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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  3/24/2019
THURSDAY, APR 19, 2018  |  63 comments
Pilot hailed as 'American hero' for landing stricken jet

Captain Tammie Jo Shults, one of the first women fighter pilots in the US Navy, was hailed as an American hero Wednesday for calmly landing a stricken passenger jet after a midair engine explosion that killed a mother-of-two.

"This is a true American Hero," wrote passenger Diana McBride Self on Facebook, posting a picture of Shults in the aisle of the Boeing 737-700, greeting passengers as they filed out of the plane in Philadelphia on Tuesday.

"A huge thank you for her knowledge, guidance and bravery in a traumatic situation. God bless her and all the crew," she added.

"The pilot, Tammy (sic) Jo was so amazing!" wrote passenger Amanda Bourman on Instagram next to a picture of the ruptured engine on the tarmac. ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 63 user comment(s)
News Item4/21/18 1:48 PM
not the same  Find all comments by not the same
Conner, it looks like your comment was directed at me so I will respond. I am not sure how you access this site but if you use a computer you can click on the magnifying glass next to my name to verify. In none of my comments did I reference the doctrine of sotetiology. I actually believe in particular redemption. The discussion on man and freewill was from Watcher not me. I said man’s will was in bondage to his nature. Although I did not cite Nebuchadnezzar, I did say Pharosh and Cyrus were examples of exceptions to God’s normal dealing with men and freely acknowledge that He can deal with any person any way He wishes. I have never asserted that men control God. I have stated and shown from Scripture that God does not predestine all the actions of every man. Hope that clarifies things
63

News Item4/21/18 11:52 AM
Been Watching  Find all comments by Been Watching
Connor7 wrote:
Not really since God gave the Philistines into David's hand, that must mean that God...God interfered with the freewill of the Philistines. Now if you're consistent with your position, what choice did Nebuchadnezzar have when God took the kingdom away from him, and in God giving him a beasts heart, and having that for seven years? It was eternally decreed that it would happen, and was not Pharaoh's very purpose for being created is that God's power would be made known?
And the non Calvinist says that God eternally desired all men to be saved, I've never met a non Calvinist who believes otherwise, however if we explore this notion...
And I've never meet a someone who could deal with the Double Jeopardy argument by John Owen. I think every Calvinist should know this argument, and I will put it quite simply: If Jesus bore the wrath of God for all of humanity, on what basis does God have for punishing any unbeliever in Hell? Doesn't that contradict the doctrine of atonement, penal sub
Amen Connor. Thank you for your sound words.
62

News Item4/21/18 11:50 AM
Connor7  Find all comments by Connor7
Not really since God gave the Philistines into David's hand, that must mean that God...God interfered with the freewill of the Philistines. Now if you're consistent with your position, what choice did Nebuchadnezzar have when God took the kingdom away from him, and in God giving him a beasts heart, and having that for seven years? It was eternally decreed that it would happen, and was not Pharaoh's very purpose for being created is that God's power would be made known?

And the non Calvinist says that God eternally desired all men to be saved, I've never met a non Calvinist who believes otherwise, however if we explore this notion, then you must realize that God eternally knew that all men will not be saved, and thus, His plan has, and will continue to be, defeated by the almighty will of man, and that in the past, present, and future, the creature has out willed the will of the Creator. Doesn't that affect God's sovereignty?

And I've never meet a someone who could deal with the Double Jeopardy argument by John Owen. I think every Calvinist should know this argument, and I will put it quite simply: If Jesus bore the wrath of God for all of humanity, on what basis does God have for punishing any unbeliever in Hell? Doesn't that contradict the doctrine of atonement, penal sub

61

News Item4/21/18 2:51 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
not the same wrote:
Your wife can choose to wear a blue dress or a pink skirt with a white top to church. Her control of that choice does not diminish, undermine, or affect the fact that God is sovereign.

Hezekiah could have the shadow on the sun dial go backward or forward. His choice did not diminish, undermine, or affect the fact that God is sovereign.

David could choose 7 years famine, three months of fleeing before enemies or three days pestilence. His choice did not diminish, undermine, or affect the fact that God is sovereign.

