Thank you for that, Holly. Well, this is a time that we are looking at questions and answers. And one of the questions that came was, you know, the idea, so it's been in the news about, you know, who is the true Israel? And what is the church's relationship to Israel? And of course, we would surely have to define some terms here. Now, there is a biblical Israel. Obviously, the Lord came to us through Israel. If you go to the book of Revelation, this woman who had a child in the wilderness, And the dragon was after the child. But the child was brought to heaven. Well, that's Israel. This woman is Israel. It was Israel that gave us Christ. And when the child was brought to heaven, well, maybe I should just look at that so we can see exactly what the Bible says It's in a transition chapter in the book of Revelation, so it begins in chapter 12. So chapter 12, the 11 basically ends the first part of the revelation, or of the prophecy. And then there's a transition chapter in chapter 12, and then there's Uh, the second part in that begins in chapter 13, but chapter 12 says, and there appeared a great wonder in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun and the moon was under her feet and upon her head, a crown of 12 stars. Of course, obviously this is very, uh, symbolic. So all of the symbolism. So here's, here's this woman. And she being with child cried, travailing in birth and pain to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven. So, so again, this is spiritual. When you talk about heaven, this one, this woman that appeared in heaven, you know, we're talking about something that's spiritual. And there appeared another wonder in heaven and behold a red dragon, a great red dragon having seven heads. and 10 horns and seven crowns upon his head. And his tail drew a third part of the stars of heaven and did cast him to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman, which was ready to be delivered for to be devoured for to devour her child as soon as it was born. Okay. The red dragon is Satan. The woman is Israel. The child is Christ. And so he's ready to kill Christ, you see. Well, we see that. You go read the story of Christ. Many times, you know, they attempted to kill Christ, but it didn't happen. Or to compromise Christ, but it didn't happen, you see. And she brought forth a man-child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron, and her child was called up unto God and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness. So this is Israel. She flees into the wilderness where she had a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there 1,203 score days. And so that's three and a half years. So the idea of seven and three and a half comes up over and over. And there was a war in heaven. Michael, an archangel, an archangel maybe I should say, Michael, and the word Michael means who is like the Lord God. That's exactly, me is who. The C in that comes from a Hebrew word that stands for, that one letter stands for a preposition. And then the H-A is Yahweh or Jehovah. and then the EL is God. So who is like the Lord God? So this angel, and so Michael and his angels fought against the dragon and the dragon fought and his angels, which is the third part, probably demons, and prevailed not. Neither was their place found anymore in heaven. And the great dragon, so in case you're wondering who that was, was cast out. And the old serpent called the devil and Satan, well, you shouldn't have to guess who this is, right? Which deceived the whole world. Deceived, very interesting. You need to underline the word deceived and you need to write chapter 20 revelation outside that because here's here's the key to all of that which deceived the whole world he was cast out into the earth and his angels were cast out with him so he spiritually defeated and I heard a loud voice saying in heaven now is come salvation and strength in the kingdom of our God and the power of his Christ for the accuser of the brethren is cast down that's what Diabolos means accuser. The accusers cast down, translated here devil, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the lamb and by the word of their testimony. And they loved not their lives unto death. Therefore rejoice ye heavens and ye that dwell in the earth. Woe to the inhabitors of the earth. These are down dwellers. and of the sea, for the devil has come down unto you having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. And when the dragon saw that he was cast into the earth, he persecuted the woman, which brought forth the man-child." Well, of course, again, we know the history of Israel. She's persecuted, especially after Christ. Israel was diffused throughout all the nation. The nation of Israel is no more. They are cast to the wind and cast to the uttermost parts of the world. And to the woman was given two wings of a great eagle that she might fly into the wilderness and into her place where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, three and a half years, you see, from the face of the serpent. And the serpent cast out his mouth, or out of his mouth, water as a flood after the woman that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth and swallowed up the flood, which the dragon cast out of his mouth. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, angry with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God. So who's the remnant of her seed? Well, these are the ones that keep the commandment of God. Who are the remnant of her seed? the ones that have the testimony of Jesus Christ. So who's the remnant of the seed of Israel? It's believers, right? Now if you take that and you go over to Galatians chapter 3, because you remember Galatians, it begins in Galatians chapter 3, O foolish Galatians, who have bewitched that you should have not obeyed the truth before whose eyes Jesus Christ had been evidently set forth, crucified among you. This only would I learn of you. Received ye the spirit by the works of the law? Or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish, having begun in the spirit? Are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain, if it be yet in vain? He therefore that ministers to you the Spirit and worketh miracles among you, doth he it by the works of the law or by the hearing of faith? Even as Abraham believed God, And it was accounted to him, or reckoned to him, or imputed to him for righteousness, you see. So again, this is cited from Genesis 15.6. We see in Genesis 15.6 that there's grace already. Genesis 15.6 to Abraham, the imputation of righteousness by faith. Not by works, but by faith. