Good evening and welcome to this Bible Believers podcast and welcome to another talk or another exposition of God's Word. I'm David Macarth and it's my pleasure to be here to teach God's Word and God willing we'll have plenty of usable and useful encouraging chat from one another. as we seek to encourage one another in the things of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a Bible-believing Christian, and although I think that most of the people who come here and listen are also Bible-believing Christians, if there are any who don't believe, they're very, very welcome, and we would long to share with you what we know about Jesus Christ as our Lord and as our Savior, and how he can save you from your sin. Yesterday in the open air, there was a man who was probably slightly older than me, who came and said, God can't forgive my sins, he said, and I said, yes, he can. And he said, no, you don't know what my sins are. I said, well, God knows what your sins are, and there's no sin that God won't forgive except the sin of unbelief. Now, I don't know what sins that man had committed that he thought that were unforgivable, but God does know that. And well, if you want to listen to the conversation, it's on the recording that I uploaded yesterday on Kidderminster Halloween, which is here on YouTube, and it's also on Sermon Audio. Margaret Kerr, good evening and good evening solely. Deo gloria. Now I have heard news in the last day or so that my efforts to take my legal case forwards with the European Court of Human Rights, remember that five years ago I lost my job with the Department for Work and Pensions here in the United Kingdom, that my legal case has not been permitted to go forward. So that is the end of my legal case. I consider that I have lost humanly speaking, but not spiritually. It was the right fight, it was the right cause. I refused to use transgender pronouns, and even if the law, it seems, doesn't back that up, I have a clear conscience before God. I'll need to do a short but more detailed... a video on the subject of my legal case. I was extremely well represented by the Christian Legal Center and Christian Concern also looked after my case. I continue to commend them to you because they have a lot of cases which are extraordinarily important to the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, if something becomes legal or illegal in one of our countries, it very often becomes legal or illegal in another country. And case law is often taken from other countries these days during legal hearings. and during considerations of legislation. So please look up some of the Christian Concern and Christian Legal Center legal cases, continue to pray for those, and by God's grace we'll go forward. Now I I was speaking in the open air yesterday here in Kidderminster with freedom and liberty to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, but I wouldn't have that freedom but for the work of the Christian Legal Center, and they have won case after case for Christian preachers in this country who've been arrested, and they've been represented by the Christian Legal Center, and the Christian Legal Center has won case after case. So I have freedom to speak because Christian lawyers stood up for Christian preachers. So I still continue to encourage you and to recommend the work of the Christian Legal Center and Christian Concern to you. Lan John, welcome. Bernadette, welcome. Marcus, welcome. Marilee, welcome. And Marilee, welcome. Marilee, welcome. And Marcus, welcome. But that's all the same persons, just several comments. But the Lord bless you and welcome to this study. Are there going to be changes in this channel? Because now that my legal case is over, that takes a fair amount of weight off me. It takes a fair amount of effort, which can now go into other things. And I'm very thankful for that, that I can get on with doing this teaching work, which God has given me to do for his glory, I pray. Good evening, Sonia, and welcome. Good evening, Jason. And so the title of this, The study is, should we dispense with dispensationalism? That's a bit corny, but essentially dispensationalism is a very prevalent doctrinal system. It certainly isn't believed by every Christian. You don't have to be a dispensationalist in order to be a Christian. Nobody's saved because they're a dispensationalist, and nobody's lost because they're not a dispensationalist. But many Christians hold to dispensationalism, which is a system of theology which teaches certain things. I remember when I was a young Christian in the 1980s, speaking to a missionary about dispensationalism, saying how terrible I thought it was. He got really upset and he said, do you realize you're talking about most of the Christians in the United States today? And I think he was absolutely right that there are many dispensationalist Christians. Some of you might be dispensationalists, and I may lose friends over this talk. But as I said, if you're a brother or sister in Christ, then our duty is to love you in the Lord Jesus Christ and for his sake, and to avoid unnecessary fallouts. But I do have things to say about dispensationalism, which I believe are important. Back in the 1980s, much of evangelicalism in the United States consisted of Christians in dispensational churches. Certainly in this country, many evangelicals I knew held to dispensational theology and eschatology, that's their doctrines of the end things. and particularly in the Plymouth Brethren, of whom there are still many many Brethren Assemblers in the United Kingdom, although like all the churches they've fallen on small things, the day of small things, when churches are declining and assemblers are declining, and we're not seeing in great measure people coming into the church of God. Not yet, not till the revival comes, which we trust will come. Now, dispensationalism as a system really began in the 1830s, and I'll talk about that more during the course of this talk, but it grew like wildfire and was spread by the teaching of J.N. Darby and by the teaching of the Schofield Reference Bible and also by a man called Ryrie. I'm not going to go into the history in detail. There's lots of videos on YouTube which deal about the history of dispensationalism, but I'm going to talk about the theological things to look out for and things which I think are concerning. The alternative to dispensationalism is said to be covenant theology. That's basically believing in justification by faith. Dispensationalists believe in justification by faith for New Testament saints. But one of the problems is this. An allegation against dispensationalists is that they over-literalize Old Testament prophecies relating to Israel. Well, I am guilty of that myself in their eyes, because I do believe God has a further plan for Israel, and I do believe that Russia is going to invade Israel and be defeated on the mountains of Israel. The alternative to that is to spiritualize everything. In my understanding, it has the effect of making prophecy more or less meaningless. So there's room for discernment, there's room for teaching, there's room for study, and I would say I think the truth lies somewhere in between. But in terms of eschatology, I'll probably find more