100 points. I'm Lisa Brady, Fox News Radio. knowing the truth with pastor kevin bowling is a live call-in radio program providing doctrinal dialogue cultural commentary and insightful interviews with some of today's foremost christian authors and leaders knowing the truth is the outreach ministry of the mountain bridge bible fellowship located on highway 25 in travelers rest the goal of the church and the radio program is to Seek the glory of God in the salvation of sinners and the sanctification of the saints by the ministry of the Word. For more information, go to www.knowingthetruth.org. Here with today's edition of Knowing the Truth is Pastor Kevin Bowling. a welcome into this thursday edition of the knowing the truth radio broadcast this is pastor kevin bowling and we're going to be talking today about technology which is certainly something that i'm interested in in a previous life here before going full-time in the pastoral ministry I spent quite a bit of time in the technology area. I was chief operating officer for a company that dealt with telephony equipment and also information technology aspects there. And so I actually organized a group here in the Greenville, South Carolina area that was known as the Greenville Information Technology Professional Alliance. We got together about 1,000 IT professionals every year, had lunch, and brought in folks like Microsoft and Symantec and other folks to speak at those types of events. I actually had a radio program that was on Saturday morning called Tech Talk, and we would bring folks in and we would talk about technology-related issues. So this is something that I'm certainly interested in, is the whole area of technology. And even more so, the title of today's broadcast is God's Technology. And so we're going to be looking at this from a perspective of being a believer, of being a Christian. Of course, I'm a believer myself and also a pastor, so I'm interested in how the people in my own congregation are using technology. And I'm interested in helping them and encouraging them and helping them to see how they can use the technology that we have in a way that is honoring to God. That's the aspect of what we're going to look at today on the program. You know, we're actually living in the second decade of a digital revolution, a revolution that is proving to be even more momentous and world-changing than the industrial revolution. I was mentioning the other day I was sitting with some folks they were watching a football game on a cable news network or a cable sports channel and all of them while they were watching the the game take place also had smartphones in their hand and they were checking out other scores and these types of things while the football game was being played and it just really was a striking illustration to me of just how far the technology has come. And I think the amount of iPhones, the amount of Blackberries and other devices like that that have been sold is just astronomical when we think about it in our day and age today. So this is what we're going to talk about. And our special guest on the program today is Dr. David Murray. Dr. David Murray is the president of a media group called Head He's also the professor of Old Testament and Practical Theology at Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary. I think there's some sort of lesson right there that I'll ask him right in the very beginning. Here we have somebody from Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary talking about technology. It seems to be a very interesting topic. oxymoron here or something but we'll address that here in just a couple seconds. Let me at the very top of the program just give you their website because I know as we go through this you're going to say boy I need to get a copy of this book and this actually a DVD that will take you through how to work with your children, how to guide your children to use technology in a God-honoring way. Their website is www.headhearthand, that makes up all one word, headhearthand.org, and you can go out there in order to find out more. With that, let's bring Dr. David Murray into the discussion. Hey David, how you doing? Well, Kevin, thanks for having me on today. Glad to talk about this with you. I think we have a mutual friend and a good friend, Stephen Lee from Sermon Audio. Stephen's right here in the Greenville area and was just together with him actually at the Lawson and Dr. R.C. Spurl conference in Alabama just recently and sat with him. Wonderful, wonderful guy. Isn't he? He's just got such a burden to get the truth out to people. It's just he's been such a godsend to the church, Stephen, hasn't he? Amen. In fact, the broadcast is going out right now live on Sermon Audio. So we have people that are tuned in right now listening via what Stephen has created there on Sermon Audio. I think it's up to 19 million hits a month the last time I looked. And so just a tremendous tool that speaks to this whole area of technology and using it for God's glory. Let's start with, first of all, you heard my little bit of tongue-in-cheek there that we've got somebody from the Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary talking to us about theology. Any sort of discrepancy there? I can understand your instinctive sense of, hmm, there's a contradiction here. But I think really this shows what our seminary is all about here. There are two extremes you can fall into in the seminary. One is that you just forget the past and you learn nothing from the past and you're just rootless and foundationless and therefore usually hopeless and useless. Or you can just be completely taken up with the past and you're just academic and scholarly Again, you're useless, but what the seminary is all about