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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | Fridays | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  1/22/2018
SUNDAY, JAN 14, 2018  |  30 comments  |  1 commentary
Moody Bible President, COO Resign Amid Controversy, Provost Retires

The president and chief operating officer of Moody Bible Institute have resigned amid controversy over the theological direction of the institution and allegations of shady administration practices, the school announced Wednesday. One of the school's provosts will also be retiring.

In an email sent to the Moody community Wednesday evening — that sources forwarded to The Christian Post — Randy Fairfax, the chair of the Moody Board of Trustees, wrote that they had "been discussing issues related to widespread concerns over the direction of Moody" and "accepted the resignations of President, Paul Nyquist; Chief Operating Officer, Steve Mogck; and the retirement of Provost, Junias Venugopal." ...


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News Item1/20/18 5:14 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
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penned wrote:
Ezekiel is an amazing text! interesting what you are seeing in it, I see the words "everlasting covenant" popping out of the text.
Indeed, Penny.

I didn't notice before I posted earlier that Ezekiel 37 was referenced by David Cloud's site as being fulfilled (in part) in 1948. For anyone interested I'll unpack the key elements of the prophecy:

Ezek 37:1-14 The gathering of both houses of Israel (Judah & Israel) by means of a resurrection, infilling them with the Holy Spirit and bringing them back to their land (inheritance).

Ezek 37:15-23 The parable of two sticks figuring the two houses of Israel; Ephraim figuring the apostle Paul (see Jer 31:9, 18-20 cf. 1 Tim 1:12-17) and Judah figuring Peter. This gathering is confirmed in Isaiah 49:6 cited by Paul in Acts 13:47.

Ezek 37:24-25 David, figuring our risen Lord and Savior, is given His own kingdom and declared the eternal king and prince of God's people.

Ezek 37:26 The promise of a new and everlasting covenant of peace and all that accompanies it from other prophetic new covenant promises.

Ezek 37:27-28 The tabernacle of David (Amos 9:11, Acts 15:16), a spiritual house (1 Peter 2:5) which was unbuilt as of Acts 7:49.

Fulfilled (in part) in 1948? I don't think so.

30

News Item1/20/18 9:46 AM
penned  Find all comments by penned
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Lurker, Ezekiel is an amazing text! interesting what you are seeing in it, I see the words "everlasting covenant" popping out of the text. Good day to you and yours!
29

News Item1/18/18 1:33 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
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I went back and read the comments and see that the point of discussion is the pre-tribulation rapture. So, not wanting to distract from the point, I'll add this to my comments below for consideration.

I don't believe anyone would argue against the rapture taking place at a resurrection so I'll point out that Ezekiel 37:11-14 clearly speaks of a resurrection. And this resurrection must mark the beginning of God's purpose of gathering two people as one in Christ of which gathering Paul wrote in Ephesians 2:14-15. And since it was already a work of God in progress at the time Paul wrote to the Ephesians, the resurrection of Ezekiel 37 must precede the writing of that letter. Fits nicely with the resurrection of Rev 19 but where does it take place in the timeline of Paul's calling and ministry?

One other point. If the resurrection of Ezekiel 37 took place at Rev 19 and before Eph 2:14-15; the rapture Paul speaks of in 1 Thes 4:17 must take place at the end of the millennial reign of Christ if a pre-tribulation rapture is true. This pretty well devastates the idea of a future literal millennial kingdom in the secular nation state of Israel.

I'll look in tonight.

28

News Item1/18/18 12:08 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
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penned wrote:
their hermeneutic is that there are two people of God, is actually an insult.
Agreed, Penny.

Ezekiel chapter 37 is a complete thought from the mind of God which lays out in great detail the joining of two people into one and David being their eternal king. But unbiblical hermeneutics imposed on the bible prevent the truths of the chapter from ever seeing the light of day. The prophetic chapter had to see its fulfillment in order for Paul to write:

Eph 2:14-15 For he is our peace, **who hath made both one**, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; **for to make in himself of twain one new man**, so making peace;

It had to be fulfilled unless there are other prophecies which speak of God joining two other peoples together to which I'd say.... good luck with that.

From the prophetic chapter, David (the Branch, Zech 6:12) is also pictured as the white horseman of Rev 19 and the gospel of peace Paul preached. Together they appear in Zechariah 6 as the white (David) and black (Paul) horsemen going into the north country to quiet the spirit of the red horseman (Law of Moses).

God interprets if permitted.

27

News Item1/18/18 10:18 AM
penned  Find all comments by penned
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John UK wrote:
Penny, seeing as David Cloud
yes, it is their singular obsession because they see this is the kingdom of God. (an idol, with no account before Christ)

so back to the hermeneutic, to say their hermeneutic is that there are two people of God, is actually an insult. any biblicist I have talked with has said that the text should teach us in context. but what I have said is that they have put a presumption on the text before it is even opened.

and on a more personal note, one who comes from a tumultuous background comes to know the Savior and His atoning sacrifice, is brought into this covenant with a family of believers, and reads the teachings of Christ, and learns of this new spiritual Kingdom that has already come and is in you and is meant to change the world, through your witness and the witness of your brothers and sisters!

to walk into a literalist church and have all the terms redefined and the covenant teaching superceded.

how many new Christians have had their hearts broken but do not know why they are disturbed?

there's reasons we are being run rough shot by the talmudist lobbies promoting lgbt....

