Did everyone get one of the handouts? Everyone should have a handout. We have several more here. Right there. Yeah, very good. Anybody else? Everyone have one? I'd like to begin by reading a few verses from 1 Corinthians chapter 6. Just a few verses 1 Corinthians 6 verses 9 10 and 11. I'm not going to be speaking particularly from this passage but I'm going to make a couple of references to it as we go along. And it seems to me a particularly appropriate one for that 1 Corinthians chapter 6 9 10 and 11. Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God. Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you, but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of God. Amen. Let's bow together in a word of prayer. Our Heavenly Father, we thank you for the privilege of being able to gather in this way this morning and for the things that we are able to talk about, O Lord, things that come from your word, things that clearly we need to hear, to think about, and to learn. And we ask, oh Lord, that we might learn indeed. We thank you that you've given us your word, but Lord, you've also given us the Holy Spirit who first caused these things to be written down in the first place. And the Spirit has maintained the word, it has never disappeared, and it continues to speak to us even to this day. And Lord, not only that we might learn, but that we might grow in grace before you, in our knowledge of Christ and in our love and devotion and commitment to him. And Lord, we pray that we might be useful in your service, that we might be faithful but also effective in reaching out with the gospel and seeking to see those, O Lord, who are still under the bondage of sin. to come under the sound of the gospel, to be liberated, O Lord, to be set free as you're pleased to make men willing in a day of your power. O Lord, we ask that you'd be pleased to work mightily in our midst. Lord, we thank you for all the office bearers who have come and others, even those who are not office bearers. We think today also of those who cannot be here. We think of Martin Trass. And Lord, in a very particular way, we pray for him. We thank you for him. We ask, O Lord, that he might be encouraged as the days go on, as he considers your promises, O Lord, and all the words of scripture that he has over the years treasured. Lord, may this be a very special time, and as he has opportunity to witness to others, we ask that in all things that the name of Jesus Christ might be lifted up. O Lord, we seek your blessing upon us. We seek not the favor of the world. We seek not the accolades of men, but the blessing of our God and the benefits, O Lord, that you are pleased to bestow upon us the unsearchable riches of Christ. And all for his name's sake we ask it. Amen. My subject this morning is ministering to the homosexual. And to my understanding, this is not a subject that we have taken up in our circles at all, certainly not recently. And yet, because of our changing world, I'm convinced that it's one that we need to look at, one that we need to think about very carefully in the light of the Word of God. And the sooner we do that, I believe, the better it is. There are other subjects that might also be touched upon. Someone mentioned earlier the matter of transgenders and that sort of thing. And perhaps sometime that might be taken up as a separate subject. But today I want to focus particularly on the homosexual. and what it is that we might do for him, what sort of ministry we might have to him. Essentially what I want to do this morning is simply to read the paper that I have prepared. And I say that for a couple of reasons. First of all, this is not a subject I feel as comfortable with as many others, but also because some of what I want to bring out here needs to be stated with some precision, and I want to be rather careful about that if I can be. I do plan, however, from time to time just to break out and talk about some things as well. But for the most part, I would like simply to read the paper that I have. And the handouts are intended so that you can follow along the several points that I want to make. So if that's agreeable, I'd like simply to begin with the paper itself. Amidst all the misinformation circulating in our society about homosexuality, There are certain known facts which are indisputable. We learn them by studying Holy Scripture, what we call special revelation, and by observing the natural order of the world about us, what we call general revelation. And these known facts need to be carefully considered if the Christian community is to minister faithfully and effectively to those homosexuals with whom we are in some meaningful contact. In this presentation, I hope to do two things. First, I want to state and comment briefly on five of these known facts. It seems to me that this is a good place with which to begin. What is it that we know first of all? Some of the most important things, we need to state those right off the top. And then secondly, in coming out of that, I will outline five basic principles of ministry which we might employ, especially in regard to homosexuals who show an interest in the gospel and express a desire to learn more. Before any of that, however, I should make two things perfectly clear at the outset. First, this presentation is not directed to any one kind of office bearer. It's not simply to pastors or to elders or to deacons, but it's to all the office bearers collectively and indeed to the entire congregation. We are, all of us in this together, Though as in the ministry, every ministry in the church, there's an expectation that consistory should lead and set an encouraging example for others. And secondly, I'm not in any way claiming to be an expert in this. And if there's anything I want to emphasize today, it surely is that. I'm not an expert in this at all. After several years of pastoral ministry, and marriage and family counseling, I must acknowledge that I have dealt with relatively few homosexuals. Relatively few. That said, however, the austere approach, which is too often been practiced by churches in the past, simply condemning homosexuality and by extension homosexuals, along with the soft approach, which is too often practiced by churches today, either accepting homosexuality as an alternate and legitimate lifestyle, or simply ignoring it altogether, are both doing far more harm than good. And clearly a more biblical approach needs