Footsteps on the side. The Church of Thyatira. We looked at Pergamum last week and we found out that the entrance of paganism from Babylon entered the church at that point in time. The practices, the methodologies entered that. One thing I failed to mention last week, I think I mentioned it, but I didn't flush it out a little bit. Pergamum got its name from the paper they produced. I think I mentioned that, and the paper's name was Pergamenu. That's the paper they produced, obviously, with the library they had there, an extensive library at Pergamum. But here's the key idea. The term Pergamum means thoroughly married. Thoroughly married. When we talk about the two shall become one, We talk about that in marriage. It's the gluing of paper together. And once it's glued, you can't rip the marriage covenant apart without it ripping. And so the same idea is communicated that way with even the city's name, Thoroughly Married, Thoroughly Pressed Together, and Unseparable. OK, that's interesting that the name of the church means Thoroughly Married. Because at that point in time Constantine married the church with the Roman Empire and Because of that marriage that unholy alliance that allowed paganism to infiltrate the church like there was no tomorrow now What do you mean by that? this is very important because you'll understand when we get the Protestantism same thing happened there and When the church is married to the state, basically the edict that came out of Constantine was this. If you're a member of the Roman Empire, you're automatically a member of the church. To be a citizen was to be a member of the church. In order to be a citizen, you had to be baptized. So baptism basically was your membership interest. There was no child that was not unbaptized, because that's the way you retained your citizenship through baptism. And that's why you'll hear stories of Constantine marching his armies through rivers and baptizing them and things like that. Constantine apparently had a vision. Before he was going to go into battle one time, I think it was a blue banner with a yellow cross or something like that. It was a picture of the cross flying on a banner. And it said, go ahead and conquer or something to that effect. So in that vision, that's what caused Constantine to make Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire. Smart on his part, because like the Antichrist, it's like a precursor to that, the Antichrist understands that you have to have a religion to make the glue stick and make people come together. Religion is what brings people together. And it has to be a very broad concept. So Constantine understood that and that's what he united the Holy Roman Empire with Christianity. And the way he made it work was not keeping the strict theological guidelines of Christianity, it was simply to loosen those guidelines. And because those guidelines were loosened, paganism entered the church. So you have some guy over here and his family who are still pagans worshipping whoever, Jupiter, Saturn, or whatever. And he was led into the church. Well, he had his own practices as well. And he had his female deity. And they said, well, why don't you just transfer that worship to our female deity, so to speak? Or we don't call her a deity, because she's hyper-venerated. Her name is Mary. And so all that got transferred over, but paganism ran amok. So this idea of being thoroughly married carries through all the way to Protestantism, and when we get to that, maybe today, you'll see it is still a problem and causes deadness in the churches. Okay, so we move now to Thyatira. We go from Pergamum now to Thyatira. That is the Church of the Dark Ages. 600 AD to 1517. 1517 is where Martin Luther nailed his 95 thesis to the wall. So give or take, this is the general idea. The other term for this era is called the pornocracy. Like porn? P-O-R-N, pornography, is the other term for this era. And I'll tell you why in just a second. Let's read the text in Revelation chapter 2, and we'll pick out the tidbits there. I've given it some clues about what was happening here. And to the angel of the church of Thyatira write, these things say the son of God who has eyes like a flame of fire and his feet are like unto burnished brass. Again, referencing Christ to judgment. He's going to judge this church through the tribulation. And I'll show you that in just a bit. I know your works, and your love and faith, and ministry and patience, and that your last works are more than the first." So, one of the things about the pornography or this Church of the Dark Ages, outwardly, they had the appearance of good works. They did a lot of good things. And Christianity did spread. There's no doubt about that. There were some perverted forms of it. No doubt about that. But outwardly, it did a lot of good. There's no doubt there's problems, and we'll see that in just a bit. But that being the case, let's get into the problems it had. But I have this against you, that you suffer the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. And she teaches and seduces my servants to commit fornication and to eat things sacrificed to idols." Okay, let's talk a little bit about that so we can understand what got introduced into the church. It's possible that in the historical church of Thyatira, that there was a woman named Jezebel. Maybe, maybe not. But the bigger application, as