Hello and welcome to Baptist Perspective with Jimmy Barber. Whether you're listening while driving home from work, sitting with a hot cup of coffee or making dinner, we hope this podcast will be thought provoking and edifying. Now, here with today's episode is Jimmy Barber. The previous podcast ended with the difference in hermeneutics regarding the word field in the parable of the wheat and tares. The Donatists and the Anabaptists maintained that it was the world, as Christ said, while the Protestants identified it as the church. In reference to the understanding of the ecclesia of God, translated church in the King James Version, Augustine introduced the idea of an invisible ecclesia, while the Donatist affirmed that it was always visible. With this in mind, and though we have done this somewhat before, I believe it would be profitable to discuss the meaning of ecclesia at this time. While there may be times when the ecclesia is associated with the kingdom, that is, the Greek word basileia, we will endeavor to limit our study to the ekklesia alone. In doing this, I believe it will be more profitable to use the Greek ekklesia instead of the English word church to avoid the confusion often found as it is used in articles, sermons, and other published materials. For example, Many unscriptural phrases are set forth as Invisible Church, Universal Church, Militant Church, Triumphant Church, Old Testament Church, Church of Israel, Reformed Church, and other such-like statements. Additionally, we find the English word church used to identify or describe the elect all believers, all believers in heaven, all believers alive, all believers in a given location and or denomination, a denomination, a philosophy of religion, believers from Pentecost to the second coming of Christ, a congregation, and many other like classifications. Therefore, when discussing what ekklesia means as found in the scriptures, I believe a cloud of confusion may be cleared from our thinking by forcing us to think of the particular Greek word and its use in the Bible. Furthermore, it is notable that William Tyndale's Bible, 1525, the Cloverdale Bible, 1535, Matthew's Bible, 1537, and the Great Bible, 1640, translated ecclesia as congregation, with one exception, as company, in Romans 16, 5, and the Tyndale and Matthews Bibles. Oddly, in the other four versions in this chapter, ecclesia is translated as congregation. The English word church first showed up in the 1557 Geneva translation. Of the 115 times Ecclesia is used in the New Testament, in the 1557 Geneva edition it was translated Church 99 times, Congregation 13 times, and Assembly 3 times. According to Alexander McClure in his book Translators Revived, on pages 48 through 53, William Whittingham, brother-in-law to John Calvin, with the help of Anthony Gilby and Thomas Sampson, produced the 1557 Geneva Bible. Later, the 1560-1599 versions of the Geneva Bible translated Ecclesia Church 111 times, Assembly 3 times, and Congregation 1 time. The Bishop's Bible, 1568, the basis for the King James Translation as ordained by King James, translated Ecclesia as Church 110 times, Assembly 3 times, and Congregation 2 times. Therefore, we find that the translating of the Greek word ekklesia to the English word church is due to a heavy Protestant influence. It is interesting that R.C. Sproul affirmed that the English word church came from the Greek word kurios, which is translated Lord. He said, quote, One final thing that I say I would say later, and it's now later, the common word that we hear all the time in our language, that the rise from this is the word church. In Scotland, it's kirk. In Holland, it's kirk. In German, it's kirche. If you notice, all those have the same hard consonant sound, C, H, or K, with the R in there, and just a different vowel. They all come from the Greek word kyriakē, which is a form of the name Kyrios, and means those who belong to the Kyrios. So that even the word church derives from this name Curios, as we are the people of the one who reigns as Lord of Lords." This is from his podcast, Renewing Your Mind, regarding Jesus as Lord, as published on May the 19th, 2025. With this in mind, we will now direct our attention to the meaning of Ekklesia, as found in the New Testament. When Jesus said, as recorded in Matthew 16, 18, And I say unto thee that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my ekklesia, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against thee. What did He mean? Jesus used ekklesia twenty-two times, three times in Matthew and nineteen times in Revelation. In Matthew 18, verses 15 through 17, Jesus said, Moreover, if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his faults between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then thou shalt take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. and if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto thee Ecclesia. But if he neglect to hear the Ecclesia, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. I believe that it is clear that our Lord had in mind with Ecclesia an assembly or congregation of people. Next, in Revelation 1.11 and 20, Our Lord spoke of the seven ekklesias in Asia. Following in chapters 2 and 3, He identified each of the ekklesias, congregations, in their respective location, as well as mentioning all of the ekklesias, or congregations. Lastly, in Revelation 22, 16, he said, I, Jesus, have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the ecclesias, assemblies or congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and the morning star. I believe it is safe to affirm that it is without question what our Lord meant in twenty-one times out of the twenty-two times He used it. Therefore, we must not ascribe a meaning to the one time, that is, Matthew 16, 18, something different. The ekklesia that our Lord said He was to establish or build was a visible congregation or assembly. obviously you cannot have an invisible or universal assembly. When we study how Ekklesia is used the other 90 times, remember that three times it is translated