I'm not saying these things to be insult.

I"m pleading for the new covenant out of devotion to the Messia

26

News Item1/18/18 4:53 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
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Penny, seeing as David Cloud was mentioned in the video, I looked on his site:
---
“We hereby proclaim the establishment of the Jewish State in Palestine, to be called Medinath Yisrael (The State of Israel). ... The State of Israel will be open to the immigration of Jews from all countries of their dispersion ... Our call goes out to the Jewish people all over the world to rally to our side in the task of immigration and development and to stand by us in the great struggle for the fulfillment of the dream of generations for the redemption of Israel. With trust in Almighty God, we set our hand to this Declaration, at this Session of the Provisional State Council, on the soil of the Homeland, in the city of Tel Aviv, on this Sabbath eve, the fifth of Iyar, 5708, the fourteenth of May, 1948.”

Eleven minutes later U.S. President Harry Truman, a Baptist who believed that Bible prophecy was being fulfilled, announced his recognition of Israel.
---&
"The revival of Israel, the fulfillment of the second half of the prophecy of Ezekiel 37, will occur during the Great Tribulation after the Rapture of church-age saints, when Israel will repent of her rebellion and turn to Jesus as the Christ."

Jack Chick also promoted this in his tracts.

25

News Item1/18/18 12:41 AM
Unprofitable Servant | TN  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
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penned wrote:
...
and every war we've had since they ratchet it up with their "prophecy" books, though "prophecy ceased", false theology applied to false news!

now if I get an opportunity (and every manner of device will likely be used to stop this!)..... I would like to go through that video above and post catholic catechism, dispensational views v some scriptures.

sigh

when you start with the wrong premise, you reach the wrong conclusion.

plus now there is some mystical conspiracy to stop you from doing this???

Please note the author is anti-Semite conspiracy theorist who supports Hitler's view of Jews.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5TMQ4eIgKs

(more in his list of posted videos)

see also the list of videos posted by "concerned citizen" the one who posted the video she wishes to share here

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5r_I58vk--FnPI-noKICJg

Well that's my part for the conspiracy, over and out.

24

News Item1/17/18 9:39 PM
penned  Find all comments by penned
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John UK wrote:
I watched the first ten minutes, Penny. Very, very interesting. I take it the Baptists he was talking about were the IFB style Baptists, of which we have little experience in this country.
this really can't be overstated. they have prophetic conferences, these baptist zionist cessationists have prophetic conferences, days on end of this stuff. and they play it non stop on "Christian" tv. they always have the 6 sided star on there on the flag flying.

for people who say prophecy is dead they sure do a lot of it.

a sermon called, "The Last Generation"

what is that referring to?

well you had all this prophecy books related to the fiction left behind and they said that 1948 was God's timetable of the last generation, so 40 yrs is a generation so they made millions saying rapture by 1988!

and every war we've had since they rachet it up with their "prophecy" books, though "prophecy ceased", false theology applied to false news!

now if I get an opportunity (and every manner of device will likely be used to stop this!)..... I would like to go through that video above and post catholic catechism, dispensational views v some scriptures.

23

News Item1/17/18 1:32 PM
Dr. Tim | Southern U.S.  Find all comments by Dr. Tim
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I could turn you on to a couple if you're interested.
22

News Item1/17/18 4:25 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
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penned wrote:
"The pretrib rapture is a Catholic doctrine"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5V8X5nGPA0
I watched the first ten minutes, Penny. Very, very interesting. I take it the Baptists he was talking about were the IFB style Baptists, of which we have little experience in this country.
21

News Item1/16/18 4:51 PM
My Own 2 cents  Find all comments by My Own 2 cents
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"If He isn't Lord of all, He isn't Lord at all."
William P. Grady, - Final Authority
20

News Item1/16/18 4:13 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
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penned wrote:
yes, its quite the big one. now you might remember that there was a gentleman named Arthur W Pink who came to study with this new big name evangelist named DL Moody.
And what he encountered was the development of dispensationalism, which I believe has its origins with the antiCHristian zionists who were making their plans well before the world wars.
new york and london comes up a lot.
so we had mormonism coming up at same time and guess what antiChristjoseph smith had his own "bible translation", and what was his focus...? romans 11
at the time our churches were postmillenialists, the era of
Hi Penny, I just looked at a short article about this on a site called faithalone concerning Arthur Pink. It says that Pink was initially a dispensationalist who also believed in Free Grace. But that when he abandoned dispensationalism, he also abandoned Free Grace in favour of a more Lordship Salvation type of soteriology. I find that a bit puzzling.

Now please note, anyone else reading this, that I was above quoting AN ARTICLE I read on the faithalone website, and cannot substantiate it or not. Thank you.

