came in, and she shook my hand, and she said, do you remember when you were here last time? I said, yeah, I remember. But I smiled and was kind of gracious, and she said, you know what, you said, just turn my life around. Now the point I'm trying to make is that many times we do not know how the Holy Spirit is taking what we're saying and ministering to people. This is something where we need to enter into it by faith. We need to learn how to use the Word of God in our own lives so that God's Holy Spirit can take it like a sword and that he can deal with the enemy and he can work with error bring comfort and healing and maturity and consolation into the lives of people. It's important for us to realize, like I've already mentioned, that the real key is not shouting at the enemy, but the place that we give the Lord Jesus in our lives. It's a matter of internalizing and then practicing the truth. I have found in my life so genuinely that the way the enemy has worked on me is through error. So let me put a couple of diagrams on the screen here. This is how the enemy gets to you and to me. Many times we do not understand its error. Many times we don't realize that behind the problem we're having is some kind of an error that we have been taught or some kind of a way that we're living. I mentioned earlier this afternoon about something about my family and about my ancestral line. Many times the error is our attitude of life. My mother and father were both very negative and bitter people. My mother had polio when she was a young girl. When she was a young teenager. And the doctor that treated her also seduced her. And molested her over a period of time. It did two things for my mother. It awakened her sexually too soon. and made her very desirous of sex, and it made her hate sex and men on the other hand. So there were two things going in her life at the same time, which I have found is very true in the life of many people. Many people who can't leave sex alone, they also hate it at the same time. And you know what that does in a person's life? It creates all kinds of static. Well, because of that, because of the fact that my mother was a cripple, And my mother had been molested. And she had this demonic thing in her life that she never knew about, although she cooperated with it when she got in trouble. She lived a very miserable kind of a life. My mother was a very angry and a bitter person. Now, I'm not blaming her a bit. She had problems far beyond what she passed to me. My mother was a moral, fine, hardworking, honest person. And I honor her. She did well with the problems that were in her life, but she did not have help. She didn't have a church that could minister to her. And I honor my mother, even though she got me in trouble. My father was a very angry and bitter person. He was a hardworking, moral, upright, honest person, as honest as the day is long. But my father, who had a very high IQ, was very angry, bitter in life because he never had an opportunity to go to school. So he could barely read and write. He knew that the way he had been raised cheated him from life itself. And I didn't know my father couldn't read and write until I was about 35 years old. I was the only boy in the family. I was raised on a little dairy farm. And I, of course, working on the farm, we did everything by hand back in those depression days. And so my father felt very badly about himself. Here I could read and write and he couldn't. That made him feel very jeopardized and very envious and jealous of me. So he had to prove every day that he was a better person than I was. And so I grew up believing I was a very inferior and worthless kind of an individual. Well, That attitude of life is the error that I'm talking about here. Some of the errors are doctrinal. If you have been raised in the wrong kind of a church, or if you need to look at your church through the Bible, and you need to make very sure that you are being taught the truth. Now don't take that statement and go back and blow your pastor out of the water with it now. You need to be very careful and to realize, however, that you are responsible, ultimately, for what is being taught to you and not the pastor. And he may be a very godly and a fine person who may be teaching you error in some way. Error may be an attitude. Like I mentioned a moment ago, the home in which I was raised made me a very angry and bitter person, a very negative person, simply because I got that from my parents. And a part of a very serious error in my life was negativism. That is, I had a real hard job believing that life would ever be joyful or that life would ever come through. I was very, very negative about life. I was very, very suspicious about people. And I get along with dogs pretty well, but not with people. Because that's sort of how I was raised. Now I've gotten rid of that an awful lot because of the grace of God. But I'm just talking about some of the errors that we have. So there are many ways that the enemy can work on us by error. And we have to understand that. Let me put another diagram on the board that will sharpen this a little bit. When we look into the Bible, we realize that Error is always related to sin. That sin and error are just two sides of the same coin. Now maybe you haven't thought about that, and that's why I put some verses here on the screen. It's important to realize that when a person practices, when a person chooses to sin, they're practicing an error. Now maybe you never thought about that, and this probably is hitting you in the wrong way, but I want you to consider it. Really do not believe that a committed Christian Hardly ever chooses to sin. I Think we're seduced into it by error. I Think that we we are led by error to believe that we're a special case I've had many people in my office who have been involved in sin and And when I say, don't you realize that that's a sinful thing they're doing, it comes to them as sort of a shock. Even though