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Dr. M. Keith Foskey | Jacksonville, Florida
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www.sovereigngracefamilychurch.org
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Sovereign Grace Family Church
13773 N. Main St.
Jacksonville, Fl. 32218
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Questions from a Mormon (6)
TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 27, 2011
Posted by: Sovereign Grace Family Church | more..
2,440+ views | 360+ clicks
Hello Mr. Foskey
First of all, sorry again for the slow reply.  School, work, family etc. have kept me very busy recently.  But I am very happy to continue our discussion. 
You had some great comments.  Please see my responses below:
COMMENTS: 
REVELATION ENDED?  
I understand that you, as well as many others, believe that, “revelation has concluded”.   However, to my knowledge this teaching is not Biblical.  On the contrary, the Bible teaches the opposite, that God is a God of revelation.  You shared Hebrews 1:1,(...God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son...).  This passage speaks of how revelation was given in Old and New Testament times, but it states nothing of how God plans to guide his people in the future (after the death of Christ).   This passage, written by Paul, (who, by the way, that was called by revelation AFTER Christ’s ascension, and who added much to scripture), is bascially stating that, “In the past God only talked to us through the prophets, but he recently has spoken to us through the Son”.  Many prophets have warned against changing the words of their own prophecies (Deut. 4:2, Rev. 19:22 etc.), but no one ever claimed that God would stop guiding his people through revelation. 
You’re next comment was very interesting:  “Any further Revelation would be unnecessary... I see no further need of additional revelation”.  Firstly, who are we to say what we need, for only God knows this.  Secondly, regarding whether revelation is needed today, let’s look at the churhc.   The Lord has taught that there is “one body...one Lord, one faith, one baptism” (Eph. 4:4-5) and that there should be “no division” among us (1 Cor. 1:10), yet we have Methodists, Baptists, Presbyterians, 7th Day Evangelists, Catholicism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, non-denomitational etc.  We disagree on the interpretations of doctrines such as the nature of God, the necesity & mode & age of baptism, church organization, laying on of hands, authority, the relationship of faith vs. works, election vs. free will (etc),  and this even among intelligent, God-loving, honest students of the word.  Would not additional revelation clairy and help us unify ourselves?  Additionally, revelation is not just to reveal/clarify doctrine.  God used revelation to  show his power, to guide us, and sometimes to save our mortal lives (Noah and his family were saved from death, Moses and the Hebrews from slavery etc.).  I will end my comments on this subject, with a passage from the Book of Mormon, which is another testament of Jesus Christ.
 “And again I speak unto you who deny the revelations fo God, and say that they are done away, that there are no revelations, nor prophecies, nor gifts, nor healing, nor speaking with tongues, and the interpretation of tongues;  Behold I say unto you, he that denieth these things knoweth not the gospel of Christ...for do we not read that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and in him there is no variableness neither shadow of changing?” (Mormon 9)
 
2.  ANOTHER CHRIST?:  You are correct in sharing that quote from Pres. Hinckley where he shared his view that we worship a Christ other than the “traditional” (traditional to Protestant belief) Christ.  I agree with both sides... I can see how one can say they are different Christ’s (becuase of the large differences in what is believed about them), and also the view that they are the same person, and we just understand them differently.  They there different view points, and can both be correct.  You made a good point. 
QUESTIONS:
1.       Besides Hebrews 1:1 (which I touched on above), do you know of any of passages that you feel clearly teach that God will no longer give revelations to his people?
2.       What do you think is the purpose of life?  In other words, what was God’s ultimate purpose in creating mankind and placing them on a world where there was also Satan (and his demons), along with a tree that would make them and billions of offspring mortal?  What is the purpose of all this?
3.       There is great suffering, disease and hunger the world (including among infants, children and women).  Why does God allow all of that to happen?
4.       I have heard that many Protestant Christians believe that all of mankind except for a “few” (Matt. 7:7) will end up in hell to be tortured for all eternity.  Is this your belief as well?  This seems like a dreadful belief, and I fail to see how this would glorify God.  What are your thoughts?
5.       Do you beleive that the choice to beleive in Jesus Christ is God’s (He chooses us and makes us beleive), or is the choice ours (we choose to believe and love him of our own free will)?
6.       Do you have any questions for me?
I look forward to hearing back from you.  God bless. 
Jonathan Hatch

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Hello Jonathan,

This may end up being a shorter response, but I will try to engage your questions as best as I can with the time I have available. As before, I will engage the comments and questions you have given, and I will try to include my own questions to you.