to be sought. The purpose of this presentation, therefore, is not so much to answer questions, but to begin a discussion. If this talk has any focus at all, I hope it will have that focus, to begin a discussion which will challenge us all to go back to the Bible, and at the same time, seek by the grace of God to speak the truth in love. Now, I'm going to begin in a way that some of you may think is being very negative, and perhaps too harsh. I don't mean to be too harsh. But some of these things, I believe, need to be said. I want to end up on a very different note, a note that is very positive. Some may think it's too soft. I don't mean to be too soft. But I want to start with the negative and I want to end with the positive. And you realize, and this is true for all of us, whatever bondage we've been delivered from, the difference here is the intervening grace of God. It's God himself who makes the difference in the lives of people. And so I just want to begin with something of an introduction like that, and I hope that you keep that in mind. First, let's begin with some of the known facts. And when I say known facts, I don't mean that everybody knows these. I'm simply talking about facts that are well-established. They are, as I say, indisputable. And these are facts that ought to be known. We should know them. We're in a better position if we begin knowing some of these things. Well, here are five of the known facts that we dare not ignore. Number one, homosexuality presents a very serious health hazard. And that's the first point on the handout that you have before you. We should be aware of this. Homosexuality presents a serious health hazard. About 15 years ago, A study in Vancouver published in the Journal of the Canadian Medical Association, and later in the International Journal of Epidemiology, showed that the life expectancy of homosexual men is 8 to 20 years less than that of heterosexual men. Now, I don't know if you do that, but it is a fact. The life expectancy of homosexual men is 8 to 20 years less than that of heterosexual men. and similar findings have been shown in other studies around the world. It's worth noting that the life expectancy of smokers is only four years less than that of non-smokers. Yet while millions of dollars have been spent in new legislation and ad campaigns to stamp out the public health hazard of smoking, nothing is spent in campaigning against the health hazard of homosexual behavior which is two to five times greater. Now why should this known health hazard, which endangers the lives of so many people, be buried in obscurity? And it is, but we have to ask that question. Why should this be buried in obscurity? The fact that it is so buried confirms what we have known for a long time, that homosexuality is a protected lifestyle in the now politically correct, Western world. Homosexuality is protected in our society and we need to recognize that. It's interesting how over the last number of years, smoking has been demonized. Society generally is against smoking and they try to discourage it in every way they can. And we see all kinds of evidence for that. But over the same period of time, Homosexuality has become more acceptable in our society and even embraced. It might surprise most people to learn that AIDS counts for only about two years of the reported health risk. Remember what I said now, the life expectancy of homosexual men is eight to 20 years less than that of heterosexual men. but AIDS counts really for only about two years of that. We may not know the whole reason for the remaining six to 18 years, and without further study we may not find out, but the attitude of the homosexual community seems to account for a lot of it. In 2013, for instance, Vancouver Coastal Health and the BC Centre for Disease Control reported that levels of syphilis infections in homosexual and bisexual men were the highest they have been in more than 30 years in the Vancouver area. A recent newsletter from Real Women of Canada tells us that doctors are struggling to cope with a shortage of the main drug used to treat this potentially deadly infection. They're having trouble keeping up. just with the supply of medicine that is needed to counteract and try to meet the need. Yet, homosexuals persist in their promiscuous lifestyle, claiming that it is an integral part of who they are. Now, I've been quoting a little bit from statistics here in BC, but let's go over to Alberta for a moment. From 2014 to 2015, just in that one year, we're talking one year, From 2014 to 2015, cases of syphilis went up 50%. Cases of gonorrhea went up 80%. And again, it's mostly in the homosexual community that we find that. No wonder doctors are having difficulty collecting and storing the drugs that are needed to deal with it. Because what we're looking at is really on an epidemic basis. This is more than our society in recent history has seen. Yet, as they say, homosexuals persist in their promiscuous lifestyle, claiming that it is an integral part of who they are. They insist that this is the medication that their provincial health program should provide, and that we should all just pay for it, because this is what their lifestyle is about, and they should be able to maintain it. As I say, I'm starting off on a rather negative note, but I believe that these are things that need to be said. Number two, another known fact. The Bible is consistently against homosexual behavior and speaks of it in the Old Testament, in the book of Leviticus, as an abomination and as something that is abhorrent to our holy God. In the New Testament, we find the same thing. In the letter to the Romans, for instance, homosexuality is called a vile passion. It's called unnatural and shameful. In the first letter to Timothy, it is set forth as something contrary to sound doctrine. In other words, it flies in the face of what should be embraced. And in the first letter to the Corinthians, the warning is given not to be deceived. That was the passage we read earlier. Not to be deceived, indicating how easily we may be deceived. For neither homosexuals, we're told, these are the aggressive partners, nor sodomites, better translated male prostitutes. These may be the passive partners. They're not necessarily homosexuals at all, but they are those who engage in homosexual acts for money, plus a number of other people who happen to be listed in this passage as well. We're told that they