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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  12/13/2019
TUESDAY, SEP 25, 2018  |  19 comments
Gay, but celibate’ But time to be very wary

Imagine this scenario. You’re an officer in an evangelical church. The congregation has been thriving and the spirit is good.

But now comes a thunderbolt. Your assistant pastor has just made it known to your church’s leaders that he struggles with a lifelong sexual attraction to other men. Not only that, but he has begun, through social media and otherwise, to let the public know about this. Through his dress, manner, and associations, he demonstrates his preference for a personal identity and lifestyle that is frequently associated with homosexuality. But he assures you that there’s no cause for worry, since he is sexually celibate.

How’s a church to respond? Well, probably not by doing what the Roman Catholic Church has been doing for the last few generations. By most accounts, the Catholic hierarchy has willingly trained and ordained priests who self-identify or are otherwise known as ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 19 user comment(s)
News Item9/27/18 9:54 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Wayfarer Wrkte:
"Thank you all. I’m not having a pity party..."

Never thought that for a second, and I doubt anyone else did either. The only reason that you even care either way, is because you're a born again Christian. Unlike a parent who isn't, most would be supporting, encouraging, and even celebrating such a courageous child...maybe even bragging him up on social media.

You, on the other hand, know what the real deal is with the choices he's making. Unfortunately, he now has a whole new group of supporters and friends that he definitely doesn't need.

Will continue to pray for him, and remember...God can, and does do some pretty amazing things.

19

News Item9/26/18 6:31 PM
Wayfarer Pilgrim | Lubbock,tx  Find all comments by Wayfarer Pilgrim
Thank you all. I’m not having a pity party. It just proves that never underestimate the evil intent of the devil and how lost , the lost are.
Also, for any pastor reading this comment site, please, be explicit in the salvation offered by Christ. Do not baptize for numbers sake or think the younger the better the convert . No too both.
18

News Item9/26/18 6:29 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
...My dad was now witnessing and stopping strangers to ask if he could tell them about Christ...the very man who everyone said, "No way".

Again, God can, and does do some pretty amazing things, so never lose hope, no matter how bleak a situation, or impossible a person may seem...

17

News Item9/26/18 6:29 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Wayfarer, I can only try to imagine your grief and frustration. I've commented on the situation when you first mentioned it to everyone, so I won't tire you by repeating anything I've already said because it's just one of those things where nothing can really lift a person up in the here and now as a parent.
The one thing I'll add is that God can, and does do some pretty amazing things. My dad was not a good man, and was one of those people who others might consider to be unreachable spiritually, and who would never, ever fathom his eyes being opened, and becoming a new creature; born again. He was that sort of man that others might say there's no way that man will ever turn his sights to God, or even take a moment to listen.
My dad had said that he would never change...not even for me, he told his sister once. My dad was rough and tough, the product of an abusive childhood, and watched as my grandmother murdered his Chicago policeman, father, my grandfather. My dad turned bad, and remained real bad up until his mid to late 40's.
Through persistent prayer, and the seeds planted and witness of his sister, and strangers over many years, he beat all odds and came to know Christ as his Lord and Savior.
16

News Item9/26/18 3:40 AM
Chris G P | England  Find all comments by Chris G P
vindicate your cause.
15

News Item9/26/18 3:40 AM
Chris G P | England  Find all comments by Chris G P
At the time of the London Pride March this past summer, fully supported strangely by the Muslim Mayor of Greater London, Sadiq Khan (not to be confused to the real annually appointed historical ceremonial Lord Mayor of the City of London), rainbow flags were everywhere, and banners and even today some of the Transport for London city bicycles for hire proclaimed “Love is Love” on a rainbow background, and in tube (Underground or Metro) stations there were rainbow signs saying “we support love”.

Such perversities are common these days. In Trafalgar Square in the heart of London, some of the pedestrian traffic lights do not show the expected red or green man, but red or green male / male, female / female and male / female symbol signs.

Dear Wayfarer from Lubbock, Texas, I will still pray for you, your wife, your family, your son’s wife and children, and above all, that your “transgender” son will stop his rebellion, come out of his deception, and come to his senses.

Likely as not his “new friends” in the LGBT and Transgender community, and the medical and legal professionals and activists whom no doubt are making money out of him are buoying him up, and using him for their own nefarious purposes.