you can see, is Jesus is alluding to something they should know from the Old Testament. And it's the woman of Jezebel. So, you have to go back into the Old Testament to understand what did Jezebel do to Israel. As you know, Israel suffered a lot with false worship of God. It happened right out of Egypt. What did they do? What did Aaron allow happen? The golden calf, right? Moses is gone. Aaron lets him go hog wild. And Moses gets down there and they're worshiping a golden calf. But remember though, was the golden calf another God? It was not. It was the worship of Yahweh adulterated with a bad methodology, but it still was the worship of Yahweh with an idol. And they pictured Yahweh as a calf. This happened all through with Solomon's son. What is it? Rehoboam went to the north. Was it Rehoboam or Jeroboam? I can't remember. The one son that went up to the north, he also set up an altar with golden calves. It still was not the worship of a foreign deity. It was still the worship of Yahweh, albeit wrong. It was still the worship of Yahweh. And it was wrong. So Jezebel finally comes. And at her time, her and Ahaz, Ahab, And she introduces to the very first time something completely foreign to Israel, the worship of the Baals. That was the first time in Israel's history that a foreign deity had been introduced into the life of Israel. There's no doubt Gideon and a lot of those guys had idols, but it was an idol to Yahweh. So do you see the difference? That's a big difference. Both are wrong, but one's worse than the other. One is definitely worse than the other because they're still worshiping Yahweh in one, but in the other one, it's a complete foreign deity, whether it's Baal or Asherah or whatever foreign god it is. She was the first one that introduced a false deity into the mix of Israel. So that kind of tells you right there What happened here? There's no doubt when we looked at Pergamum, pagan practices started infiltrating the church, but those pagan practices were still under the name of Jesus. It was wrong, and they're still wrong today, but they weren't worshiping another god. What has happened now in church history, at this point in time in church history, is a foreign deity had been introduced into the church. by this Jezebel. The Jezebel is this foreign deity. That's the concept there. And what does she cause them to do? She teaches, seduces my servants to commit fornication, spiritual adultery, okay? And eat things, sacrifice idols. She introduces idolatry into the church. Obviously, the fornication is referencing to sexual immorality. Every time in scripture you see idolatry, what follows behind idolatry is sexual immorality. Everywhere you go, it always is there. So when this foreign deity gets introduced into the church, idolatry pops up, sexual immorality starts popping up. Now, that's why this era is called the Pornocracy. Because sexual immorality among the clergy skyrocketed. It went ballistics, man. It went crazy. It's bizarre. So at this time, on page 59, you have all the things that were introduced at this time. Celibacy among the priests was the first time introduced. Now, the reason it was introduced is not really what you think it was. They said it was for spiritual issues. It was not. It was to take the priest's money. Because a lot of the priests who went into the clergy were very wealthy, and they came from families that were very wealthy, that put them in through seminary and all the training that they had to go through. Being a priest, you were very educated. You had to have the money to do that. They had families that were very wealthy. So you know what the Pope started doing? He said this, we're gonna take all these priests' money and estates, and we're gonna take it into the church, and this is how we're gonna do it. they won't have any heirs. So it'll stop with them. We'll tell them they have to give their inheritance to the Catholic Church at that point in time. And so they made the celibacy go out. So now the priests can't have babies, can't have kids. And before this, all the pastors were married and had kids. And this stops, and so the Vatican, well I don't want to say the Vatican wasn't in place at this point in time, but the Catholic Church ended up amassing all this inheritance from all these priests because of the rule of celibacy. Okay, that was the real reason of why they issued it. The result of celibacy is you're telling these men you can't get married. And they're like Paul, they'll say, well, you know, we're going to be all there. We're going to make all these men like the apostle Paul. And Paul, what did he say about this? Not everyone can be like me. OK, and he made the point, first Corinthians, chapter 70, if you're burning, you need to get married. You can't control yourself. You need to be married because not all are spiritual eunuchs. And so if you're not a spiritual eunuch, you're not supposed to practice celibacy. You're supposed to get married so you can express yourself sexually in the right confines. Because Paul says, if you don't, if you practice celibacy and you can't control yourself, it will lead to sexual immorality every time. Satan, you'll get a foothold by Satan. You'll come in there and tempt them. Well, that's exactly what happened to all these priests. Same time, they have the nuns. They're sworn to a life of celibacy. So guess what started popping