will not inherit the kingdom of God. They will not inherit the kingdom of God. Now, all this is important because It is too often said that biblical teaching is really just culturally conditioned. I don't know if you've heard that before. It's a very popular idea in our age. Biblical teaching, whatever it may be, is culturally conditioned. Certainly, a lot of unbelievers head for that right away, and I think too many believers have been influenced by that kind of teaching as well. The word of God is culturally conditioned. that what is true in one historical or cultural context is not necessarily true in a very different context. But I want you to notice something, that by quoting so many passages as this, both Old and New Testament, which are many centuries removed from one another, and several cultures removed from one another, yet all saying the same thing, it's clear that this teaching on homosexual behavior is universally and unchangeably true. This is God's final word on the subject. This is what he's told us and we have no right to alter it or to think that the Lord may sometime change his mind. Moreover, the homosexual himself needs to be made aware of this teaching of God's holy word if he is to receive any sure guidance and motivation on changing his behavior. We're not doing him any favor by shielding him from this information or by assuming that it's just too harsh and offensive for him to hear. So here are a couple of points right off the bat. First, that homosexuality presents a very serious health hazard. And secondly, we need not be surprised by that because the Lord our God himself, our maker and keeper and judge, has told us very specifically and in no uncertain terms that this is an abomination. Let's go on to point number three, a third known fact. While the Bible is steadfastly against homosexual behavior, it is equally clear that homosexuals may be saved, and we need to realize that. We need to be very clear in our minds that homosexuals may indeed be saved. In 1 Corinthians 6, for example, in that very passage where we are warned not to be deceived, that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God, we go on to read verse 11, and such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of God. And what a glorious revelation of God's saving grace in Christ. And what a comfort to those who struggle with this sin to know what hope the gospel holds out to them. Because it does, and we see it in this passage. This is not a sin, therefore. Homosexuality is not a sin like the sin against the Holy Spirit, which is unpardonable. This is a sin that may be pardoned. How important it is for us For all who seek to minister to the homosexual to know this, and how vital and urgent it is for the homosexual himself to learn it as well. This is not to say that he may continue in his sin, no. He must repent of it. Indeed, as with all of us, he must repent of all his sins, no matter what they are, and trust in Christ alone. But this is the gracious promise of our God. And how often we find this throughout the scriptures, Old and New Testament alike. Psalm 145 verse 18, The Lord is near to all who call upon Him, to all who call upon Him in truth. And again, whoever calls upon the name of the Lord. And notice there are no qualifications that are given to that. Whoever calls upon the name of the Lord, who calls upon Him in truth, will be saved. What a wonderful gospel, what a glorious Savior we have, and what marvelous hope for us all. Fact number four, we may not know with certainty how someone becomes a homosexual, whether he's born with that propensity or learns it later on, or even by a combination of nature and nurture together, But one thing we know, and this is absolutely certain, namely, the Bible says that we're all born in sin. Every one of us, we're all born in sin. And that we need to fight against those sinful tendencies, whatever they may be, and whenever they appear. We need all of us to fight against sin. For too long, people have tried to excuse their sinful ways by saying that they were born that way. or that they were raised that way or that in one way or another it's someone else's fault. And really that's all it is is just an excuse. It's a failure to confront one's own moral responsibility. The word of God is very clear however that there is only one effective way to deal with sin any sin and that is to repent of it which is to fight it to slay it and to seek by the grace of God to put it right away. Now the homosexual should be made aware that his best hope of mortifying this sin in his life is to become a Christian. That's what he needs, that's what we all need. He needs the Holy Spirit in other words, he needs the Spirit of Christ who helps the Christian in all his weaknesses so that he may fight and conquer this sin not in his own wisdom and strength but in the might and power of the Lord. Paul could testify And what a glorious text this is. We find it in Philippians 4.13. Paul could testify, I can do all things. To be sure, I can do all that God requires of me. How? Through Christ who strengthens me. This is a help that the believer has that the unbeliever does not have or know anything about. So whatever problem we're dealing with in life, whatever sin we're having to fight against, What a wonderful thing it is that the Lord Himself has been pleased to equip us to fight against that sin and to pursue holiness and to do what is right and pleasing in the sight of God. He's given us His Word, the wisdom that we need. He's given us the Holy Spirit who testifies to and with the Word upon our hearts that we might be convinced of it but also that we might be encouraged all along the way. And number five, one more known fact that we need to consider here. While we may not yet understand exactly how someone becomes a homosexual, there is overwhelming evidence that there is a learning factor involved. Overwhelming evidence. There is a learning factor involved, and we know this from the growing number of cases in which sexual orientation has been changed. Clearly, if sexual orientation cannot be changed, then what would we say as to how we came about this way? But because it can be changed and because it is being changed, we know that there is a learning factor involved. Dr. Robert Spitzer, for example, who was a strong supporter of gay activism and played a pivotal role in 1973 in removing homosexuality from the Psychiatric Manual of