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith the same are the children of Abraham. So all of this is accomplished in the church, in the people of faith through the Lord Jesus Christ, you see. And the scripture foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel, or preach before the gospel unto Abraham saying, in thee, so here's the gospel, in Abraham, in thee shall all nations be blessed. So then, they which be of faith are blessed with the fateful Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse, for it's written, Is everyone that continues not in the things which are written in the book of the law to do them, but that no man is justified by law. And the sign of God, it is evident for the just shall live by faith. So the blessings of Abraham come through Christ. The promises of Abraham come through Christ. Verse 16 says, now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He sayeth not to the seeds as of many, but as of one and to thy seed, which is Christ. And this, I say that the covenant that was confirmed before of God in Christ, confirmed before of God in Christ, the law which was 430 years after cannot disannul that it should make the promises of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it's no more of promise, but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Wherefore then, serve you the law. Why are you serving the law? It was added because of transgressions. Till the seed that is Christ should come to whom the promises was made and it was ordained by angels in the hand of the mediator or of a mediator. Now, a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid, for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all understand that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. So you see, it's in Christ, it's those that believe, it's those who are Christian. They're the sons of Abraham. And this was not something new, this was before the law. This was a promise made to Abraham back in the 15th chapter of Genesis. It's all about grace, you see. Well, again, if we go to Romans, Let me make sure I'm in the right chapter here. Romans chapter 9 verse 7. And of course this is right in the middle of these passages on the sovereignty of God. 828 through 1136. So here is chapter 9. I say the truth in Christ, verse 1, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost. that I have a great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that myself were cursed from God, from Christ, for my brethren, my kinsmen, according to the flesh. Now he's talking about fleshly Israel here, who are Israelites, to whom pertains the adoption and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the law and the service of God and the promises. Whose are the father, and of whom are concerning, as concerning the flesh, Christ came, whose over all God blessed forever, amen. Now, not as though the word of God hath taken none effect, for they are not all Israel, which are of Israel, neither because they are the seed of Abraham, Are they all children? But Isaac, but in Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God. But the children of the promise are counted for the seed. For this is the word of promise. At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son. And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac, and then here's a parenthesis, for the children being not yet born, neither having done good or having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand not of works, but of him that calleth. So if we, if we skip the parenthesis, verse 10 says, and not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac, it was said, verse 12 unto her, the elder shall serve the younger as it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. That's in Malachi. And so, Jacob I have loved, Esau I have hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion, so then It's not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show thee, or might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore, hath he mercy upon whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou will say then unto me, why doth he yet find fault for who hath resisted his will? Nay, but, O man, who art thou that replies against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay of the same lump to make a vessel, one vessel unto honor and another unto dishonor? What if God willing to show his wrath and to make his power known, endureth with much longsuffering, the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction, and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had aforeprepared unto glory, even us whom he hath called not of the Jews own, but also the Gentile. Well, again, we could read all the way down, but then, so if the church is Israel, now, there are those dispensationalists who don't believe in replacement theology. They call it replacement theology. I just think it's the fulfillment of the scripture, but they call it replacement theology, that the church replaces Israel. Well, the church doesn't replace Israel in the sense that it knocks it off, but the church is the promise. The church is the fulfillment of all of this from Abraham. I mean, you see it over in the scripture that it's the promises to Abraham are fulfilled in Christ. Okay, so then what does that do with the nation of Israel? How does that relate to the nation of Israel? Well, let me just say, first of all, that nation that's over there on the backside of the Mediterranean that we call Israel is not this Israel. That nation was established. I think many of them were proselyte, not natural Israel, they were proselyte, and the first 12 