Good examples, two of which are biblical and cannot be gainsaid. I don't know who is arguing with you, but they err in their thinking, maybe to avoid their responsibilities.

Your further example of Romans 6 would not make any sense if the saints are not expected by the sovereign God to make their own decisions concerning living all out for their Saviour and being continually repentant, which gift they have already been given.

Besides which, if there is no freedom of choice, the majority of the NT makes no sense, and it makes me wonder to what sort of freedom Christ has set us free.

60

News Item4/21/18 2:07 AM
Calvinist Satire  Find all comments by Calvinist Satire
Just make sure you don't fall into that William Lane Craig molonism notion, trying to understand that is like trying to understand why the earth is flat. 🐢
59

News Item4/21/18 12:18 AM
not the same  Find all comments by not the same
alright then my last word will be God's Word, this admonition does not undermine nor take away from God's sovereignty it shows what your definition by necessity denies, the culpability and responsibility of man to act on God's commands. The command is worthless if you could not yield one way or the other and God is not the author of sin.

Rom 6:11  Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 
Rom 6:12  Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 
Rom 6:13  Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:19  I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

58

News Item4/20/18 10:29 PM
Been Watching  Find all comments by Been Watching
You have the last word. You live your life according to your rules and I'll live my life according to mine and we'll see who's right in the end. I believe God is sovereign over everything including:

Man's thoughts and words (Prov. 16.1)
The wicked (Prov. 16. 4)
Even the rolling of the die (Prov. 33)

I for one will not attempt to take away from His sovereignty by pretending I have some sort of freedom to make decisions outside of His control and supremacy.

57

News Item4/20/18 9:43 PM
not the same  Find all comments by not the same
here is the dilemma; you define God being sovereign as Him predetermining every action of man. In your thinking if He is not the driving force then He is not sovereign. That is not what being sovereign means. God can do anything and none can stay His hand but controlling every action is not a proper definition of the sovereignty of God
What you are experiencing is not a debate with someone who as you say wants to make God less sovereign. That can't even be done. You are experiencing someone saying your definition of what it means for God to be sovereign is inaccurate and using Scripture to back my assertions up.

Your wife can choose to wear a blue dress or a pink skirt with a white top to church. Her control of that choice does not diminish, undermine, or affect the fact that God is sovereign.

Hezekiah could have the shadow on the sun dial go backward or forward. His choice did not diminish, undermine, or affect the fact that God is sovereign.

David could choose 7 years famine, three months of fleeing before enemies or three days pestilence. His choice did not diminish, undermine, or affect the fact that God is sovereign.

Many more verses and examples could be said but will honor your wish to end the discussion.

my posts answer you questions

56

News Item4/20/18 8:21 PM
Been Watching  Find all comments by Been Watching
Not the same wrote:
Seeing you keep bringing up free will let us do a quick reference on it. John 8:44 tells us man’s will is in bondage to his nature. However, if the unregenerate only do things that God predetermined they would, then you have eliminated our Lird’s clear teachings on degrees of punishment in hell
The phrase freewill , normally appearing before the word offering, as in Psalm 119:108, appears 17 times in the KJV Bible. Are you saying that a sovereign God who inspired the Scriptures made a mistake or had His sovereignty iimpugned by allowing, requesting and acknowledging such actions?
I am not going to continue this fruitless debate with someone who desires to make the point that God isn't entirely sovereign. You are confusing the idea of God wanting us to come to Him with a cheerful, obedient heart and God being in control.

Let's lay the cards on the table.

1. Is God sovereign? Yes or No.

2. Does man have a free will? Taking into account the definition of free will, please answer yes or no.

Someone has to be sovereign. We cannot share the throne. There's only room for One.

55

News Item4/20/18 7:46 PM
James Thomas | Fla  Find all comments by James Thomas
Psalm 51:17
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Isaiah 57:15
15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

Psalm 10:17
17 LORD, thou hast heard the desire of the humble: thou wilt prepare their heart, thou wilt cause thine ear to hear:

Psalm 119:107 quicken me, O LORD, according unto *thy word*.