Mental Disorders, now challenges the assumption that he once held that homosexual orientation can never be changed. And why does he do that? Why does he challenge the previous assumption that he held to so strongly? It's because of the mounting evidence that he had been wrong in his original assessment. Statistically, a small number of heterosexual men are becoming homosexuals. People are changing sexual orientation, from heterosexual to homosexual. A more disturbing number of women, a more disturbing number of women are becoming lesbians. And while I don't have the figures, an increasing number of books are being written A number of testimonies are being published in one way or another by ex-homosexual Christians who have become heterosexuals. Clearly, changing sexual orientation is possible. And whatever anybody may be saying, it is happening. It's going on in our day. Now, this should be encouraging information to those homosexuals who want to change their sexual orientation, though we should not insist that they do so in order to have a saving interest in Christ. It's not the sexual orientation which needs to be changed so much, but the sinful behavior, whether aggressive or passive homosexuality, which needs to be stopped. This may cause a question or two at the end, and it would be good for our discussion, but let me just repeat that last part once again. It's not the sexual orientation which needs to be changed so much, but the sinful behavior with a regressive or passive homosexuality which needs to be stopped. Okay, that's the first half. Those are basic known facts and they can help us a lot in terms of directing us in the kind of ministry that we want to have should a homosexual come along or we have opportunity in our own way to reach out to him. But now I want to come to the second part and this is really the focus of what we're looking at this morning and that is some basic principles of ministry. What are some basic principles of ministry to the homosexual? And again, there are five of them that I want to bring out in a very particular way. First, let's start here. The Lord has called us in the Great Commission to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. And notice it's not merely a matter of going into all the world, but seeking and doing so to reach every individual person with the gospel. Every individual person without exception of race, culture, or even sexual preference. What a massive task, one that calls for a major commitment to the work of missions. And either we must go ourselves and whatever capacity we possibly can or we must support those who go in our place. Clearly, our first responsibility is to those who are nearest to us, those who are nearest including family, friends and neighbors and our fellow workers and so on. It may well be as the circle widens and we seek to go out to the broader community, It may be that certain doors are closed to us and that even with our best efforts we have no means of opening those doors. It may be, too, that one such door that we find is closed to us is to the homosexual community. If, however, that door is not completely closed, if the Lord should grant us entrance into it or even place just one homosexual or lesbian on our path, surely we must seize that opportunity. In the Great Commission, we see it. We must seize the opportunities that are presented to us. Now, the question is, are we willing to do it? It's not a question, should we do it? The question is, are we willing to do it? We need to lay aside our own prejudice if we find that to be a problem. We need to press ourselves to do what we know is right and be prepared to step outside our own comfort zone. Jesus spoke against partiality. He spoke against giving the best seats to our friends. If a known homosexual were to come to one of our meetings or into our home, would not our failure to receive and welcome him be tantamount to our passing judgment against him or even to our shutting him out? The Lord Jesus himself is the model that we are to copy, the best example there is whose behavior we are to imitate. In Luke 15, the Pharisees and scribes complained of Jesus saying, this man receives sinners and eats with them. But is that not what we're all to do, to receive sinners and eat with them? And should we not be glad to do that, knowing that we were once of their number? We were once sinners in bondage ourselves. It may have been a different kind of bondage, but we were sinners in bondage. And knowing, too, that the angels of heaven rejoiced when we were called out from the world and repented. So this brings us to the first principle for ministering that I've listed on the handout. The Lord has called us to preach the gospel to every creature, and that includes the homosexual. We need to remember that first. Secondly, another principle, we need to remember, believer, that we are, each and every one of us, the chief of sinners. It's a place that we need to begin, isn't it? Always in talking to anybody, and really on any subject, but especially in terms of evangelism, we need to begin with the fact that we are the chief of sinners ourselves. We need to see ourselves that way, biblically, That's who and what we are. What that means in the most practical terms is that we're no better than anybody else. Sin is sin, after all, and the wages of sin, all sin, is death. So whatever our own besetting sins may be, we're no better than the unbeliever to whom we are seeking to give the gospel. And knowing this to be so and accepting it as a fact is an important, if humbling, starting place in evangelizing anybody. including the homosexual. For years heterosexuals have used a variety of pejorative terms to insult homosexuals. But clearly this has to stop if we wish to win them to Christ. And in the same way the homosexual lobby is now using the term homophobe to insult us. And this too has to stop if they were ever to give us in the gospel we preach any serious attention. It speaks to attitude, doesn't it? It speaks to attitude, and we may be sure that whatever one's attitude, whether condescending or welcoming, it is discerned quickly and easily by all who hear him. People pick up attitude. Let the change begin with us, if it has not already happened. Speaking of homosexuals with respect, and addressing them as those who, like us, are made in the image of God and called to live for His honor and His glory. And when we start to think that