'We Are Not Dying, We Are Reforming,' Says PCUSA Leader
Stated Clerk the Rev. J. Herbert Nelson II issued a statement Wednesday in response to the latest statistical report on PCUSA's numbers.
While still the largest Presbyterian denomination in the country, in 2016 PCUSA saw a loss of nearly 90,000 members, slipping below the 1.5 million-member mark. This is nearly 300,000 fewer members than in 2013.
Regarding the report, Nelson said, "We are not dying. We are reforming," adding that PCUSA is "moving toward a new future as a denomination."
"Despite cries proclaiming the death of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), we remain a viable interfaith and ecumenical partner in many local communities while proclaiming a prophetic witness throughout the world," stated Nelson....
ladybug wrote: "the Bible clearly points out churches that aren't clannish. House churches are a temporary expedient when a real church can't be established." -- Chapter and verse please?
Hey sister! I saw your comment and wanted to respond before going to bed. He of course has no verses to support his position and I am glad you pointed that out.
When I mentioned house churches, I wasn't trying to say they are the only forms of worship, just a form that lends themselves to a close fellowship and heresy can be easily uprooted. As you know, I think that during the tribulation period they will be the only form that is available.
Jim Lincoln wrote: the Bible clearly points out churches that aren't clannish.
still working for the greater good, I see? wouldn't want anyone to escape, neighbors to help one another, or (horror) worship Christ together.... can they do that without approval from their local snitch... "if you see something, say something" ... the church in Smyrna had the same problem, insiders who would turn them in for their faith, is there a certification for meeting together without government approval?
House churches, Where are the elders? the Bible clearly points out churches that aren't clannish. House churches are a temporary expedient when a real church can't be established.
Dave Hunt wrote: In 1992, 12% of Americans claimed to be evangelical. That dropped to 9% in 1993, and to 7% in 1994. The polls donâ€™t confirm the great last-days revival touted on TBN but that todayâ€™s boasted â€śchurch growthâ€ť is largely a myth; 70-80% comes from transfers between churches. Absolute truth is rejected by 71% of Americans, 64% of â€śborn-agains,â€ť and 40% of â€śevangelicals.â€ť Most Presbyterians and Methodists and 88% of Roman Catholics active in their churches believe one enters heaven by being good enough. And 30% of â€śborn-againsâ€ť deny the physical resurrection of Christ!
Clearly those who make up these statistics know neither God nor His Word. They have religion but not Christ. Multitudes baptized into â€śChristianityâ€ť as infants do not personally know Him whom to know is life eternal (Jn 17:3; 1Jn 5:20). Loyalty to denomination substitutes for Christ....
--[URL=http://tinyurl.com/hbey9pa]]]http://tinyurl.com/hbey9pa (Church, Tradition or Christ?)[/URL].
Though we can hope denominations like PCUSA keep losing members.
Thanks Frank, and yes I am inclined to lean towards a house church also. Keep the churches deliberately smaller, and it is better for that church and better for the spreading of the gospel. It also helps towards keeping the commandment of Jesus to "love one another".
Also grateful thanks for the reminder of what it means to be a disciple of Jesus Christ. I reckon we need this reminder daily, as also the need to mortify daily, and to put off the rags of the old man.
The disease of Liberalism has already poisoned and killed the apostate PCUSA. They now belong to the dead cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. By discarding the Word and the Will of God they became the religious reprobates and served Satan.
The Church of Scotland has gone the same way and will be no more soon.
It seems they prefer the sin, the abomination to obeying the Lord. Which as Leviticus predicts they are now defiled.
"Lev 18:29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people."
John UK wrote: Numbers are never a test of whether or not a church is being blessed by God.
I agree fully with your comment and let me just add; neither is prosperity. I have always thought that the best form of worship was a house church. As we know that was the norm in the New Testament. In countries with extreme persecution, those types of churches are still the norm.
When I see or hear of a mega church, it sort of sets off an alarm. The message of Christ is one of repentance and a willingness to walk the often painful narrow road instead of the broad road. I often think of Hebrews chapter 11. Did our heavenly Father love those who He asked to give so much; of course He did. Hebrews 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy)they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
This is the narrow road we must be â€świllingâ€ť to walk.
Luke 14:26, If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
But the above are heart issues and the Lord knows our hearts.
-- "politic worms are e'en at "PCUSA --- - Hamlet Not where he eats, but where he is eaten. A certain convocation of politic worms are e'en at him. Your worm is your only emperor for diet. We fat all creatures else to fat us, and we fat ourselves for maggots. Your fat king and your lean beggar is but variable serviceâ€”two dishes, but to one table. Thatâ€™s the end. CLAUDIUS Alas, alas! HAMLET A man may fish with the worm that hath eat of a king, and eat of the fish that hath fed of that worm. CLAUDIUS What dost you mean by this? HAMLET Nothing but to show you how a king may go a progress through the guts of a beggar. CLAUDIUS Where is Polonius? HAMLET In heaven. Send hither to see. If your messenger find him not there, seek him i' th' other place yourself. But if indeed you find him not within this month, you shall nose him as you go up the stairs into the lobby. -- Some PCUSA members left to go to heaven- the PCUSA leaders could send a messenger to count how many. If not found there , PCUSA leaders can seek the rest in the other place themselves.
"Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" Mk 9:44,46,48 Scarey thot to them- scared of the diet of worms.
Rev3:1And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 2Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 4Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. ... 14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: -- Outside the door knocking to be let in
was taken by Nebuchadnezzar, his sons killed, he was blinded and imprisoned in Babylon, and the nation taken away for 70 years of captivity. Jeremiah, however, was released and honoured by the captain of the Babylonians, but even then the remaining Israelites left in Judah did not listen to him!!!
This further reminds me of the dying days of the Kingdom of Judah, where the last king, Zedekiah, surrounded himself with sinful young princes, flattering false prophets, and corrupt priests that told him he would defeat King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon that was right outside the walls of Jerusalem, and refused to listen to God's true prophet Jeremiah, who warned him if the coming judgment, and that as part of it he must surrender to the King of Babylon, but that if he repented, the nation would be restored and saved.
Instead King Zedekiah inprisoned the prophet, and kater was
Reforming,!!! A prophetic witness,!!! -really?! An LGBT supporting and ordaining, an anti-Semitic anti-Israel BDS denomination, that denies the Bible, that sings"Kumbaya" not only with other apostate denominations like the Episcopalians, so called "United Church of Christ", so called "Evangelical" Lutherans of North America, United Methodists and so on, preaches left wing politics and social justice ethics from its pulpits, but also joins hands with the Muslims to take over old churches and build mosques and say they worship the same God as the Christians!!!
Some Reformation, some prophetic witness!!! No Mr Nelson. John Calvin, John Knox, and many other Presbyterian and Reformed forefathers would not recognise the main Presbyterian denomination in the USA, and would denounce it firmly and forthrightly as a betrayal of the Reformation.
Back to the Bible, back to the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. That is the only solution for the individuals in this denomination, combined with them leaving this apostate group and becoming part of the true church of the Lord Jesus Christ.