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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  8/24/2019
FRIDAY, JUN 21, 2019  |  73 comments
Christian magistrate who said children do best with a mother and father loses appeal
A Christian magistrate who was removed from the judiciary after saying that it was in the best interests of children to have a mother and father has lost his appeal at an employment tribunal.

Richard Page was removed from his post as magistrate by then Lord Chancellor Michael Gove and Lord Chief Justice, Lord Thomas, in 2015 after serving in the role for 15 years.

He later also lost his position as a non-executive director of the Kent and Medway NHS Trust after reiterating the view on BBC Radio 4.

Mr Page appealed his dismissal on the grounds of discrimination and victimisation because of his Christian faith. ...


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The Coming Final Persecution
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· Page 1 ·  Found: 73 user comment(s)
News Item6/24/19 6:26 AM
James Thomas | Fla  Find all comments by James Thomas
John UK wrote:
I'm sorry James, I can't make head nor tail of what you are saying.
It's okay. It seems I've complicated the simple. When God said

Deut. 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart,

I believe that to be the same thing spoken in Jer. 31:33 which is the New covenant.

I believe the many "firsts" I made mention signify something new. Namely the New Covenant...as the old one was on the way out. It had to have a beginning somewhere.

Hebrews 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

That's it in a nutshell. There's obviously more but the best I can paint the picture right now.

You get the last word as I believe I'm done Bro.

73

News Item6/24/19 1:57 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
James Thomas wrote:
Isa. 62 says HE would simply call his servants by another name so obviously there were believers before the new name was given.
I'm going to be tied up for the rest of the day but read through The context around each of the verses.
Here is one of the citations in Romans 15 which Paul gives to teach of the same event we are discussing, search out the others too.
Rom 15:12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
Source prophecy:
Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
When Paul cites the OT I understand it as an direction to read that citation and its context so as I can better understand what He is saying. I have come to think that is what he meant in 1 Cor. 2:4 as a demonstration of the Spirit and of power.
Or as we know it, Sola Scriptura.
I'm sorry James, I can't make head nor tail of what you are saying.
72

News Item6/23/19 10:03 AM
James Thomas | Fla  Find all comments by James Thomas
John UK wrote:
James, are you saying that the believers in Christ whom Paul was on his way to persecute and put to death in Damascus and other places, were not actually believers, but sort of nominal believers, almost in the covenant
Isa. 62 says HE would simply call his servants by another name so obviously there were believers before the new name was given.

I'm going to be tied up for the rest of the day but read through The context around each of the verses.

Here is one of the citations in Romans 15 which Paul gives to teach of the same event we are discussing, search out the others too.

Rom 15:12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

Source prophecy:

Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

When Paul cites the OT I understand it as an direction to read that citation and its context so as I can better understand what He is saying. I have come to think that is what he meant in 1 Cor. 2:4 as a demonstration of the Spirit and of power.
Or as we know it, Sola Scriptura.

71

News Item6/23/19 6:41 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
James Thomas wrote:
It was the ushering in of this covenant which Paul was the first to receive the grace under the new covenant terms for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
James, are you saying that the believers in Christ whom Paul was on his way to persecute and put to death in Damascus and other places, were not actually believers, but sort of nominal believers, almost in the covenant but not quite, almost saved but not quite? And that they would be dependent on Paul's conversion to help them into a better place?

James, I have great puzzlement at your words.

70

News Item6/23/19 6:23 AM
James Thomas | Fla  Find all comments by James Thomas
Isa 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

What name would his servants now be called?

Isaiah 62:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.

Acts 11:26 And the disciples were called Christians *first* in Antioch.

Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, "who first trusted in Christ."

Those who first trusted in Christ would receive the new name given..."Christian"

It was the ushering in of this covenant which Paul was the first to receive the grace under the new covenant terms for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Another nuance of the same event...

Deut. 32:21 I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

Acts 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy,

69

News Item6/23/19 3:27 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
James Thomas wrote:
...
1 Timothy 1:16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that *in me first* Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.

Reading that verse, Can we agree that 1 Tim. 1 speaks of Paul's conversion which said another way was born again of Christ?