up among the priests and the nuns? Orphanages. That make sense? Everywhere they put monasteries and then, I don't wanna say nunnery, convents, not nunnery. Monasteries, convents, orphanages, all three together. There's no doubt there's a lot of orphans coming off the streets and they did that, but a lot of the ladies were getting pregnant. But they didn't stop there. They started allowing themselves to go to prostitutes. They had to be celibate, they couldn't get married, but they gave themselves a pass. Well, I can still relieve myself with a prostitute because I'm not getting married, I'm still selling celibate. So by the time Martin Luther gets into Rome, and he walks up there and he sees Rome for the very first time, he notices the priests are going off with prostitutes. It got so ranked, that's why this era is called the Pornocracy. It was bad, it was extremely bad. Okay, the other outgrowth of this, and this should come to no surprise to anybody in this room, when you tell a bunch of men who are not called to celibacy that you have to be celibate, and you can't be around a woman, guess what ends up happening? Social homosexuality, same thing that happens in prisons. Same thing, social homosexuality. It is not a surprise that the Vatican today has a huge problem of homosexuality in the Vatican itself. among the cardinals, among the priests there. And it makes perfect sense that even in America, I think I heard Mike Gendron say the number's very high as far as percentage-wise of how many priests are homosexual, that go into the ministry as a homosexual. They may not be practicing it, but they are homosexual as in their thought processes and things like that. It doesn't come to surprise then that molestation of altar boys has been happening forever. It's been happening. It's all always suppressed and not talked about. Now I know they're letting, this is another thing, now they're letting little girls be altar girls now in the Catholic church I've seen. That's setting them up to be raped and molested as well. No joke, man, this stuff is happening. And when it happens, the Vatican or in the Catholic Church, diocese will cover it up and they'll just shift priests here and there. And that's been a big scandal, not only in America, but in Europe and all kinds of different places. It's prevalent. And this goes back to when this started. So it's a big problem. And Satan has taken advantage of that and has wreaked havoc through the Catholic Church because of that. So it's very immoral, very immoral. But the issue of the doctrine of celibacy is there, yes. They're not gonna talk about how bad it went, obviously, but they're gonna talk about when it was issued. And they're not gonna talk about the real reason why they issued it. They just basically will say, well, they need to be focusing on God's work and like the Apostle Paul. But that's not what happened. In history, they seized the property of all the priests, is what happened. Catholic Church, remember, Where you see idolatry, where you see false religions, money is always attached to it. Always. Catholic Church is the wealthiest false church apostate church on the planet. They have amassed so much wealth. They owned all of Italy at one point in time. They are extremely wealthy. Extremely wealthy. I mean, the Vatican has its own representatives, folks. You have your own ambassadors to the Vatican. This thing's like a small country. It's crazy. It's crazy. But like I've told you before, this issue of homosexuality is rampant even today. The Vatican guards talk about being hit on by the cardinals and priests all the time. The main apartment building that a lot of the cardinals and bishops at the Vatican live at, the very bottom of it is a gay bar, and they frequent it. You're not going to hear this anywhere else, but that's the truth, though. I've read those articles. That's what they say. And the Catholic Church continues to try to bury that. But they have a problem. That's why that that the pope that was before this last one got out. He was pressured so highly by this. They have a lobbyist group of homosexual priests and stuff in the Vatican itself put so much pressure on him. He had to leave. It was something they couldn't fix. And so It's a major issue. But it shouldn't surprise anybody. False religions produce sexual immorality. It happens every time. So far so good? Okay. It's a puke factor, I know. It's a puke factor. I understand. But you've got to understand, that's the puke factor of false religions, man. It's bad, I know. Okay, let's go back to that Scripture and let's read a little bit more. What are you saying? And I gave her a time that she should repent, and she wills not to repent of her fornication. Behold, I cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation." And if you want to mark in your book, that is a term you must understand. He is talking about the tribulation period. Except they repent of their works. And I will kill her children with death, And all the churches shall know that I am he who searches and reigns in hearts." I know that's King James, and Frutenbaum's doing King James in there because of copyright issues. The point is, Christ is saying to the Catholic Church, specifically with the Church of Thyatira, you're going to go through the Tribulation. And I'm going to kill all your children. Now, the children means those who follow the