coming out this exciting 500th anniversary of the Reformation celebration weekend and the first of many great events. And we're excited to have Dr. Jones and I'm going to invite right now Reverend Miller up to open us in prayer. Let's pray. Our Father and our God, we give you thanks for this evening. Thank you that we got here safely. Thank you that Dr. Jones was able to arrive also safely. Pray, Father, that it's a long day already for him, that you'll give him the strength and the clarity of mind. Help those of us who are listening, that we also can listen carefully, learn things about the world in which we live. and how we live for you in it. We ask these things of you in Christ's name. Amen. Briefly, Dr. Jones taught for 20 years in France. 18, actually. OK. What was the name of that? I can't pronounce that, so. Faculté Libre de Théologie Réformée. I did have one year of French, but I've been working hard over the last half century to get what I knew. Well, in English, it's the, actually they've changed the name. It's much easier. It's called the Calvin, John Calvin Institute. I could probably say that. Yeah. And then he came to the United States and he taught at Westminster in California for 15, 15 years? Something like that. 12 years, I think. 12 years. I got to meet him at my first class at Knox Seminary's demon courses. I got to be his taxi driver. And my son had given me a brand-new CD, double CD of the Beatles' number one hits, which we listened to. And he said, did you hear that? That's real good guitar. What he's going to be covering in his lectures, he covered in that course. So I got a chance to get a refresher. and I think that you're really going to enjoy this as well going along. Dr. Jones? Thank you. Wonderful to see so many of you out here. I was worried that you'd be all sitting here tonight and I would not be here because my third flight arrived late, my second flight arrived late in Denver and I had about 10 minutes to change gates And I had to run two-thirds of one of those long, what are they called, terminals. And they were holding the door open just for me. And I could get in, and I was so delighted that you wouldn't be sitting here tonight having to listen to Roy. What I want to do just now is to tell you my plan for this weekend. I don't want any of you just to come tonight, because what I say tonight won't make any sense unless you can take in what I'll say tomorrow. What I'll say tonight is to try to describe something you know very well, but perhaps with certain terminology that will help you to get handles on where our culture is right now. What are we living as a culture? And how does that impair our Christian witness or maybe create opportunities to have Christian witness? But specifically, I'm doing this to try to give to you a discourse on what's happening sexually in our modern day culture. This is an absolute revolution in Western society, what is happening to sexuality in our time. And Christians are dismissed as hateful, bigoted. As soon as they raise any sort of questions or judgment on this subject, one of the most important things you could ever talk about with anybody And that's the culture in which we're living. And I'm trying to develop with you and for you a way of addressing this subject, which I believe cannot be dismissed as just hateful bigotry, but profoundly based on the way the Bible understands the whole of existence. So I'm trying to deliver to you a sort of cosmology of sexuality, if you like. So tomorrow, I will talk about how some in the church are trying to deal with this subject and are really getting nowhere. And then my last lecture, how to love God in our sexuality, is actually trying to understand how our sexuality actually reflects the being of God. I can't get this argumentation more profound than that. This is ground zero for whatever we say about sexuality in our time. So that's my plan, and I just want to find my notes to begin. And it was mentioned that this is the time of the Reformation. It's a wonderful weekend. I don't think I'll be there when we get to the next 500 celebrations. So I want to make the most of this one. But it's been striking me, and I'm preaching on this on Sunday in a certain sense in one of the churches here. Which one, Ron? Where are you? Sunday night. Zion PCA, wherever that is. Does anyone know what that is? Some of you know. And then I'm leaving on the Monday to go to Tabasco, Mexico. I won't be even going home. I go straight to Mexico, where I'm participating in another celebration of the Reformation with the Mexican Presbyterians. And this is a major celebration. They tell me that they have a choir of 400 voices that's been practicing for this event. So the Reformation is definitely on our minds, right, at this particular weekend. It only comes around once every 500 years. So you should forgive us if we overstate the case. But as I've thought about it, You know, the question that was being dealt with at the time of the Reformation hasn't gone away, obviously. It's how can I be saved, and what can I do for my salvation? But there's a different question being raised today. It's a question of identity. Who am I? Who am I as a person, and specifically, who am I sexually? And I think that that