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“ Parts 2 & 3 ” Part 2...
https://www.sermonaudio. com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=11818132 31410
Part 3...
https://www.sermonaudio. com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=11181821 300
Traever Guingrich (5/27/2019)
from Alabama (AL)
“ Great Sermon! ” To answer your question about the "junkdrawer" term; yes that is original to me. I'm glad you found it helpful. I don't think it's fair to claim I painted with an overly broad brush when I was covering a topic of the AB's in general. There' simply not time to cover the abundant idiosyncrasies of every sect amongst them. So I gave general trends. Nor was it my job to cover just the early AB's or sum up the primary source material. I cited some of the important sources & I believe I was rather fair with them. I'm glad to hear you know of orthodox theological books from a Mennonite perspective. I never claimed those don't exist. I claimed that thorough systematic theology & accurate exegesis/hermeneutics are not a common trend among AB's as a group. The material you may know of, if it is orthodox as you claim, does not overwhelm the evidence to the contrary. IOW, it is likely the exception to the rule.
There is no getting around the fact that the Particular Baptists sought to & succeeded in distancing themselves from being identified with the AB's. The PB's have a reformed & Puritan heritage. That is overwhelmingly the source of their influence. That is proven even more by their usage of the Westminster Standards & Savoy Declaration in writing the 2nd London Baptist Confession.
Traever Guingrich (5/27/2019)
from Alabama (AL)
“ Response to Jeremy ” The claim that the 1644 confession was influenced by Simon's was originally made by Glen Stassen in a few articles. Dr. Renihan responded quite thoroughly in an award winning article in the American Baptist Quarterly in an article titled "An Examination of the Possible Influence of Menno Simons' Foundation Book upon the Particular Baptist Confession of 1644." You can find it in vol. 15 No.3 Sept 1996 edition. His refutation of Stassen's claims stand.
Jeremy, I can understand your perspective, but it does not undermine the thrust of my argument. One of my points was the clear idiosyncratic nature of many Anabaptist groups, as well as the clear mixture of both orthodoxy & heresy. Your good experience may very well have been just that. Parts of mine were good as well. But even the Mennonites have displayed this same mixture in their own sects. Some of them likewise display even more "cult-like" behavior than what I personally experienced. The Amish & Hutterites display this as well. It is common, regardless of what you have experienced. It may or may not have been an identifiable characteristic among the early Anabaptists that you have read, but it has certain become a characteristic over time.
(continued...)
Jeremy (5/27/2019)
from Bloomsburg, PA
“ Some problems - Part 2 ” (....continued)
The term is used as an umbrella term to cover many groups. Unfortunately, this led to a talk that paints with an overly broad brush, while being overly colored by the speaker’s own bad experiences when applying its modern implications. The speaker would have been better served by interacting more with specific primary sources, and creating more separation amongst very disparate groups by doing so.
The speaker is a good orator and is engaging, but overall I would not recommend this talk to others as a good overview of the topic. There are certainly good parts, but enough conclusions that don’t match my own study in the primary sources and my own experiences give me pause. (And contrary to the speaker’s claim, I can point you to a number of good, completely orthodox theology books from a mennonite perspective! I recommend starting with Daniel Kauffman.)
Jeremy (5/27/2019)
from Bloomsburg, PA
“ Some Problems - Part 1 ” I am commenting on this message (and part 2) as a Reformed Baptist pastor who has a Mennonite background and has read significantly in the early anabaptists.
First, these messages are very colored by the speaker’s background in a very fringe, seemingly cult-like group that apparently classifies themselves as anabaptist. The experiences he describes are very different from anything I have seen in mennonite circles. His experiences are certainly his experiences, but be aware that they don’t in any way represent any type of “normal” anabaptist experience.
Also, I wondered early in his first talk if he had been influenced by Jim Renihan in his views, as it seemed to be present. Lo and behold, a bit later in the talk he mentioned being in Renihan’s class. Accordingly, despite being presented at a conference on the history of the baptists, there is no mention of the influence of Menno Simon’s writings on the First London Confession. Renihan minimizes this connection, but as someone who has studied Simon’s writings, that influence is undeniably present and easily recognizable.
The “junk drawer” analogy on how the term anabaptist is used historically is a good one (and one I had never heard before, so I’m assuming it is original to the speaker). (continued....)
Suz (11/18/2018)
from NorCal
“ Great Sermon! ” Excellent presentation! So enjoyed listening to the history of the Anabaptists... had always wondered if they were the founders of the current Baptists... thanks for the clarification.
Traever Guingrich is pastor of Grace Chapel Reformed Baptist Church in Argo, AL. He and his wife Andrea have been married since 2004 and have 6 kids. He attended Purdue University where he earned a B.S. in Machine Systems Engineering. After working as an engineer for Caterpillar...