COMMENTS:

You stated, “no one ever claimed that God would stop guiding his people through revelation.” I agree, God has not stopped leading His people by revelation. We have His revelation written for us in His Word. If what you are saying is that God always has to lead His people through the use of Prophets, I would then say that we see many periods in the history of Israel wherein God did not send the people any prophets. The 400 years between the days of Joseph and Moses, God did not send a prophet to His people. They relied upon the teachings of their ancestors. The 400 years between the Old Testament and the New Testament, God did not send a prophet. Though I am well aware that some claim the Apocrypha as Scripture, which would maintain the idea of prophetic revelation during this time, but most protestants do not receive the Apocrypha as Scripture. From what I understand, neither did Palestinian Jews during the time of Christ, which is why Jerome was opposed to their initial inclusion in the Latin Vulgate, but later added them because of political pressure. Furthermore, Joseph Smith said, “Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you concerning the Apocrypha-There are many things contained therein that are true, and it is mostly translated correctly; There are many things that are not true, which are interpolations by the hands of men. Verily, I say unto you, that it is not needful that the Apocrypha should be translated. Therefore, whoso readeth it, let him understand, for the spirit manifesteth truth; And whoso is enlightened by the Spirit shall obtain benefit therefrom; And whoso receiveth not by the Spirit, cannot be benefited. Therefore it is not needful that it should be translation. Amen."

The point is that there have been times in Scripture wherein God’s people were without a prophetic voice, but not without the Revelation from God, either in the teachings of their ancestors or the writings of their prophets. I would propose that this is where we are today. We have revelation from God, just not from the mouth of a living prophet. We have His written Word, which is itself revelation. “All Scripture is ‘God-Breathed’” according to Paul (2 Tim 3:16), and as such when we read the Word’s of the Bible, we are reading what God has said.

I think the burden of proof is really on the person who says God has spoken through a “latter-day prophet”. I do not deny God the ability to speak into His world. He is Creator, and can do what He wishes. I do, however, test all which claims to be revelation by that which we know is revelation. We know the Old Testament is revelation because it was accompanied by the wonders given to Moses and the prophets, and it was verified by Christ who called it Scripture. We know that the apostles, to whom was given authority by Christ, affirmed their testimonies in writing the New Testament (and Peter even calls Paul’s writings Scripture in 2 Peter 3:16). And when compared to that which we know to be Revelation, the writings of Joseph Smith are seen to be in contradiction to what we already have. And since God is not in opposition to Himself, and He does not contradict Himself, we are then only left with the conclusion that Smith is not giving genuine revelation.

As to whether additional revelation to clarify doctrine and unify the church is necessary, to this I can only say that I would ask, “Where was this needed group for 1800 years prior to the coming of Smith?” The church existed from the time of Christ to the time of Smith without any prophets to maintain its consistency and doctrinal stability. And while I will certainly grant that there was division in Christendom over issues of doctrine (the Protestant Reformation, the Eastern Orthodox division), and denominations abound, there is still a strong sense of unity within the Body of Christ, even across denominational lines. Across denominational lines we still see foundational teachings like the eternality of God, the sinlessness of Christ, the nature of the Trinity, the fact that salvation is fully and completely based upon the work of Christ. There are disagreements about issues, yes, but as Augustine said, “In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things love.” I love my spiritual brothers in the pentecostal church, the presbyterian church, and in the baptist church, etc. I have preached at many of their churches, all the while still disagreeing with them on some issues, but sharing a common bond of belief in the Bible, and in God and Christ. Mormonism, by adding to the Bible, and teaching doctrines contrary to what it clearly teaches, is not a denomination. It is founded and reliant upon the teachings of Joseph Smith, a man whose prophetic designation must be accepted as a part of faith.

Finally, as to the quote from the Book of Mormon, he mentions the gift of speaking with tongues. This was not a gift in the Old Testament, but in the New Testament (a gift, I would argue, was for the demonstration that the Gospel had gone from one people and language to the people and languages of the whole world through the preaching of the apostles). As such, if the argument stands to reason that “God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and in him there is no variableness neither shadow of changing” is meant to say that God’s management of His people is ALWAYS the same, then He could not have introduced the gift of tongues because it had not been there before. That would be tantamount to saying “because God sent Jesus in one generation, He would have to continue sending Jesus in every generation, if He did this one thing at this one time, and He never changes.” You see, this understanding of God is illogical.

What it actually means when it says that “God does not change” is that God has no essential change in and of Himself. God was, is and always will be God, Lord and sovereign of all. Yet, God does manage mankind according to man’s condition. He interjects into mankind’s condition as He sees fit, according to His will and purpose. Man’s condition in the garden was innocent, so God dealt with Him face to face. Afterward, he was sinner, so God is separate from Him. Now, man is redeemed, and God is connected with Him through the redeemer who is Christ. Miracles, signs and wonders are seen throughout Scripture as accompanying the works of prophets and apostles, particularly those who were about the business of writing Scripture, God’s perfect revelation of Himself. This does not stand to reason then that God must continue all of these things, such as prophetic announcements, into perpetuity. We have His revelation of Himself.
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