Vatican, those who follow Roman Catholicism. He's going to give them a time to repent, but the repentance will come in the tribulation. The rapture should wake them up, that they got left behind. He is telling them, I'm going to send you through the tribulation. So here's the question. Who among Christendom gets raptured? Only believers. See, this is why I'm saying these seven churches are Christendom. It's not specifically just talking to believers. It's talking to those who claim to know Christ, who say they're Christians, but are not. He's telling them, you're not, and I'm going to leave you behind. And that leaving you behind is going to give you a chance to repent and get your act straight. Otherwise, I will kill you. Right. And so in this sense, he's warning them. He's also going to warn the church of Laodicea who will be left behind as well. He invites them to salvation, but whether they do or not, it's dependent on them. And as you can see, they're going to be judged if they don't. They'll lose their life in the tribulation is the idea. And then not only will they lose their life, they'll die a second death. And he'll give some promises here, but let's keep reading. And I will give unto you, each one of you, according to your works, But to you, I say, to the rest that are in Thyatira, or basically just exchange that with the Catholic Church, as many as have not this teaching, who know not the deep things of Satan, I'll talk about that in a bit, as they are wont to say, I cast you upon no other burden. Nevertheless, that which ye have, hold fast till I come. And he who overcomes, what is an overcomer? 1 John chapter 5 is a believer. And he who keeps my works unto the end, to him I will give authority over the nations. Catholic church thinks they have authority over the nations and they did for a long time. But in the kingdom, Christ will give true believers the authority over the nation and he shall rule them with a rod of iron as a vessel of the potter are broken to shrivers. As I also have received from my father, I will give him the morning star. It's Christ. He who has an ear, let him hear what the spirit says to the churches. Giving the morning star is to accept Christ as Lord and Savior. Christ is the morning star. And so the idea is, you can escape this. Escape from Thyatira. Escape from the Roman Catholic Church. This is me. This is me, personally. I escaped from Thyatira. God called me out of it, as He calls anybody out of the Catholic Church who will listen to Him. He is telling them, get out. If you're part of that system, I'm going to destroy that system. It's ran by Jezebel, a false deity. So when you see Midnight Mass on Christmas and you watch the pageantry that the Roman Catholics do, you're looking at a false Babylonian church that Christ is going to destroy. It's a false church. And here's the deal. I know I'm talking to the choir, speaking to the choir, but my friends, you know what the big push now in evangelicalism is today? Go back to Rome. They're really not that bad. That's what the push is now. And that, hey, you know, there are brothers and sisters in Christ, and Rick Warren is leading that charge. saying, they disagree on secondary issues. They agree that Jesus is God. Yeah, I know they do, but they don't agree that He paid all on the cross. So to have salvation, you have to not only believe in the person of Christ, you have to believe in the work of Christ. And if you don't have both of those, you're not saved. So what do they do? They attack the work of Christ. The Jezebel aspect attacks the work of Christ. So they maintain the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the hypostatic union, but they foul up his work and that Christ didn't pay at all. That again is a false gospel. And you can't be saved because of that. Yeah, so You don't have to go over the deity of Christ. You would with a Mormon or Jehovah Witness, there's no doubt about that. With a Catholic church, or any Catholic, you have to focus on the work of Christ. And you have to focus their attention on what He did on the cross, that He paid it all, and that they can't work for salvation. And if they understand that, then you bridge them to their church and say, well, if you agree that Christ did all the payment, then why does your church say that salvation exists only through them, and that you've got to do all these other things to maintain and keep your salvation and earn salvation, the seven sacraments. And then they have to be confronted with that, and then that's where you go from there. And so a lot of times they live with this compartmentalization in their thinking, and you have to bridge those two in their mind to see that you have two mutually exclusive beliefs that are contradicting themselves. If you can do that, you'll win them. Yeah. It's very true because you have to say that historically during this epoch of time, there was no Protestant churches. It was all Catholic at this point in time. And what did Christ say? Because if you say that there was no believers during this time, you're contradicting Christ. Because what did he say about the church? I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. So there's always been a remnant of believers all throughout church history, even during the pornography or Thyatira era of the Roman Catholic Church. And it was despite the teachings of Rome. They