question, more than any other question in our time, refocuses Christian thinking and the gospel. In a way, 500 years ago, the question, how can I be saved, focused the church on the gospel. So this is a celebration, but at the same time, it's a realization that we are actually facing a different fundamental question. And I do think that this question of who I am touches the gospel. It's a fundamental issue and thus requires Christians to know how to speak to this issue in our time. One of the things we just have to avoid, I believe, in this discourse is moralism. You know, that sense that we're superior to you poor sinful people. We won't have anything to do with sexual deviance of any kind. We are pure. We may not take that position. We may not take a position of hatred or bigotry. I think we're dealing with people who have suffered much in the past. and have received abuse from many people, and we have to approach such people with great love and care. But we may never have contempt for gay people, because a homosexual person deserves respect and love as a fellow human being made in God's image. Amen? We have to keep that in mind. Of course, that's always the question, the issue that Christians face as they seek to preserve God's truth and righteousness and also love sinners, ourselves included. So that's always the problem, but this becomes even more volatile in our time. I don't think we should demonize them, certainly not show them bigotry and so-called righteous anger, a la the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas, which may be close to here. I don't know. Close, maybe geographically, but I hope otherwise not. So I entered this subject. with fear and trepidation in a certain sense, but because, I do so because it is such a burning issue, and especially for our young people. We cannot afford to be silent on this issue, because silence will be devastating. To raise this question, though, in present culture is quite difficult to do, granted where our culture has come. Pastor Roy mentioned that he was playing Beatle music to me many years ago. He didn't tell you, actually, that I was a boyhood friend of John Lennon. and played music with John and almost joined the Quarrymen, which was the first Beatles group because we were at school together. And I saw, as I was growing up, a kind of a culture that I did not realize was on its way down. It was the end of what we call the Christian culture, Christendom. We both went to a state school, but every day, the principal of the state school opened with prayer and Bible reading, a state school. And much of what we heard was done within the context of a sort of biblical worldview. things have changed so much since that time in my lifetime I'm sort of here as a historical artifact to bring you proof that I have seen something happening and I know for you young people that might be difficult to hear from an old kadja like myself because old people always say it was so much better when we were in charge or when we were growing up. But I call for evidence. A woman, Elizabeth Fox Genovese, who was an intellectual. She was a radical feminist atheist, part of the hippie revolution of the 60s. And towards the end of her life, she became a Christian. But she actually said, as a historian, within a remarkably brief period, a cataclysmic transformation of the very nature of our society has taken place. Can I repeat that? Here's a historian saying this. Within a remarkably brief period, a cataclysmic transformation of the very nature of society has taken place. She saw that something massive was happening during the 60s revolution. Well, she did at the end become a Christian, a non-Christian, but still a non-Christian, a Jewish philosopher, observer in the UK, Melanie Phillips, spoke about the 60s as an attack on Western civilization. If a picture is worth a thousand words, I saw a picture in the Huffington Post a few weeks ago. It's a picture that convinced me that something radical has flipped. Since my days at Quarry Bank High School with John Lennon, assuming that the Christian worldview was in place, we didn't even think about it, actually. We were not really conscious Christians at all. But this picture convinced me that something cataclysmic has happened since that moment. So I'm not nostalgically trying to take you back to the 50s, folks, especially young people. Don't misunderstand me. I'm talking about a cataclysmic change in Western culture. you see the difference not just when we were kids the only way we offended the adults was chew gum you're chewing gum and you're not offending me that's not the kind of civilization I'm trying to defend it's a massive change in the way we put the world together and here's the picture it was a picture of Canadian policemen sitting in their dress uniform on prayer stools in a Buddhist temple, meditating. And the abbot of this Buddhist temple said, they were very nice and they liked it and they think it should be part of their daily practice. Here we have people representing, if you like, Western law and the application of it now being raised to think about a very different kind of law in trying to put the world together again according to a Hindu-Buddhist way of thinking. That's an amazing picture to me. And