in common with dispensationalists than with those who have been said to have what's called replacement theology, where God has no further plan for the Jews and no further plan for the nation of Israel. And of course if we think that then we're going to spiritualize Ezekiel 38 and 39, the Gog and Magog wars, and we're going to spiritualize Isaiah 17, where God is going to destroy, or where Damascus is going to be turned into a heap of ruins, which has never happened historically. These are events that never happened historically. If they're just spiritual events, it's meaningless. But even in our own time, and right now, we're seeing a huge conflict beginning in the Middle East, and we're seeing Iran being drawn in and they, through their Houthi rebels in Yemen, have declared war on Israel. That's an escalation. We've seen Iran being drawn in, we've seen Turkey threatening to declare war on Israel, and we're seeing Russia being brought into the conflict. Now this just sounds so much like Ezekiel 38 and we'll have to wait and see, but these To say that this is spiritual and that what's going on in the Middle East right now has nothing to do with Bible prophecy. We can say, well, it's strange and it's a strange... There are no coincidences. God is sovereign over all things. It seems to me that the idea that there are no further prophecies relating to Israel is wrong. Unbiblical, let's say unbiblical first. we're starting to see the fulfillment of some of these prophecies. We'll have to wait and see, but I believe very much that God does have a further plan for Israel. So I believe that we need to keep our eyes on Israel and we need to keep our eyes on Jerusalem and see what's going on. we need to be ready for what's to come because there's going to be suffering ahead. There'll be nowhere that we can hide except in the Lord Jesus Christ. And do you know the Lord Jesus Christ? Because he's the place to be, in him, knowing him, trusting him, following him, being saved by his blood and by his death on the cross. Now, here in England, there's a feeling that radical Islam has taken control of our streets. And more and more people are genuinely alarmed. and the police seem to be powerless to stop things going on in our streets, which are a very grave concern to us, and there is a call for British people to do something about what's going on in our country, in our capital city, in London. I don't know where that will lead, except to say this, that If our country appears to be at the place where Islamists and Muslims seem to be able to do whatever they like, and they seem to be above the law, and nobody seems to be able to stop them, this is nothing other than a judgment of God against us as a nation. And he's judging us for abortion, he's judging us for same-sex marriage, he's judging us for transgender ideology and other such things. Most of all for forgetting him, for leaving his word, for abandoning his word, for forgetting him, for blaspheming his name, for turning aside to other gods. So what we see in our nation now and in our streets, which is a very great problem indeed, where we seem to no longer have control of our nation and where our nation seems to be taken over by people who do not love Britain at all, but who have an agenda to take over the country, then we have a very real problem and this is a judgment of God and would that people saw that because repentance is the only answer and it's the only way to see our country restored. But most importantly of all, it's the only way to find salvation and find the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. Things are going to get much worse. Things are going to get much worse. But let's get back to dispensationalism. Let's turn in our Bibles and read from Hebrews chapter 11 and we'll read verses 1 to 8. Hebrews chapter 11. Let us hear the Word of God. Through faith, we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. By faith, Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts, and by it he being dead yet speaketh. By faith, Enoch was translated that he should not see death, and was not found because God had translated him. For before his translation, he had this testimony that he pleased God. But without faith, it is impossible to please him. For he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. By faith, Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house, by the which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. By faith, Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed, and he went out not knowing whither he went. Amen. Father, we ask and pray that you would bless this ministry of your Word to each one of us, that you'd give us eyes to see, hearts to understand, and to believe what your Word teaches, Lord, and to discern between those things which come from you and those things which are from men's hearts and men's teaching, Lord, and not even asking that people accept what I'm saying because I'm saying it, Lord, but I ask that they would see it for themselves from the Word of God. I pray, Father, for a deeper understanding of the Scriptures and a greater understanding of who you are and your power and your majesty and your glory and your holiness, and also a better understanding of your salvation and the way that salvation works, Lord, and the grace that is involved in the salvation of all, Lord, and the mercy that comes to us through Jesus Christ in both the Old and the New Testaments. And so, Father, I ask that you forgive us for our sins. Thank you for the Lord Jesus Christ. Thank you that you sent him to be the saviour of the world, to take away our sins, to cleanse us in his blood. Thank you, Lord, that if we're trusting in Jesus Christ, we have the salvation of our souls. Father, we ask that we would love him more and more, and we ask that as the days get darker, and as we see your judgments begin to fall upon the nations, we ask that you would have mercy upon us, that we would remain faithful to the Lord Jesus, and if we're called upon to suffer for his sake, that we would do so faithfully, Lord, by your grace and by the strength that you give us, and not in our own strength. We ask that you would provide for us and give us our daily bread. We ask that you'd have mercy upon us. We pray for your people in Gaza, Lord, that you would have mercy upon them. Christians who may not be prioritised in the daily rations, Lord, or in other things, Lord. And we pray for them, Lord, that you would provide for them and have mercy upon them. We pray for your people in Israel, Lord, and we pray that they will be salt and light and shine as bright lights in that country which has yet to awaken and to see her Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ, in such days as this. Father, we know that Israel has been established by You, and we know that she cannot be shaken. But if we are living in days when soon the armies of Russia will be defeated on the mountains of Israel, if those are these days, Father, I pray that Your people would see it, And I pray, Lord, that they would also search the Scriptures to understand the rest of Bible prophecy, that we might be informed, and that we might be wise, and that we might be looking up, and that we might be peaceful, because we are called