My own suspicion is that the New Perspective achieved popularity mainly because young Protestant ministers would rather talk about inclusion and breaking barriers than about the guilt of sin and the pointlessness of trying to erase it by a regimen of good deeds. That‚Äôs understandable. But surely the older message hasn‚Äôt lost its relevance.
Even in this permissive, materialist age, people go to extraordinary lengths to atone for their guilt. Consider the vast numbers of Americans who spend their days maniacally trying to prove their upright status in the eyes of secular deities‚ÄĒconspicuously announcing their support for enlightened causes, loudly denouncing bigotry and xenophobia, proclaiming their sympathy with the marginalized and their loyalty to ethically manufactured products. How delightful it might be to hear that salvation is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should virtue-signal....
I would add that Mormonism is of very recent invention, being invented by Joseph Smith in 1830. Do you believe that God allowed the whole of mankind, up until 1830, to be condemned, and miss out on the spirit paradise, and the three degrees of glory, because He chose to withhold very important information that we needed?
Smith practiced religious folk magic, and magic supernaturalism, such as divining, and searching for treasure by peering into a seer stone, etc. His parents and grandparents also claimed to be seers; saying they would have visions, and receive secret messages from God, etc. Unfortunately, young Joseph grew up around this sort of supernaturalism, and metaphysics that he took a big step further, later on, as a mass con, or which allowed him to eventually be deceived by Satan, or a very high ranking fallen angel, and invent Mormonism.
Consider this: Just as every other false religion, and cult, were invented in more recent years, save for Islam and Buddism, etc., so was Mormonism invented by a mere man around 1830, and just as every other false religion and cult is, Mormonism, according to God-breathed scripture, is fully anti-bible, anti-God, and anti-Christ, in all it teaches and believes.
Furthermore, Mosiah 10:32 says, ‚ÄúYea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.‚ÄĚ
So the question would be, have you denied yourself of all ungodliness? In deed, in your thoughts? Even one lustful thought would make you ineligible to ever receive the grace of elohim.
And you have to fulfill the greatest commandment, to love God with all your might, mind and strength, have you ever achieved this? If you‚Äôre honest you‚Äôll say ‚Äúno‚ÄĚ
Ephesians 2:8-9 says,‚ÄĚFor by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.‚ÄĚ
@Chris, howdy there. I‚Äôve studied Mormonism, I‚Äôve read The Great Apostasy, Lectures on Faith, Our Search for Happiness, etc. and even some of the Mormon Scriptures.
But you brought up some interesting things but I want to focus on one:
1. If you love me keep my commandments
This is true, if we truly have been born again then we will have a Spirit filled desire to worship the one true God. (Deut. 6:4, Isaiah 41-45)
But here Christianity and Mormonism is already at tension, here‚Äôs why. In Mormon theology there are 3 gods for this universe and there are an innumerable amount of other gods outside our universe. (Teachings of the prophet JS, pgs. 369-370)
Yet the Bible teaches that there is only one God (Gen. 1:1 Deut 6:4, Isaiah 41:4, Mark 12:29-30)
And this ties directly into the gospel because here‚Äôs what the LDS scriptures teach:
2Nephi 25:23 says, ‚ÄúFor we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.‚ÄĚ
Notice that you have to do all you can, if you‚Äôve ever neglected doing something (a good work, preaching the gospel of heavenly father, etc.) you then, according to LDS theology, cannot enter into glory...
There is 400 year gap between Malachi and Matthew in the Bible; there is no such gap in the Book of Mormon: Another Testament of the Lord Jesus Christ, which book begins in Old Testament times and moves right along into New Testament times, a smooth transition that bridges the two covenants beautifully together, and will convert the Jewish person to Christianity, Lord Jesus said "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 3 says, nobody gets into heaven without baptism, and John 6 clear, nobody gets in without the sacrament, Matthew 10:40 says the Lord only receives those who receive His servants, and at the end of Matthew, we are told to take the gospel to all nations, baptizing them in the name of the 3 different Persons in the Godhead; Romans 15:16 we are sanctified by the Holy Ghost, which gift happens only after baptism, see Acts 8:17, and nowhere in Bible does it ever say "just any church and just anyone can baptize you," yes, the grace is that we can all pray for the truth to come to us and we can all pray and sing and dance and marry and serve others, yet nobody can just start a church and preach without God giving that person authority and power and a new book of scripture (which new scripture was written in Old Testament times) is tangible proof.