assembly in Acts 19 verses 32, 39, and 40, it is overwhelmingly found to refer to an assembly or congregation of people. When Jesus first mentioned ekklesia, he did not say that he meant something different from the common meaning and understanding of that word in his day. Joseph Henry Thayer, in his Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament, gives the meaning of ekklesia as follows. Properly, it means a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place and assembly. So used, one, among the Greeks from Thucydides for 23 B.C. down, an assembly of the people convened at the public place of council for the purpose of deliberating. Acts 19.39. Two, in the Septuagint, often equivalent to Quaha, the assembly of the Israelites. Judges 21 and 1 Chronicles 29 and 1, etc., especially when gathered for sacred purposes, Deuteronomy 31.30, Joshua 8.35, etc., and the New Testament thus in Acts 7.38 and Hebrews 2.12. 3. Any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance or tumultuously, Acts 19.32, and 41, and then Thayer goes on to give what is commonly in the Christian sense. George Liddell and Robert Scott, in a Greek-English lexicon based on the German work of Francis Paslow, 1855, on page 418, gave the following definition for ecclesia as an assembly of the citizens summoned by the crier, the legislative assembly. At Athens, the ordinary assembly were called Kyriaki Ekklesia, that is, the Lord's Assembly. For over 400 years prior to Christ, ekklesia was used to designate an assembly or congregation of people usually gathered for the purpose of conducting business. When Christ used this word, the disciples had no reason to think Jesus meant something other than the common use or understanding of what ekklesia meant. Time does not allow us to study each 115 times this word is used in the New Testament. I have a 60-page outline devoted to the subject and will gladly share it with anyone who desires to have it. An original version may be found at the website mountzionpbc.org. However, when we study the 90 times this Greek word is used in translated church, we find that there are very few times where it might mean something other than congregation or assembly. Remember that three times it is translated assembly when not used in an ecclesiastical setting. All too often Protestants and Baptists alike do not begin with the historical usage of the word or seek to understand what the Lord meant when studying this Greek word. Though it is interesting that Bullinger said that the meaning of the Greek word was a congregation. We will have more to say about this in a later study, the Lord willing. Often they will begin with a passage that on the surface may refer to a preconceived belief of something invisible and or universal. At other times some will separate the word into the compound Greek preposition ek and the noun kaleo and derive a meaning different from the historical use for over 400 years and give a meaning entirely different from how the Lord used the word. That the death of Christ was inclusive of the congregation can be clearly seen in Acts 20, verses 17 and 28. There we see that Paul called the elders from the Ecclesia at Ephesus to meet him at Miletus. He exhorted them to take heed to themselves, but also to take heed to the flock, which the Holy Ghost had made them overseers. He further identified the flock as the Ekklesia of God that was purchased with his own blood. To infer or imply that Paul was exhorting those elders from Ephesus to oversee something universal, invisible, or mystical is poor hermeneutics, to say the least. Another fallacy, I believe, is found when it is seen that the ecclesia is likened to a body for which Christ died, and to assume that this is referring to the whole election of grace. While it is true that Christ died for the whole election of grace, we saw from Acts chapter 20 that He died for the Ekklesia at Ephesus. Furthermore, 1 Corinthians 12, 27 says, quote, Now ye are the body of Christ and members in particular, end of quote. Notice it describes the Ekklesia at Corinth as the body of Christ. Obviously, the whole election of grace was not limited to the Ekklesia Ekarnia. However, when one investigates the verse in the Greek, it is seen that there is no definite article before the word body. Therefore, it is literally, ye are a body of Christ. Yes, each New Testament ekklesia is a complete body of Christ, with Christ as the head over it, as the husband is over the wife, as set forth in Ephesians 5, verses 23 through 32. Sad to say, but too often the theology and philosophy of man engenders confusion and draws us away from the simplicity of the truth of the Scriptures. Paul was jealous over the Ekklesia at Corinth when he wrote, For I am jealous over you with a godly jealousy. For I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your mind should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 2 Corinthians 11 verses 2 through 3. To infer that Paul meant something invisible, universal, or mystical is invalid hermeneutics. He was addressing the Ekklesia congregation at Corinth. As previously stated, much more could be said regarding the Ekklesia as found in the New Testament, and many other passages could be studied. However, I believe this simple overall presentation of the subject will go a long way in dissipating the cloud of confusion that is presented regarding the subject of the Church as is often set forth today. Furthermore, we saw from history this invisible, mystical idea as set forth by Augustine and adopted by the Protestants and, sad to say, too often by many Baptists, and the meaning of the word church is vague and unclear in the minds of most today. However, our time is up for today. Farewell. Thank you for listening to today's edition of Baptist Perspective. We archive our episodes so you can go back anytime and listen again. Do you have a question about something you've heard? Or just want to let us know you're listening? Visit us at BaptistPerspective.WordPress.com That's BaptistPerspective.WordPress.com Thanks again for listening.