The Lord will deal with it, and He will strengthen and encourage you and

14

News Item9/25/18 11:58 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
It is often said in pulpits and in the media that love is simply love. So if someone is in a homosexual relationship and they claim to have love for one another, then that relationship is okay. If these groups adopt a child and love that child, then that is also okay. If a lesbian woman undergoes In Vitro Fertilization and gets pregnant and has a child, she will also undoubtedly have a love for that child. In fact, let me just say that using the word love will generally solve any cultural problems we can encounter. However, here is a thought that most don’t consider. Unless our love is used to demonstrate the love of Christ, then our love is baseless and only serves satan. Yes, God, our Savior and the Holy Spirit are completely and totally the spirit of love and without them love cannot exist, but surely anyone can see that we can have a false love and deceive ourselves and those we are loving, albeit in a worldly way. If something is done and it is not done by our Lord and Savior working through us, then it is meaningless. Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure. John 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
13

News Item9/25/18 9:47 PM
The Quiet Christian  Find all comments by The Quiet Christian
I'm praying for him and for you, Wayfarer. What a heartbreaking situation.
12

News Item9/25/18 8:24 PM
Wayfarer Pilgrim | Lubbock,tx  Find all comments by Wayfarer Pilgrim
I have been informed and clearly told by my son, who is transgender that if you don’t accept me, you don’t love me.But I have said, I love you and am sorry you have chosen to this to yourself and sad this is your answer to your mental illness. Needless to say, we haven’t spoken in 4 months.
11

News Item9/25/18 8:10 PM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Frank Wrote:
"...But who would say that telling a lie was just as evil as murdering a child?"

Excellent point, and example, Frank. I think there are more than I would have even thought, but like you said, "clueless", would be a good word, or, scripturally ignorant. The word, ignorant, always carries a negative stigma/intended meaning along with it, but I don't mean to use it as, dumb, or stupid, but simply, having limited information for understanding.

Scripture is clear, in that the suffering of some will be greater than others even though the bible doesn't state outright that there are differing levels of punishment. Revelation 20:11-15 talks about those who are judged according to the things they had done throughout their lifetimes, according to what is recorded in the books. The thing is that they are all, every one of them, thrown into the Lake of Fire...they all go to the same place, so maybe one purpose of the final judgement is to determine how severe their suffering will be(?)
Also, Luke 12, the servant and the blows, as well as Christ's warning in Luke 10(?) about those towns that reject Him, the gospel, and how it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgement, etc. I could go on, but seems clear enough to make a solid case that sins are not all e

10

News Item9/25/18 7:20 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Hey Chris,

Thanks for your comment. I also remember those you are talking about and I usually ignore them. There is a time to rebuke folks and those that think that is always improper are clueless. Christ called the Pharisees devils and said their father was the devil and of course I could name other instances and many scriptures to prove our point.

IMO, total depravity doesn't mean that all unsaved are equally evil, but simply that all unsaved are evil. There is none good, no not one ... But who would say that telling a lie was just as evil as murdering a child?

9

News Item9/25/18 1:00 PM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Hi Frank,

I can't quote them verbatim, but there have been people who have posted on this forum who would basically pop into a thread which had some sort of a sodomite issue as its topic at the time, and admonish others for casting stones because all are with sin. Basically, the idea was, "How dare any of you judge these for their particular sin, when you are all with sin". Judging by their other comments, the idea was basically that sin is sin, and all are equal...lifting a candy bar would be the same as murder, sodomy, rape...whatever, take your pick, because a sin, is a sin, is a sin. Nope. I always keep in mind that had God not called me out and opened my eyes, I could be the murderer, the sodomite, the rapist, so I'm always very careful not to judge in a way that would make me appear as the Pharisee who says, "Thank God I'm not as these..." (Luke 18:11), as they look down upon all of the terrible sinners.

Anyway, like you were getting at, sin is not sin, and if there are differing degrees of eternal punishment, then God considers some sins more aggregious then others, and acts against God's natural order; crimes against nature, seem to be at the forefront; receiving His greatest, eternal wrath.

8

News Item9/25/18 12:01 PM
Adriel  Find all comments by Adriel
Not a new problem for the idolatrous church of Rome.

Quote;
"Homosexual clergy, and homosexual activity by clergy, are not exclusively modern phenomena, but rather date back centuries. Estimates presented in Donald B. Cozzens' book (2000) The Changing Face of the Priesthood of the percentage of contemporary gay priests range from 23–58%, suggesting a higher than average numbers of homosexual men (active and non-active) within the Catholic priesthood. Instructions from Vatican bodies on admitting gay men to the priesthood have varied over time. In the 1960s chaste gay men were allowed but, by 2005 a new directive banned gay men "while profoundly respecting the persons in question."