3. This covenant is revealed in the gospel; first of all to Adam in the promise of salvation by the seed of the woman, and afterwards by farther steps, until the full discovery thereof was completed in the New Testament; and it is founded in that eternal covenant transaction that was between the Father and the Son about the redemption of the elect; and it is alone by the grace of this covenant that all the posterity of fallen Adam that ever were saved did obtain life and blessed immortality, man being now utterly incapable of acceptance with God upon those terms on which Adam stood in his state of innocency.
This third paragraph is most excellent and majestic in its putting forth of the truth of scripture, showing that the gospel of God's grace was first shown to Adam, and then by farther steps throughout the OT until the full revelation came in the NT, which we have today, God be praised.
This gospel truth is "founded in that eternal covenant transaction that was between the Father and the Son about the redemption of the elect", and it is this covenant which truly warms the heart and brings peace and joy in believing. It means that salvation is secure, and that, eternally. PTL and Amen.
1. The distance between God and the creature is so great, that although reasonable creatures do owe obedience to Him as their creator, yet they could never have attained the reward of life but by some voluntary condescension on God's part, which He hath been pleased to express by way of covenant.
2. Moreover, man having brought himself under the curse of the law by his fall, it pleased the Lord to make a covenant of grace, wherein He freely offers unto sinners life and salvation by Jesus Christ, requiring of them faith in Him, that they may be saved; and promising to give unto all those that are ordained unto eternal life, His Holy Spirit, to make them willing and able to believe.
These are the first two paragraphs of Chapter 7 in the 1689 Baptist confession of faith, which concerns The Covenant. I would have liked to have posted the third paragraph, which shows clearly what I have been trying to say, but there was insufficient space. However, when there is opportunity, I will post that also, and I hope Bros US and QC will be easier in their minds concerning what I said earlier. Thank you.
I'm going to say something now, and if anyone disagrees and thinks I am in error, please do say so. Note,
Galatians 3:15-17 GNB (15)¬† My friends, I am going to use an everyday example: when two people agree on a matter and sign an agreement, no one can break it or add anything to it. (16)¬† Now, God made his promises to Abraham and to his descendant. The scripture does not use the plural "descendants," meaning many people, but the singular "descendant," meaning one person only, namely, Christ. (17)¬† What I mean is that God made a covenant with Abraham and promised to keep it. The Law, which was given four hundred and thirty years later, cannot break that covenant and cancel God's promise.
Now we know, as new covenant people, that God was introducing in fairly clear terms, that he was dealing with Abraham "by promise" not "by works". When the law came in several hundred years later, that was incapable of annulling the promise, because a covenant cannot be added to or taken away from.
God was dealing with people in grace, which is the only option. And then,
Galatians 3:29 GNB (29)¬† If you belong to Christ, then you are the descendants of Abraham and will receive what God has promised.
Unprofitable Servant wrote: I am withholding some thoughts so as not to be so contrary John UK God sought out Adam after he fell, Adam tried to hide. Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. God stated in Deuteronomy 7 He chose Israel purely out of His love. Grace has always been part of the salvation that God offers.
No need to withhold, brother, nor QC either. I will explain in greater detail later, when I get back from fellowship meeting. But thank you both for your posts.
Firstly, spiritual death and the need of regeneration did not come in after the resurrection of our Saviour. It came in after the Fall of Adam.
Secondly, the biblical statement in Romans 3 that "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" cannot be limited to AD but also includes BC.
Thirdly, and thusly, Paul's "by grace are ye saved, through faith" is no new thing, as though he imagined the OT saints saved themselves and were justified by their works.