Yes we can, James.

But if you are now going to say that Paul was the first one to be born again, that is obviously not true. I don't know how you could imagine it to be the case.

But carry on, and tell me where you want to go with this. Thank you.

1 Timothy 1:15-16 KJV
(15)  This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
(16)  Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

68

News Item6/22/19 9:22 PM
James Thomas | Fla  Find all comments by James Thomas
I appreciate the reply and I do see how it can be used in the manner you suggested.

1 Timothy 1:16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that *in me first* Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.

Many times Paul makes reference to this pattern which grace is given by Jesus Christ(1 Cor. 1:4).

Gal. 1:6 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and ***called me by his grace***,

Phil 3:17 Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern.

Phil 4:9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

1 Cor. 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Reading that verse, Can we agree that 1 Tim. 1 speaks of Paul's conversion which said another way was born again of Christ?

Then there's also Paul who made another "first" claim along with a group. A group who first trusted in Christ.

Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, "who first trusted in Christ."

67

News Item6/22/19 5:46 PM
Dr. Tim | Land of Cotton  Find all comments by Dr. Tim
I do disagree. I have used scripture. I believe the preconceived notions are on your side; you believe they are on mine. Obviously we are getting nowhere with this discussion, so let’s just drop it. It is no doubt doing more harm than good.
66

News Item6/22/19 5:07 PM
ladybug  Find all comments by ladybug
Tim

You would do well to ask God to show you your errors- go into His word, use scripture to interpret scripture, look into the Greek and Hebrew if necessary, and not overlooking the verses that oppose your preconceived notions. Do word studies on 'all' and 'world', remember context matters.

When we shut off our minds to truth, we no longer grow in the grace and knowledge of Him.
If you disagree with what has been presented, use His word to do so.

65

News Item6/22/19 4:45 PM
Dr. Tim | Land of Cotton  Find all comments by Dr. Tim
“The Holy Spirit wrote the Scriptures, go to him to get their meaning and you will not be misled...”
Why should we go to the Holy Spirit for the explanation of scriptures when we have people right here who are always willing to tell us what they “really” mean?
64

News Item6/22/19 3:49 PM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Okay James, I'll pass on that first one, and go to:-

1 Timothy 1:16 KJV
(16)  Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

"in me first" what is he saying?

Well the first thing he is saying is that the cause he obtained mercy was the fact of his being the chief of sinners (v15). Jesus Christ, in saving Paul, commended his patience towards even the very worst of sinners. In a similar way, God commended his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

The reason Jesus wanted to commend his patience was for the benefit of sinners who would hear about Paul's conversion, especially the really bad persons, who may imagine themselves hopeless, but hearing of Paul's salvation, would be encouraged to come to Christ, believing on him.

I don't think Paul is saying that he is the first convert to Christianity, as though that event on the Damascus road marked a point in history.

Gospel preachers love the text, especially if they are preaching in a prison, or young offenders institute. Once they know both great apostles were jailbirds, they listen better.

63

News Item6/22/19 2:44 PM
James Thomas | Fla  Find all comments by James Thomas
John UK wrote:
From your statement it looks as though you are saying, "By means of the Spirit, Jesus puts his faith in us, to enable us to believe."
Thats It!

His Blood!

1 Tim. 1:14...faith and love which IS IN Christ Jesus.

Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Deut. 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart,

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts;

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant...

The difference in the New Covenant promise is not that it is a different covenant but the fulfillment (Christ’s righteousness, gospel) of the covenant’s written on hearts of flesh where in the first covenant it was entrusted to the Levites and Jews and they didn’t teach it (Mal. 2:4-8).

So back to my question.

Something significant occurred to Paul which said "In me first" in 1 Timothy 1:16.

What do you think it was?

62

News Item6/22/19 2:05 PM
ladybug  Find all comments by ladybug
“Discernment is not a matter of simply knowing the difference between right and wrong, rather it is knowing the difference between right and almost right. I would not give a penny for your “love of the truth” if it is not accompanied with a hearty hatred of error. The best interpreter of a book is generally the man who wrote it. The Holy Spirit wrote the Scriptures, go to him to get their meaning and you will not be misled and if there be anything in the church to which you belong which is contrary to the inspired Word, leave that church.”

