1,200 California Pastors Agree To Reopen May 31 In Defiance Of Stay-At-Home Order
More than 1,200 California pastors say they will resume in-person services on May 31 in defiance of Gov. Gavin Newsomâ€™s stay-at-home order to slow the spread of the new coronavirus.
Newsom has gradually allowed some businesses to reopen as the stateâ€™s number of virus-related hospitalizations has flattened. But churches are still banned, along with hair salons and sporting events. Newsom said Monday churches could reopen in weeks, not months.
But many churches are tired of waiting. Wednesday, a lawyer representing a church in Lodi that has sued Newsom said more than 1,200 pastors have signed a â€śdeclaration of essentialityâ€ť that announces their plan to reopen on May 31 while observing physical distancing and other precautions....
There are a very few brethren and sisters here who post fairly regularly, who generally make a point of denouncing the celebration of both Christmas and Easter as being unwarranted from scripture and therefore disobedience to God whom they love.
But instead of receiving the message, the other believers are arguing, some of them so vehemently, that even I am tempted away from my biblical position and joining the ranks of the "falling away" Christians, which leads to apostasy. Am I serious? Yes, I am serious. Who wants hassle? It is much easier to be politically correct and go with the flow, just let it all happen and wash over you, and go down with the best of them. Bite the dust, what's wrong with that? Have an easy life, don't rock the boat. If the church goes liberal, just go with it, don't fight spiritual battles, you know how hard it is.
BTW the Christmas debate this year is fast approaching, and I hope everyone is preparing for it and getting your arguments ready. I realise the promoters do not have a leg to stand on, but you will still argue, as you do every year. But know this, there is NO ChristMass in heaven EVER, for it is an invention of carnal man.
Bro US, thank you brother and I hope your connection is restored soon.
I think my illustration of 10th Baptist Church explained my meaning. In 1898 the majority were believers, in 2008 the majority were nominal Christians. This is why they have a female pastor, a worship rock band, they never sing psalms, they have a Christmas tree in God's House, they have a candle-lit service, following the Catholics.
Where did it go wrong? It was the genuine Christians who went wrong, in permitting things not warranted in the word of God.
Imagine brother, if you were alive in the 16th century, when the world was in spiritual darkness. If someone came by and told you about the darkness, you would argue and argue with them. But we praise God for those men who persevered and brought about the Reformation, destroying Catholic domination.
We are living in days of the most awful spiritual darkness once again. People can live in the UK for a lifetime and never ever hear the gospel. It's a fact. And where is the obedience from churches who claim to be the remnant? It is almost non-existent. On-fire Christians despair of joining a church so they form their own church and get censured for it.
Correct me if I am wrong, you seem to characterize with a wide brush current day believers with Revelation 3:17.Â Â Your warnings against growing apostasy are onÂ Â a site where people who come here listen to godly sermons, books, music, podcasts, readings, etc.Â Â I would venture that would not be something those who are complacent or unconverted would do for the most part.Â Â Remember we are the audience to whom you speak.Â Â Maybe you could make a clearer distinction between addressing so called Christianity and those who fall under the condemnation of Titus 1:16 and genuine blood bought believers.Â Â Thanks
Well enough John and thank you for your kind words.
My issue has to do with not the tares, not the so called Christianity but actual believers in the Lord.Â Â Ones who are by the terms of Philippians 1:6 are a work in progress.Â Â We all have areas in which the work of mortification needs to be exercised more diligently.Â Â None of us can say that we have attainedÂ Â (Philippians 3:12-16)but we all need to press on in our walk with God.Â Â Thank God He works in us both to will and to do after HIs good pleasure in conforming us to the image of our precious Lord Jesus Christ!Â Â Thank God He remembers our frame that we are but dust and will abundantly pardon our transgressions.Â Â May we all desire that sin has neither root nor fruit in our lives realizing that there will always be a fight against the world the flesh and devil.
Dr. Tim wrote: As for me, until you repent of your wickedness, my treatment of you will be in accordance with Romans 16:17, â€ťNow I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.â€ť
This is indeed good news. Not that you make a terrible and grievous mistake and tell lies about me; this is a great shame for you, and will not be conducive to God blessing you but rather chastisement. At least I hope it be chastisement because that indicates at least that you are his child and therefore will always have chastisement until the peaceable fruit of righteousness appears.