If you go into history and you look at the first 12 presidents of Israel, 10 of them were of some kind of Russian descent, whether it be in Russia or whether it be in Russian-dominated Poland. And Netanyahu was born in Tel Aviv, but his father came out of Russia, or I think Polish-Russian. or Poland that was led by Russia. So you see, there is a Russian connection to this. And so it's not, these are not the sons of Abraham of the flesh that's over here. That is not the Israel of God. Now there is an Israel of God. And I'm going to show you that in just a minute, that there is a future dealing with descendants of Abraham that are not Christians, who are Jews, whether they be, you know, whether they be believers or unbelievers, or whether they be Reformed or liberal Jews or Orthodox Jews, Hasidic Jews. Because many of those Hasidic Jews in New York at the time, right after World War II, they were not for that nation at all over there. In fact, many of them were not pleased to have that nation over there at all. The Hasidic Jews, the Jews who were holy Jews, the Jews that were trying to maintain Judaism, they were not pleased with that. But once it established it, then they accepted it for what it was. But when I'm talking about Israel, I'm not talking about that nation over there. Many in that nation are atheists, don't even believe in God, though they do have this religion. Okay, so at the end of time, what's going to happen? What's going to happen? What is the relationship? Well, we are the sons of Abraham. We are the true Israel. But there are those who have been called Israel that have yet to fulfill the promise or to be the recipients of the promises in Christ. So that's where chapter 11. So we see that chapter 8, Romans 8, 28. through Romans 1136 is this major section on the sovereignty of God and much of what we believe and teach in Reformed theology, many of the proof texts come out of these texts. But he's talking in this context, obviously Paul was a Jew, was a genetic Jew, and he still had this love for his people. And so what about them? And that's where Romans 11 comes in. So Romans 11 1, I say then, hath God cast away his people? God forbid. Okay. Now he's not talking about Christians here in the sense of his people, but he's talking about historically dealing with Abraham His people because he says that hath God cast away his people God forbid for I am an Israelite of the seed of Abraham of the tribe of Benjamin God hath not cast away his people, which he foreknew." Now again, this is very important to understand the word foreknow. This doesn't mean he just was aware of them beforehand. He was aware of everyone beforehand. It cannot mean that. But he had a special relationship with Israel. That is, with these Israelites. The seed of Abraham. after the flesh. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Do you not know what the scripture saith of Elias, how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Lord, they have killed thy prophets and dig down thine altars, And I am left alone, and they seek my life. So he's talking about Elijah. But what sayeth the answer of God unto him? So Elijah's saying, well, I'm alone here, right? But when he told that to God, what'd God say? God said, I've reserved to myself 7,000 men who've not bound the need to the image of Baal. Even so then, at this present time, Paul, now writing, also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then it's no more works, otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it's no more grace, otherwise work is no more work. What then? Okay, so what are we saying here? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for, but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded or hardened. According, as it is written, God hath given dim the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see and ears that they should not hear. Unto this day, and David saith, let their table be made a snare and a trap and a stumbling block and a recompense unto them. Let their eyes be darkened. that they may not see and bow down their back all the way. I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid, but rather through their fall, their rejection of Christ, salvation is coming to the Gentiles. for to provoke them to jealousy. Do you see what he's saying? That God has sent them the spirit and they've stumbled, but they've not fully fallen. And these Gentiles, that's us, who came in, is to provoke them to jealousy. Now, if the fall of them be the riches of the world and the diminishing of them, the riches of the Gentiles, how much more their fullness. Now we have what we have because of what they did. you know, God's purpose before the foundation of the world that Christ would be sacrificed. Peter stands up on the day of Pentecost and said, you know, that by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, you by wicked hands have slain the Son of Glory. So they rejected Him and they cried, let His blood be on us. Pilate says, well, their blood will be on you, not on me. and let his blood be on us. So, they were rejected. But Paul is saying, if that be wonderful because of what we have, if all of them be riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles, how much more their fullness. For I speak unto you Gentiles, And as much as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify my office, if by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be but life from the dead? For if the first fruit be holy, the lump is also holy, and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and the fatness of the olive tree. Boast not against the branches, but if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou will say then the branches were broken off that I might be grafted in. Well, in the sense of you're saying well, because of unbelief they were broken off. And thou standest by faith. But don't be high-minded, but fear. For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest He also spare not thee. So what he's saying here, and many Armenians use this verse to say you can lose your salvation, but that's not what he's really saying, that