way, and when we start to pray for their souls, then will we start to talk that way as well and also mean it. And it's so important that we should, by the grace of God, seek to bridge that gap We need to begin by checking our own attitude. So here we have the second principle and the Bible tells us that every believer is the chief of sinners and that he is therefore no better than anyone else. Let's look at a third principle for ministry. How then shall we treat the homosexual who seeks our counsel and help even if it is just to ask a few questions for his own information. And perhaps in the beginning that's all it is. Someone comes up and asks a rather innocent question. We may know either because he tells us or because of his own reputation or whatever else that this is a homosexual, but he asks us a very telling question regarding matters of the faith. How should we treat him? Well, it's a good question. How would you want to be treated if your besetting sins were known? Here we fall back on the golden rule, doing unto others what we would have them do unto us, which should always, of course, be considered in evangelizing anyone. After all, as we've just considered, we do not want to offend this fellow needlessly. The offense of the cross is quite enough in itself without adding any personal offense of our own. So how should we treat him? Surely the answer to that question is to treat him with love and respect, to treat him with patience and understanding. This does not mean backing away from the vital issues. We need to love him enough to tell him and be aware of this, that we may be the only ones who do tell him that if he continues on this present course of self-destruction, he will not enter the kingdom of God. He needs to know that. In one way or another, he needs to know it. The scriptures are clear on that. Neither he nor we should be deceived. He must put away his sin. He must flee to the Lord Jesus Christ and seek refuge in Him. He needs to know what we ourselves have learned, that Christ is able to save and save to the uttermost. That is, He's able to save completely all who come unto God by Him. and that the one who comes to the Lord Jesus Christ, he will by no means cast out. Again, what a marvelous gospel we have. If we know anything at all of the riches of God's grace to us in Christ, that he's called us out of darkness into his marvelous light, it ought to go a long way in humbling us before others and seeking, by the grace of God, again, to be better witnesses, that we might give them every encouragement, that they might not only put away their sin, but that they might come to Christ, that they might commit themselves to Christ and be wholly devoted to Him. So here is the third principle. Let's treat the homosexual with love and respect, with patience and understanding. If that's how we would seek to treat anybody, then it's how we need to treat the homosexual as well. Then I want to come to a fourth principle. Fourth principle of ministry. The homosexual who expresses a conviction of sin and wants to commit his life to Christ is clearly in need of caring discipleship, and probably even more than many other people. Why? because of the confusion and conflicting opinions about homosexuality which are so rampant in our day. He will be told by influential voices of the homosexual community and possibly by some of his friends that he can be a Christian and still continue his homosexual lifestyle. Now, not all his friends will say that. Some of his homosexual friends will tell him, Christianity, you don't want anything to do with Christians. We're worlds apart. They don't want anything to do with you. They will never accept you. Stay right away from them. The best advice I can give you is to stay away from Christians. That's what some of them will say. But others will say, oh, it's okay if you become a Christian and you can still continue your homosexual lifestyle. The two go together nicely. Lots of people are doing it. It'll work for you too. So you can see the kinds of problems that homosexuals who seek to become Christians are having to face. It would be most helpful, therefore, if the homosexual could connect with a support group of ex-homosexual Christians who are prepared to be there for one another and to be there for him as well. A regular Bible study consisting of heterosexuals solely might still be of some help, certainly. but it might be of more limited help. And even there, only if they are prepared to empathize, spend extra time with him, and direct him to the kind of literature that he really needs to read. I've provided what I am persuaded is the most helpful bibliography at the end of this paper, and I've included it as page two to your handout. We can go over that later. I will simply ask you to look at it carefully. My recommendation really is for churches to purchase some or all of these books for their library and so make them available for anyone who is interested in reading them. As I say, we can go over the books that are listed there later. Perhaps a word of caution is in order here. We all have to do battle with sin, don't we? We all have to do battle with sin in our life, and particularly with besetting sins, as they're called, those nasty transgressions which steal our affections. And though we know they're wrong, we have trouble giving them up because we would still like secretly to pursue them. While we're not justified in giving into them ever, nor should we rationalize such behavior At the same time, we must not be too quick to condemn other people for their failures because we do not know what battle they have waged. We do not know what resistance they have offered in seeking to conquer that particular sin in their life. It was a rule of the Puritans always to be much harder on themselves in their pursuit of holiness than on others. And that surely is a good rule of thumb for us all. If a homosexual should come to us and confess the difficulty that he's having, or perhaps we see that he's going through a difficulty without his saying anything to us about it, we need to be very careful that we don't simply try to think that we know we understand everything about it because we don't. We don't know what he's going through. The biblical principle is we should always be harder on ourselves than we are on somebody else. And there we see the fourth principle. The homosexual who comes to Christ may require even more caring