No it is good news because the more you go on with this, the more you will get bitter towards me, which thing the Lord will not allow, because he cares about you and wants you free of burdens and cares. Therefore if you just put me on ignore, it is the lesser of two evils and there is a chance you will recover your equilibrium enough to post here without angst or psychological manipulation of the saints.
BTW, you must take repentance seriously and stop playing Christian games with doctrine, as you are wont to do in the IFB circuit.
You want to see a liar, John? Then you neednâ€™t look in my direction, for â€śThou art the man.â€ť Furthermore, you presume to attempt show others the way to live when your own life, characterized by your frequent railings and your pompous pontificating, are no more representative of the mind of Christ than Peterâ€™s denial of Him after Gethsemane. You say you welcome rebuke, but when you receive it you invariably deflect the attention back to the other party and say, in essence, â€śIâ€™m fine. My attitude is fine. My bullying of others is fine. My whole life, being and outlook are fine, fine, fine.â€ť Now John go ahead with your juvenile way of saying, â€śI know you are, but what am I?â€ť As for me, until you repent of your wickedness, my treatment of you will be in accordance with Romans 16:17, â€ťNow I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.â€ť I invited you to repent, you steadfastly refuse, so adios, outlaw. You may fire at will, Gridley, and demonstrate what a fine ensample to the flock you are.
What is happening to 10 Rivers baptist Church? It is falling away.
The tares will outnumber the wheat. It will continue to fall away, but Christians will still be present, and they will be church members.
Eventually there will be a great falling away, as we have seen in these threads for many years, where churches have bit the dust, and can no longer be called churches but apostates. And are there Christians who attend these apostate churches? Sure there is. I myself have rescued people from such churches, and I dread to think of them still there, still babes in Christ, still needing milk, never doing anything for the kingdom, such a waste of a life.
Jesus came to bring life and life more abundantly - John 10:10.
Have a look around, as Frank did, and see what you see in the church. Anything to write home about? Surely there is something, somewhere?
BTW, thank you Frank. You have also seen with your eyes.
Now brother, you know I love the brethren because I have passed from death to life. Brethren cannot be lost, because the work of Jesus is finished. But brethren can be lost to the work of God he calls them to. They miss out, lose rewards, but scrape into heaven, just making it. They fell asleep at the wheel, needed a warning.
Unprofitable Servant wrote: John, thanks for your response. I believe youâ€™ll search in vain for me saying you shouldnâ€™t warn against apostasy or even the brethren against sin.
In short let us say that you should be against apostasy but the group that make up those people are not Christians and my point was about how you paint Christianity not how you address the unregenerate.
Also are you saying that in this forum there are many apostates that need to be warned? This is the location of your posts after all
Brother, your points in order:
1. Thank you, I accept that.
2. This is where limited characters makes life difficult. I can only say so much, and then fellow believers misunderstand and think I am talking about them.
Imagine the 10 Rivers Baptist Church founded in 1898. Over the years it has had a mixture of wheat and tares. Some the tares are church members. Is it apostate yet?
The years roll by, and the influence of the tares affects church policy. A rock band takes over the worship. Is it now apostate?
It changes the KJV for the Living Bible. Is it now apostate?
Remember there is a mixture of wheat and tares, as in every church in the land.
Unprofitable Servant wrote: John, thanks for your response. 1. I believe youâ€™ll search in vain for me saying you shouldnâ€™t warn against apostasy or even the brethren against sin. 2. In short let us say that you should be against apostasy but the group that make up those people are not Christians and my point was about how you paint Christianity not how you address the unregenerate 3. Also are you saying that in this forum there are many apostates that need to be warned? This is the location of your posts after all.
Dr Tim writes, "Why do you get your hackles up and become defensive and try to deflect the attention to others every time you receive criticism or even when someone disagrees with you?"
Ahem, Dr Tim, you really do need to cease telling lies; it does not go down well with the Lord.
Please note that Bro US has offered me some very constructive criticism, which is not designed to curse but bless. This is the right way forward, and you ought learn from him, even if you choose not to learn from me. This is your biggest problem, you are unteachable. Well, begin the revolution today, hearken to either Bro US or myself and put into practice what you learn.