to peace, and that we might see the salvation that comes from God. These things we ask and pray in Jesus' precious and holy name. Amen. Amen. One of the chilling things is I watched an interview with the leader of Hamas just before coming here, and he was saying that given the opportunity, they would repeat the slaughter of innocent Israelis again and again and again, that they would keep doing that, that they wouldn't stop. That's why Israel has to fight them. That's why Israel cannot leave a job half done or unfinished. It's a no-win situation. And the thought of that is chilling. So, Hamas certainly are not the victims. They are the perpetrators. And we must say that even though we have these massive marches in our streets telling us that we should support Hamas, I'm not going to support Hamas. They're murderers. Back to dispensationalism. We've got Hebrews 11 verses 1 to 8. Now, there are three theological issues I want to take up here with dispensationalism, that system of theology. The first is that dispensationalism, I understand, teaches a different way of salvation in the Old Testament for the Old Testament saints than for the New Testament saints. Again, I'm not going to give a detailed theological exposition or a historical account, because there are plenty of others who are more capable of doing that than me. But this is of great concern. The second thing I'm going to look at is their view of the cross and the economy of salvation. I'm calling it the economy of salvation. And the third is their view of the pre-tribulation rapture. Now, most of these talks on dispensationalism you find on YouTube, for example, spend their time or focus their time all on the pre-tribulation rapture. But there are other issues as well that dispensationalists believe, which I think need to be challenged. The first is this. The dispensationalist system teaches that in the Old Testament, and Old Testament saints were saved by keeping the Old Covenant, and New Testament Christians are saved by keeping the New Covenant. Now that immediately presents us with two different ways of salvation, one in the Old Testament by keeping the law, and one in the New Testament by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone. I don't know if Derek Prince, who I count to be a theological lightweight, I don't know if Derek Prince is a dispensationalist, but he certainly teaches that there's a different way of salvation in the Old Testament. Salvation by work, salvation by keeping the law. That's why we read Hebrews chapter 11 here, because in the New Testament, we are clearly saved by grace alone, through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone. But so were the Old Testament saints. No one was saved by keeping the law of God. Nobody was saved by keeping the commandments of Moses. Not one person was ever saved by keeping the commandments. And yet this system teaches that the old covenant, the covenant of works, was what saved people. The testimony of Scripture is that by the works of the Lord, no one can be saved. Here in Hebrews chapter 11, we have Abel mentioned. We could have mentioned Adam and Eve in the Proto-Evangel, but we have Abel here. Abel was saved because he sacrificed animals, whereas Cain sacrificed plants or grain to God. Abel's sacrifice was accepted because it was a blood sacrifice pointing forward to pointing forward to the Lord Jesus Christ. So in verse four there we read, by faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous. And then we have Enoch, and Enoch walked with God, but by faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death. And we read before his translation, he had this testimony that he pleased God, How do we please God? By looking ahead to the coming saviour, not by our works, not by keeping the law. None of us have done that. Then there's Abraham, and if we look at Abraham here by faith, Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive an inheritance, obeyed, and so on. But Abraham had faith. In Romans chapter four and verse three, we read, let me just turn to it, Romans four and verse three, Suddenly I'm all fingers and thumbs. Romans chapter 4 and verse 3. So that reads, For what saith the scripture, Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. So he was saved by faith, not by works, not by keeping the commands. And he was justified by faith, Noah as well, going into the ark and going through the flood. He was a preacher of righteousness. Now, the Westminster Shorter Catechism asks the question, how were the Old Testament saints saved? And the answer is that by believing in the one that was to come. In other words, everybody in the Old Testament who was saved was saved by grace, was saved by faith, and was saved by looking ahead to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. That's all I'm going to say about that at the moment, because that's a big subject and one that requires or could warrant further study. In the Old Testament, the saints were saved by grace. David was saved by grace. Saul was lost. Both of them sinned, but David was saved and Saul was lost. In Romans, Paul says concerning Esau and Jacob, God says, Esau have I hated, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated, and that this was a sign to Jacob and Esau before they were born. It was a sovereign assignation of Almighty God. So salvation is by faith, it's by the grace of God, and it's not through keeping the law. So dispensationalism has a wrong view of how the Old Testament saints were saved, and this is a problem. It really is a problem. Now, as time goes on, I think I'm going to Let's see what we've got here. Let's talk about dispensationalists as well, because as I said I've known many dispensationalists, and when I became a Christian most of the first Christians I met were dispensationalists, so the first system of theology I was taught was dispensationalism. And these dispensationalist Christians, let's Dispensationalism can have a reputation for being glum and gloomy and pessimistic and indifferent, and it can have a reputation for being basically an excuse for doing nothing. But the Christians I met who were dispensationalists, they were on fire for God. They were lovely Christians. They loved the Lord Jesus Christ and they showed it and they spoke about the Lord Jesus Christ with great joy and delight. When did you last go to a meeting where all the Christians spoke about the Lord Jesus Christ with great delight? Well, the dispensational believing Christians that I knew when I first became a Christian, they would do that. They would talk about the Lord Jesus. They would talk about what he'd done for them, how he'd saved them, his goodness to them. They would talk about what he'd done for them in the past and what they were doing for him now. They were on fire for God. That's highly commendable, highly commendable. You can be a Christian and love the Lord Jesus Christ and be a dispensationalist. There's a fervency of spirit. And if some criticize dispensationalists for not being missionary-minded, these were, they were very missionary-minded. And indeed the most, when I was a young Christian, the missionaries I met were generally, I think, dispensationalists who really loved the Lord and really had a burden