discipleship than others because of the confusion and conflicting opinions which are so rampant in our day. We may be sure that the world is not going to help the church in evangelism. The world is going to work against the church in all that we do. And this is an area where we see it in a very particular way. And then I want to give what I propose to be the fifth principle for ministry. But because of what I've seen in the past, I think this needs to be added as well. The homosexual who wishes for any reason to change his sexual orientation, and who wishes possibly as a means of doing so, or maybe even as a means of convincing himself that he has done so, someone who wants to get married to someone of the opposite sex, Homosexual who wants to marry someone of the opposite sex. He should be upfront and honest with that woman about his sexual history before proposing to her. This is something that they should talk over together and they should not commit to marriage unless they are both agreed under the fully disclosed circumstances to do so. I've known a few men who have not done this and the results have been disastrous. Utterly disastrous for both husband and wife. I have for many years insisted in all premarital counseling that both men and women share with their prospective spouse before marriage whatever secrets they may have. Whatever secrets they may have, they need to share them. Anything that might cause them any possible embarrassment or shame later on were to be discovered. If they've not done that and the secret is somehow later revealed, the relationship will then be Severely strained, overwhelmingly strained, both because of the secret itself and now because of the sense of betrayal in not being told about it. The person feels sinned against in two ways now. Not only have you done this, but you haven't told me. Homosexual orientation and behavior, if there's ever been any, if there's been any semblance of it, is clearly a very important part of one's life and sexual history. It should not be overlooked or discounted as trivial. I'm not suggesting that this information be divulged to a prospective employer or to any of the powers that be if one is running for political office, any more than he should have to reveal that he was once quick-tempered, or a gossip, or has had a penchant for chocolate. But marriage is different. Marriage is different, and it demands a higher level of transparency, especially with regard to sexual history. It must be acknowledged. Now, one may well seek pastoral advice in order to achieve this most effectively. How do I tell my intended, my history, what it is I have done, what it is I've experienced? Yeah, it may be that advice will be needed for that, but the general rule, the sooner the better, is best. The sooner the better. Let her know. And this brings us then to the final principle that I've listed here. The homosexual who wishes to change his sexual orientation or thinks he has and he wants to get married to someone of the opposite sex should be upfront and honest with that woman about his sexual history before proposing to her. Now, if I might just give a very brief word in conclusion, ministering to the homosexual was not something that we thought much about even 30 years ago. I don't know that it really crossed the minds of very many of us at all. But today, with the world changing more rapidly than we have seen it ever before, We have to prepare ourselves and we have to prepare our churches for it. Let us pray that in the coming generation the church will have as much or even more influence on the world as clearly in the last generation the world has had on the church. Now, let me stop there for a moment and ask if there are any questions or comments. I think it's good to encourage discussion. Let me reiterate, however, I am certainly no expert on this subject at all. It may well be that some here today have done more work on this or have more experience than I do on this, so I'm hoping that there might be a sharing. that there would be some who would be prepared to give some answers as well as to ask questions or give comments. But let me open it up first of all. Bert. Yeah, I think it's quite true to say that in terms of our approach to people, in terms of the principles of ministry, going back to that for a moment, there'd be great similarities. In fact, I would say going beyond the whole sexual orientation thing, how we approach people anyway. how we approach anybody with the gospel and seek to encourage in the things of Christ. I think that's very true. The reason I've wanted to focus in on the homosexual is because I think there are peculiar issues that the homosexual has to deal with, and I don't think those issues necessarily blend with everything else. But, yeah. No, the point you make is quite right. Peter? i'm thinking here that we have to be understanding in what way can we minister to those who are homosexuals and not using it as a special ministry because the ministry is still the same it's the gospel and it's the need to understand sin and the consequence into a homosexual community with the idea of changing them to become heterosexual again or straight people again, we've already lost it. That result comes from salvation and you can address that as a problem now that they have an absolute rulebook in which to be able to measure their style of life, which is the Ten Commandments, right? So you said also that the homosexual community is a hate bond for Christianity. That's true. And so we have to be aware of that, that we don't become quickly eager to see results if we attack the problem of homosexuality, which is again rampant and growing rapidly as being now an accepted norm and also one that we have to really admire almost with the praise that they show and so forth and on and on we go with it. But going back to this theme of ministering to the homosexual is one that we have to again go back to the basic That's true. Except, Peter, I would say this. Whenever we attempt to speak to anyone We need to know something about them. We need to know where they're coming from, what they're dealing with, and so on. We can't just close our eyes and start preaching the gospel. We have to be sensitive to the people. And that was really the idea behind the title, Ministering to the Homosexual, realizing that we need to know and respond to something in this person. How do we communicate the gospel in a way that