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FRONT PAGE  |  7/18/2019
SATURDAY, JUN 24, 2017  |  210 comments
“Legislating Morality” Unbiblical?

People can’t genuinely come to know Jesus when pressured. That’s the whole reason God created us with free will. When we use political policy and influence to try to get people to live out Christian morality, it only pushes people to resent and reject Jesus.

Jesus’ intention is not that people be pressured to follow His commands regardless of whether they have surrendered their lives to Him or not. His commands are not meant to be followed apart from personal faith and relationship with Him. His commands can’t genuinely be followed apart from personal faith and relationship with Him.

Remember, obeying Jesus’ commands and being transformed by Him is preceded by faith in Him. And if we push Christian morals on people before they’ve had a chance to hear and willingly respond to the message of Christ, we will misrepresent Jesus to people and hurt them in the process. ...


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relevantmagazine.com

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 210 user comment(s)
News Item7/2/17 6:54 PM
Ignominious Emirakan | Honored  Find all comments by Ignominious Emirakan
Mike wrote:
May we then conclude that since immorality has been legislated, that Christians should nod heads because the "king" has said immorality is now law? Perhaps Paul did not take part in legislating because under Roman rule, there was no legislating for Paul to take part in? We are to obey the laws of the land, and this isn't Rome. We have the authority to change the laws.

Christians who believe the Church should be confined to its own four walls &should not influence government or society needs to re-read a Bible,
Matt. 5:13-14, Matt. 28:18 (“all authority in heaven and in earth”), Rev. 5:10,
Is. 9:6-7,
Ps. 2:8-12
Ps149:6 "Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword in their hand;
7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people;
8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;
9aTo execute upon them the judgment written:"
which shows that all of God’s saints have the honor of holding kings &nobles accountable to the two-edged sword, the word of GodHeb. 4:12
Jesus-the “king of kings” will have all civil authorities answer to him Rom 13:6He is presently working on this earth through His Church, which is to be the salt of the earth.
210

News Item7/2/17 5:23 PM
penned  Find all comments by penned
Jim, wow, Hal Lindsay is about as political as it gets and predicted his rapture by 1988.... that was a really deep thought.

you all don't notice that their propehcies change with every presidential change and change in military industrial agendas?

its laughable. I read a few of those books in the 90s, saddam was the great evil, Babylon in Iraq was bringing Armageddon, then I GREW UP and found out the relative of ambassador posed as that crying girl with the dying baby story and that saddam, although not a good guy, had protected Christians who have long been eradicated in many ways.

time to grow up from the fiction novel milk to the real Word.

209

News Item7/2/17 5:15 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Haman wrote:
In the book of Acts, we discover more of how Paul dealt with the civil authorities. At first he appealed to Rome, using his rights as a Roman citizen. But those authorities shipped him from one to another, seeking a bribe. He didn't pay the bribe and was sent to Rome, where things did not turn out well for him. We do not read of him having his 'day in court' and being judged innocent, free to go.
Despite all that, he still tells Timothy that we should pray for '...kings and all those in authority..'
We definitely do not read of him telling us to take any part in the legislating. So I guess the Bottom Line--the answer to the title question is YES, Legislating morality is not in the Bible. Just show me any case in the New Testament where Christians changed any legislation.
May we then conclude that since immorality has been legislated, that Christians should nod heads because the "king" has said immorality is now law? Perhaps Paul did not take part in legislating because under Roman rule, there was no legislating for Paul to take part in? We are to obey the laws of the land, and this isn't Rome. We have the authority to change the laws.
208

News Item7/2/17 4:37 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Penny, there's no high ground to dominionism, [URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=911141525440]]]The Bible's Perspective On World Affairs[/URL]. [URL=http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-WhatisDominionTheolo.pdf]]]What is Dominion Theology? (PDF)[/URL] and [URL=http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/hal-lindsey-dominion-theology-and-anti-semitism]]]http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/hal-lindsey-dominion-theology-and-anti-semitism[/URL] This latter file is in an HTML format that was very readable on my computer, but if it isn't on yours you can download it in a PDF format as well

It takes a large majority of the people to accept and make morality laws functional, e.g.,

Evans Andrews wrote:
“National prohibition went into legal effect upward of six years ago,” Maryland Senator William Cabell Bruce told Congress in the mid-1920s, “but it can be truly said that, except to a highly qualified extent, it has never gone into practical effect at all.”
--[URL=http://tinyurl.com/zycm6py]]]http://tinyurl.com/zycm6py (10 Things You Should Know About Prohibition)[/URL]

Yes, read the article that SA refererenced the writer did a good job.