were truly saved. They understood salvation. And I can tell you this, you don't have a lot of church history about this because they were destroyed. They were martyred. Once the Catholic Church found things start popping up, they killed them, burned them at the stake. And there's no doubt there was true believers. And I would say when I got saved, I stayed in the Catholic Church for two years. Now, I was convicted enough finally to get out of there and understand, wait, this is this is all wrong. But I got saved and remained in there for several years. I didn't know what what I was doing until I started getting discipled. Then I started seeing it for what it was and I finally left. So, yes, it's very possible. And it's not healthy for them, not healthy at all, because they're not going to be discipled. So they might have seen the Billy Graham crusade and got saved. And if they don't get discipled, they will stay in there and have a syncretism going on. But it's very possible, very possible. No doubt about it. So yeah, when you turn your back on that, you're turning your back on heritage. It's just like when I lived in New York, I ran into a lot of Irish Catholics and they were all like it, but it was a heritage, Stuart. So it was almost like Judaism. You're asking them to leave their heritage. And it's that way in the Latin American countries with Catholicism as well. It's part of their heritage and they feel that they're leaving their heritage. Well, they just kind of overlook it, but there's no doubt in the early days it was a lot of tension. A lot of tension. And you just, you have to realize that what Christ said, I have not come to bring peace, I've come to bring a sword. A man will be against his father or be against his son. But that's the admonition in scriptures. You get out of there. Get out of there, my people. If you want, you've got to get out. Yeah, and no. And it takes a while, and you get discipled, you feel convicted enough by the Holy Spirit, and you eventually leave. And I couldn't stay anymore. I mean, I started seeing it all for what it was, and I'm like, wow, this is idolatry, and I've got to get out of here, man, this is crazy. I knew, the minute I accepted Christ, I stopped praying to Mary. For some reason, I just knew that's wrong. I can't be doing that junk. And I knew that the Pope was infallible, and that stuff kind of went by the wayside. But the other stuff came along. And you had to think, like during this age, there were priests preaching the gospel. And maybe they weren't found out or whatever, but when they did get found out, they were killed, or burned at the stake, whatever. But yeah, I mean, you would have those kind of out-poppings that happened. So that happened. But I want you to notice before we close up on this church, look on page 59, all the stuff that was introduced at this point in time. Page 59 in the bottom of this. Look at all that was introduced. Justification by works, not simply by grace through faith. Baptismal regeneration. Worship of images. There's where the idolatry came through and all the statues and stuff. Celibacy. Confessionalism. When sins are confessed to a priest, obviously, and the priest has the power to declare absolution for those sins. Purgatory was introduced, which is not found in the Scriptures. Transubstantiation, the concept of a continual and perpetual sacrifice of Jesus. Every Mass is another sacrifice of Jesus. Did you know that? In their theology, they are re-sacrificing Christ. I mean, ask yourself, why does the Catholic Church have an altar? No one ever connects that. Neither do the Catholics. You only do one thing on an altar. Sacrifice. We don't have an altar at church. They do. Because they are sacrificing Christ on that altar again. And so when the mass is done, the priest will go in Latin, sometimes it's in English, and when he turns the wine into the blood of Christ and the bread into the body of Christ, you literally, in their minds, in their theology, you literally have the body and blood of Christ on that altar. And they sacrifice it again. Now that's interesting. Because we believe in the hypostatic union of Christ, and this is a theological blunder on their part. We believe Christ is the God-man. In His deity, He's omnipresent. But in His humanity, He is not omnipresent, He is locatable. Where is the body or the humanity of Christ currently? He's on the throne of the Father right now in heaven. Christ, the human, remember, you're talking about a dual nature, is locatable right now in heaven on the throne of the Father. Yet Christ is the God-man in His deity. He's omnipresent. I know that that makes our minds go on tilt, but it tells you something that you cannot do with the body of Christ. You can't put the deity of Christ into His humanity, therefore He will cease to be human. And He has to be 100% God and 100% man. And the Reformers knew this very well and corrected the doctrine. So the Catholic church makes a fatal mistake of infusing the deity into the body of Christ, and therefore they're sacrificing his body over every Catholic church around the world at different points in time. That is a mistake theologically to do. You can't infuse his deity into his humanity. Absolutely. It's the actual one. So if you notice, when you go into a Catholic church, they go down and they'll genuflect before they go in their pew. I did it all