might be most effective for him? What I was trying to say is that homosexuality is a choice. It's a life choice. It's a lifestyle. We're not born. Homosexuals are not born homosexual. God wired his man and woman creation. Well, we are born in sin. I think we all need to recognize that we're all born in sin. And homosexuality, there may be a propensity for homosexuality in some men. I don't think we have to deny that and think that we're denying scripture to say that. We are born in sin. We all have to deal with sin. And whether for some person it's homosexuality he has to deal with, or a bad temper for somebody else, we all have to deal with the sin in our life. Lucas. Sexual orientation. Well, really all I'm talking about is going from being homosexual to a heterosexual. I'm not attempting to get further into anything, you know, having an attraction for men or having an attraction for women. And there are people who change. More and more literature is coming out on that all the time. And I think it's come to a point where, as with Dr. Spitzer, we just have to recognize the fact that this is whatever our theories may be, the fact is people are changing. But the point I made is that I don't believe we have to require that someone change sexual orientation. It's the behavior that Scripture condemns. Now, I'm not just talking about open behavior, what the person does on the outside. Clearly, we have to attack the sins of the heart as well. It's both sides. It's wherever we find sin in our life, we have to oppose it. But, you know, you take an alcoholic, someone who is addicted to drink, he may be an alcoholic all his life. He may stop drinking in order to oppose that that sin that he has in his life and deal with that addiction, but he will be, you know, an alcoholic all his life. And it may be for homosexuals that it will be the same way, but they seek, not in their own strength, but with the Holy Spirit to fight against this and by the grace of God to overcome this sin. And I think we have to admire that. John? I just want to pick up on that last comment that you made. I wonder when you read 1 Corinthians 6, though, and Paul says very clearly, it's such words. I mean, how we define our terms is always so important. And I wonder whether it's proper, and I know it's become very popular in our culture, And they would stand up there and say, hi, I'm Bob. I'm an alcoholic. And this is my 30 year anniversary, so I haven't drank excessively in 30 years, or whatever the case might be. I'm wondering whether it's accurate, according to scripture, to still say I'm an alcoholic. Or whether it's proper to say, I'm redeemed in Christ, I'm made new in Christ. And I wonder whether the 1 Corinthians 6 passage, whether it's addiction to alcohol or whether it's a homosexual behavior, whether it's addressing that. I think it is in that I'm still a sinner. I may be a sinner saved by grace, but I'm still a sinner and I still have to battle with sin in my life. I'm as I read that I see it as referring to the practice and people who have determined that they will no longer Continue in that practice that we don't actually know with them has their sexual orientation changed or not But the point is they don't continue in the practice and it seems to me that that is the focus here with what Pastor John just said, because I believe, an individual on a personal basis, I know someone who's an ex-drug addict, a heavy ex-drug addict. And he says, the minute I say I'm not a drug addict, it's way too soon for me to fall back into that. He says, so as far as I'm concerned, I'm a drug addict for life. I'm a rehabilitated drug addict is what he I think that's a good point, and that's why I believe also we need to begin always, I'm the chief of sinners. Once we're no longer convinced of that, we're on a wrong path. We have to be able to see and appreciate and acknowledge openly, I am the chief of sinners. And I can present plenty of evidence to show that that is the case. So no lacking evidence, it's there. But again, it's an attitude thing, isn't it? Scripture says we're to prefer others to ourselves. And again, the idea of the Puritans, we're always to be harder on ourselves than we are on them. You were washed, but you were sanctified. You were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. It's the justification that Paul is talking about here. Because of the work of Christ in our hearts, we are justified. That doesn't mean, as human beings, we're not sinners anymore. That doesn't mean we don't have a propensity for those sins. So ultimately, as human beings, we are still, like you said, sinners, homosexuals, alcoholics, But it does say sanctified too. So with justification comes sanctification. We need to see evidence in somebody's life that he's seeking to be something else. I'm saying preferably to change sexual orientation. The only thing is I don't know that we can insist on that for someone confessing faith in Christ. What we can insist on is that he fight against his homosexuality. Not every homosexual, even who becomes a Christian, becomes heterosexual. Some do. Not all do. But it's the sin of homosexuality that he needs to oppose for the rest of his life. I guess what I'm getting at is, isn't even the desire Yes. Yes. Yes. Needs to fight against it. Yeah. Needs to fight against it. How do Christian parents deal with that within the context of their own family? It seems to me there are two extremes. You either disown the child and say, well, I'm not going to do it with you. Or you go the other extreme, and you accept it, and you even welcome his partner into your home, and so on, for family gatherings. That is such a good question. That is a fantastically good question. But before I attempt to answer it, I wonder if there's anyone here who perhaps has had more experience with that situation than I have. I would love to hear from you. Certainly, it's along the same lines, isn't it? But is there anyone who would care to answer? Go ahead. where you're not caving into it and allowing it, and you're not outright condemning it with no hope of relating to that person. So I think what you've said today is the route that we would take whether it's somebody in our family or outside of it. You know, I find with children, we often have several difficult episodes where we have to confront them and talk to them about certain issues. It may not be this issue, it may be several others. But, you know, where