they, what they're doing is contradict something in the Bible where they're told not to do it, but they never, they don't see it that way. They think that their case is such a, that they have such a great need that living the way they do seems to be okay because they're a special case. Now all of us, all of us think we have rights that we're trying to practice that get us involved in sin. And one very important way of finding how the enemy is working on us is that when we're having difficulty to find the source of it, where did the thing start? This is usually what I ask people when they come. And after we get a few counseling sessions going, Then many times I will ask the person, where did this start in your life? Where did the problem begin? What happened? Where did the negativism begin in your life? Let me give you a little illustration again out of my own life. This is a little hard one for me to give it to you, but I've been able to work through this, so it's kind of embarrassing for me to say this, but it may help you a little bit. I have always had this sort of a negative attitude towards people that you can never really trust them. Let me tell you about my first memory about my father. The first memory I had was standing in the middle of the living room. I was about two and a half, three years old. And I suddenly realized that something was, some kind of great pressure was there in the family. Everybody was very disturbed. My mother was disturbed. Although she was faceless in this memory. I had three sisters, although they were there, although they were there faceless, there's not really a part of this memory. My father was very prominent in this memory. And the moment I became aware that something was a lot of static in the family, my first memory now, my father went to the door and a man came through the door. He was dressed in black and he was a real big man. And he was carrying a black little bag. Of course, you know what he was. He was the doctor. My father took me by the hand, and in our living room, there was a door, and the door opened into the bathroom. When you opened the door, you saw the stool. The doctor went in there. My father took me by the hand, and I was led into the bathroom. As you can understand, I was a little concerned. He put down the top of the stool with a big bang. picked me up and stood me on top of the stool, and without closing the door, he reached over and grabbed my pants and pulled them down. Well, there I was, about a three-year-old, and you know how the tummy of a three-year-old looks. It looked like this, and my little jacket or whatever I had on, like a T-shirt, came up over, and I looked down, and here was everything male hanging out. My mother was looking, my three sisters were looking, and the doctor was interested, and for some reason, My father had me there, and I don't know even now what the problem was. Probably he was doing what was right. But in that moment, if you're a psychologist here, you know what I was thinking about. That I was going to lose everything that it made me a male. From that moment on, how did I interpret that? I interpreted that in such a way I thought my father, I cannot be trusted. That man is going to destroy me. So for all of the rest of the time that I had with my father and he died at 96. So I got good genes and chromosomes. I'm 71, but I'm just getting started. I got many good years yet to go. So for all of those years, I never really trusted my father. You know what that was? That was error. I'm saying this only because I want you to look back into your past and to ask the question About the error that you have accepted and because you've had it right from the very beginning You don't call it error and you don't realize the sin That you're practicing through believing that error Have found that this kind of a relationship with people is is really very important because let me put a similar diagram on the screen The way the enemy gets to us is something like this We have these three enemies of the world of flesh and the devil In the areas where we're practicing the truth you notice it bounces off how true that really is So important for us to see that But where we're practicing error, what's happened to us is that the enemy can get to it. The world can get to it. The old nature can get to it. And this is what I find to be so very, very important. With this kind of a background now, if you would take the manual you have, let me work along on some of these lesser known but very important Proves that we need to know so that we can be free people First of all I'd like you to take a look at the at the handout you have entitled taking charge of our thinking And also the one on the protection Suggestions regarding spiritual protection I just want to point this out now because if we're going to understand the error that the enemy will use in our lives, we need to take charge of our thinking. Let me put one more diagram here on the board that will help us with that. Here is something that's very, very important. Yes, sir. Why, sure. I'll be glad to. All right. Can you see that all right now? OK. I want you to think about this for a little while. You see, we have four basic functions. We're basically a person. And I wish I had an hour now to talk with you about what it means to be a person. We have all kinds of rights and privileges given to us by God as a person. To be a person, as Neil has been emphasizing, and I can't tell you how important it is, to be a person means that we have been created in the image and likeness of God, but we are sort of an analog of God. And this means that we have great value and that we're very important. That's why God calls a believer his inheritance, as found about 12 times in the Bible. We're God's inheritance. I don't know how a kind of a home in which you were raised, but Every every person has the right to be heard when they speak Every person has the right to have needs and every person has the