here is reaching back to the great truths of the Reformation as further expanded by the Puritans, taking all that they discovered about God's truth, His wonderful gospel and the teaching of Scripture, and re-presenting it today in modern language, and even at times using modern media. So this DVD is definitely drawing from the past, but trying to present the lessons of the past in a modern format. What caused you to get involved in this issue? I could see from the things that you've said about the DVD that apparently you have your own children. Was it that that drove you to say, you know, we really need to address this issue? Yeah, that, Kevin, and a few other things as well. Obviously, as a pastor, I was always asked or often asked for guidance on this. When you're at the front of a wave, it's very difficult to find your bearings. And we've just been overwhelmed by a tsunami of technology in the last, you know, 10 to 15 years. I'm afraid a generation has grown up really without much guidance and direction as to how to handle it. People are now seeing some of the many negatives and problems that have arisen. And so now we're sort of pausing and saying, right, we need to help the coming generation. We need to help current parents. We've learned some lessons here now. What does the Bible say about this? And I think as well, having your own children, and they're pushing for access, and you have to really think, how do we do this? You can't just keep saying no, and neither can you just say a blanket yes. So how do we find our way through this maze of technology? You use a word on the DVD that is a key term of discernment, taken a little bit from your good friend and colleague there and some other work that you're doing as well with Tim Challies and his work on the discipline of spiritual discernment, his book. I've had Tim on the program before about that book. This is really what would that be the the key here in a? Nutshell that that we need to show biblical discernment in this area. That's right in the DVD I tried to show how there are really three main ways of responding to technology one is I call it enthusiastic embrace which is basically you just open your arms your eyes your ears your heart and you take everything and and You don't have any rules, you don't have any guidelines, you don't have any restraint. And, well, it's hard for me to think of how a right-thinking Christian can take that approach, because there are so many dangers associated with technology. But then I think maybe, perhaps, a more common response is the idea of, well, there's so much evil in this, therefore let's separate from it. have nothing to do with it. It's completely evil, we completely withdraw, and we can be safe. And I think probably you, Kevin, and most parents and pastors at times have felt the power of that argument when you see the damage that some technology has done to some people, many people. But while we can understand the reaction, I don't think it's realistic. You can't get away from technology, and you can't keep your children away from it. When I was growing up, the big evil was the TV, you might say. Parents could control that more easily. It was in the corner of the room. They couldn't walk to school with it under their arm. But today, they walk out with this little, slim little thing in their pocket that opens up everything to them via their cell phone. You can't separate from it. The only realistic and biblical way is through, as you said, what's called disciplined discernment, learning how to train your children step by step to get to that point where they're able to and tell the difference between true and false, right and wrong, good and bad, harmful and helpful. I can almost put names in here next to each one of these ones that you have just listed. I know folks that seem to embrace everything that comes down the pike. They're almost into it for the cutting edge part of it. And in some cases, not really doing anything particularly biblical with it. It's more of a distraction sometimes in this particular case. Sometimes maybe even to the point of a sinful distraction, but it is certainly a distraction nonetheless. I know other people that, you know, the way that they talk, you would think that electric lights are somehow evil in and of themselves, and they long for the days of the pilgrims, and that they feel like that there was no sin back then, and that part of the influx of sin that we see today is due to the technology itself, and therefore technology equals evil and sinful. So I can almost put names right in here, and I noticed something as you were listing them as well, is we could be talking about another subject. We could equally talk about that in the way that we talk about politics. Well, just recently, some people would embrace everything in politics and other people would have nothing to do with it. But again, the Bible calls for a disciplined discernment in all of these areas. So it's a little broader than just technology. Would you agree? I think that's a very good point, Kevin. I think there's something in us that's attracted to simplistic solutions, easy solutions. In a way, those who choose enthusiastic embrace or strict separation are really choosing the easy options. It's unthinking. It's thoughtless. And it's clean, you might say. It's uncomplicated. But the biblical path demands us to engage our minds and to really wrestle with scripture, with the Holy Spirit, trying to connect the bridge, the principles of the Bible with modern age and see what does God have to say about this. And it's not something you learn in a day, and it's not something you succeed at in just a week. This is lifelong. It's just a daily battle in politics, in business, in sport, in technology. to learn