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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  5/31/2020
WEDNESDAY, APR 8, 2020  |  37 comments
Bethel Church shifts to virtual healing rooms
In a move promoted as faith-filled and wise, Bethel Church, the 12,000-member megachurch in Redding, California, which also runs a school of supernatural ministry, has shifted their popular healing rooms to online events weeks after suspending their faith healing ministry at hospitals due to the new coronavirus.

Now most of their healing is related to stress from the virus.

“As the local and global community come together to address the Coronavirus (COVID-19) situation, Bethel Church is seeking to promote health across the community. In moments like these, we do not partner with fear, but choose to lean into faith and hope, as well as practicing wisdom and safety,” the church announced on March 20. ...


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www.christianpost.com

Gift of tongues for today?
  START  
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· Page 1 ·  Found: 37 user comment(s)
News Item4/17/2020 2:44 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
James Thomas wrote:
....
Blessings to you John.
And blessings to you also, St James.
37

News Item4/16/2020 7:01 PM
James Thomas | Fla  Find all comments by James Thomas
John UK wrote:
I would not have considered the ability to refute those who preached salvation by law as a visible sign.
But if you regard the signs as "God working with them", confirming his word through the miraculous and visible signs, then that does make sense. cf. John 3:2
Sorry for my delay, but I will wrap it up by saying there are many mentions of pretty much the same through the Scriptures. I will share a few more and let you read the context. The They and their is always referring to the same people group.

Isa 3:12
O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

That is who Paul is referring to here.

Rom 3:13... their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

And the OT as well....

Deut 32:17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not.

These would be the same devils spoken in Mark 16.

Deut 32:28 For they are a nation void of counsel, neither is there any understanding in them.

Deut 32:33
Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.

Blessings to you John.

36

News Item4/14/2020 2:20 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
St James, I thank you for your efforts, but please read again the context.

Mark 16:15-20 KJV
(15)  And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
(16)  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
(17)  And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
(18)  They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
(19)  So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
(20)  And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

These signs are very powerful, and evident to those who see them. For example, if a person is miraculously healed there is no denying it. But I would not have considered the ability to refute those who preached salvation by law as a visible sign.

But if you regard the signs as "God working with them", confirming his word through the miraculous and visible signs, then that does make sense. cf. John 3:2

35

News Item4/13/2020 9:30 PM
James Thomas | Fla  Find all comments by James Thomas
John,
Hopefully I've articulated myself well enough in answering your question of what Jesus meant for a believer take up a serpent.
From the prophets, I see that The short answer to your question is the Jews VOICE of doctrines that taught self righteous works of the law (Rom. 10:3) which was nothing but lies spoken in a stammering tongue (Aramaic) and would be "taken up" and proven error by believers now provided with new tongues which they did speak (Greek) of God's Word published and preached.

Jer. 46:22 said their VOICE shall go like a serpent.

So it would be their VOICE of lies which would be taken up which is likened to a serpent.

Remember Matt 13:34 said**without a parable spake he not unto them**:

Parable- a comparing, comparison of one thing with another, likeness, similitude.

Isa. 9:14 Therefore the LORD will cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day.

Isa. 9:15 The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.

Rev 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were **like unto serpents**, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

Isa. 9:16 For the leaders of this people {Rom 10:3} cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destr

34

News Item4/13/2020 1:54 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
James Thomas wrote:
I think that's a fair question John. When time permits I will reply.
Thank you James.
33

News Item4/12/2020 8:41 PM
James Thomas | Fla  Find all comments by James Thomas
I think that's a fair question John. When time permits I will reply.
32

News Item4/12/2020 1:53 PM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
James Thomas wrote:
Why would it be a literal snake in Mark 16 when we have evidence before and after Mark from Scripture defining serpents as being figurative of Pharisees/Saducees and their poison being their teachings which killed souls(see Matt. 23:15-33)?
Mark 16:18 GNB
(18)  if they pick up snakes or drink any poison, they will not be harmed; they will place their hands on sick people, and these will get well."

