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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  10/23/2019
MONDAY, NOV 19, 2018  |  147 comments
Virtual Baptisms?

Virtual Reality Church’s first baptism took place in a 3D house with an underground pool and a massive billboard overhead proclaiming “A Special Baptism and Communion service.” Alina Delp, 46—portrayed as a purple, robot-like avatar—stood submerged in the water while Pastor D. J. Soto proclaimed her new life in Christ and her sins washed away. When her avatar floated to the surface, dozens of congregants and family members cheered, their avatars sending heart and clap icons floating skyward.

Delp rarely leaves her house due to erythromelalgia, a rare condition that makes it painful to be outside for longer than a few minutes. Baptism would have been difficult for her in the past. With the virtual baptism, her family members from all over the country were able to witness the event in real time.

“When the opportunity came to me, I just had to do it. I was so excited that church was an option for ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 147 user comment(s)
News Item11/28/18 4:01 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
Adriel wrote:
2Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."
Those in Christ will be saved. Christians will not receive God’s wrath. Their works will be judged, not their sins.
147

News Item11/28/18 2:55 PM
Adriel  Find all comments by Adriel
John for JESUS wrote:
What Jesus did was had our sins forgiven so there is no need for punishment to those who believe.
2Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."
146

News Item11/27/18 12:58 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
Suffering for sin and taking on the responsibility of someone else’s sin is two different things. Jesus suffered for our sins, but He was never guilty of our sins or spent eternity in Hell because of them as He should if He were to truly be punished for them. What Jesus did was had our sins forgiven so there is no need for punishment to those who believe.
145

News Item11/27/18 9:00 AM
Plain Old Tim | Possum Hollow, USA  Find all comments by Plain Old Tim
J4J, the gospel is that “Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried , and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.”
Christ, that’s Jesus. Died for our sins, that means He took our punishment so that we don’t have to take it. According to the scriptures means that the Old Testament foretold that He would be punished in our place. Your problem is not that you don’t agree with John UK. Your problem is that you don’t believe God.
144

News Item11/27/18 7:55 AM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
Unprofitable Servant...

I hate when this happens but you say something like “there is no condemnation” (Romans 5:1) then when I go look at the verse, it is talking about something totally different. The problem with your theory of penal substitution is that it is unbiblical. If that is how God did things I am sure he would have said so. Instead He says:

“The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:20‬

That means Jesus isn’t guilty or responsible for what you have done. Now as one example look at this:

“Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:1‬

You act like that proves Jesus was penalized for each of our sins. How? We both agree that we are justified by faith through Jesus. Those verses you gave just don’t pertain to anything you said they would. Was I supposed to see a verse next to one of your comments like “a believers sins were punished...” and be like, okay he must be right because he quoted a verse and not actually look at the verse?!

143

News Item11/27/18 4:50 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
J4 wrote:
John UK...
Another thing, as I understand it, the penal substitutionary theory teaches that Jesus was unjustly punished in our place for sins He did not commit, to appease His wrath, so that He could then forgive you. Why not just forgive?
A couple of things here John. Substitution is not a theory, but orthodox Christian doctrine, which you reject. Secondly, the Lord Jesus was not unjustly punished, though he was spotless and without sin.

1. In order to be just (righteous), God MUST do right by his own law.

2. Therefore sin MUST be punished in hell, and that for eternity.

3. Therefore, God CANNOT merely forgive you for your sins.

4. Therefore, to be both just (righteous, keeping to his own law) and yet still justify (declare righteous) the ungodly (Romans 4:5), sin MUST be punished somewhere. It will either be in YOU, or in your SUBSTITUTE. Now which is it to be?

Romans 3:26 KJV
(26) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

In the text above, I suggest you study the words "just" and "justifier" and work out what they refer to. I have given you a start already.

142

News Item11/26/18 11:44 PM
The Quiet Christian  Find all comments by The Quiet Christian
John for JESUS wrote:
John UK...
Another thing, as I understand it, the penal substitutionary theory teaches that Jesus was unjustly punished in our place for sins He did not commit, to appease His wrath, so that He could then forgive you. Why not just forgive? Also, forgiveness doesn’t negate guilt! Again, if you murder someone and I am punished unjustly for it, that still doesn’t erase the fact that you are guilty.
You've asked a great question, J4J. The answer is that someone has to pay the bill for the damages done. That Someone was Jesus. The reality is that we're just not good enough, even in our saved state (1 John 1:8-10). We still have/possess sin. Jesus never did. We have to have His righteousness. 2 Corinthians 5:21 applies so well - "For he [the Father] hath made him [Jesus] to be sin for us, which knew no sin, that we should be made the righteousness of God in him [Jesus]." You are correct in that we are still guilty without having the righteousness of Jesus all the time. One noted pastor famously, or infamously, stated that there is an infinite amount of grace to be given to the redeemed. True or not, the crowns handed out got tossed back onto the sea and given back to the One from which they came...He alone is worthy.
141