how to walk that narrow way through these two extremes which do have their appeal. David, let me ask you, well first let me remind our listeners we're talking about God's Technology today and God's Technology is a new DVD that has just been put out by an organization called Head, Heart and Hand Media And the president of that group is our guest today, Dr. David Murray. He's also the professor of Old Testament and Practical Theology at Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary. I should give you their website as well so that people can go out there and check out about that. Is that President Joel Beeke there, is that correct? That's right Kevin, and I have to say that is my main calling in life. The DVD work, the film work is really a 5% part of my life here. It's a way of extending the seminary's ministry, really, through this media. Dr. Beek, he's been with me a couple times on the program before and really appreciate his work as well. Let me give the folks the seminary's website as well. It says www.puritanseminary.org. that's puritanseminaryalloneword.org and you can find out more out there about that issue. I want to encourage our listening audience, you're certainly welcome to participate in the conversation today. If you have a question about, we're just launching into all that's in this DVD, but if you have a question about technology and how to use it, I just was speaking with some folks yesterday, last night, about an issue that came up on Facebook. And in the issue that came up on Facebook was a believer that was saying inappropriate things on Facebook and how to address that situation. There are many ethical situations like this that come up using this technology. So to our listening audience, if you have questions like that, we'd be happy to try to answer those for you during the broadcast today. Here's how you can participate. There's a toll-free number, good countrywide, coast-to-coast, that's been set up in order to help you to facilitate these questions. And that number is 1-888-660-WLFJ. That's 1-888-660-WLFJ. I also have email up and running, kevin at knowingthetruth.org. That's simply K-E-V-I-N at knowingthetruth.org, and I'd be happy to take your question or your comment either way. Dr. David Murray, would you please give us an outline of, you mentioned a few of these three things in the beginning here, these three items or three ways of responding to the technology. Give us the rest of the outline of what people would find then on this DVD. Okay. One of the reasons I called it God's technology is I really wanted to emphasize that technology is God's. And we shouldn't be overly negative about it. It's not the devil's. The devil has abused it, but it is God's technology, and it's the Christian's task to, as it were, reclaim it for God, to take it as a good gift from him, and to use it for his glory and the good of his creatures and his church on earth. And that's why I start really with these principles. The first one is technology is created by God. Now obviously we're not saying it's a creation like Genesis 1, everything out of nothing. The fact that God created all these physical elements that manufacturers use to produce technology, the powers and the forces, and even the human minds that invent the internet, fiber optics, etc. Don't you think, though, Kevin, we see all that Apple has another presentation, Microsoft, and look what Bill Gates has done, look what Steve Jobs has done, It's not men who have invented this or that. God is the ultimate inventor. And he just allows men to discover what he has already invented. So I think just to lay that as a foundation that is created by God, that it's not essentially sinful. I think you said that earlier. The people that use the telephone are really using exactly the same technology as the internet. It's the same signals, same lines. There's nothing inherently sinful about these telephone lines and these computers. I remember seeing an interview with James Cameron who made that film Avatar and he said during the interview that because of technology today we can basically create whatever we want you know there's no limit whatsoever and then I looked at what they had actually done and although it's interesting and certainly technically you know superb and with the types of things that they put together using technology I noticed and I said that basically he has just taken what God has already done and moved a few things around you know the people there are blue they have pointy ears rather than ears like ours and tails and this type of thing, but really there's nothing new there at all. It's all been creative before, going to your point. Yeah, I know, but we do tend to worship and serve the creature rather than the creator, don't we? That's part of our sinful condition. We find it so hard to credit God with anything. And I think also to think, as we talked earlier about Stephen Lee's use of technology, just how many good uses technology has, and not just in the Christian church, but even things just like MRI scans, CT scans, All that is available to us makes our lives more convenient in terms of banking, shopping, and education. All I see behind all of this is a good, gracious, and loving God who has blessed His creatures and His world with so many good gifts. our comfort and enjoyment amen amen i wholeheartedly agree that this is uh we've got to look at this this way that every area of our life is a is a gift from god that he is sovereign over all of these things I want to continue with that thought and go to the other propositions that you have there in the book. But I think what we'll do is we'll first go to our first commercial break here at the bottom of the hour and make sure that people know that they can