207

News Item7/2/17 4:11 PM
penned  Find all comments by penned
Haman wrote:
In the book of Acts, we discover more of how Paul dealt with the civil authorities. At first he appealed to Rome, using his rights as a Roman citizen. But those authorities shipped him from one to another, seeking a bribe. He didn't pay the bribe and was sent to Rome, where things did not turn out well for him. We do not read of him having his 'day in court' and being judged innocent, free to go.
Despite all that, he still tells Timothy that we should pray for '...kings and all those in authority..'
We definitely do not read of him telling us to take any part in the legislating.
when they make a law to take pietists children as slaves for the Diana temples? like they used to take men's brides, we'll just let them?

laws have nothing to do with morality??...

this false pietism is nothing less of satanic anarchy.

there is huge ground between false piety and dominionism.

the first Christians refused the laws of the day that required pagan worship and were persecuted... if enough refuse their systems fall and there is peace on the land, which is why the temple industry went insane when the Christians refused Diana... their money flow would end and without a consensus their systems fell.

its the ebb and flow of church h

206

News Item7/2/17 4:05 PM
Haman | Esther, OT  Find all comments by Haman
In the book of Acts, we discover more of how Paul dealt with the civil authorities. At first he appealed to Rome, using his rights as a Roman citizen. But those authorities shipped him from one to another, seeking a bribe. He didn't pay the bribe and was sent to Rome, where things did not turn out well for him. We do not read of him having his 'day in court' and being judged innocent, free to go.
Despite all that, he still tells Timothy that we should pray for '...kings and all those in authority..'
We definitely do not read of him telling us to take any part in the legislating. So I guess the Bottom Line--the answer to the title question is YES, Legislating morality is not in the Bible. Just show me any case in the New Testament where Christians changed any legislation.
205

News Item7/2/17 3:45 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Romans 9:13-16 KJV
(13)  As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
(14)  What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
(15)  For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
(16)  So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Paul was well aware that his apostolic teaching would anger some people.

When he said, "What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? he was expecting such a response of anger towards the character and purposes of God from others. Not himself, but others. He himself says, "God forbid."

There is no unrighteousness with God - ever.

But when humanist humans see the apostolic teaching concerning God making a choice to save certain ones and leaving others in their sins to perish, they only have a couple of options to deal with their thoughts:-

1. They have to get angry with God.

2. They have to interpret Paul differently, and put God in a seemingly better light, one in which God loves everybody equally, in other words a god of their own making.

Of course the better (third) way is to believe Paul and become God-fearing and humbled.

204

News Item7/1/17 9:20 PM
ladybug  Find all comments by ladybug
This study from Pink is beneficial as well - https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/attributes_online.html#chapter4

As for God loving everyone, once again, Pink's studies on this are biblically accurate - http://www.chapellibrary.org/files/5814/1338/9048/dgle.pdf from that study,'Turning now to John 3:16, it should be evident from the passages just quoted that this verse will not bear the construction usually put upon it. “God so loved the world.” Many suppose that this means the entire human race. But “the entire human race” includes all mankind from Adam till the close of earth’s history; it reaches backward as well as forward! Consider, then, the history of mankind before Christ was born. Unnumbered millions lived and died before the Savior came to the earth, lived here “having no hope and without God in the world,” and therefore passed out into an eternity of woe. If God “loved” them, where is the slightest proof thereof? Scripture declares “Who [God] in times past [from the tower of Babel till after Pentecost] suffered all nations to walk in their own ways” (Act 14:16)." A.W. Pink

A preacher once stated a woman asked him how God could hate Esau, he said he was bewildered that God could love Jacob.

203

News Item7/1/17 8:27 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Christopher000 wrote:
Honestly, the words, "predestinated", and "Foreknew" in the scriptures I provided, really wrap it all up. To use the word, foreknew, to mean that God simply knew before time began who would "choose' him is the argument I used to use, but how do you get past, predestinated? I don't claim to understand, and the scriptures also say, for His good pleasure" when referring to predestination. Bottomline is that when we can't quantify a topic with our own human intellect and reasoning, we search for loopholes or anything reasonable and agreeable with our own understanding...how we would do things as we bring God down to our level.
You don't have to get past predestinated Chris. Maybe (or maybe not)this might be useful:

1 Peter 1:2
"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied"

According to means in agreement with; foreknowledge is self defined; through sanctification of the spirit is the how; unto obedience... is the purpose.

202

News Item7/1/17 8:21 PM
Dave | Oz  Contact via emailFind all comments by Dave
In scripture, something foreknown is presented as that which God gave prior decree to in and of His own pleasure and His Will.