News Item11/26/18 8:49 PM
Unprofitable Servant | TN  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
There would be no spirit verses the flesh struggle that is true of all of God’s redeemed. If we have no sins, as you suggest, then there would be no need to pursue holiness (Hebrews12:14), we have already arrived. Paul said he had not attained, so he apparently wasn’t in your doctrinal camp.
There is a difference in our position and our present reality.  We are currently seated in heavenly places with Christ (Eph. 2”6) but that is not our lot in our passage on this earth.   We walk by faith not by sight and enjoy our position with our precious Lord.   

Don't pat yourself on the back.  The reason those in forum stop responding to you isn't because you have won the argument or made irrefutable proof of your position, but because you never acknowledge when your error has been exposed and the truth has been shown.  It becomes like talking to a wall, no amount of doctrinal truth moves you from your erroneous thinking.

140

News Item11/26/18 8:47 PM
Unprofitable Servant | TN  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
You have no concept of sin, its nature and its punishment, J4J.  The law produces wrath (Romans 4:15) but the forgiven ones are as mentioned earlier in the chapter are those to whom the Lord does not impute or count their sins against that individual.  Why, because they are judicially pardoned. (Col. 2:14). Their debt has been paid, thus there is no condemnation (Romans 5:1) because the indebtedness that would condemn us is paid.  Sins cry out for punishment (Gen. 4:10) The believers sins were punished on Christ (Isaiah 53:11) not unjustly, they deserved to be punished.  They are forgiven forever judicially, past, present and future.  But they still have to be dealt with in the believers life.  Not repenting and forsaking them can lead to sickness, even death (I Cor. 11:30). Practicing them leads to chastisement (Hebrews 12)They are to be mortified (Rom 8:13;Col.3:5). We are commanded to reckon ourselves dead to sin and not let it reign in our mortal bodies (Romans 6). How can this be if they don’t exist?  We are commanded to confess them for forgiveness (not judicial but parental) and to avoid doing them (I John 1:7-2:1)  Remember if we say we have no sin, we are a liar.
139

News Item11/26/18 7:26 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
John UK...

Another thing, as I understand it, the penal substitutionary theory teaches that Jesus was unjustly punished in our place for sins He did not commit, to appease His wrath, so that He could then forgive you. Why not just forgive? Also, forgiveness doesn’t negate guilt! Again, if you murder someone and I am punished unjustly for it, that still doesn’t erase the fact that you are guilty.

138

News Item11/26/18 7:01 PM
Unprofitable Servant | TN  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Cannot respond on actual thread, my apologies
https://www.sermonaudio.com/new_details.asp?ID=50662

Two things John UK

1., the new covenant is found in Romans 11

2. I challenge you or penned to find a dispensational site that says that the current crop of Jews are a saved godly bunch. Because they are acting like unregenerate men who have no knowledge of the truth.  That confirms not negates Romans 11

Penny cannot produce a dispensational site that advocates for military build up, supports the ADL, supports transgender education or are bigots.  The bigotry is on her part and her websites that she uses.  The kingdom of His dear Son is built by sharing the gospel and acknowledging that He said, "I will build my church", not us.  We can sow and water. only God can give the increase.  

Penny's eschatological  position doesn't bother me, but her constant false,  unproven accusations against the brethren are very disheartening

137

News Item11/26/18 6:30 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
John UK...

You could of clarified a lot sooner. If that is what you believe than why on earth would you even feel the need to pretend Jesus suffered eternal death for you and who knows how many others? Believing that while knowing He arose again just three days later instead? It’s craziness and nonsensical, not to mention unbiblical. Maybe according to some hymns, but so what?

God’s wrath is appeased in us who believe because Christ has not sinned. When a believer is placed in Christ, they have not sinned either. It’s not that their sins need to be placed on a fall guy in Jesus Christ, but that their sins are erased. There is no need to punish sins that don’t exist in Jesus Christ. He alone is righteous and those who believe are clothed with His righteousness and not a righteousness of our own. Having Jesus burn in the lake of fire for eternity would accomplish nothing.