participate again as well. And then we'll come back from the break and go right back into our discussion with our special guest today, Dr. David Murray. We're talking about God's technology again and how to use it for the glory of God. And we'll continue that conversation in just a minute. The number, 1-888-660-WLFJ. That's 1-888-660-9535. Also, email is up and running. The email is kevin at knowingthetruth.org. Love to hear your question or comment on this issue. You're listening to Knowing the Truth with Pastor Kevin Bowling. For more information about today's program, the radio ministry, and the resources we offer, go to www.knowingthetruth.org. Have we settled for a compromised form of Christianity in our churches? On the next Janet Mefford Show, I'll talk it over with pastor-teacher Dr. John Barber. He's author of a new book, My Almost for His Highest. And Oklahoma voters decide no consideration of Sharia law in our courts. State Representative Rex Duncan, the man behind the measure, will join us to talk about it. That's all next time, so join us for the Janet Mefford Show. Weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 on Christian Talk 660 and 92.9 FM. It's great pizza for a great price. So pack up the family and head over to Stevie B's near Walmart on Woodruff Road in Greenville. At Stevie B's, you'll find friendly faces and at least a dozen pizzas out at all times. Or you can order a pizza, and they'll make it fresh just for you at no extra cost. So visit Stevie B's today. Hi, this is Pastor Kevin Bowling, and I want to take the time to thank John, Ruth, Carlos, and the good folks over there at Stevie B's Pizza for their support of the Knowing the Truth radio broadcast. Could extensive use of electronic gadgets be harming your child's brain? It could be anhedonia. Hi, I'm Trace Embry from Shepherds Hill Farm with something to think about. Because kids who suffer from anhedonia find it difficult to engage in activities that fail to give them the adrenaline rush they're so accustomed to, school studies and homework have become regarded as too mentally taxing for them. Bible study is virtually impossible. Anedonia is a real chemical problem in the brain that seems to be resulting in an entire generation devoid of biblical knowledge or want. This leads us to a negative residual effect that almost no parent or youth worker has considered. Parents, we must put pleasure and entertainment limits on our kids for the sake of preserving not only their hearts and minds, but the future of the American church. Learn more about this topic at shfteens.org. Shepherd's Hill Farm is here to serve hurting families with teens in crisis. If you have a teenager with behavioral issues, we can help. Contact us at shfteens.org. Welcome back to Knowing the Truth with Pastor Kevin Bowling. Information regarding the resources referenced on today's program can be found at www.knowingthetruth.org. Now, here to continue with today's program is Pastor Kevin Bowling. Hey, welcome back into the second half of the Knowing the Truth radio broadcast. Time is going quickly today as we talk about this important subject of God's technology. How do we use this amazing technology that we have today in order to use it for the glory of God. How can we make sure, as we're working with our children, with young people specifically, I guess, but looking to help them, to give them guidance, to think biblically, to use discernment, good solid biblical discernment, as they think about how they are using these tremendous gifts that God has given to us. You know, we have a propensity people to abuse the gifts that God has given to us. We see this throughout the Old Testament Scripture with the people of God. We see it in our own life that God gives us these wonderful gracious gifts and the propensity because of the remaining sin in our life because of our own stubbornness and inability to see clearly the things that we should be doing and seeing and the things of God We tend to abuse or pervert these things and use them in ways that they were never intended to be used by God. And so we have to have some guidelines. And here to help is this new DVD. It's put out by Head, Heart and Hand Media. It's called God's Technology. You can go out to their website at www.headhearthand.org and out there you can find out more about it. I think it's about $15. Well worth it for you to sit down as a family and think about these issues and go through this. It would be great, I think, for churches to watch this together for schools, distributors, you know, to get involved in getting this out. I think it would be very good for them to look at what David has to say, Dr. David Murray, in this DVD. You know, speaking about working with our children, let me mention something that's coming up right here locally. Strides Tutoring, and if you're familiar with them, I've mentioned them before, they do individualized tutoring educational programs for children. In the area they have an event coming up this weekend November 6th from 9 o'clock in the morning till 6 o'clock P.m.. In the in the evening, and they're doing a holiday craft sale taking place in Malden Let me give you their website and a phone number as well that you can find out more about this event their website is simply www.strides tutor that's all one word strides tutor dot o-r-g and if you go under their donation section it's coupled along with their upcoming fundraising events and then you'll see the information there for their fall craft sale that's taking place this weekend also their telephone number right here in Greenville so it's area code eight six four but it's two four six 98 98 that's 2 4 6 98 98 you can get more information about this upcoming event let's go back to our discussion now