1 Peter 1:2. Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
1 Peter 1:20. Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, KJV
The same Greek derivative translated ‘foreknowledge' is used yet translated “foreordained”.
Christ is the lamb of God ‘foreordained before the foundation of the world’.
Acts 15:18 . “known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world”.
Foreknowledge and foreordination are inextricably linked, otherwise God is not sovereign.
You cannot take the ‘ pre ‘ out of predestination. Jeremiah 1:5.

201

News Item7/1/17 8:16 PM
Dave | Oz  Contact via emailFind all comments by Dave
Creep, go away.
200

News Item7/1/17 8:15 PM
Dave | Oz  Contact via emailFind all comments by Dave
Luke 18:26And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?
27And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

"Our inability within man does not mean divine impossibility" (Terry Arnold)

199

News Item7/1/17 8:13 PM
SteveR | Mt Zion  Find all comments by SteveR
Mike wrote:
A more revealing question might be asked, did God ever love that which became Satan?
a murderer from the beginning

John 8:44   Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

198

News Item7/1/17 8:03 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Connor7 wrote:
---
One more thing, Does God love the devil unconditionally, or does God have a limited love for the Devil? (If there's a 3rd option I'll be willing to hear it.)
A more revealing question might be asked, did God ever love that which became Satan?
197

News Item7/1/17 7:18 PM
Connor7  Find all comments by Connor7
J4 quoted, "When we say God is sovereign in the exercise of His love, we mean He loves whom He chooses. God does not love everybody." (The Sovereignty of God, 3rd ed., pg 17)"

Pink says about a sentence or two before your quote, "God is sovereign in the exercise of His love." I have the book on my kindle Fire HD, so if you have the book with you this quote I'm about to give may be pg. 18 or 19,

"That the exercise of God's love is according to His own sovereign pleasure is also clear from the language of Ephesians 1:3-5" The context of both quotes has to do concerning salvation. I don't believe he disregards the benevolent love God has towards the unbelieving.

To take a quote out of context is sin, no Christian should be doing it. Do you even have the book? Because have the book in my hands.

One more thing, Does God love the devil unconditionally, or does God have a limited love for the Devil? (If there's a 3rd option I'll be willing to hear it.)

196

News Item7/1/17 6:32 PM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Honestly, the words, "predestinated", and "Foreknew" in the scriptures I provided, really wrap it all up. To use the word, foreknew, to mean that God simply knew before time began who would "choose' him is the argument I used to use, but how do you get past, predestinated? I don't claim to understand, and the scriptures also say, for His good pleasure" when referring to predestination. Bottomline is that when we can't quantify a topic with our own human intellect and reasoning, we search for loopholes or anything reasonable and agreeable with our own understanding...how we would do things as we bring God down to our level.
195

News Item7/1/17 6:28 PM
Dave | Oz  Contact via emailFind all comments by Dave
2 things
STEVE R. Is deviate, manipulative and not a Christian. Be warned DO NOT let your children on these threads whilst he is lurking.

Have any of you guys, that are not pushing a false works based gospel, ever read or seen a "marked edition" of John and Romans, by the " concerned, independent Baptist" Church in usa? I'm assuming you for the most part have.
After reading reading, it's no wonder j4 boasting is so completely wrong in his theology!
They've taken the kjv john and Romans, and blatantly corrupted god's word, and obviously people like John 4 suck it all in.
They've underlined verses, and direct you to read pages and chapters in their own order, not the order the scripture is written in, all this to deceive one into a works based doctrine. And these clowns say I've been raised in reformation theology. Well Der
Let's see we have Roman cult theology, and works based,no difference really both leave you hell bound.

194

News Item7/1/17 6:19 PM
Buckeyes | USA  Find all comments by Buckeyes
(TMC) @J4J
“There are examples of people making choices and believing on Jesus.”
Really? Then why did Jesus say “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you,”?
“nooo examples of God casting a spell on people in order to make them unconsciously believe, is there?”
Strawman argument. God opens blind sinners eyes to the truth of His Gospel and gives them grace to consciously believe in Him. No one believes there are “unconsciously believing” atheists out there!
Serious question- Is God sovereign, or is He enslaved to the whims of His creation?
BTW, what chapter of “Chosen by God” did you get that quote from? I couldn’t find it in our copy, but perhaps you have a different edition.
193

News Item7/1/17 5:52 PM
ladybug  Find all comments by ladybug
This is a good article concerning D. Hunt- https://michaeljeshurun.wordpress.com/2017/03/19/dave-hunts-scripture-twisting/

He is a 'favorite' of the free will club

192

News Item7/1/17 5:34 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Connor, this short article might help J4.

https://www.gty.org/library/Questions/QA193/Does-God-Love-Whom-He-Does-Not-Save

191
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