the time. Why are they bowing a knee? What is in there that they're bowing a knee to? Because they've infused the deity into the body of the Messiah, they now have an idol right behind them in that wafer and in that wine that's behind the altar. And they say, no, he is really present right there, and they'll have a candle on the left-hand side to indicate that the idol is in there. That is Jezebel! You know, Larry, it's a basic interpretive problem that they have because they've Gentile-ed the Scriptures, like you guys have studied. The Hebraisms, you can't miss it. It's a metaphor. You must eat my body or eat my flesh and drink my blood. Remember he was telling them that? And he was using metaphorical language, which was very Hebraic, to do in that culture. And so they had a little trouble understanding what he was theologically talking about. But he wasn't pushing cannibalism on them. He was speaking metaphorically. But that's Jewish. But when the Alexandrian school took over and decided to not only spiritualize the text, they Hellenized the text. Brought in Greek thought into the scriptures instead of a Jewish thought. You get that. That's why it's so important to understand the Jewish context of what we're looking at. You missed the metaphors. And so, yeah, do this in reverence for me. So you now have, what, how many Catholics? One billion on the planet that believe that's not a metaphor. And so what they're doing is when they're bowing a knee like this, that is an idol. That is an idol. That's why the Jezebel aspect has been introduced into the Catholic Church. It's full-blown idolatry. And you can't get past that. And what did I tell you is connected to idolatry? Sexual immorality. And it's always connected. And yet, I know your friendly Catholic neighbor is a nice person and they keep their yard clean and stuff like that. But they're like me, I was a walking idol factory. I had crucifixes. I had palms that were blessed by the priest. I had all kinds of weird stuff going on. You know, the interesting... No, you won't. You won't find it. You won't find it. Now, notice this, what you guys are picking up on. As many as of not this teaching who know not the deep things of Satan, See, in the Catholic Church, what did I tell you got introduced in Pergamum? The mystery cult of Babylon. It's secretive. I'm not going to tell you what I'm doing. It's like the Wizard of Oz. There's a curtain and you can't see who's behind the thing cranking the wheel and making the smoke come up. It's all secret. That's what Mystery Babylon is. It's a mystery. The Catholic Church is a mystery, so they're not gonna explain it to you. So the scriptures they give you, they'll give you on a missilette out of context on Sunday morning, so you don't see the rest of the context. That's classic of Jehovah Witnesses, that's classic of Mormonism. All Christian science, they pull scriptures out of context and give it to you in bits and pieces instead of the whole context. So they do that to hide things from you because it's the deep things of Satan. If you study the Freemasons, The guys at the Potato Bowl at B.C. with the big Shriner hat. I've got to tell you about that hat. You guys know about that hat? Oh, man. It's bad. Okay, Potato Bowl guys. It's the same concept of mystery. I'm not going to tell you what we're up to until you get up into the 33-degree mason, then I'll spill my gut. But by the time I get you at 33-degree, I've got you sucked in. I've got you sucked in and you're not going to spill your guts. It's the same thing with the Catholic Church, same thing with Mormonism. I'll tell you a little bit, a little bit, and the more deeper you get into this, the more I'll reveal more to you. It's a mystery. It's called the deep things of Satan. Yes, to be dependent on them. Yes, you got it. That sets up what we call the cult of personality or dependency on the priest. And that's a very unhealthy thing, because what can happen from that is what's called the Nicolaitanism, lording it over them. And that's classic in cults. You become dependent on them. Yes, that's why he's on a crucifix, because they're perpetual. Now, guess what Thyatira means? Continual sacrifice. Does that surprise anybody? The name of the church is continual sacrifice, and yet that is the biggest doctrine that came out of that era, is a perpetual sacrifice of Messiah on their altars. So, now you think, what's the game in Satan doing that? It's to make people dependent on the priesthood. Because if you have to get salvation by going to that altar and doing a perpetual sacrifice, I keep you going, I keep you coming, man. I make you dependent on the church. I make you dependent on the priests. And where does your money go? Into their coffers. Think about the doctrine of purgatory. How do you get your family members out of there? And how much do you have to pay? We don't know, but you just better keep doing it. It's perpetual pressure to you to give money to the church, and you don't know when it ends. Because you don't know if Uncle Harry is out of there. He's still in there. He could have a 10,000-year sentence in purgatory. And so they don't know. And so what would they say to the priest? Well, how much do we give? And he would say, give all your life. How much? I don't know. The more you give, the less time he has in there. You know how bad of a crook he was. I mean, it was a game.