with dr. David Murray dr. Murray just before the break you had talked to us first of all about this first point that technology is created by God we like to think of individuals associated with the technology the Steven Jobs the Microsoft leaders, you know, these types of things, Bill Gates and being associated with it. But really, technology comes from God and we need to keep that in mind. What secondly would you say about this technology? Yeah, I think you have to move very swiftly on really to highlight how technology has been so perverted and abused by sinners, just like all of God's good gifts. We are sadly incredibly gifted at taking them and perverting them and actually turning them against God. And you mentioned some things there, Kevin, but I don't need to recite the statistics about pornography and bullying. using the internet to cheat in exams, stealing songs, identity theft, addiction to computer video games. The stats are terrifying. They're really terrifying. And I think probably only in the last few years, really, are we beginning to comprehend the damage that technology can do. And in that sense, I often compare technology to poppies. You think of these fields of red flowers, they're so beautiful, they're created by God, they're not essentially sinful. Poppies have good uses, they can, the opium's use is a painkiller, but just like technology, it's harmed and abused by sinners, because sinners then get heroin from it and get addicted to it. So, although both of these, and everything, poppies and technology, should lead us to worship our creator for his genius, When we see the way it's abused, it should also lead us to hate the devil who so twisted these good gifts into destroying weapons in his hands. There's, you know, the idea of it being perverted that way that you just mentioned, and like you say, the statistics are legion as to just the damage that has been done in people's life through the perversion of these things. I'd like people also to think about maybe a little bit some lesser evils, maybe, you know, the little A.I.s in their life that I think also could creep in, even into the life of a believer. The idea that we have the ability to respond instantaneously now when people say something. I remember reading John Newton's come back to or his advice to a young man who was thinking about, he had received some criticism from a friend and he was going to write this letter to him, you know, basically giving him the, you know, what for and tell him, yeah, this is what I think about your criticism, blah, blah, blah. And the wise counsel that was given to him by Newton to say, just wait on this a little bit and think about carefully about the kingdom of God and about what you're writing. I've really taken that to heart because with this technology that we have, I carry around an iPhone in my pocket here, and so I can respond right away. And I've so often I have typed out an email and then I've made a habit of putting it into my draft file before I send it. And I have just been surprised over the years at how few of those emails I have actually sent the following day. As I read back and I just said it was too harsh. My response was un-Christian. It was, I really need to just take time. Do you think there's a lot of little areas like this, the big perverted areas we can see clearly, but there's a lot of these little crannies here that we need to be careful of as well. Do you agree? I totally agree. I think the big sins are easy to spot. The little ones are not so easy. I'm thankful myself for the Google undo send button. Even in the 10-15 seconds it allows me, I've often reversed some sends. I'm thankful for it too. I worked at one company where a girl had accidentally hit reply all to an email and so it went out to everybody in the company and she had just railed against another girl and so she was very quick. She was sitting in a cubicle by me and so I could hear the commotion start as the email popped up. and her red face and the other girl coming over and confronting her and I just thought, wow, what a graphic illustration. I tell our folks that we should consider our words to be like toothpaste. It's easy to get out of the tube but very difficult to put back in there. At times like that you think strict separation sounds very attractive at the moment. Exactly, you're exactly right. Well, you mentioned it could be perverted, and we talked about that. What about the third item, then? Well, really, we move on, then, to the seven-step training program that I have in the DVD. It's so easy to highlight the problem and say, here are the difficulties, and then to be even very general in your, you know, like, we need to do discipline discernment, but what does that mean? On the ground, what does that mean? I try to break it down into seven steps with seven words. Just to help parents train their children from very close supervision, involvement with the children, to eventually the children being independent users of technology. That may take a long time. It may be quicker in some cases. But I think it's a pattern that is useful in families and for pastors, too, in dealing with their congregation. We put together a little study guide that goes with the DVD. You can download that free on the website to help people think it through and apply it in their own situations as well. It just stimulates some thought about this. Well, great. Let's go through those seven steps, if we could, please. OK, well, I mean, there's nothing, there's no rocket science in this, but I think it does help just even just to get common sense in an organized way. And the first step, I say, is simply education. Educate yourself. If you're a parent or pastor, you can't hide your head in the sand. Get on the internet. Start