for the lost and went forward to serve the Lord. But even so, the problem with dispensationalism, as I see it, is that it's a system of theology that was worked out since the 1830s, which inflicts an interpretation on scripture. So that instead of coming to the scriptures and getting our doctrine from the scriptures, we decide on a doctrine, we put it in our system, and when we come to the scriptures, we see it. And we say that is the only way to interpret the scripture. And I found an attitude in some brethren circles of this, Their argument was that JN Darby and their leaders in the Brethren movement had accurately interpreted the scriptures, and because they had accurately and finally interpreted all of the scriptures, there was no room for any disagreement amongst Christians. Our duty was just to comply, just to come on board, and just to believe what we were told to believe about the Scriptures. If they had a view on women and hats, we had to believe that. If they had a view on whether there should be a full-time Christian ministry, we had to believe that because they had interpreted the Bible accurately and there is no room for disagreement. This is a wrong way to approach the Scriptures. There are certain doctrines in the Christian faith that are non-negotiable. Gypsy Boy, is John MacArthur dispensational? I think he is. I'm told that he believes in a pre-tribulation rapture and that he's pre-millennial. That does tend to go very much with dispensationalism. He would be an unusual dispensationalist because I believe he's also a Calvinist. It's difficult to be a Calvinist and a dispensationalist at the same time. Most dispensationalists would be Arminian in their theology. But the Bible hasn't been interpreted that. Another attitude is to say simply that you ask them what denomination they are, and they say, we're not a denomination, we're a group of assemblies. And just by using the words, we're not a denomination, they confirm the absolute fact that they are a denomination, whether they are willing to say that they are or not is another question, but they are a denomination, whether they think so or not. But leaving that aside, the problem here is that this is a system of theology which everybody has to agree with, which everybody has to find in the scriptures. And this is an infliction on scripture. We are to read the scriptures for ourselves, and we are to interpret the scriptures, praying for the help of the Holy Spirit. And also, we need the help of books and students to study the scriptures and the advice of godly Christian men. This is no approach to the scriptures. We've got it right. Everybody else is wrong. Everybody else has to believe what we believe. Now, dispensationalism, in my experience, or people I spoke to tended to do that. And I think that's a problem because it stops us from thinking for ourselves as Christians. And when we are wrong, we're very wrong. But every one of us is wrong about something, and every denomination is wrong about, I'm sure, many things. Let's move on to the second question. The second question is the problem that I think is the biggest problem with dispensationalism. The idea that Old Testament saints were saved by a different mechanism to New Testament saints is a very big problem. It's a very big theological problem because it impacts on the gospel. But the second problem is even bigger, and that is that they see the cross or Jesus dying on the cross as plan B, so to speak. And so I want to just read from several verses, Acts chapter 17 and verse 3. verses two and three. And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three Sabbath days reasoned with them out of the Scriptures, opening and alleging that Christ must needs have suffered and risen again from the dead, and that this Jesus whom I preach unto you is Christ. So Paul is reasoning from the Old Testament that Christ must needs have suffered and risen again from the dead. It's not plan B. This is what had to happen. This is God's purpose. Luke 24 verses 25 and 26, and this has to do with the events on the Emmaus road. Luke 24 verses 25 and 26 we read, and this is the Lord Jesus Christ, then he said unto them, O fools and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken. Ought not Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into his glory? Ought not Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into his glory? In other words, it wasn't plan B. This was God's plan that Jesus would come into the world and that he would die for sinners. 1 Peter 1 verse 20 reads, who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you. So Christ coming into the world to be the savior of the world was foreordained before the foundation of the world by almighty God. And so it wasn't plan B, this was God's plan from before the foundation of the world. And then Ephesians chapter four and verse one, I'm sure there are many other verses that we could produce, but this is where we'll leave it with this. Ephesians 1 and verse 4, According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. So it wasn't an afterthought, it wasn't plan B that Jesus went to the cross, and it wasn't plan B that we should be saved. Dispensationalism tends to teach that God's first plan was that Jesus should go to the Jews, and that the Jews would accept him, and that when the Jews accepted him, then the Jewish nation would be established as the kingdom of God. But when the Jews rejected him, and remember in John's Gospel chapter 1 it says he came to his own and his own received him not, then it became necessary for him to die upon the cross. And this is an awful doctrine. It makes the cross God's plan B. It has the effect of making God seem like a little God who is powerless, who is at the sway of events and of the strength of men and the attitudes and the desires of men, and a God who has to actually plan things as he goes along. This is extreme Arminian theology because it puts man on the throne and puts man in charge. God, as I say, is a weak God. It was one of the great recent theologians who said that if God is not sovereign, he is not God at all. And I think theologically that's absolutely true. God must be sovereign. And that means the only way that the Lord Jesus Christ could go to the cross is if that was God's plan and God's only plan. And of course, I think most of us would agree with that. But dispensationalism teaches otherwise. It teaches that the Lord Jesus only chose to go to the cross after the Jews rejected him. Up until that point, he had hoped that the Jews would believe in him, but they rejected him, so now he must go to the cross. God is sovereign over time. He's sovereign over men. He's sovereign over our salvation. And it was His will, planned before eternity, that the Lord Jesus Christ, His Son, would come into the world to be the Savior of the world. No plan B. And of course, we find that this has been His plan all along. What about Psalm 22? How would you explain Psalm 22 or Isaiah 53 if you believe that it was only God's second best for the Lord Jesus to die upon the cross Isaiah 42 verse 6 also, if I turn to Isaiah 42 and verse 6, we read, if I find the book of Isaiah, Isaiah 42 verse 6, Psalm 42, verse 6, where we read, This is speaking about the