19

News Item1/16/18 3:33 PM
penned  Find all comments by penned
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dl moody got his dispensationalism from darby and the plymouth brethren.

but interestingly, these millenial groups were peculiar to the US during that era as seen here....

https://www.scribd.com/document/268063918/Preparing-for-Chrits-Millennial-Government

"Joseph Smith announced that God had, 'set his hand again the second time' to gather and establish Israel"

the Kingdom concept that we saw among the Matthew Henry postmills was replaced by the zionists who saught to build the earthly kingdom to initiate the Lord's return.

they lost the Kingdom ethic of the historical church because they created a new hermeneutic.

that is to say that they would read into the text a certain way. and as I said (I lack proof momentarily until I can find it again), John Macarthur said something to the effect that he comes to the scripture assuming there are two peoples of God.

"no longer Jew or Greek"

?

Darby "The Jewish nation is never to enter the Church."

AW Pink was so disturbed upon visiting Moody that he wrote a book about dispensationalism that is still available today.

Not to say that the fiction novels haven't led some to the Lord for the fervor of Christ, but we've emptied ourselves of the full teachings of the Kingdom, and instead raised up the talmudist

18

News Item1/16/18 2:48 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
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Dr. Tim wrote:
They do, however, believe in perkatory, that long period of anguish while you wait for coffee to brew.
Dr I do wish you'd stop making I larf, it is really quite dangerous for me.

However, I would like to go out tracting with you, as I only have tracts with KJV texts. You can give out your Left Behind tracts and I will give out my End of The World tracts. And if we get any converts or seekers, they can come to my Drop-In meeting and watch the Gospel Of John film (which is also in KJV). Coffee will have to be instant as I don't have a Perkatulator.

17

News Item1/16/18 2:03 PM
Dr. Tim | Southern U.S.  Find all comments by Dr. Tim
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They do, however, believe in perkatory, that long period of anguish while you wait for coffee to brew.
16

News Item1/16/18 1:15 PM
Unprofitable Servant | TN  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
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Do the research sister, Catholics don't believe in a pretrib Rapture

http://www.uscatholic.org/articles/201407/do-catholics-believe-rapture-29196

15

News Item1/16/18 12:02 PM
Unproftiable Servant | TN  Find all comments by Unproftiable Servant
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Penned has for a very long time misrepresented (as she has in this thread, pretrib rapture can be traced back to centuries before the Catholic church existed) the pre-millenial position and disdained the believers who view things different than her. She has been repeatedly advised that the information she gets and disseminates is inaccurate but apparently that doesn't seem to matter to her.

She is a sweet lady but her version of premillianilism is totally distorted and at times seems rooted in bitterness and contempt.

http://www.ldolphin.org/premillhist.html

14

News Item1/16/18 9:49 AM
penned  Find all comments by penned
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John UK wrote:
Penny, you have studied this subject and researched it,
yes, its quite the big one. now you might remember that there was a gentleman named Arthur W Pink who came to study with this new big name evangelist named DL Moody.

And what he encountered was the development of dispensationalism, which I believe has its origins with the antiCHristian zionists who were making their plans well before the world wars.

new york and london comes up a lot.

so we had mormonism coming up at same time and guess what antiChristjoseph smith had his own "bible translation", and what was his focus...? romans 11

at the time our churches were postmillenialists, the era of

13

News Item1/14/18 4:25 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
penned wrote:
I have thought a lot about this. and it certainly is a theological and spiritual issue. I will repost this....
https://world.wng.org/2013/10/not_bluffing
its an article about Jenkins, cowriter of the Left Behind series, Moody boardmember. He was going to Las Vegas for games.
meanwhile, Open Doors is sending in Christians risking their lives to encourage the brethren in Syria.
What a constrast!
The Lord will not be mocked!
"The pretrib rapture is a Catholic doctrine"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5V8X5nGPA0
the issue of the talmud and kabbal is inescapable for the dispensationalists. they are tied till they break away and only Christ can do this.
Penny, you have studied this subject and researched it, and I am only just beginning to see what it is you are saying.

Does Moody BI teach a pre-trib rapture? It begins to look that way, after reading that article. Left Behind sort of stuff.

If I'm getting your drift, you are saying that a faulty view of the endtimes produces a faulty sort of Christianity?

I don't know where talmud and kabbal come into this because I know nothing about them. But keep posting and I will pick it up slowly. Thank you.

12

News Item1/14/18 3:37 PM
penned  Find all comments by penned
John UK wrote:
The older I get, the more I see the need to return to the instructions given by the Lord in scripture concerning the church.
I have thought a lot about this. and it certainly is a theological and spiritual issue. I will repost this....

https://world.wng.org/2013/10/not_bluffing

its an article about Jenkins, cowriter of the Left Behind series, Moody boardmember. He was going to Las Vegas for games.

meanwhile, Open Doors is sending in Christians risking their lives to encourage the brethren in Syria.

What a constrast!

The Lord will not be mocked!

"The pretrib rapture is a Catholic doctrine"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5V8X5nGPA0

the issue of the talmud and kabbal is inescapable for the dispensationalists. they are tied till they break away and only Christ can do this.

11
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