St James, in your passage, Jesus refers to these people as scribes and Pharisees many times, and once as serpents and vipers.

What I want to know is, "What does it mean to pick up a scribe or a Pharisee?"

31

News Item4/12/2020 11:24 AM
James Thomas | Fla  Find all comments by James Thomas
Jer 46:2 Also her hired men are in the midst of her like fatted bullocks; for they also are turned back, and are fled away together: they did not stand, because the day of their calamity was come upon them, and the time of their visitation.

Jer 46:22 The voice thereof shall go *like a serpent*;

Their voice is the voice of hired men or hirelings (see John 10 for a more clear definition.) and is figuratively described as a serpent.

Psalm 58:4
Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;

Verse 1 asks....o ye judge uprightly, O ye sons of men?

No they didn't. The instead spoke lies.

Rev 9:19
For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were **like unto serpents**, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

Their tails are likened unto serpents. Power in their mouth, not God's Word.

Honest question.

Why would it be a literal snake in Mark 16 when we have evidence before and after Mark from Scripture defining serpents as being figurative of Pharisees/Saducees and their poison being their teachings which killed souls(see Matt. 23:15-33)?

30

News Item4/12/2020 5:58 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Regarding the comment from Dr Tim...

Philippians 2:25-27 KJV
(25)  Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants.
(26)  For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick.
(27)  For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.

Paul did not heal him.

2 Timothy 4:20 KJV
(20)  Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.

Paul clearly did not heal him.

I drew up a graph many years ago, starting at creation and ending with the present day. Along the graph I entered in where a healing is recorded in the Bible by the Holy Spirit. For 4,000 years there is hardly a blip, just a few isolated healings. Then there is a massive surge, over a period of three years when the Lord ministered. I use the word massive without exaggeration. Then, after the resurrection and ascension, there is a large number of healings by the apostles and some other leading disciples. And then there seems to be a tailing off, as if these things were coming to an end.

29

News Item4/12/2020 2:54 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
James Thomas wrote:
...
Blessings to you John
Blessings to you too, James.
28

News Item4/11/2020 10:46 PM
Dr. Tim | Way Down Yonder  Find all comments by Dr. Tim
There was never a time when all Christians could perform miracles. If there had been, the disciples wouldn’t have sent for Peter when Dorcas died. The snakes in Mark 16 are just that: snakes. Paul handled one, albeit involuntarily, without harm. There was a purpose for that. People saw the power of God and got saved. Nowadays when people handle serpents and speak in “tongues,” they only do it to show off, to demonstrate to their cronies how “spiritual” they are. Nobody gets saved, so they are not following the pattern set in scripture. God can and does perform miracles today in answer to prayer, but the days of apostolic sign gifts ended when the last apostle died, and apparently were waning even before that. Otherwise why would Paul write, “Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick”?
27

News Item4/11/2020 7:18 PM
James Thomas | Fla  Find all comments by James Thomas
Interesting thoughts St. John.
The more I read through Scripture the more I see the laying of hands as being not a literal action of a physical touch but a literal communication of the gospel which Paul said resided IN Timothy and that due to what?
The putting on of his hands.

2 Timothy 1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.

Rom 10:17 says faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Fyi, I really had no notion one way or the other concerning Mark 16 when we started, I just never had taken time to look into it. I'm still not settled on it but the evidence seems to lead to a figurative understanding on "laying of hands".

Need to look more into it though. Thanks for the intriguing topic suggestion.

Blessings to you John

26

News Item4/11/2020 4:59 PM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Saint James, there is such a thing as spiritual power, and it can be either good or evil. There are spiritual powers that can work independently of men, and there are spiritual powers that work with men.

In this world in which we live there are angels and demons (devils). These are both spiritual powers. And then there is the Holy Ghost, who represents God upon the earth, being the only member of the Godhead present on planet earth; he is the ultimate spiritual power. And then there is God's enemy, Satan, who was thrust down to earth for insubordination, who is the most powerful of the fallen angels, who were sent down with him.