right to have their needs met And every person has the right to express their emotion Every person has the right to have opinion different from the people are living with We have all of these rights and they're given to us by God and Because this is a part of what it means to be created in the image and likeness of God. When God created Adam, he created him as a spiritual person. And that's basically what we are. We're not basically bodies. Have you discovered that yet? You're not your body. You're different from your body. Your body is only one way that you function. That's why I have the diagram like this. You're not particularly mine. You're not particularly will. You're not particularly emotion. These are only our function. The most important thing I could say to you as you look at this diagram is that you are not your function. You're a person. And as a person, you are basically and fundamentally spirit. Your basic characteristic is that you're a spiritual person. Now, because we're a fallen person and because we're living in a fallen world where all of the priorities are out of joint, what happened to us is that many times we put the emphasis in the wrong place. Almost all of us here in this workshop this afternoon wish that we wish that there were some very profoundly important things different in our lives. Why? Because we don't measure up to the people that we respect and honor. We would all All of us as men would like to look like the most handsome man. And all of you women would like to look like some beautiful woman. We would all like to rearrange things, right? Well, true anyway. We'd all like to have more money. We'd like to have a better education. We'd like to be older or younger. You understand what I'm saying? We fail to realize that we're all spirit and we all have exactly the same level in the New Testament church. Now the pastor has different gifts than we do because he's been called to equip us for our work. But you understand that the pastor doesn't have, he's not up here and you're down here. There isn't a pastor-laity relationship in the Bible where there's a difference of value, where we all come in on the same level, whether we're a man or a woman or a boy or a girl, whether we can read or whether we can't read, whether we have an education or whether we don't have an education, whether we're old or whether we're young. There is a sense of profound equality. And it grows out of the fact that our value is not based on how we look. We all come in different shapes and sizes. And we come with a few colors. And it has nothing to do with our value. All of that is error. We have to realize the truth about that, that we are persons. and that we're basically and fundamentally a spiritual person. Now until an individual accepts that totally, then they're not going to have lasting freedom. So we're not our function. Now what am I trying to get around to finally here? What I'm trying to get around to is very simple, but very hard to live with. And that is that what goes through your mind doesn't tell you who you are naturally. Just because you have certain types of thoughts, That isn't particularly an evaluation of the kind of a person you are. The enemy can put thoughts in our mind, right? Did he do that with Eve? Yes, he did, before she was a sinner. Did he do that with the Lord Jesus? Yes, he did. He tempted the Lord Jesus, put thoughts in his mind. If he could talk to Eve before she became a sinner, and if he could talk to the Lord Jesus, my friend, he can talk to you. The way that he talks to us is most of all in a sort of a subliminal way. And it's very difficult for us to catch him because he's been talking to us from the time we were born. This goes back right at the beginning. We have an idea today somehow that you have to commit some kind of a terrible sin for the enemy to start to work on you. That's not the way it is in the Bible. Why does the enemy work on us? He works on us because we belong to the Lord Jesus or he knows we will belong to the Lord Jesus. He works on everybody. The enemy does that through wicked spirit. How does he get to us? Basically, he gets to us through our thinking, through our emotion, through our bodily desires, through the weakness of our will. Well, that's why I have given you the handout now that you're looking at which is entitled taking charge of your thinking and In the one that has to do with the protection It is number six if you would take a look at that for a moment I Say here that when aware of condemning accusing erroneous or tempting thought Respond to such an activity with the truth You see it there? Number six. It is suggestions regarding spiritual protection. There's a handout. What's that, sir? All right. This way? All right, good. OK, page 25. Thank you. And so what I'm saying here, that when you are under accusation and you have all of this kind of a problem in your life, then do what I'm saying here. That is, In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, I take charge of my thought life, my emotions, bodily desires, will, family, finances, job. I choose independence on you to bring all of my thoughts into subjection to Jesus Christ. And I refuse that thought of and then name what it is. What I'm asking you to do here, and I think it's so very, very important, is to take charge of your thinking process. If you do not take charge of it, it's very easy for the enemy to do so. for the world to take charge of it, or for your emotional life to take charge of it, or bodily desires. And what you have is a lot of error that is being produced in your life. Maybe some of you would like to talk with me about that afterward. I'll be glad to stay around and work on that if that's a problem. The second thing I want to work on is the sheet on protection, number seven. You're holding it there in your hand. And this is the principle of James 4.7. So I say when you have something in your life that you're not sure as to its origin, or whether