so I want to just put before you where I see these catastrophic changes, how they've happened. And I want to talk about two areas where these changes have occurred, two massive areas of human existence and deeply related one to the other, namely, In the 60s, we saw both a sexual revolution and a spiritual revolution. You hear me? A sexual and a spiritual revolution. That's why, you see, when we talk about sexuality today, we can naively think that it has nothing to do with spirituality. It's just a person's democratic, civil rights, choice to be who he wants to be. But there's more going on, you see, with sexuality because it's intimately bound up with spirituality, because it's intimately bound up with who we are as human beings in those two areas. So I want to look. I only have two points, I think. I might find more as I go on down. I want to look at the change, the catastrophic transformation in terms of spirituality and then in terms of sexuality. I think you'll understand what I'm talking about. I remember in the 70s and 80s people were talking about the New Age. You remember the New Age? Some of you do. Any of you young people ever heard of the New Age? No, never. But at that time, the New Age was a big thing. It was really the way we were talking about the change in spirituality. But it's centered on the individual. It was the individual finding some kind of spiritual spiritual revolution in his thinking and some kind of sense of his own importance. It was focused on the individual. And that's why, in a certain sense, it remained very limited in its approach. And since you never hear the word New Age anymore, you might think, oh well, it went away. Actually, it didn't. It went mainstream. And here's the proof that it went mainstream. It's the phrase you've all heard so many times from your pastor, you don't want to hear it again. I'm spiritual, but not religious. In other words, people are claiming now to be spiritual. A brother here mentioned that I did a series with Ligonier, Two Religions, was that what it was called? It was 12 lectures of 25 minutes each, you can get a hold of that if you wish, where I tried to show that the enemy today is not secular humanism. Secular humanism is going under style. And the reason is because people say, now I'm spiritual, not religious. People are turning to spirituality to put their world together because secular humanism has failed them. And what do we mean when we say I'm spiritual? Well, here's just an example of how spiritual the world has become. A brilliant woman whom I've heard speak on a number of occasions by the name of Jean Houston was an advisor to Hillary Clinton in the White House in the 90s. She is a deeply committed pagan spiritual woman. And she was helping Hillary Clinton get in some kind of spiritual contact with Eleanor Roosevelt. So something odd was going on in the White House in the 90s. And the reason why I can say that is During that same period, she published a book and I'll give you the title of the book in a minute, but she said at that moment, we are living in a state of both breakdown and breakthrough, a whole system transition, cataclysmic transformation. Remember that phrase? This is what this woman says in 95 now. a whole system transition requiring a new alignment that only myth can bring. Well, the book she published at that moment was entitled The Passion of Isis and Osiris and that is the study of the goddess Isis of the old Egyptian paganism and associated with Osiris, her husband. But Isis was the goddess of the underworld. And Gene Houston said at that time, we are living in mythic times, a time when we communicate with those mythic beings, Isis and Osiris. See, this is not playing around anymore with just, you know, relaxing or meditating. This is serious pagan spirituality. and she was really part of a whole movement to take the new age focused on the individual to a much larger focus in the culture to produce what you might call a pagan cosmology for our time a new humanism that would explain everything to everybody and many of the people involved in this extension of the spirituality to a whole worldview have been working very importantly at the UN and various other major places of global importance and have had a massive influence on the way cultural and political leaders think. So what has been happening then in this catastrophic transformation in terms of spirituality? In a word, the West has become East. It's gone East of Eden, as the Bible says. But in the very real sense of Hindu-Buddhist kind of thinking, There are a couple of books on which my remarks depend, and you might want to read them if you're that kind of a person. Colin Campbell published a book in 2007 entitled, listen, The Easternization of the West, a thematic account of cultural change in the modern era. I'll say that again. The Easternization of the West, the thematic account of cultural change in the modern era. This is a serious sociological work endorsed by many academics, making a plausible case that there is a process of easternization currently occurring in the West I'm citing him now, quite unlike anything previously experienced. Here's this notion of catastrophic transformation, you see. Totally independently, this man is