servant of God, it's speaking about the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord Jesus is the light of the Gentiles. God has said long before that the gospel was going to be to the Gentiles as well as to the Jews, so we weren't an afterthought or a plan B. It was God's will that the Lord Jesus Christ should die for sinners from every tribe and tongue and nation, that he should die, that he should go to that cross, that he should be put to death, that he should be resurrected, and that as a result of this the gospel should go to the very ends of the earth. Jason, you're a Reformed Baptist in theology, so am I. And I think that is a good doctrinal position to hold. We may not all hold that, but I think that's a good doctrinal position to hold. So the idea that the Lord Jesus came into the world to win the Jews, and when they rejected him, then he decided to go to the cross is absolutely untenable, in my opinion, because of the fact that Jesus Christ is sovereign and he's Lord. He came into the world to die on the cross, and that was the only plan that God had, and that was the plan that was fulfilled before the foundation of the world that was determined. So I think that dispensationalism belittles the Lord Jesus Christ, it belittles God, it belittles the gospel, It's a form of extreme Arminianism to argue that that's what went on, that's what I think. And I'm very, very sad about that, that dispensationalism therefore proves to be remarkably shallow in its doctrine of God and its soteriology, its doctrine of salvation. That doesn't mean that those who are dispensationalists aren't Christians. I've met many who were, as I said, fervent Christians, but we should look for that deepest doctrine. If we have a system that's been made up and inflicted on the scriptures, then we have a problem. And I believe dispensationalism has that problem. Well, let's just go now to the third doctrinal point about dispensationalism, and that is the pre-tribulation rapture. Let's look at 1 Thessalonians 4, verses 16 and 17. And I think to most of us, these are very familiar words. about the rapture, proving that there is a rapture. And it's not the only proof in scripture of a rapture, but 1 Thessalonians 4, verses 16 and 17, we read Paul's words. Yeah, I'm looking in the wrong book there. Here we are, 4 verses 16 and 17. Now that speaks of a rapture, but it also says, because what dispensationalism teaches is that there is a secret rapture of the saints. Don't get left behind, we used to sing in the 1980s. Life was filled with guns and war and everybody got trampled on the floor. Don't get left behind. The thing here is this, that the dispensationalism puts a seven-year period between the secret rapture and the return of the Lord Jesus Christ, and it says that the saints disappear, the Lord Jesus Christ comes for his saints when the secret rapture occurs, and seven years later he comes with his saints, and there's a seven-year gap. Now, even these verses in Thessalonians prove that wrong, because it tells us that the dead in Christ shall rise first. So the Lord is coming with his saints, and then we who remain will be caught up. So the rapture comes after the resurrection of the dead, in that respect, in these verses. And that clearly reverses the order of a secret rapture followed by the Lord coming with his saints. In Jude, it talks about the Lord coming with 10,000 of his saints. And in Revelation, we have the Lord coming on the white horse with the armies of heaven behind him. There's no suggestion in the scripture that this event is split, or that there are two returns of the Lord Jesus Christ, or that the Lord Jesus Christ comes secretly and then he comes openly. The Lord Jesus talks about his second coming, and he talks about his return, and it's an open return, it's a visible return. Every eye will see him, he'll come on the clouds of heaven, and then that's when the dead in Christ shall rise and come with him. That's the coming with his saints, and the coming for his saints is when we are caught up in the air to be with him and transformed in the twinkling of an eye. So the coming with his saints and the coming for his saints aren't two separate events, but they are the same event. They are the same event, coming with and coming for, the same event in Scripture. It's interesting isn't it that also another thing that dispensationalists tend to believe is that we are living in the lukewarm age. You remember the seven churches of Revelation and the seventh church is the church of Laodicea which is the lukewarm church. Well they say that the There are seven ages of the church age, and we're in the last age, the lukewarm age. So the church is lukewarm, and we expect a falling away, and we expect this and that and the other. And they use that to justify a lack of evangelism and a lack of us seeing fruit, even though the gospel is going forth to the ends of the earth. And there are great things and multitudes coming to know the Lord Jesus Christ in other countries, maybe not in our Western countries, but in other countries that we view things through the lens of what's happening in our own backyard. as if God was only working here and as if we were the only people that God has. But you see, there's nothing in the scripture to say that these are seven ages and we're living in the lukewarm age. That's another infliction on scripture. So the most commonly respected commonly discussed dispensational theology is the question of the pre-tribulation rapture. Now Lloyd-Jones has done a good treatment of this. I see somebody's mentioned Lloyd-Jones there in his talk on the 70th year of Daniel. Now I don't actually agree with Lloyd-Jones's treatment of the 70th year of Daniel. It's perfectly all right that you disagree with him and that he disagrees with you, but we should study these things. He does talk about the pre-tribulation rapture and he does explain how it came about, as others do, and this is how it came about. This doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture, the secret rapture of the saints, came from a conference held by Edward Irving, I believe in Glasgow, in 1830. Edward Irving's an interesting and complex character, but the forerunner of the Pentecostal movement. And there was a young woman in that conference who had an utterance, Lloyd-Jones says, or a prophecy, to the effect that there would be a pre-tribulation rapture. And this was taken to be from the Holy Spirit. And J.N. Darby, the founder of the Brethren, was there. And he accepted this as being from the Holy Spirit. And so it became taught by the Plymouth Brethren. And it was magnified very greatly by Schofield and Schofield's reference Bible. And spread like wildfire amongst churches, not just in the United Kingdom, but across the pond in the United States. But as Lloyd-Jones points out, there was absolutely no biblical authority for this utterance at all. Now we're straying into the cessationist thing, but you have the problem if somebody says something, you say it's from the Holy Spirit. Do you believe it? Do you reject it? Do you take it to the scriptures? Because I can't see a pre-tribulation rapture in the scriptures, and I know that many, many of us can't see a pre-tribulation rapture in the