The existence of gay bishops is a matter of historical record. Homosexual activity was engaged in secretly." (Wiki)

7

News Item9/25/18 10:44 AM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Well all sin is not the same and the sin of homosexuality warranted the death penalty under a Jewish theocracy. Since our Lord does not change there is no reason to believe He has lessened the evil of this particular sin. Note: But what I am saying is we have no authorized religious courts today to pass sentence; that is the only difference.

I read years ago “somewhere” where the RCC accepts the future priesthood of men who say they are homosexual, but have been chaste for a certain number of years. IOW, they make some type of provision the same as the article discusses.

Now all men suffer from sinful weaknesses and each of us are different, but I would say a line should be drawn with the sin of homosexuality or any sexual addictions. I guess what I am saying is yes God does receive those who struggle with homosexuality, but the church hierarchy should not. How can someone with any confidence be in private with this fellow? It would be the same as someone who has a pornographic addiction that is under control. How could a woman meet in private with him?

A pastor is supposed to be above reproach and this fellow is not. Sexual sins are different!

6

News Item9/25/18 9:57 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Right, 2cent...seems that his belief is that it's okay to be gay, just as long as your not a practicing gay. I remember reading the word, "struggling" somewhere in the article, but his use of the word seems a bit out of place when he openly talks, walks, dresses, and associates himself with the ways and lifestyle of the very crowd he claims he's struggling to break free, and disassociate himself from.
5

News Item9/25/18 9:15 AM
My Own 2 cents  Find all comments by My Own 2 cents
I agree Christopher000, it starts with the promise of chastity. It makes total sense.

For non-RCC churches; if he's acting gay, or is expressing intimate-like feeling of ppl of the same gender, he ain't a Christian.

4

News Item9/25/18 6:56 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
So the next time you’re confronted with a candidate for leadership in your own church (or school, or mission, or other institution) who boasts that he is “gay but celibate,” you may do well to remember the clear and present agony of a growing host of your Catholic brothers and sisters. ***Every single one of the priests who stand guilty of sexual abuse started with a promise of chastity.***

Good comments, Chris. Pay attention to my asterisks in the last sentence. This man may try as he might, but hmmm... yet, through his dress, mannerisms, and associations, he openly screams sodomite, and is letting everyone know his preferred orientation via social media, but with promises of celibacy? This is worth quoting again:

***Every single one of the priests who stand guilty of sexual abuse started with a promise of chastity.***

Here's a thought that's a bit outside of the box, but...could this man possibly be reaching out the way he is in order to try and find others like him; others who are also in hiding who would respond in private? Sort of like trying to discover other "Christian" sodomites on the sly, to hookup or date, etc., on the sly?

Just thinking out loud, but this seems like more than a struggle, and more like, it's okay to be gay as long as I (we) don't touch

3

News Item9/25/18 2:35 AM
Chris G P | England  Find all comments by Chris G P
congregation, he is not allowed to continue until well in the future with full accountability he is obviously living in a very clear celibate way, that he is totally opposed to any expression of LGBTQ lifestyle, and more particularly in most cases that he is subsequently over a long period of time heterosexually and faithfully married.
2

News Item9/25/18 2:32 AM
Chris G P | England  Find all comments by Chris G P
While the article deals primarily with the Roman Catholic Church, and applies the conclusion to evangelical churches who have discovered homosexual leaning ministers, the two cases are different.

The RCC is cursed with it’s regrettable rule on compulsory celibacy for it’s priests, and its many wrong doctrines. It is true since Vatican 2, it has been completely ambivalent over the young men that it has permitted to enter its seminaries and monasteries, and the tragic scandals that have emerged there in.

However, evangelical churches are different, in that ministers from these churches are usually married (heterosexually) or expected to do so soon. Also the whole method of training for ministry are very different, and these evangelical ministerial candidates are much more “in the world, but not of it”, unlike the monastic style set up in the Catholic seminaries.

However, with the increasing doctrinal, moral and cultural pressures, more and more things like heterosexual immorality and now LGBTQ etc. immorality are coming into the evangelical church.

An assistant pastor who shares about homosexual temptation to his eldership and senior pastor, should be immediately removed from active ministry, given all the help and support he needs, but for the safety of the congregat

1
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