saying, this has occurred, a fundamental change unlike anything previously experienced. And what has been lost, he says, is faith in Christianity and in the power of reason. Namely, secularism and Christianity are losing their place for different reasons, obviously. And this kind of Eastern spirituality is taking over. It's not difficult to convince you with little details like how many people are practicing meditation, mindfulness, yoga, all these Eastern methods to get ourselves now focused into spirituality. A second book written by a Western Jew, A Convert to Hinduism, published in 2010, with the intriguing title American Veda, How Indian Spirituality Changed the West. I'll read that one again. You should read these books, folks. If you want to understand Western culture today, you have to become an expert in the way people are thinking. so that you can actually speak clearly the gospel to these people. Because their way of putting their world together is very different than the backsliders in the 60s and 70s in America, who knew the gospel backwards. These people are learning a totally different worldview and totally different vocabulary. And you need to become an expert in this field. American Veda, how Indian spirituality changed the West. He did that in 2010. He cites a Newsweek that says, we are all Hindus now. According to Goldberg, America is engaged in a reconfiguring of the sacred based on Hinduism. A reconfiguration comparable in power, I found this very touching, to the Christian great awakenings of the 18th century. Isn't that an interesting comparison? Why was America so Christian? Because of the Christian awakenings of the 18th and the 19th centuries. This man says, what's happening now is just as powerful, but it's going into Hinduism. And so we can say, to sum up, that Western nations have removed the Judeo-Christian foundation and they're adopting a totally different foundation. They've replaced it with a view that human beings are the product of chance and can invent and reinvent themselves at will. Instead of the notion that we had when I was growing up with John Lennon, that there was a creator and that we were made in God's image and that there was such a thing as male and female marriage and things like that, now we are liberated to reinvent ourselves just exactly the way we want to do so. That's a catastrophic transformation, don't you think? And even you people, young people, that didn't see the flip, now I hope you can begin to see that something fundamental is happening and it cannot be simply dismissed or accepted as progressive thinking towards a more free society. This is a spiritual transformation that has taken place in our Western culture and it will have massive implications. Fortunately the Bible knows how to speak to this situation. It gives us vocabulary with a little help from yours truly. In other words, what we are seeing is the change from Western Christianity to Eastern Hindu paganism. And this is very clearly stated by the Apostle Paul In Romans 1.25, it's a verse that I pondered. Well, I used to read it without realizing what it was saying until I suddenly realized what it was saying. When he says, there are only two possibilities to be human being. You either worship and serve creation or you worship and serve the creator. Isn't that incredibly simple? There are no other possibilities. Either creation creates itself, or there is a creator who is the source of everything that we know. There are no other possibilities. And of course, worship and creation can be done by spiritualists or atheists or whatever. It still has that same focus on nature or matter being the source of its own existence. And that's why you worship it. I tried to give the Apostle Paul a couple of phrases that maybe would have helped him. I don't know. In the sense that worshiping nature, I would like to call that one-ism. And worshiping the Creator, two-ism. I always say, if you can count from one to two, you can be a theologian. Because you will see as I go on with this lecture that that is where it all comes down. It's either one or two. That's horrendously simplified, and yet it's true. One-ism describes that worship of creation where there is nothing but creation matter and since it's all the same all ultimate we worship it but you cannot think in terms of anything but it's unity everything is one and you've heard this many times so one ism is the worship of creation as divine and worship of everything within that one-ism as divine. Now it's interesting, once you start to get that focus that all is one, it slowly begins to become impossible to think of things in terms of distinctions. And that's what we're seeing today, the elimination of distinctions. I'll get to that in a minute, but just put that in your back pocket. Two-ism, you see, is correctly called because if you worship the Creator, as Paul says, is the only other option, then you have recognized that in the whole of reality there are two kinds of beings, the Creator and creation. The Creator has never been created. It's a mystery, I know. But that's who God is. God never was created. Everything else had a beginning. Everything else was created. As far as I can figure it out mathematically, that just makes two