Isaiah 55:3
3 Incline your ear, and come unto me:* hear*, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

Romans 10:17
17 So then faith by *hearing*, and hearing by the *word of God*.

Isaiah 55:11
11 So shall *my word* be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

54

News Item4/20/18 5:58 PM
Not the same  Find all comments by Not the same
Seeing you keep bringing up free will let us do a quick reference on it. John 8:44 tells us man’s will is in bondage to his nature. However, if the unregenerate only do things that God predetermined they would, then you have eliminated our Lird’s clear teachings on degrees of punishment in hell

The phrase freewill , normally appearing before the word offering, as in Psalm 119:108, appears 17 times in the KJV Bible. Are you saying that a sovereign God who inspired the Scriptures made a mistake or had His sovereignty iimpugned by allowing, requesting and acknowledging such actions?

53

News Item4/20/18 3:10 PM
Been Watching  Find all comments by Been Watching
Not the same wrote:
That is because ‘it’s” logical conclusion is your logical conclusion not what is found in the Bible. You are generalizing a specific. So called free will has nothing to do with it do please leave it out of discussion, again only you are bringing it up
And you haven't read Romans 9 with understanding. This is where it gets frustrating because in my eyes, the Bible is quite clear. Read Romans 9 and ask God to show you the truth contained therein.

As my wife said, I would rather error (if in fact it was error), on the side of saying that God is sovereign and we have no free will, rather than stealing away God's glory and saying we have some sort of power to stay God's hand if we want to.

52

News Item4/20/18 3:06 PM
Not the same  Find all comments by Not the same
That is because ‘it’s” logical conclusion is your logical conclusion not what is found in the Bible. You are generalizing a specific. So called free will has nothing to do with it do please leave it out of discussion, again only you are bringing it up
51

News Item4/20/18 2:57 PM
Been Watching  Find all comments by Been Watching
Not the same wrote:
Will give a brief response here as I am still not where have time and resources. Been Watching please don’t think I am trying to be argumentative or am unappreciative of your desire to exalt God. I simply saying you are either misdefining or misapplying the doctrine of the sovereignty of God....
In no way am I doing away with our accountability to God. We follow the plans of our sovereign God whether we do it with a smile or a frown. All of mankind follow God's plan for them. Romans 9 tells us this: 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God*? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to* make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

I don't think are taking the sovereignty of God to its logical conclusion. God is sovereign or He isn't. Sovereignty means in control over all. Not some. Free will says I can make my decisions and choices, and those choices will not be controlled or influenced by any outside source.

50

News Item4/20/18 2:35 PM
Not the same  Find all comments by Not the same
Will give a brief response here as I am still not where have time and resources. Been Watching please don’t think I am trying to be argumentative or am unappreciative of your desire to exalt God. I simply saying you are either misdefining or misapplying the doctrine of the sovereignty of God. As I see it you are doing away with accountability per Romans 14:12. Why be told to make no provision for the flesh but put on the Lord Jesus if I have no capacity to make that conscious choice? Why be admonished to do all to the glory of God if I have no capability or culpability in the matter? Look st Romans 7 :15-20 and tell me it lines up with your explanation of how the sovereignty of God is manifested
49

News Item4/20/18 11:53 AM
Been Watching  Find all comments by Been Watching
John UK wrote:
That's very kind of you to say so, Watcher. And thanks for the chat. We are both thinking men, and God will show us more and more if we focus on him, not on things on the earth.
However, if one day you are convinced God wants you to hire non-Christian babysitters, you might consider that it could be the devil telling you to do that.
Oh dear, please don't cross that bridge yet! Yikes! Yes, God does compel us to make decisions that can bring us harm as well. There was a family in the States called the Eshes. They were biblically saved and sang wonderful music. Well, on the highway one morning, a long haul truck swerved into their lane and killed everyone (the entire family) except for two babies whom they had adopted. People look at that and say that God can't be in control to allow that to happen, but He did. Why? For His glory of course, and that's all that should matter to us. We have had many near misses on our highway, driving to and from work, but God has been in control of it all. This is why we are told to count it ALL JOY when we are tempted, tried and tested. Because it brings us closer to imitating Jesus Christ or it allows us to exit this horrible world and go onto our rest.