children are bent on going a certain way, They're also bent on not listening to us. They get to a certain age where we may not even be the best one to talk to them because they may want to go the opposite way from what we say. But nevertheless, we... to speak to them, to draw them on side and to tell them what it is we believe they need to hear and to think about. But other than saying that in the context of love, I think you can say almost anything to your children, but they have to see and experience that it's in the context of love. That you're not rejecting them, but you want them to see and understand the truth. and that they need to be confronted by the truth. And it's the truth that sets people free. And I think that's the very thing. And sometimes I think parents need to be careful that they don't worry too much, because it's not always as they think it to be. I'm thinking of one particular case where there was a Christian family. I knew them reasonably well, though they were not in our church. And they had several children, and one of the young boys growing up was very effeminate in his ways. Now, he didn't declare himself a homosexual, but he was clearly very effeminate. And he liked doing certain things that girls like to do more than any of his siblings or anybody else they knew. And the parents were very worried about this. They were very concerned. They thought this was going in an altogether wrong direction. And it's not that they didn't talk to him and try to encourage him and so on and pray for him. But what I find interesting, that today, now that that young boy has grown up, he's one of the godliest men I know. The Lord has obviously done a wonderful work in him that none of us ever imagined. We, even when he was a young boy, had pretty well written him off. But the Lord clearly hadn't written him off. And that's just one of those things that I have to remind myself of every once in a while. Sometimes as parents, we don't know as much as we think we do. for families to deal with because it's something that we're naturally, as Cornyn mentioned, we have a, for most people who are heterosexual, they have a natural force to it that they're opposed to, physically opposed to. I think one of the hardest things And I think that's our tendency is to come with an air of pride where we say, oh yeah, you're going down the wrong path, you need to be corrected. Whereas, like you said, the common chief sinners, and that's one way of saying it, but having that meekness where you can come alongside them and say, Yeah, that's right. I remember preaching in a church one time, rather large church, and all the pews came down like this to the front. So I was at the lowest point when I was preaching, and I looked up to the people, and I thought, you know, that's kind of an encouragement. Every minister needs to remember, look up, don't look down. And when we talked to people as well, the same kind of thing. should always know that it's the senior addressing not. If it helps you in dealing with people, I think that that's good. It was C.S. Lewis said, you know, you hate the sin, but you love the sinner. I'm not so sure that biblically they're altogether divided. It seems to me when I read scripture, sin and sinner are equated, that there is a unity there, that there is no natural bond to break. So I'm appreciating what you're saying, and to some degree, I would echo that. I think we need to be careful, certainly in approaching someone who's dealing with this or any sin, you know, how we deal with it. But there's a certain sense in which we can't, as sinners, run from this. It is our sin. We need to deal with it. So in other words, if it's a young child, let's say it's a child that's 12, 13 years old and is showing a propensity for homosexual behavior, whatever that may be in your child, as a parent at that point, you want to try to correct that behavior in your child. Which brings up another point too, and I think it's good to point that out the longer we wait to deal with something the harder it gets Because the problems don't lessen They don't get smaller, they get bigger. And so, yeah, when we see signs, when we see evidence, something going awry, then we need to address it, yeah. The time has come, I would like very briefly to speak about the recommended reading list that you have there. There are only six books on this list, but I've deliberately chosen these because of what they are and who wrote them. I must confess there are a couple of books on this list I haven't read. Well, why would you put recommended reading, you know, a couple of books you haven't read? Well, there's a reason for it. The second one that you see down, the book Openness Unhindered by Rosaria Butterfield, came out a year ago. I haven't had an opportunity to read it yet, but I talked to a number of people. They said, oh, you have to include that one. Whatever you do, you have to include that one because it's actually even more relevant to the topic of what you're dealing with than the first one. So I have included, having read the first one and appreciated it so much, I've dared to include the second one. And the other book here that I haven't actually read, Speaking of Homosexuality by Joe Dallas, I haven't read it because it was published only in October. Haven't had the book yet. But over the years I've read so much literature, a number of books by Joe Dallas, which has been so helpful. Most of where I am and where I've come in terms of dealing with this whole subject, I've learned really from Joe Dallas and his opening up the scriptures and attempting to deal pastorally and lovingly with this whole issue. And so I, after reading so much of him, I just knew that this would also be a good book, so I put it on. I have other books on my shelves. I've decided not to put those on because of various reasons, but by all accounts, these are the best, and I'm happy to recommend them. And two of those are on the book table. The first one comes Okay, so if you want to get one of these books, they are on the table. Feel free to pick one up today. There is a pricing policy, which I've never heard before. If you want to tell us, Pastor Koopman, again what the pricing policy is. Why doesn't Walmart do that? I think it's great. Brothers, our time has come, and I would like to call on one of our elders, Pete Pretorius, if he would kindly lead us in closing prayer. Would you do that? Thank you, Pete.