learning it. Begin with websites that cover technology at a popular level. And just begin to get aware yourself of the dangers, because you're sending your children into a jungle. And you've got to know that jungle a bit so that you can warn them about hidden dangers so that they can go into that jungle and come back again being unscarred. So education of yourself, education of your children. And then fence is my second word. And there are things like antivirus software. and firewalls. It's amazing how many people just don't have that and allow so much of their own material to be damaged or sucked out of their machines, which is highly irresponsible, really. And then set some time fences and time boundaries. There are different pieces of software you can use to limit the time. Set some site limits. Direct your children to some guaranteed safe sites. If they prove trustworthy and reliable, then add another one and just keep checking their browsing activity and set bounds on what they can upload and download. Just for clarity, just be really clear with your children. But children like boundaries. They do seem to flourish when we do give them very definite fences to live in and play in. Then I move on thirdly to mentoring. You sit with them as they use the internet, basically. Don't just give them rules and walk away. You've got to sit with them, surf with them, guide them as they click and say, well, why did you do that and not this? Praise good use. Steer them away from what's harmful. And then I go to supervise. You can't mentor them forever. You've got to take a step back. Don't hand everything over at that point, but just Make sure you're seeing what they're doing. Keep screens in a public place. Use digital supervision. I love Covenant Eyes as a piece of software. I've used a number of these different filters and blockers. I find that by far the simplest and the most effective. Let me just make sure our listeners know, I think I understand Covenant Eyes correctly, that it's a piece of software that will then, you can send reports to other users on the network, right? So a parent could get a report sent to their email if certain types of sites were accessed and those types of things. Is that correct? That's right, Kevin. It helps you block some sites. It limits time on the internet. But the most valuable thing for me is it does send these very readable reports to your accountability partner. And I use it myself. I have my wife as my accountability partner, and I'm hers. And I think it's really important for us all just to have that extra pair of eyes upon us. That danger is just one click away. and we've got to recognize our vulnerability. And then after you've supervised a bit, then you can walk away a bit, but also go back to review, sit down with the Covenant Eyes report, talk it over with them. Were there any alarm bells, any red flags? Let them know you're still involved, still concerned, and then move safely to trust. You're stepping back more and more here, giving them more and more responsibility and trust. Maybe as a parent you might say, well how about, as you've got older now, how about a friend being your accountability partner, or your pastor, or your future wife or husband. Hopefully you've trained them by this point to be their own filter, their own blocker. And then lastly, seventhly, is model. Maybe this is the most powerful of all, that parents model godly use of technology. That we show them good time management. Show them that we are accountable. Show them that we're not afraid to have our screen viewable by others in the home. And by that, it's really showing rather than tell. So these are the seven steps I walk through. And then I apply it at the end of the video to Facebook in particular. how to use that seven-step training program with Facebook and other social networking sites. Well, that's excellent. You know, when I look at this list and I see the things that you went through, very common sense approach to this issue, it makes me think that it fits in very good with our responsibilities as parents as a whole. Again, not only would these be great steps for talking about technology, but in a number of areas of life. I could think of some of these things fitting into teaching them how to drive a car, for instance. You know, you wouldn't just hand them the keys and say, okay, you're 16, go. You know, we put them through driver training programs and we talked to them about what to do with a vehicle and what not to do with a vehicle. what are some of the dangers of the road, defensive driving, these types of things. And so that's what I like about your approach. It really speaks of what we find in Deuteronomy chapter 6 about as we're going through life with our children, you're not going to be there for all of their life. We have to train them how to think biblically about these things. Do you agree? Definitely, Kevin. And I think this is the sort of frightening thing about technology, that the principles that we apply in areas we're familiar with, in other areas of parenting, somehow we don't apply in technology, partly, I think, because it's new. And so really, yeah, part of what I'm doing here is just trying to help people make that link. Look, you do this with driving. You do this with ordinary friends. Why not do it with Facebook friends, for example? You wouldn't send someone into a jungle, unarmed and unprepared. So why send them onto the internet, unprepared? So yeah, it isn't rocket science. But as you know, sometimes the most commonsensical things are often neglected. I would imagine that you do this somewhat in the DVD, but I can see pretty easily here, too, how certain Bible principles can be applied to each one of these seven categories that you speak