scriptures. As Lloyd-Jones points out, there was no biblical foundation to this doctrine whatsoever, but it was accepted as coming from God, so that's further revelation after the end of the book of Revelation, and spread like wildfire. This has become a staple for the dispensational movement. Now, I think it's really important we say this. Somebody said this, that why do so many people take the scriptures of Revelation chapter 4 verse 1, for example, and other scriptures, and they say, look, there's the rapture, and you look and you can't see it. And the reason that was suggested, and I agree with this, is that people who have had an inflicted system of theology put upon them, having now got that system received and accepted, will now go to the scriptures and unconsciously or without realizing it, see the scriptures through that lens. So they've been told that Revelation 4.1 speaks of the rapture. When they read it, they say, that's the rapture. You say, well, I don't see a rapture in that. They'll say, well, it ties in with the other scriptures. Lloyd-Jones points out there is no biblical foundation whatsoever for a pre-tribulation rapture. It was an extra biblical utterance by a young woman in a conference held in Glasgow by Edward Irving. It was taken up by J N Darby and others and by Ryrie and by Schofield and it spread like wildfire. Now, in the 1970s, Hal Lindsay published his book, The Late Great Planet Earth, and people were expecting to be raptured out very soon, and it didn't happen. Then he updated it with the 1980s countdown to Armageddon. More recently we've had the Left Behind series which talks about people being left behind and becoming Christians and what they do during the reign of Antichrist. This is fiction. I think the thing to be said is this. Those who say that God will rapture us at the start of the tribulation, because he doesn't want us to go through the tribulation, because there are no tribulation saints in Revelation, then go on to say, but there'll be great multitudes of saints, because lots of people will become Christians during the period of the tribulation. And so they contradict themselves, because first of all they say God wouldn't want Christians in the tribulation, and second then they say there's multitudes. They say God isn't going to save, that God is only going to judge, but then they say there's massive salvation of people during the tribulation, and it seems to be a conflict in terms. They say that revelation only applies to Israel and to the unbelieving world, but not to Christians. But then they will tell you don't get left behind, but then they'll publish a series like the Left Behind series, which tells you all about the adventures of Christians who've been left behind. There's a contradiction there. So there's no secret coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. There is a rapture at the end of the age. There is no secret coming. There's no secret rapture. It's not taught in the scriptures. It was a prophecy. And I would say it clearly was a false prophecy adding to scripture. But people then get the bit between their teeth and they come up with all of these justifications and reasons for what they're doing. There's no secret coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. The coming of the Lord Jesus is visible. It's a revelation of the Lord Jesus, a revealing of him on the clouds of heaven. He comes for his saints and with his saints, and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Those waiting for a pre-tribulation rapture may not be ready for what is to come. Many people I spoke to have said, I'm not going to be there because I'm going to be raptured out. God doesn't want us to suffer. It's funny how in the West, as Christians, we think God doesn't want us to suffer when so many of our brothers and sisters in Christ are suffering now. You think about the appalling suffering of Christians in Gaza at the moment, and the suffering of Christians in Israel too. But pray for them, because as I say, because they're Christians, they may not be given their portion, but the Lord can give them their portion, and look after them, even in difficult times. And may the Lord bless their witness as well. I don't see, no Christian I'm sure can be a member of Hamas. One of the things, yesterday I preached in the open air and some of you listened to the recording. What you can't find on the recording is that while I was there, a group of men in their 20s, I would say, went past dressed in Halloween fancy dress, blood covered shirts and things like that, fake blood, we hope. But one of the sad things was that one of them was dressed as a Hamas terrorist. How sick that is, how sick Halloween is, how sick Hamas is in its wickedness and its murderousness. and how sick it was that somebody would walk through the center of Kinnaminster thinking it was entertaining and funny to dress as a Hamas terrorist. I'm assuming he wasn't a Hamas terrorist. If he was, that would be trouble. But those who are waiting for a pre-tribulation rapture dispensationalists will be disappointed. And they may not be ready. This is my concern. Expecting to escape, they don't prepare. Expecting to escape, they have a shallow understanding of God's call to the Christian to take up his or her cross daily and follow the Lord Jesus Christ, to be willing to suffer for the sake of the Lord Jesus Christ. And indeed, many of us may well suffer and we may suffer martyrdom in days to come. If that's so, that's God's will for us. And we must accept that and recognize that God will keep us through no matter what. So we're justified by faith in Jesus Christ, but I'm saying that those who say God wouldn't want us to go through the tribulation. And one of the reasons that they say that is they say, well, during that seven-year period, it's only God's judgments, and God is only interested in dealing with, on the one hand, Israel, and on the other hand, judging the nations. But that's one reason why they can't understand what I'm saying. Because they think, why would God want us to be there when he's only judging? God is able to remember mercy in the midst of judgment. If there's going to be tribulation saints, then they will need encouraging, they will need teaching, they will need to grow in grace. God is able to keep us in the midst of his judgments and to make a distinction between his people and the people of the world. Think of the Israelites in the land of Goshen during the time of the plagues which came upon Egypt. The key thing is that we trust the Lord, that we don't just say, I'm getting out of here and therefore I don't need to think about it, but we trust, we make sure we're walking with the Lord. And if tomorrow Russia were defeated on the mountains of Israel, for example, we were not taken by surprise by that, that we were ready for that. So this is my summing up. Dispensationalism is an infliction on scripture. It's a doctrinal system that's been worked out and then inflicted on scripture. And we said three of the things which are inflicted on scripture, that the Old Testament saints were saved by a means other than faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, that the Lord Jesus Christ didn't come to die on the cross, but he