God is working now with the church and with the Gentile, and as long as we are humble, and as long as we're giving ourselves to these promises of God, that's right. But if we start boasting as if we're something, and they're nothing, well, Well, then God may stop working with us, you see. Not that someone who is saved would become unsaved, but it may not continue to go on, you see, because it didn't go on with them because of unbelief. So you be careful what you say. Be careful of how you deal with this. Behold, therefore, the goodness and the severity of God. On them which fail, severity. But toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in this goodness, otherwise thou also shall be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. And if thou were cut out of the olive tree, which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into the good olive tree, how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? For I would not have, I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery. All right, so when Paul starts talking about mystery, you need to pay special attention, because this is something that God has hidden in himself, and there's no way, it's not a mystery like, you know, some mystery novel, like Agatha Christie or something, you can give you clues, you figure it out. You'll never figure this out, never the mystery. The mystery of God has to be revealed. So he says, now listen, don't be ignorant of this mystery. lest you should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part has happened to Israel, that is the fleshly Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles become in, until God reaps fruit from the Gentiles, until he reaps it all the fruit that has been purposed. That's what the Gentile, the fullness of the Gentile. And so all is shall be saying all is shall be safe. So what he's saying here is that the flesh of the Israel and the Gentiles who have been brought in as sons of Abraham through faith, that all of Israel shall be saved. As it is written, there shall come out of Zion the deliverer and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob. For this is my covenant unto them when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies at this moment for your sake. But as touching the election that is the purpose of God in the end, they are beloved for the Father's sake. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained the mercy through their unbelief. Even so, have these also now not believe that through your mercy, the mercy of the Gentiles, they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief that he might have mercy upon all. And so it is our responsibility, you see, to reach out to these through the gospel. Well, the problem with dispensationalism that sometime, you know, some dispensations, I won't paint with a broad stroke, but some dispensations said, well, Israel, you know, will become a nation at the end of the time and they will even open up the temple and do sacrifices. That's surely contrary. I mean, the sacrifices is over. Christ was the last sacrifice. It won't be any more sacrifices. The Holy of Holies has been exposed to the world. The curtain was rent. That's what that means. And it was rent from top to bottom. It's the hand of God that the Holy of Holies is now open to the world because of our high priest Christ. So he has rejected them. It's his purpose, but there are some that believe, according to election, he's rejected them to bring us in, that we might in turn reach them to bring them in. And then Paul just stops and says, oh the depth of the riches, both of the wisdom and knowledge of God. How unsearchable are his judgments and his ways past finding out. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, or who hath been his counsel, or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again. For of him and through him and to him are all things. To whom be glory forever. Amen. So it seems as if what the Apostle is saying here in Romans 11, that God's not finished with fleshly Israel, that is genetic Israel, the Israelites after the flesh. but he's going to bring them in now there are those who believe that what this is teaching is going to be a great revival at the fullness of the Gentiles history is not going to end in defeat but it's going to end in great revival Because this gospel is going to reach all those living Jews and they're going to come to Christ. Maybe not every single one of them, but in the vast majority of them will come to Christ. And so there will be, history will end in great revival. and then the knowledge of the Lord shall cover the earth as the waters do the sea. So that nation over there is not what this is talking about. But there are Jews today who still reject Christ. Some come to Christ according to election, but some reject. But what Paul is saying in Romans 11 is, that one day, through our mercy, through the work of the church, that these Jews shall be brought into Christ, indeed shall be brought into the church. So it is the church, the church of the firstborn. It's always been about the church. All of Israel's not Israel, but only those chosen by election that God's had mercy upon and God has given promise to, you see. And we have been engrafted into the olive tree. So the root is surely the root is we go back to the Old Testament. The root is from the Old Testament. This woman that gave us Christ, you see. It's all from there. Because the faith of Abraham or the salvation of Abraham was an imputed righteousness because of belief, pointing to the church, pointing to Christ, pointing to the sacrifice of Christ. Well, then the apostles just overwhelmed by such wisdom. Who could figure out such a plan as this? And yet the Lord did it. Now, chapter 12 of Romans 11 stops the theological section And chapter 12 begins the practical section. And I beseech you, therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable unto God, which is a reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world, but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye might prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. For