kinds of existence, right? But they're fundamentally significant. Instead of reducing God down to who I am, within me, which is a oneness view of things, God remains separate from me. And He's the Savior of His creation, because He's external to it and can therefore save it. You see how that twoism is fundamental to our preaching of the gospel. When we recognize that God is distinct from us, in His very being, and in that being, God, in His affection for the creation, saves it, in the person of Jesus, the Son. So the Gospel is twoist, and I believe, as we seek to speak the Gospel in this time of Hinduism and Oneism, we can more effectively, perhaps, confront people with the way they think. And maybe many of them don't have thought much about the way they think. But to tell them they're a oneist, I don't think you would offend them, because they don't know what you're talking about. And you describe to them their worldview, and then give to them the Christian worldview, you see. And it's not simply Jesus died for your sins. That's so important. But it's so much more. is that there is a God who is separate from the creation, who existed forever, who is able to save you. And he does so in Jesus. So the gospel, I think, becomes more powerful in this time than maybe it was, oh, a generation or so ago. So there are the two options and they really fit with what's been happening in our time in terms of spirituality. We are in the presence of a confrontation of two fundamental worldviews. And I think you all are very intelligent. I know that because you came tonight. And I know that you can understand what this means. Are you a oneist or a twoist? That's the fundamental question. And it's important that we see what is happening in our world today in terms of spirituality and sexuality in terms of this notion of oneism. In terms of spirituality and oneism, a new age guru that I followed for some time was giving a lecture that I listened to and I was bowled over especially because I have a book back there called one or two which you should all buy obviously one or two seeing a world of difference people didn't want me to put that title on that book they thought it was too simplistic or whatever and I said no I'm I'm doing it. One or two. Here's the title of this men's lecture. Why is it important that there is only one, not two? This is a pagan Hindu convert from Judaism who's asking that question. Why is it important that there is only one, not two? All our problems stem, he said, from those who believe in duality or twoism. Well, he didn't use twoism because that's my phrase, from duality. The discovery that there is only one, not two, I'm citing it now, is the solution to all our problems because oneism is the fundamental nature of reality. Now this is spiritual, not religious. This is the fundamental doctrine that is being espoused with that kind of a statement. But I was similarly bowled over when reading the book by Philip Goldberg, American Vader, that I cited to you. When he said that the Hindu notion of Advaita is being adopted by many Americans in our time. You might wonder, as I did, what the Sanskrit word Advaita means. You'll never believe me. Not to. Not to. This is incredible. It's the fundamental belief that everything is one, Thus, there is no external creator. And the God that you will find in the spiritual vision of things is the God within nature, the God within you, the spirit that's going through everything. That's why some people hug trees, by the way. It's because the spirit, the divine, is in everything. That is the ideology that is going through our culture, at this time with such power. It used to be said that the Bible as a phenomenon gave shape to the West, both in its language and in its thinking. And of course, that would have been true in terms of what Luther did to the German language and how the Reformation transformed the West And as one scholar said, oh it was actually Benjamin Warfield, that the Bible produced a common humanity. Now biblical values are being rejected, even disallowed in the public square, I read two days ago at Kent State University that the statement, you need Jesus, is now considered a hate speech. You need Jesus. That's hate. Why? Because it's twoist. And a new humanism of this pagan one-ism is taking over the West. I'm not watching the time, Roy. I'm sorry. That was my first point. I did think of, though, I brought along a DVD in this general subject of how we speak about sexuality in our time. So take a look at this. identity in the gospel it's on the back table but I do recommend that because and this is the wonderful segue I'm moving to the second area of sexuality how has our culture been radically transformed sexually and that was clearly the case of The sexual revolution of the 60s, if it moves, fundle it. Do whatever you want, in other words. Whatever you want is okay. But I want to come right to the heart of it, because I realize I've run out of time. That the sexual revolution adopts the similar kind of thinking as the spiritual. Follow me here. If twoism is not valid, then how do we think about sexuality? Have you been noticing, maybe in things you read on the internet, some of you may, in a very old-fashioned gesture, read the newspaper, have