had to die on the cross when his first plan didn't work out, and that there is a pre-tribulation rapture. As such, any system which is worked out and then inflicted on the scriptures is going to be doing harm to our understanding of the scriptures and our ability to read, comprehend and follow the scriptures. So we must reject dispensationalism on that ground. And dispensationalism is not just an infliction on scripture, it's wrong on scripture. It teaches error. And I've mentioned those three errors. And we should reject those errors. We need a greater understanding of the gospel. We need a greater understanding of salvation. We need a greater understanding of who God is, the sovereign Lord of heaven and earth, and all things are under his control. And yes, it was R.C. Sproul that said that we should that if God isn't sovereign, then he isn't God, which is absolutely true. And therefore, finally, dispensationalism should be put away in favour of faithful Bible exposition, that we should replace these doctrines with a better understanding, that we shouldn't be bound by the Schofield reference Bible or other reference Bibles associated with dispensationalism, which read into Scripture, we shouldn't be bound by the prophecy of a young woman in 1830, but that we should start with the Scriptures without presuppositions and read the Bible for ourselves and understand it. So dispensationalism, I submit to you, should be put away, should be dispensed with, which is what our title of this talk was. Now again, I love my dispensational brothers and sisters in Christ, and some of them love the Lord Jesus a lot more than I do, and they're an example to me, and I thank God for that. So we're not talking about two different religions, we're talking about problems within the church and yet there are many many dispensationalists out there still, but my prayer is that they would come to a better and deeper understanding of the scriptures and a better approach to the scriptures. Father I pray that you would open eyes and I pray Lord that you would show so many who love Jesus but have halted at this shallow exegesis of your word, show them the depths and the riches and the power and the might and the glory and the wonder of your salvation in a new and refreshing and powerful way, not bounded by the teachings of men inflicted upon the scriptures but reading out of the scriptures what you have said about your son and about his glory and about his work We rejoice, Father, to know that you are a sovereign God, that you reign over all things, that there isn't a single atom, there isn't a single particle in the whole universe that isn't under your sovereign command. Yet your interest is with us, and your mercies are towards us, and your salvation is towards us. And the Lord Jesus Christ came into this world to seek and to save that which was lost. He came to seek us, and he found us, and he bought us, and he purchased us. So Father we thank you for this and pray that we would be ready for whatever comes now that we have this war in the Middle East and now that we see our own streets seemingly taken over by Muslims Lord, seemingly snatched from us and we have no idea how to reclaim them Lord. We pray and ask that you would have mercy upon Christians and help us, Lord, to be salt and light in our generation, to speak the truth in love and to shine as bright lights for the gospel of Jesus Christ in this day and in this generation in which we live. And these things we ask and pray. I just prayed for that man yesterday, Lord, who said that I didn't know his sins, but God wouldn't forgive him for them. Lord, that he would come under conviction of his sins, that he would cry out to mercy and look to Jesus Christ for his salvation. And I still pray for this town of Kidderminster, Lord, that you pour out your Holy Spirit here and have mercy here. And Lord, just mentioning what I mentioned at the beginning, I pray for Christian lawyers and I pray for the Christian Legal Center and Christian Concern, that you continue to use them to maintain our freedom and liberty to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. Bless them and have mercy upon them, I pray. Thank you for them, Father. So Father, we commend ourselves to you now in Jesus' precious name. Amen. Amen. Well, thank you for listening. That's quite a lot. I produced this because a sister from the United States asked me if I would comment on dispensationalism, and it seemed like a good thing to speak on. I hope I haven't lost too many friends by speaking the way that I did, but it's my duty to speak and declare the scriptures as best I can, and knowing that not everybody will agree with me, but nevertheless it's for our benefit. I thank the Lord for that. Thank you, Jason, for that comment. Ian R., God has been pleased to deal with men at different times in various ways. Fresh revelations of himself and of his will have ushered in new modes of dealing with men, new dispensations. Well, Ian, I should have said about dispensationalism. Of course, dispensationalism is based on the idea, I think there are seven dispensations from the beginning of creation to the end of a premillennial millennium. I didn't go into that because I don't really understand it, I haven't had time to study it. We're in the gospel age, I think we'd all agree on that. The Lord Jesus Christ is returning very soon and I think we'd all agree on that as well. The importance of this for us Christians is that we thereby learn the true character of the calling wherewith we are called from on high and of the age in which our lot is cast. I agree with you entirely, Ian. The importance of our calling is to remain faithful to the Lord Jesus Christ, faithful in our witness, faithful in our testimony, faithful in our walk, and to occupy till he comes. and in the light of the age in which we're living, we don't have a right to a comfortable, middle-class, western, peaceful existence. If we've had that, that's a blessing from God, but if we become flabby Christians because we've had it so good for so long, then we are in trouble when it comes to the shaking. And as I've said, I think seeing all of these Muslims occupying the streets of our cities and us being able to do nothing about it, calling for the death of the Jews, and no doubt the Christians will follow that, by which I mean they were calling for the death of the Christians, that this is a judgment of God. It's a sign that God is now no longer giving us time to repent, but that now his judgments are coming. And this is a fearful thing. fearful thing. Who knows where it will lead? Who knows where it will end? And police don't seem to be able to manage it. And in a sense, one doesn't blame the police for that, because these are overwhelming numbers. And the politicians have a policy of allowing this to happen. But all of this is a judgment of God. You can go back to Deuteronomy 28, and I should do a series on Deuteronomy 28 on this, but this is one of the judgments that comes upon a nation that disobeys God, but it's fearful and it's worrying. Ian, well if you do not understand it, I would strongly suggest you study the matter before expounding on things you do not know. What is your suggestion that's not understood? I think that