Bro US, 3 excellent points. I will answer each one later....
John, thanks for your response. I believe youâ€™ll search in vain for me saying you shouldnâ€™t warn against apostasy or even the brethren against sin.
In short let us say that you should be against apostasy but the group that make up those people are not Christians and my point was about how you paint Christianity not how you address the unregenerate
Also are you saying that in this forum there are many apostates that need to be warned? This is the location of your posts after all
No one bashes our current church movements more than me. I have never understood why some can be so satisfied with movements that are so politically correct. I am the first to admit that not all churches are like that, but every one that I have visited in the last few years were. And, I live in a very populated area.
Not all, but many pastors are simply hirelings. That means they are more interested in their salary, health insurance and retirement benefits. They consider success to the numbers they have in their pew; not their service to Christ.
You are very fortunate to have such a small and cohesive group to worship with.
Note: this comment was not aimed at any poster except John!
Dr. Tim wrote: â€ś...Why do you get your hackles up and become defensive and try to deflect the attention to others every time you receive criticism or even when someone disagrees with you?â€ť More deflection, John. True to form, as always. So which was itâ€”sarcasm, or outright lying, when you invited us to rebuke you and urge you to repent? Clearly you were not being sincere. Subtil as the serpent are you.
Doc, when you preach the gospel and exhort men to believe on Christ, I hope you don't go around each one, applying IFB pressure, coercing a response. Learn from me, bro, and I will teach you this.
1 Corinthians 3:6-7 KJV (6)Â I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. (7)Â So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
You may exhort me to repent, and I welcome that if I need to. But you must needs remember that it is the Spirit who convicts of sin and works repentance, and Christ is our sanctification and redemption. Enforcing a pseudo-repentance is a technique used by Catholics and cults. In Christianity, you plant the seed in a heart, maybe someone else will water it, but you must depend on God to bring forth the fruit.
â€ś...Why do you get your hackles up and become defensive and try to deflect the attention to others every time you receive criticism or even when someone disagrees with you?â€ť More deflection, John. True to form, as always. So which was itâ€”sarcasm, or outright lying, when you invited us to rebuke you and urge you to repent? Clearly you were not being sincere. Subtil as the serpent are you.
Dr. Tim wrote: As I said, â€śWe will soon see if you meant what you said, or if your words were completely empty.â€ť Prophecy fulfilled.
Dr Tim, I sincerely hope you feel better now, because I don't like it when people are all hot and bothered and become point-scorers. There is no future in it, only bitterness and coldness of heart.
My desire for you bro is that you realise you have left your first love, and return to it, seeking to bear the fruit of the Spirit and loving one another, as Jesus said.
I realise that legalism is a part of your makeup, being an IFB, but you may be set free even from that, if once you realise the law is fully dealt with at the cross, and all your sins were paid for, past, present and future.
Are you "in Christ"? Then you are complete in him, right from the get-go. Can this be improved? No, the work is finished, completed, perfect. Jesus has done it all. Do not believe those who would bring you into condemnation, but stand up for Jesus and Justification by Faith Alone in Christ Alone to God's Glory Alone.
Do you wish to hurt me?
If you hurt me, you are hurting Christ. Acts 9:4
Observe your actions and think carefully. Are you behaving like a Christian or a heathen?
John UK wrote: â€śBTW folks, I don't know how you expect me to grow if you keep patting me on the head and being nice. I far prefer to be rebuked and exhorted, told to repent of my sins, to cast off my besetting sins, to strive after holiness by God's grace, and many other such things which are most biblical and necessary. Thank you.â€ť John, one of the following is true: 1. You are being sarcastic, knowing full well that you actually despise being rebuked. 2. You are simply lying to make yourself appear â€śspiritual.â€ť 3. You really meant what you said. If this is the case, then why do you get your hackles up and become defensive and try to deflect the attention to others every time you receive criticism or even when someone disagrees with you? If you were really the humble, self-effacing servant you make yourself out to be, donâ€™t you think that occasionally you would admit that you are wrong and the other person is right? IOW, John, I am accepting your invitation to rebuke you and urge you to repent of your besetting sin of deep-seated pride. We will soon see if you meant what you said, or if your words were completely empty.