it's right or wrong, then the following prayer and affirmation that reflects James 4, 7 may be helpful. You remember the verse reads, yield yourself to God, resist the devil and he'll flee from you. Remember the verse? Well, how do you put that into a principle? Say that you have this recurring headache on Sunday morning. You get up and you're going to teach your Sunday school class and All of the other days you get up and you don't have this headache, and now you see that almost every Sunday morning you get up and you have this kind of a headache. And you're taking good care of yourself. You don't stay up late on Saturday night. So let me suggest you do something like this. Make it a prayer. Heavenly Father, if this headache or sickness or responsibility or relationship or feeling is of you, if it's a way of the cross for me, if it's the ministry of the Holy Spirit, then I accept it and thank you for it. However, if this, and then name it again, is not from you, but from the enemy, then I reject it and will not have it in my life. And I pray that you guide me in this matter so I may have the freedom to live for your glory. This may look very simple for you, but it's very, very effective. Let me tell you the first time that it became very clear in my life. I had been taught this principle by an individual in Bible school, hadn't paid much attention to it. But I was a pastor and a teacher, and I was on the way to a Bible conference in the Midwest somewhere. I'd come from Grand Rapids to Chicago. I was waiting for the transfer to a plane to go to this city where I was going to have the Bible conference. And suddenly I became very, very ill. I realized that I was nauseated, I had a fever, and I was increasingly becoming sick. I told the Lord, well, I guess I'll have to go home and go to bed. I'll have to call these people and cancel the Bible conference. Then I thought about the fact that I wasn't sick this morning. When I got on the plane from Grand Rapids, I'm almost never sick. So I used the James 4-7 principle. I said, now, Lord, if this sickness is of you, if this is something you want me to have, and if you want me to go home, then that's okay. But if this is of the enemy to keep me from this Bible conference, then I refuse to accept it. And I bring the power of the blood of Jesus Christ against it. In about 30 or 40 seconds, I was much better. And I went on and had a very, very important Bible conference. Don't overlook the fact that your will and your mind and your emotions and your bodily desires can very easily come under the under the influence of the enemy. We're very vulnerable to the enemy. We're fallen people. Saints, 100%. But we're saints that are very vulnerable. And the enemy knows how to get to us. The third one that I'd like to talk about, and let me say again that if some of you want me to work on this, I'll see you afterward. Number three is the matter of breaking relationships. And this is on the sheet you have there in your hand on protection. Number eight. Don't forget that this workshop is designed to help people who are doing everything right, but it's not working. So maybe you never will get into a problem where you need some of this material, but that's the reason I've designed it like that, because it becomes very discouraging to people when they're doing everything right and it doesn't work. So I'm talking about breaking relationships. I have number eight here in order to limit what the enemy can do through other people. It's often helpful to break the spiritual relationship that the enemy may have set up. Notice now, these are spiritual relationships. I'm not saying that a person should stop talking to a relative. This is something that's purely spiritual. The first time I knew this, first time I recognized this is that I was working with a person who had been inducted into a satanic cult and very seriously Made a member of this cult and was sexually abused. I Was just learning how to do this. I was learning by making a lot of mistakes and The person that I was trying to help was willing to put up with me My wife and I were working with this person It was in the middle of the night We were in our family room. We had a height of bed in the family and in order for to work with this person Since they would usually faint when I started to work with them we had opened up the bed and the person had slacks on and a big sweatshirt and they were Stretched out on the bed and my wife and I were praying with them trying to help. I Got around to a place where? Something very serious started to happen The person started to be lifted up off the bed and bounced down hard on the bed. And there's no prayer that I could offer, no command that I could make that would stop it. Scared the life out of me. I mean, the person would just, they weren't bending at all. They were just being lifted up and slammed down on this height of bed. I was, I was afraid for them. And those years when that happened, what I always did was to call my good friend, Ernest Rockstead. Eileen Rockstead is here at the conference. Many of you know her. I used to call Ernie. Many times it was 2.30 and 3 o'clock in the morning. So Ernie would answer the phone and I said, Ernie, this is my problem. What am I going to do? So I called him and I said, Ernie, this is happening. He said, break relationship. I said, what's that? And so then he told me the principle. So I broke relationships with my father. Nothing happened. The person still pounded down on the bed. Then I used the formula that Ernie had given me. I broke relationships with my mother and stopped. And I was taught a very great lesson. And you can have a relationship, some kind of a spiritual relationship with a person, where the individual may not know that this power is coming down through their life into your life, but that can be a reality. Now, I urge all of you to follow the instructions I have here. Make a list of all of your close living relatives. And