However, the OT saints never understood that; the way God was working was hidden from most of them, and still remains hidden today from many. The great doctrine was very, very gradually revealed, until the NT explosion of light.
Those are some of the passages, particularly Noah's grace, that came to mind, US. Thanks.
Since all have fallen short of the glory of God and God and His word do not change, then grace has to proceed thru the OT.
In fact, the only reason there is a universe at all after the Fall is grace. What an incredibly gracious Lord to sustain this universe with all its evil and destruction, including billions of people through their lives who have thumbed their noses at their marvelous Benefactor, without immediately bringing it all to an abrupt end. And that's just what they call "common grace." Then there are those whom He has saved...
Still, this is a difficult topic and you Brothers have been completely accurate in your descriptions. In many ways, the OT did seem to be a works based system that either led to judgement or blessing. In the midst, though, are the accounts of Job, Psalm 73, and others which reflected a system more consistent with the NT than a clean break of works then grace.
I disagree that the OT covenants were not covenants of grace. How could the Lord, knowing that the people with whom He was making a covenant would utterly fail, even venture into such an agreement? Either He was setting them up to be cruel as a trap or He was naive. Neither reflect the true attributes of the Lord nor the way He is described in the OT. There was always grace, but perhaps it was not obtained as abundantly as it is under the NT now the Jesus has come and torn the veil in two and provided a complete payment for our sins. If there was no grace, then there could not have been a Hebrews 11 and today a great cloud of witnesses made up by these and more.
N.T. Wright and company miss the point that while grace was available throught the OT; how could David be a man after God's own heart considering his considerable sin? but then miss too that too many were attempting to live by a works righteousness, i.e. the Pharisees. Paul was brought up amongt these particular people and understood where Judaism was at that time extremely well. I believe that Paul must have been hugely relieved to find grace through faith and that not of yourselves. These people had missed the grace available by not throwing themselves on God's mercy. Luke 18:9-14 must have applied prior to the parab
I had this whole thing wrong myself until recently. I don't know about the statement that Judaism was "in essence" a system of grace, not works righteousness, but I learnt from the American pastors on 1689federalism.com that God's covenants in the Old Testament were genuine, and they were not covenants of grace, even though their purpose was to increasingly reveal God's covenant of grace, which was formally introduced in the New Covenant. So it was all a system of types and shadows, pictures and so on.
I'm still working on it, but the statement made by 100 Baptist pastors in the 17th century in London concerning this is found in the 1689 confession, article 7 I think it is.
John UK wrote: New Perspective on Paul, New Take on Paul? It's all a bit like, "Here's a New Bible, chuck your old ones away." Of course that means buying a new Bible every year, so that in twenty years time your bookshelf will be full of them. But hey, who cares? The country is trillions in debt, why shouldn't you get in debt to have the latest newfangled thing or doctrine in your life?
Hey brother, I did a study on it a few years ago and the below is some of what I came up with.
NT Wright, EP Sanders, James Dunn ‚Äď proponents
What actually does the NPP teach? It teaches that everyone, especially the Protestants have misunderstood 2nd temple Judaism. Judaism was in essence a system of grace, not works righteousness. The Reformation got it wrong when they believed that Paul was teaching a doctrine of salvation by grace as opposed to a salvation by works. The Jews never thought they were in a covenant of works, but of grace. We are left with two choices; either Paul misunderstood Judaism, or Luther and the Reformation misunderstood Paul. NT Wright concludes that Paul has been misunderstood by the Reformation. Paul did not think or teach that Judaism was a system that had been works righteousness oriented.
New Perspective on Paul, New Take on Paul? It's all a bit like, "Here's a New Bible, chuck your old ones away." Of course that means buying a new Bible every year, so that in twenty years time your bookshelf will be full of them. But hey, who cares? The country is trillions in debt, why shouldn't you get in debt to have the latest newfangled thing or doctrine in your life?
Galatians 3:22-29 But the Scripture imprisoned all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, confined for the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law has become our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all children of God, through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you are Christ‚Äôs, then you are Abraham‚Äôs offspring and heirs according to promise.
As the apostle Paul was directed by God to tell us.