you noticed the phrase, let's destroy the binary? The binary. Now, I'm saying it in an English way. I should try and say it in an American way. Binary. Now you understand. Sorry. An article by two professors, both lesbians, entitled, Can We Put an End to the Gender Binary? this now becomes the programmatic statement to end all kinds of gender thinking of any kind. And in Texas last week, a program in some schools in Texas requests that teachers no longer use the terms boy or girl for six-year-olds. What do you think that is? It's the destruction of the binary. It's the destruction of twoism, which is the fundamental notion of the spiritual movement in which we live. Do you understand? These things are related, dear friends. A Stanford University course is offered, Destroying Dichotomies, Exploring Multiple Sex, Gender, and Sexual Identities. dichotomies is another word for twoism so you'll find these phrases the call is for the non-binary that is no distinctions or you can see other terms like the non-dual which means not two But keep your eye open for these statements because they are actually programmatic for what is happening in our time. Can we put an end to the gender binary? Well, they're doing very nicely. Thank you. The sexual culture in which we now live was part of that catastrophic transformation in the 60s. This is a long issue, but it was created both by Alfred Kinsey and Hugh Hefner. Both of them, interestingly, were in massive rejection of their evangelical Christian backgrounds. And both of them fought in their different ways to liberate sexuality to what it's become today. I was lecturing in Korea this spring, and one of the lecturers at this Christian conference was a woman that I'd read about, a German intellectual sociologist. And I'd read her books, but I'd never met her, and I imagined what she was like. one of these really tall German intellectual powerhouses, and that's exactly what she was. So this little dumpy English guy standing next to this German intellectual. But it was so wonderful. She was an atheist, just like Fox Genovese. And she became a Christian some years ago. And she has written a book called The Global Sexual Revolution. and it is a powerful examination of what has been happening in Western culture at the level of sexuality. She speaks about massive but mysteriously powerful cultural transformations that started with the student rebellions and now is the revolutionary cultural agenda of the world's power elites. She makes the point, for instance, that the United Nations, the standard for sexual theory was generally God made man male and female. And that's the way the United Nations thought about gender. That's been changed. That's been injected from the United Nations. And it's an attempt now to create a new human being. anyway just to finish my little story this powerful German woman I gave my lecture the one I will give you tomorrow the last lecture and she came up to me gave me a big hug I was blown away she said thank you that puts it all together what she was hearing was a little bit of reform theology anyway she's a wonderful lady and but she says She defines the power of the movement not as an outward imposition of political structures, but an attack aimed at a person's innermost moral structure. A person sexualized from childhood is taught it is right to live out all of your instincts without reflection. It is wrong for you to set boundaries for them. This is where we are. And you young people know that. You don't learn sexuality from your pastors. You learn it on your phones. You learn it in the stuff you read on the internet. You learn it from the culture. We were told that normalizing homosexuality wouldn't bother anybody. It would just be giving civil rights to a small group of people. That's not what the Gay Manifesto said. The gay revolution will produce a world in which all social and sensual relationships will be gay, and in which homo and heterosexuality will be incomprehensive terms. That's starting to happen. With transgenderism and agenderism, that is, no gender, we are eliminating the very notion of sexual distinction. that is sexual tourism this is what's going on right now I'm trying to jump forward so I got lots of information here, but in a way this is what you are seeing every day as well. You're seeing the destruction of sexual distinction. You're seeing ideologies that say you can be who you want to be, instead of what they used to say was you were born gay, now they're saying you can change your sex if you want to. And so it's become a very fluid kind of situation But the point is, there is no such thing as the gender binary, which is exactly what Genesis 1, 27 and 28 says. In the beginning, God created, in the beginning, what is it? I can't even think of it. God created man, male and female, in his own image. That is the message we have to bring, folks, It's a moment of sanity that we have to find a way of speaking about around us, in our world, which otherwise will implode with this kind of thinking that is so anti-human. This kind of a world will not be able to reproduce itself. If there's no gender, or if it's homogender, there'll be no reproduction. So I want you to be aware that these changes are not the result