about, you know, with the idea of a fence that you talk about there. I'm thinking about Isaiah, I have made a covenant with my eyes that I will not behold perverse things this idea in Isaiah the overriding category being that all things are naked and open unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do that thy God seeth thee you know God you may it may not show up on the covenant eyes report but it shows up upon the report of the king of kings you know he he knows him and ultimately right we're telling our children We're taking them out from under our umbrella of authority and making them see as they get older that their relationship is now between them and Almighty God and not between, they don't have this extra level of parental authority there. They now have to respond and are accountable directly to Almighty God. Is that a fair assessment? Yes, certainly, Kevin. I actually, I don't quote a lot of Bible verses in these sections on the DVD, but in the study guide, that's one of the challenges we've left people. You know, find Bible verses that will explain this or support this or prove this. And also at the very end, I think this is so important. Ultimately, our children need new hearts. You know, by nature, we are, as we're told in John 3, we're attracted to darkness. And sadly, many of our children are going to be attracted to the dark side of the Internet, however many rules we put in place, however much supervision we give. And so ultimately, we've really got to pray that the Lord would would replace that love of darkness with love for the light, would give them new hearts so that they'll pray more than Twitter, that they'll seek the face of Christ in the book of books. and fill their space with the one who fills all space. That's our ultimate prayer. Amen. I just want to clarify what I said here, just so that nobody in the listening audience takes it wrong. When I say applying a Bible verse there, I'm not just talking about going out and yanking one. Out of contact. I know Dave is not talking about that as well I'm talking about that these principles though the Bible does address like the modeling there at the end about older believers working with the younger believers and I mentioned Deuteronomy chapter 6 already about talking to our children as we walk in the way as Throughout the day, you know modeling before them what what we think about different areas of life. So and I just wanted to clarify that in my own statement there with some of the listening audience. David, give us some of the nuts and bolts then about this program and how people can take advantage of it. First of all, is it designed for the individual primarily, for a family to sit down to buy this and then sit down and watch it? Is it designed more in a study group or a church setting? Who's it designed for? Yep, I think the DVD on its own is very suitable for parents. We're actually, we're hoping in the coming year to make one that's more targeted at teenagers themselves. Take a slightly different approach, a different format, but this is really for parents. But we think the study guide will also make it useful for small groups, fellowships, pastoral counseling. of families and people. And we've tried to make it shortish. It's about 40, 45 minutes. It's broken up into four or five sections so that you can stop, do the questions and go on a bit more. And also it's available for downloading on our website so that you don't need to wait for it to come from a supplier or a shop. You can download a high definition version of the film i think it's maybe six or seven dollars or something like that and i think the high def version is especially good for public showings Let me mention to our listening audience, I had given your website the Head Heart Hand website earlier, .org, and certainly people can go there to watch the trailer and see some information about this. But let me also mention that Reformation Heritage Books has this book at a special price right now. Is that correct, David? Yep, I think you can get this from Apologetics Group but also from Reformation Heritage Books, I think. somewhere in the region of $10, $11, $12, something like that? I think you're right. And so that's certainly, boy, it would make a wonderful gift. Any grandparents that are listening that want to get one for Christmas for their children as they are raising their grandchildren, this would be great. I could just think of a number of different uses for it, but it would be well worth the $10 or $15 if you go to the other site. in order to spend, in order to give them this type of guidelines. I'm not sure if you mentioned this already, David, but on your site, one of the advantages there is I think you can download, if you have a high-speed connection, I would assume, that you can download. That's how I got it, but downloaded it from the Internet. Mine probably took, I don't have a super fast connection, It probably took 20 minutes or so in a zipped format, and I was able to download it and then watch it directly from there. So I guess it just depends, you know, what your neighbors are doing on the Internet at that time, and how much bandwidth your provider is going to give you. So is that correct? They can download it from there? That's right. I think that's about right. 