people that are, that where you have some kind of a very powerful relationship, like a pastor, employer, or some person where you've had all kinds of difficulty with them, no matter what you try to do. Husbands and wives got a great relationship with one another every day. I'm talking about what you do when you're trouble. When you're in deep trouble, I'm not talking about doing this every day, but when you're in trouble, do it every day for a while until you break what's happening. This is not a prayer. This is just a spiritual affirmation. So I ask people to take that list of names, like a man who shaves every morning, prop it up when he's shaving. And so he'll remember what you do. and then use my statement here in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ I cancel and break all relationships set up by Satan and wicked spirits between and then name the person and myself I smash down all of those relationships and all the effects those relationships have had upon me. Kind of important when you do this sometimes when people are satanically and ritualistically abused they'll faint the first time they go through this. And you help them to make a list of people who have been very, very deeply involved with them. And many times it'll cut down the demonic power that's coming into the life of the person. Now, I don't believe this is necessary for all of you, nor is it necessary for you to do this all the time. I'm talking to you about what happens when you really get in trouble. If you're practicing the Christian life, And you can't live the way you want to. You can't get something out of the Bible when you read the way you know you should. You don't have freedom to pray. Well, I would ask the Holy Spirit to help you. And then I would read through my many suggestions to see what the Holy Spirit will do. Maybe he will tell you something. Maybe he will make something very real in your life. I have found in my life that this is a very effective thing. Because I work with a lot of individuals that are in trouble. And when I counsel a person who has been ritualistically abused and is having a great deal of difficulty, I break relationships with that person. And I find it sets me more free in living the Christian life. Yes, sir? It's purely a spiritual relationship set up by the enemy. Both. Both. Particularly I'm thinking of yourself. It has a good effect upon the person. It's purely a spiritual relationship. Now sometimes we read about this in books where it talks about a spirit bonding of some kind. Or if a person has been involved sinfully with an individual, particularly in a sexual way, often there is a spiritual relationship set up between that person and yourself. This is why the Bible thoroughly warns us not to get involved sexually with people. And you remember 1 Corinthians chapter 6 where we're told the devastation that comes into the life of the person who is a fornicator or an adulterer. Remember how the book of Proverbs talks about this. This is very important. Mrs. Bubek, yes. Say it again, Matt. Okay, I'm sorry his question had to do with whether this is like Bonding a spiritual bonding and whether it has to do with the person or with yourself Yes, ma'am Because she was involved in the occult a lot of that power was coming through her into my life With her with my yet. In other words, what I was doing was making a spiritual affirmation of truth. Don't forget now that's power. I was giving the Holy Spirit that which he could use as a sword. And I was declaring that I was not going to allow the occult power in the life of my mother to flow into my life. So by canceling the relationship that Satan had set up between my mother and myself, I broke that power. And the demonstration of it is that the person wasn't hammered down on the bed anymore. That taught me a very serious lesson. Now I know we live in a very secular kind of a world and it's very hard for many of you to believe that anything like that could happen. But let me just tell you, counsel with people and just live a little bit and you'll find it. Right. Most of the time in our daily lives we do not see it that clearly. We only know that we are not able to read the Bible the way we want to or get something out of the Bible. Now we all have trouble with that. We're all going to have to recognize how easy it is to sit there and read the time magazine, but now when we pick up the Bible, suddenly we're sleepy. Our mind is very clear when we're reading the textbook on logic, and now we pick up the Bible and start reading, and now we have difficulty thinking. This is clear as day. We're working through the book on logic and philosophy class, now we pick up the Bible. And now we're having trouble understanding the principles of the Bible. Who do you think's behind that? Oh, we have trouble praying. We can't concentrate. We can talk for hours with individuals and we're just as clear as day and now we start praying and we can't concentrate. Well, who's behind that? Well, many times I have found that people need to break relationships and look for what happens in your life when you do that. See if it starts to clear things up. Now a person can be just as true as can be, just as committed as can be. And the enemy may not be working in their life at all. And yet the power may be coming through them into your life. You may have parents that are just very, very fine, godly people who've had nothing to do with the alcohol. You know who's in your ancestral line as well as I know who's in my ancestral line. You've had people involved in the fertility cult in your ancestral line. You've had witches and warlocks in your ancestral line. You've had people who bought and sold slaves. You have people in your ancestral line that had abortions. You've had people in your ancestral line that have done almost every bad thing we can ever think about. Now if somebody hasn't broken that, some of that garbage in a very subliminal way may be pouring into your life.