comment is aimed at me. That's okay, that's fine Ian. Thank you so much for taking your time to share Brother David, Jason and Brian. Police are awful with who they attack and who they ignore. Yes, again, the police have not taken a firm action yet on those calling for the death of Jews, which is shocking, but they have arrested, sometimes repeatedly, people who pray silently in their own heads outside abortion clinics. Either way, the murderers get off the hook, the abortionists and the supporters of Hamas. I don't like this idea that somehow God didn't see what was going to happen, and somehow God had contingencies, but he didn't see what was going to happen. This idea that God foreknows who's going to be saved, but he doesn't foreordain who's going to be saved. Clearly the teaching of Scripture is that God not only foreknows, but he foreordains. In that respect, Lorraine Boatnoe, who wrote a very capable book on predestination, says that nobody can argue against the following point, and that is whatever is foreseen is by definition also foreordained. And God foreordained of course that the Lord Jesus Christ would come and die upon the cross for sin, for sinners. Margaret Kerr, by His grace we are saved. Salvation is entirely by grace. It's not by works. It wasn't by works in the Old Testament. It's not by works now. It's entirely by grace. All of it is from God. And in covenant theology we believe that in the covenant that God has made to save us through His Son Jesus Christ, in His covenant to save us by grace, all the work was done by God. and there's nothing that we can add to it, there's nothing that we can contribute to our own salvation. It's entirely the free gift of God and it's his grace, grace alone. That was the great doctrine of the Reformation, one of the great doctrines that came out of the Reformation. John Steele, you talked about our lost families and how difficult it is, but can we take comfort if they are not elected and that God does not want them? Well, the Bible says that God is not willing that any should perish but that all shall come to a knowledge of salvation. So I don't think we can use the phrase God does not want them. Whilst the Bible teaches the doctrine of election, we don't know who the elect are and we have to leave that with God. God will do right. He will do right. The astonishing thing is this, not that some men aren't elect, but that any men are elect at all, that anyone is elect. The extraordinary thing is not that some aren't saved, but that some are saved. But no, we don't know. I don't know whether my children are elect or not. I don't. Only God knows that. But I continue to pray for them. And I continue to look to God. I continue to ask him to have mercy upon them. And I'm sure you do with your family as well. And that's entirely right. But God is not willing that any should perish. God takes no pleasure in the death of the ungodly, Ezekiel 33. there's this what we call an antimony, two things that we can't reconcile, but God can reconcile, man's responsibility and God's sovereignty. And we can't point to somebody and say, well, they must be elect because they've done this good thing or that good thing, or they can't be elect because they've done such and such. There's nothing in us that makes us worthy of being chosen by God. There's nothing in us that we have to boast of or to say, well, God chose me because I did this, or God chose me because I did that. It's entirely by the grace of God. And God alone knows why he chooses some and passes over others. And we must just step back in awe and in silent worship of the sovereignty of God. Indeed, Margaret Kerr, God loved us with exceedingly great love in the Lord Jesus Christ and in that salvation that comes through the Lord Jesus Christ. Then the offer is, you know, whosoever will may come and drink freely of the waters of life. And the offer is there. The Lord Jesus Christ was crucified, whosoever will may come. He's been lifted up between the heavens and the earth and he can draw all men to himself and everyone can see him and they can hear this good news. But if they hear the gospel and they reject it, the responsibility remains theirs. Our duty is to set the Lord Jesus Christ before men so clearly that they can see who he is and what the teaching of the Word of God is and what God requires of them. If they don't hear, then they won't believe. How can they hear without a preacher? How can one preach except to be sent? This is what the scripture is saying. I'm going to go now because tomorrow morning God willing at nine o'clock I will be doing the doing another live broadcast. That's for people in the southern hemisphere, but of course everybody's welcome. And God willing, I hope to be speaking about Christian giving and tithing tomorrow morning. Another question asked by a sister in the United States, and it seems appropriate to do a Bible study on that. We're very grateful to you for joining us for this Bible study. As I say, there'll be people that disagree, and we're free to disagree in the Lord Jesus Christ, but every one of us is bound to study the scriptures, and to seek to establish what we say from the scriptures alone. But the Lord be with you, and the Lord be with each one of us. Father, I pray that you'd have mercy upon each one of us, have mercy upon our children, have mercy upon those of us who have children who are unbelieving, and turn their hearts to the Lord Jesus, we pray. We look to you for mercy, we look to you for that salvation which comes from Almighty God. We continue to pray for your people in Gaza, Lord, because of all the people we've heard of, they may be the ones who are suffering most. And we pray, Lord, that you provide for them and keep them, and that their light would shine, Lord, that some of those who do not know Jesus Christ in Gaza even would come to find him as their savior from all sin, because peace in this world, true peace in this world, only comes through knowing the Lord Jesus Christ. We thank you, Father, that the Lord Jesus is our Saviour and that he died for us, and that this wasn't an afterthought, but this was what you sent him into the world to do on our behalf, to die on the cross so that we might be saved. Thank you, Lord, for your great, great mercy towards us. We are unworthy. There is nothing good in us. There is nothing worthy of salvation in us. Thank you, Father, that you sent your Son to die to save an innumerable multitude and to call them to that living faith. And thank you, Lord, that you've given this to us by your grace. So we commend ourselves to you now, asking for the forgiveness of our sins and cleansing in Jesus' precious blood. in his precious name. Amen. Amen. So as I say, I'll do what I normally do, and that's to turn the camera off and allow you to carry on chatting for the next minute or two. That seems to work well. So the Lord bless you. Amen. Bernadette. Jordan Peverelli, just hopped in the last few minutes here. We'll be re-watching it later. Agreed as said above, thank you for the sermon. Bless you, Jordan, and others. Bless you, Sonia and Gypsy Boy. Thank you for watching. The Lord bless you, Sonia. Thank you for watching. And I always have problems finding the button on the camera, but here we go.