20 to 30 minutes it should take. I think the file is around about maybe 700 megabytes, if I remember. So yes, it'll depend on your speed, but we've also, we've got special prices for churches and schools who have been ordering in batches from us, $10 each. We had a church recently come and ask for 80. They just felt they wanted all their parents in the congregation to get one and teach their children these things. So we're really pleased about that. We're very encouraged. Well that's excellent, excellent use of it for sure. You mentioned a little bit about Facebook. Just before we end the interview today, just give a couple of points. Facebook obviously is so predominant in our culture today. Just before I went on the program today, I put a post out there on Facebook that you were going to be on. We use it to keep in touch with some of the folks at our church. You know, uses like that. Tell us just a couple of tips that people should keep in mind that you would go over in the DVD dealing with that particular piece of technology. Yeah. Well, you know, we spent about 10 minutes in the film applying these seven points, showing them specifically how they work on Facebook. It is a bit different to the Internet, although it uses the Internet. Some basic rules for younger people is set boundaries on the friends that are allowed. You shouldn't really allow them to friend anyone on Facebook that you wouldn't normally allow them to have as a normal friend. I think as well, don't say anything to anyone in the digital world that you wouldn't say to their face in the real world. That's what I call the Silicon Rule. The golden rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. The silicon rule, don't say anything to anyone in the digital world, you wouldn't say to their face in the real world. Another point I found, and secular sites are concerned about this, secular groups are concerned about this as well, and one of the sayings I picked up from one of these non-Christian sites is reflect before you reveal. It's very easy for people to get into that mode of just letting it all hang out, just putting everything up there and not realizing that once it's up, it's up for good or it can be copied. And I'm afraid for young people that many of them are ruining their job prospects because One of the first things employers do today is they Facebook their job applicants. You're right, exactly. And I'm afraid you won't even get to an interview. So I'm concerned about young people, good young people, but just do foolishness and youthfulness, just really damaging themselves in the long run, even their marriage prospects. If I was a young girl today, a young woman, and there's a guy showing interest in me, I'd be on Facebook first before going out for a date. Wanting to know what kind of guy he was like, what kind of friends he had. Yeah, or the parents going out and checking out who's taking their daughter out for a date or something. It is surprising the amount of personal information that people will put out there about themselves. It's startling, really, and I think there's something here in and of itself, you know, just that people feel the need to talk about their life in such detail and privacy issues that they're just putting out on the Internet. It's really startling. Well, it feeds our own self-love and self-importance, doesn't it? It's such a great way for self-promotion and it does bring out the worst in us at times. But having said that, Kevin, I believe there are people in heaven who were saved through Facebook evangelism. And so let's not just be down on it, but use it. Let's take it and really model good conduct and take opportunities for the gospel as well. We did a study, an expository study through the book of James. And I remember when we were doing that, At one point when we were talking about the tongue, of course, which is a major theme in that book, I said, here's what I want you to do. I want you to go to your Facebook profile and click on your profile there, the part that shows you all of the posts that you have put in. And then look at what you have put there over the last couple of weeks or something. Is there anything about Christ at all in there? We've got now a way of tracking what we are saying to other people. Are you happy with what you have put out there? Do you feel that it's honoring to God? And then I said to him, you know, nowadays when somebody is arrested, a lot of times they'll confiscate their computer and they'll see where they've been and what sites they've been to. And I said, if you were arrested for being a Christian and they looked at your Facebook posts, would there be enough information there to convict you of being a Christian? Or would they have to say, well, I'm not quite sure what this person believes based upon what they put out here on their Facebook? So there's little litmus tests, I think, like that that we can give to ourselves that may help. David, thank you very much, first and foremost, for writing this book. You're very busy there at the seminary, but thank you for writing this book and for laying this out for us. We really appreciate it. Thanks, Kevin, and it's not a book, it's a DVD. I'm sorry, I keep saying book. I interview so many authors, this DVD. Join the new era, Kevin, come on. I'm lagging behind. Thank you very much, David. We appreciate your time today and for putting it together. Thanks for having me. Let me tell the listening audience that if you want this book, I just looked it up. It is out on heritagebooks.org. That's heritagebooks, plural, .org. It's out there for just $10. Take advantage of it. I think it's a special limited-time offer. Ten bucks. Go out there and get a copy of this. You'll be glad you did for your friends and your family as you look through what it says here in this book about using God's technology for his glory. Remember, the Lord Jesus Christ said, You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. You've been listening to Knowing the Truth with Pastor Kevin Bowling. Knowing the Truth is the outreach ministry of the Mountain Bridge Bible Fellowship located on Highway 25 in Travelers Rest. For more information about the church and radio ministry, Fox News Radio, I'm Lisa Brady.