– Charles Haddon Spurgeon

61

News Item6/22/19 1:40 PM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
James Thomas wrote:
It wasn't a typo John. Take another look. 1 Timothy 1:12.
Here is what you said, James.

"He puts His faith in us by means of the Holy Spirit to enable us (1 Tim 1:12) to believe."

1 Timothy 1:12 KJV
(12)  And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

I'm sorry James, I do not quite see what you are seeing.

It looks more as though the Lord Jesus counted Paul faithful, rather than Jesus putting faith into Paul.

From your statement it looks as though you are saying, "By means of the Spirit, Jesus puts his faith in us, to enable us to believe."

Is it that the "enabled me" (v12) in your mind is "enabled me to believe"? I don't think it is saying that.

Besides which, if we had the faith of the Lord Jesus, we would all have the same faith in terms of power and authority. But the words of Jesus himself discount that: "If ye had faith as a grain of a mustard seed...," and the disciples asking him, "Lord, increase our faith."

60

News Item6/22/19 1:17 PM
James Thomas | Fla  Find all comments by James Thomas
It wasn't a typo John. Take another look. 1 Timothy 1:12. You gave 2:12.

Something significant occurred to Paul which said "In me first" in 1 Timothy 1:16.

What do you think it was?

59

News Item6/22/19 12:31 PM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
Humbled wrote:
John UK, your last paragraph of your comment hit the proverbial nail on the head. Thank you for your post.
Lord bless, Humbled.
58

News Item6/22/19 11:23 AM
Humbled  Find all comments by Humbled
Ladybug,
57

News Item6/22/19 11:21 AM
Humbled  Find all comments by Humbled
John UK wrote:
Thank you Humbled for your post, and your great love in seeking graciously to get someone to change their self-destructive course. Older Christians always ought be always listened to, when they relate their Pilgrim's experience along the narrow road which leads to life. Many times, although much of this is related within the pages of Pilgrim's Progress, lessons are not learned by any other way than sad experience; it is in the nature of young ones to always think themselves correct. I myself went through certain chastisements from the Lord through a similar sort of thing you mentioned (it can become bigotry) and it took a long time to realise it, because "standing up for the truth" seems so valiant, like Mr Valiant-For-Truth in Bunyan's book.
But truth without a corresponding graciousness of life, and full of good works, and love for God and neighbour, can result in God saying, "I hate your sacrifices and burnt offerings", which, in essence, is, well.....
John UK, your last paragraph of your comment hit the proverbial nail on the head. Thank you your post.
56

News Item6/22/19 9:48 AM
ladybug  Contact via emailFind all comments by ladybug
Humbled,

I did listen to your sermon recommendation by Don Bell, it was most excellent. I pray all will take time to give it a listen. I second the questions you put forth in your 11:08 pm comment.

55

News Item6/22/19 3:49 AM
John UK  Find all comments by John UK
James Thomas wrote:
We do not “put our faith in Christ” as so many seem to believe. He puts His faith in us by means of the Holy Spirit to enable us (1 Tim. 1:12) to believe. Biblical Faith is not the human ability to reason and make informed decisions.
James, a few things here. The first is, is 1 Tim 1:12 a typo? I looked up 1 Tim 2:12 and that came up with:

1 Timothy 2:12 KJV
(12)  But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

That is a great apostolic statement but obviously not the text you meant.

James I think you are well overboard on this. Faith is assuredly a persuasion. That is why Paul said:

2 Corinthians 5:11a KJV
(11)  Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;

Jesus also said to count the cost of discipleship. In other words, think very carefully before putting your hand to the plough. see Luke 14:25-33

James I think your faith = righteousness has come about because of your taking the Old English text of Romans 4:13 as though it were in today's English. Try reading it in different translations and get a consensus.

Sorry to be contrary, but if you wish to talk about it, I am willing, and we can discuss the word of God peaceably.

54
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