136

News Item11/26/18 6:30 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
John UK...

You could of clarified a lot sooner. If that is what you believe than why on earth would you even feel the need to pretend Jesus suffered eternal death for you and who knows how many others? Believing that while knowing He arose again just three days later instead? It’s craziness and nonsensical, not to mention unbiblical. Maybe according to some hymns, but so what?

God’s wrath is appeased in us who believe because Christ has not sinned. When a believer is placed in Christ, they have not sinned either. It’s not that their sins need to be placed on a fall guy in Jesus Christ, but that their sins are erased. There is no need to punish sins that don’t exist in Jesus Christ. He alone is righteous and those who believe are clothed with His righteousness and not a righteousness of our own. Having Jesus burn in the lake of fire for eternity would accomplish nothing.

135

News Item11/26/18 5:16 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
J4 wrote:
John UK...
Your own filthy rags!
I commend to you the biblical doctrine of imputation of Christ's righteousness through faith. But then you knew that, John. I have told you many times. Why must you keep showing yourself to be ignorant or a deceiver? Why? because you are a child of the devil, that's why. You love to tell lies about what others believe, like your father the devil.

Isaiah 59:1-3 KJV
(1)  Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
(2)  But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
(3)  For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness.

Two things needed to be reconciled to God and assured of a place in heaven:

1. The forgiveness of your sins

2. The imputed righteousness of Christ

You are still a long way from God, and you have a self-righteousness that I can smell all the way to here in Wales. And I tell you these things out of concern for you. For you do not yet believe on Christ.

134

News Item11/26/18 4:58 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
John UK...

I won’t suffer for my sins because I am clothed with the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

“After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

...“These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:9, 14‬

Now let’s look at what you want to be clothed with.

“But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭64:6‬

Your own filthy rags! If you are depending on Jesus having somehow suffered the penalty for your individual sins to save you, that still would not make you righteous. It would just mean someone else was unjustly punished for you. You would still be guilty if that was the case.

You guys need to stop getting your theology from hymns!

pennned...

God made promises to the seed of Abraham. He has not forgotten or gave up on Israel!

133

News Item11/26/18 3:23 PM
Unprofitable Servant | TN  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
My post should have read grace of God
132

News Item11/26/18 1:23 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Plain Old Tim wrote:
J4J, one more thing, and then I’ll be out of touch for most of the day. Why don’t you ask Johnny Hunt if our sins were imputed to Christ, and His righteousness imputed to us? If he says yes, then you should either get on board with what he believes, or find another church that agrees with what you believe. If he says no, you’re right where you belong—with other unbelievers.
Bro, if there is one very special thing that unites all true believers, whether Independent Fundamentalist Baptists, Southern Baptists, or Reformed Baptists (and I have great respect for all three, though RB myself) it is what you mentioned here: the imputation of our sins to the Saviour, and the imputation of Christ's righteousness to sinners who trust Christ. This is the gospel, the good news, and there is none other. No other way. Amen.

Here's another hymn:

http://www.lutheran-hymnal.com/lyrics/tlh156.htm

131

News Item11/26/18 1:19 PM
Unprofitable Servant | TN  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
I refer you, penned, back to my post in the other thread in which I said nothing about dispensationalism but clearly demonstrated the Bible teaches what you choose to deny. I choose by the grace of Tod to believe the Bible
130

News Item11/26/18 1:04 PM
penned  Find all comments by penned
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
People J4J is spreading a falsehood
ya due to futurism connected to the false racially driven two people of God model!

it leads people to excesses and blindness to the breadth of the gospel of King Jesus!

its a rabbit trail that goes further from the narrow road the longer on it.

so that even the bible itself is in question.

the best way to solve this is to take out the new testament entirely.

then there is no fear of being offensive.

https://theisraelbible.com/

the worship of Israel without the impediments of the New Testament.

129

News Item11/26/18 10:54 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
J4 wrote:
John UK...
We must suffer the penalty of our own sins.
John, you will suffer for your own sins, just as you wish.

As for me, the Saviour has taken my sins upon himself.

Doc, that hymn was mentioned in that preaching I heard in 1979 which the Lord used to bring me to Christ. It has stuck in my mind ever since, even though I never heard it sung until this week when I found it on You Tube.

All to him I owe
Jesus paid it all
Sin had left a crimson stain
He washed it white as snow

Hallelujah! Amen and Amen!

128
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