I say, through the grace given unto you, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man this measure of faith. All right, that's kind of a running commentary and gave you a lot of scriptures, but ultimately, that's the relationship of the church to Israel, not to that nation. That nation is not what we're talking about. They call them Israel, but that's not what we're talking about. So, you know, we don't, we don't, you know, listen to them or hear them or do whatever they say to them. They're just another nation that surely would like to have their hands in the treasury of the United States of America. No question about that. And there may be some, I don't really exactly know how to say it, but some Jews of the flesh, some Jews that are actually kin to Abraham by the flesh and not proselyte Jews that are over there. But still, that's not, we shouldn't look to the backside of the Mediterranean for the promises of this, but we should indeed, because God destroyed that nation, he scattered them to the wind, but he'll bring them back in. And it seems as if that will be a great move of God and a great revival when this happens. And of course Islam must be destroyed and anything that throws itself against God because the rock that was cut without hands destroyed the image and grew to fill the earth. And so that's what we look for eschatologically. We don't look for defeat. We don't look for a temple to be rebuilt. I mean, Christ is the temple. We are the temple of God. Our bodies are the temple. So we're not looking for some temple to be built to bring all this about. But we are armed with the gospel. We are the children of Abraham by faith. And we're going to reach out with this gospel specifically you know, or maybe I shouldn't say specifically, but including, I should say, these Jews that we shouldn't boast ourselves against because we owe them. And so it's kind of interesting how many people would cut off the Old Testament. Why would we cut off the Old Testament when here's the Apostle Paul saying, you know, it's because of them. And John, you know, in the Revelation saying it's because of them. And so we grew They're the root, they're the branch, and we've been engrafted in. But all the purpose, but the purpose of God was before the foundation of the world. And all of this unfolding is bringing this about. All right, well, I don't guess unless you have a burning question about this. Does anybody, have I confused you more or helped you some? All right. Of course, you know, there are all kinds of ideas in Christianity. You know, there are people who are covenant theologians. There are people who are, you know, some of them are called New Testament Christians or New Testament, so somewhere I'm trying to come up with the term, but the covenant, I think historically, as you read the confessions, you see the Baptists were covenantal, that we understood that God deals with us with covenant. Then there are those dispensations on the other end that say, you know, that it's not covenantal theology at all. It's the seven dispensations and that We're in an intercalation now, because the 69th week, the 70 weeks of Daniel, the 69 weeks has ended. And then the 70th week should come in, so that's the week of days, so seven more years. But it can't happen, because it didn't happen. So we're in this kind of period between the 69th week of Daniel and the 70th week of Daniel. and the 70th week of Daniel will begin at the rapture, as they teach. And then you'll have these seven years, because the book of Revelation obviously talks about seven years divided into two, three and a half portions, but they're on that end, but that's, but dispensationalism has not been historic to Christianity. Dispensationalism basically started at the end of the 19th century and flourished because of Schofield Reference Bible in the 20th century. 1925, I think, Schofield Reference Bible. And then, and had great, Schofield Reference Bible had a great influence over Baptist preachers, especially, because Baptist preachers didn't have enough money and they didn't go to school. And if you can buy a Bible, and the Bible has these notes that explain these things to you, then that's a good deal, right? But the only problem is that, and these things came from the Plymouth Brethren. It's not historic Christianity. We know what historic, surely we know what historic Christianity is from these confessions. We know what historic Baptist faith is from our 1689 confession, and it has none of this dispensationalism in it. And this dispensationalism is a device in which to interpret the Bible, it's what we call a hermeneutic. Well, we have the covenant theology here, and then there's a half step, and it's really, probably I shouldn't even bring it up, because not very many people agree with this, and it didn't last, I don't think, very long, some kind of half step between them. But the older I get, the more I would come to the confession. You know, young people think they need to have a new idea about things. Gotta rethink everything, gotta reinvent the wheel. I'd been infinitely better off if somebody had handed me a 1689 Confession of Faith when I was 18 and a catechism, either the Children's Catechism or Spurgeon's Catechism or the Shorter Catechism. I'd be infinitely better off than spending the years I've spent in these things that were not proper. So that's why I think the 1689 Confession of Faith is the greatest explanation of biblical Christianity in English, maybe even in any language, and obviously I think superior to the Westminster and superior to the Savoy, because of the corrections the Baptist made. But my eschatological system or my eschatological view is a view of optimism. I don't see how the Church of Jesus Christ, with all of its promises and with all of its power, It can fail. It cannot. And so therefore, I'm optimistic. No matter how bad it looks now, ultimately there will be, the church will be filled. The church and all the sons of Abraham Your son of Abraham, because of this faith, will be brought in and all Israel will be saved. Let's pray. Father, thank you for our...