Some men harness the forces of evil, and can cast spells, cause havoc. Others are possessed by devils and are extremely strong, cannot be tamed, driven mad. Others are religious and are deceived by lying spirits, who are extremely dangerous in this world, countering the gospel and hindering wherever they can.

And then there are others (Christians) who have been given the spiritual gift of healing and/or miracles. This resides within them for their lifetime, for the gifts and calling of God are without repentance (God never changes his mind).

For the apostles only? Or for others also?

Tomorrow bro.

25

News Item4/11/2020 4:43 PM
James Thomas | Fla  Find all comments by James Thomas
John UK wrote:
Peter said he had no money; however he gave him something even better - complete healing.
The thing is through...Peter said it wasn't his own power.

as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?

But does describe the source here in this verse which speaks beyond a physical healing.

Verse 16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

So if we circle back to Mark 16, we agreed that the verses grammatically cause so many problems of interpretation because it points to those that believe. Seems to me that's due to a misunderstanding of what the act of laying of hands means. I'd agree with Docs and QC's thoughts if that was strictly to be understood in a literal sense but there's just too much figurative language elsewhere that paints a different picture. Here's yet another example...

2 Timothy 1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.

Paul said the gift of God was in Timothy by the putting on of Paul's hands. Preached the Gospel or a magic touch?

24

News Item4/11/2020 12:11 PM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
James Thomas wrote:
What healed him? What made him strong?
James, note...

Mark 5:30 KJV
(30)  And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes?

Luke 6:19 KJV
(19)  And the whole multitude sought to touch him: for there went virtue out of him, and healed them all.

Luke 8:46 KJV
(46)  And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.

The word virtue in each of these two instances is the same as power, miraculous power, and this power was inherent in the Lord's body.

The Lord gave power to the twelve apostles, so that they could accomplish the same tasks with an inherent power.

Matthew 10:1 KJV
(1)  And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

These men did not ask God to heal men; they had the power given them to heal others and cast out devils.

The man in question in Acts 3:3-5 looked upon the apostles hoping for alms, but Peter said he had no money; however he gave him something even better - complete healing.

23

News Item4/11/2020 11:08 AM
James Thomas  Find all comments by James Thomas
I don't discount the physical but lets not ignore the rest of the text and its focus on this man.

Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?

13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

14But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

15And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

16And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

I think most believe Peter was talking about himself but that's not true. He was talking about the same man in Acts 3:6.

What healed him? What made him strong?

22

News Item4/11/2020 10:39 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
James Thomas wrote:
I forgot to mention. I would think Peter....when he said such as I have, I give unto thee....it was what was given in Acts 2. And described here in Acts 2:41.
"they that gladly received his word"
James, we know that Peter physically healed this man by some power within himself. There is no mention of him preaching or giving the Spirit.

James Thomas wrote:
How does one receive the Holy Ghost? Rom 10:17 right? Not A Physical touch but preaching of the gospel?
James, I believe the work of the Spirit is diverse.

There is the quickening of the Spirit, whereby dead souls are brought to spiritual life. There is the conviction of sin by the same Spirit. There is the enlightenment of the Spirit, by which a sinner will understand the good news of the gospel. There is the giving of faith by the Spirit (which you already mentioned). There is the sealing of the Spirit, which is the guarantee of an eternal inheritance, and which comes subsequent to the sinner believing on Christ for his salvation. Ephesians 1:13-14.

21

News Item4/11/2020 8:48 AM
James Thomas  Find all comments by James Thomas
Actually it was Acts 2:41.
20

News Item4/11/2020 8:46 AM
James Thomas | Fla  Find all comments by James Thomas
I forgot to mention. I would think Peter....when he said such as I have, I give unto thee....it was what was given in Acts 2. And described here in Acts 2:38.

"they that gladly received his word"

19

News Item4/11/2020 8:17 AM
James Thomas | Fla  Find all comments by James Thomas
No worries John. This is a tough topic.

Something else to consider.

In Acts 8 we see what is the result of laying hands.

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

How does one receive the Holy Ghost? Rom 10:17 right? Not
A Physical touch but preaching of the gospel?

18
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