of free-thinking, bright progressives as such. They're all quite bright, actually. And they think they're progressive, but you know what? They're going backwards. The progress is going backwards to ancient paganism. And I think we need a generation of Christians who understand these issues that actually worldview never changes. It's always been either one or two. And we knew about the power of twoism in Christendom, and now we're seeing the power of oneism in this new paganism that's taking us back to ancient Rome. But it seems to me that we have to find this locus where we can discourse clearly about what is happening spiritually and sexually. And we must not forget the warning of the Apostle Paul because many in the church today are believing that the culture is understanding what it means to be liberated, and they're encouraging people to go down this pathway of liberation. But the Apostle Paul says, do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Amen? Thank you. now it's not five to wait we could have a few questions if you would like yes Well, I think what you're putting your finger on is really we're faced with these two options, like we've never done before, because you did have in the past people who were sort of mildly Christian but didn't practice. And so you were trying to tell them, look, you need to be serious about what you say you believe, or you need to be serious and get with the true gospel. But now we're seeing people who believe this karma, believe this God within. And I think we have to confront them with these two definitions of God. And I don't think the definition of God, the God within, is very attractive. I mean, I look in the mirror every morning and I say, oh no. If that's the God within, no thank you. But the God who is behind this incredible creation, without which we really cannot come to any intelligent explanation of it, namely personhood, beauty, morals, things like that. Where does that come from? Does matter create morals? It's ridiculous. So I think we're in a whole new day of apologetics in confronting these two definitions of God, where the biblical God, I think, wins hands down. Yes? Well, there is a movement in science that's called, well, it's oneist science. where it says that everything is one, everything is joined together. Because what science cannot do, it can talk about process, but it cannot talk about origins. These incredibly brilliant people have no clue where this evolutionary process began. It's just they always push it further and further back. But there's no statement of origins, which is what we all as intelligent human beings need to hear from intelligent people. So science really doesn't bring an answer. And I think we can confront scientists like that. Yes? Well, I jumped over because Roy was giving me an evil look. I jumped over a few pages of citations of so-called evangelicals who opt for the cultural solution to the problem of sexuality. And they believe that the culture is telling us what to do, and it's correct. And they're woefully misinstructed. And I think it flows from a lack of solid theology, frankly. If you don't have a solid theology, you will fall in this day and age. And that's why much evangelicalism, let me see if I can find, well, I'll do it tomorrow because I have some further statements, but it's generally statements about the solution we need to find is love. and look how the culture wants us to love homosexuals, so that's what we have to do. And the pressure of the culture normalizing this sort of free decision of the self to do whatever you want to do affects the church to act in terms of where the culture is going. in many many cases and I have a number of citations in another lecture here so I'll talk about that tomorrow actually but it is I worry because I think this is the next apostasy in the churches right now it will affect the way we think about ourselves and the way we think about God the way we think about the gospel and many churches are actually defecting from orthodoxy into forms of neoliberalism, which will take them even further away from the gospel. So it is a catastrophic transformation in that sense, too. Yes? Yeah, that's what I meant. I meant our doctrine of God the Creator as a far superior explanation of existence confronted with this God within, which is basically saying that matter is divine. And I think if you can get the discussion on that level, you win hands down. All right. We have a session starting tomorrow at 10 o'clock. Dr. Jones, what's the name of your radio show? Friendly Fire. Friendly Fire. And he will be on there with you tomorrow at 7 o'clock. Not taped, but? Live. Live. I don't know whether I'd be alive because it would be 4.30 in the morning for me. We do pray for our brother that he gets some rest tonight. So he'll be sharp, not only at the radio, but with us. Help us to get the rest that we need. Some of these are different concepts. We've not thought about them before. We've not thought about them in this way. But above all, Lord, that we would learn to remember and to live as your creation and your new creation in Christ Jesus. Those of you who would like to get some information about my ministry, I have a couple of things here. So come and see me. Oh, yeah.