Good comments brother!

48

News Item4/20/18 11:37 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Been Watching wrote:
Hi John. Thanks for your gracious comments...

To be conformed into Christ means us being eventually crushed.

That's very kind of you to say so, Watcher. And thanks for the chat. We are both thinking men, and God will show us more and more if we focus on him, not on things on the earth.

"To be conformed into Christ means us being eventually crushed."

Wow! There is a lot to that statement! And I thank you for it. Phew! So many sermon headings showing themselves, if Kev is interested, jot them down bro.

Yes, the rest of your post explains things much better, which includes things like thinking, decision-making, being sensible, making choices according to God's word, being a good parent etc. However, if one day you are convinced God wants you to hire non-Christian babysitters, you might consider that it could be the devil telling you to do that.

47

News Item4/20/18 11:24 AM
Been Watching  Find all comments by Been Watching
Hi John. Thanks for your gracious comments...

You said: The first is your comment that although you believe God is in absolute control, being sovereign over all lives, including the lost, yet you would not hire babysitters, for fear they might make some mischief. This is what prompted me to question your understanding of God's sovereignty.

My understanding of God's sovereignty is as complete as it can be until God opens my eyes to more truth. Now that being said, my comment regarding babysitters means I have a responsibility to protect my children (given to me by God). My not wanting to hire out my children's welfare to anyone is not taking away God's sovereignty, but my being a good parent. If God desires for us to hire a babysitter one day for some strange reason, then I will have no choice but to submit to that.

You said: However, he is committed to causing us to grow-he is an husbandman. And that process can be quite unpleasant. It is up to us to ensure we abide in the Vine, which requires a disciplined life of prayer and Bible study and serving the Lord.

Indeed it is. And it's supposed to be. We are to submit and thank Him for the trails and trouble we endure. To be conformed into Christ means us being eventually crushed.

46

News Item4/20/18 11:18 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Watcher, thanks for your post, and putting some more meat on the bone. It's a massive subject, and way beyond mine own understanding. However, there are two things I am keen to set in order.

The first is your comment that although you believe God is in absolute control, being sovereign over all lives, including the lost, yet you would not hire babysitters, for fear they might make some mischief. This is what prompted me to question your understanding of God's sovereignty.

The second point is a desire to always portray the Lord God in a good light, showing him to be both a gracious and a just God, with no darkness in him - he is unapproachable light and purity.

Now where I agree with you, and that wholeheartedly, is that the doctrine of God's sovereignty is most comforting to the saints, because we know that 'all things work together for good....' and so on. He is active in every area of life, to the smallest detail.

However, he is committed to causing us to grow - he is an husbandman. And that process can be quite unpleasant. It is up to us to ensure we abide in the Vine, which requires a disciplined life of prayer and Bible study and serving the Lord.

45

News Item4/20/18 10:59 AM
Been Watching  Find all comments by Been Watching
Hello John. I have a hard time just like everyone else. I complain about the weather, gas prices and my arthritis. Then I am brought back to the reality that God controls all of this. Yes I sin, many times a day. Does God control my sin and cause me to sin? James says no. BUT...God being sovereign is on control of my actions and uses my sin for His glory and my best interest. It's a delicate balance and Isa 45.7 tells us that He is indeed in control of the good AND the evil. Some will say the word evil means calamity. Well, what does calamity mean? Not much difference.

I use the illustration of a wheel. The hub is God's sovereignty. Everything stems out from there. It has to. Everything is dependent upon the sovereignty of God to exist (Col. 1 and John 1). Romans 9 tells us that He has created two groups of people. Vessels of wrath and vessels of life. Vessels of honor and vessels of dishonor. Those destined for damnation and those destined for salvation.

The reason I mentioned free will is because whenever this subject comes up, inevitably free will is defended, so I jumped to that conclusion, sorry.

The Bible is full of examples of God controlling mankind. God has to be sovereign, or someone else is.

44
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