Reformation 500: Evangelical Alliance Warns Against Compromise With Catholicism
Evangelicals have been urged to celebrate the Reformation as "essential" to Christianity and resist attempts to dilute differences between Protestants and Catholics.
The Evangelical Alliance's statement to mark the 500th anniversary of the Reformation, 500 Years of Protest, praised the split as a recovery of Jesus' teaching. It emphasised ongoing "points of divergence" between the two traditions as well as acknowledging efforts at reconciliation and convergence after centuries of mistrust.
Kev wrote: Hey Bro. Dave it could be a good clip but also could be a spiritual reality. Take for example these figures in the Bible: Arm as being ones power: Psalm 98:1 98 O sing unto the Lord a new song; for he hath done marvellous things: his right hand, and his holy arm, hath gotten him the victory. Sword as being the word of God: Ephesians 6:17 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: The eyes are understanding: Psalm 19:8 8 The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes. Zechariah 11:17 17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened. My understanding: beware the idol Pastor that doesn't tend to his congregation! The word of God shall be upon his power and upon his understanding. His strength shall leave him and be in spiritual darkness.
Idol shepherd not idle What a read, gotta love it.
The Great WHORE of Revelation-Shaun Willcock http://www.biblebasedministries.co.uk - cont - "If, indeed, the Roman Catholic institution is the Great Whore, then it is an institution utterly abhorred by God; a vile, antichristian institution, a monstrous counterfeit of the true Church of Christ. And the hundreds of millions of souls within it are lost and hell-bound, destitute of the saving grace of God. Let us, therefore, study the first six verses, in order.
In vs.1, this institution is called a whore. A whore, of course, is a harlot, a prostitute; and from vs.3 we see that a woman is meant. Now, the true Church of Jesus Christ is often described, symbolically, as a woman; but a "chaste virgin" in 2 Cor. 11:2, and as the bride, or wife, of Christ, in Eph. 5:22-33, Rev. 19:7, and Rev. 21:9. The Lord Jesus Christ is described as the Church's "husband", who loved the Church, and gave himself for it, in 2 Cor. 11:2 and Eph. 5:25; "that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish" (Eph. 5:27). The true Church is described as glorious, spotless, holy, without blemish. In Rev. 17, however, there is another type of woman set before us! This one is a harlot, filthy and vile
Dave wrote: Ey bro kev, Zechariah 11:17. "Woe" to the worthless shepherd, Who leaves his flock! A sword shall be against his arm and against his right eye; His arm shall completely whither, and his right eye shall be totally blinded.
Hey Bro. Dave it could be a good clip but also could be a spiritual reality. Take for example these figures in the Bible:
Arm as being ones power: Psalm 98:1
98 O sing unto the Lord a new song; for he hath done marvellous things: his right hand, and his holy arm, hath gotten him the victory.
Sword as being the word of God: Ephesians 6:17
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
The eyes are understanding: Psalm 19:8
8 The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.
17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.
My understanding: beware the idol Pastor that doesn't tend to his congregation! The word of God shall be upon his power and upon his understanding. His strength shall leave him and be in spiritual darkness.
"....in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified." Rev 11:8
"And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath." Rev 16:19
The Great WHORE of Revelation-Shaun Willcock In chapter 17, he(John describes "the great whore": and the interpretation of this symbolic prophecy has not been left open to conjecture. There is only one institution that has ever fulfilled this prophecy. And the Holy Spirit, in the very same chapter, provides infallible evidence as to which one it is. Vs.9 says: "And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth." And vs.18 says: "And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth." From these two verses, we learn that the "great whore" of this chapter is a great city; in fact, "that great city" â€“ the greatest of them all â€“ which rules over the kings of the earth. And it is a city built on seven mountains (or hills). Now, as has been well-known for many, many centuries, there is only one city that has always been known as "the city on seven hills" â€“ and that is Rome. And no other city that has ever existed has reigned over the earth as Rome has.With these facts in mind, we are able to correctly interpret the rest of the chapter. And there is overwhelming evidence that the Great Whore of this chapter is the great religio-political system known as the Roman Catholic "Church"
Revelations contrasts the "great city" (spiritual Sodom where our Lord was crucified, as it says) with the other "great city"...
"And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God" Rev 21:10
12 gates ae twelve tribes of the children of Israel, 12 foundations names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb
Regarding Rev 21:2, Matthew Henry...
"In this new world the apostle saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down from heaven, not locally, but as to its original: this new Jerusalem is the church of God in its new and perfect state, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband, beautified with all perfection of wisdom and holiness, meet for the full fruition of the Lord Jesus Christ in glory"
Ey bro kev, Zechariah 11:15-17. V.17 "Woe" to the worthless shepherd, Who leaves his flock! A sword shall be against his arm and against his right eye; His arm shall completely whither, and his right eye shall be totally blinded. Nkjv. Fairly likely a description after a smack up the ear. But still a physical description none the less
The prophesied Antichrist was not Hitler. He was not Mussolini, or Lenin, or Stalin, those monsters of iniquity who appeared on the stage of history for a few brief years, and then went the way of all the earth. He is not some Communist dictator, or Muslim fanatic, alive right now. The Antichrist is the pope of Rome. He is every pope of Rome. The present pope is the Antichrist, the previous pope was the Antichrist, and the pope to come will be the Antichrist. Antichrist is alive today, and Antichrist was alive a hundred years ago, and a thousand years ago. Christians in the Dark Ages came up against Antichrist, and Christians today face him still. Hear the Word of God!
Jesus said, "For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many" (Matt.24:5). Not just one man at the end of time, but many men, a succession of men, all claiming to come in the name of Christ, and each one of them claiming to be Christ. A succession of men, down through the centuries, one after another, each one spewing forth the same blasphemy. The Antichrist is the pope who is alive at any given moment.
Here is the description of anti-Christ. Keep in mind who it was written to and who the person being written to would think it is.
1 John 2:22
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
There is another religion who's fundamental statement is that Jesus is not the Son of God. I'm sure anyone can guess.
Should the Vatican be considered the temple of God?:
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
This is all so that people may know and be aware that something may pop up out of somewhere they weren't expecting maybe.
We all are guilty of interpreting scripture for our everyday life. But we have to realize how would the people who it was written for understand it. If say at the time there is no city at say the reformation then it is easy to look past the context of how the people written to would see say the phrase "Seven Hills" and would of interpreted that.
Nearly 3000 references to a physical temple or throne of David, I reckon it's literal. Anti Christ, is only used once at best twice in the New Testament. And it's revelation of Jesus Christ. Not revelations
The Present Pope, Like Every Pope Before Him, Is Antichrist . .
"And does the pope of Rome confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh? Â No, he does not. Oh, he may do it with his lips, saying, "I confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh"; but this is not the meaning of the words. And yes, he may confess such doctrines as the true divinity and humanity of Christ; but the words are not limited to these doctrines. To confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is to confess all the truth about Christ, as revealed in His Word: that He alone is the way to the Father; that there is salvation in no other; that He alone is the Head of the Church; that to eat His flesh and drink His blood, is to partake of Him spiritually, by faith, and not physically; that His sacrifice was perfect and complete and never to be repeated; etc., etc. All these great truths, the popes deny."
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Same language talking to Israel:
45 My people, go ye out of the midst of her...
Is there an effectual call of bringing out the people of God in other scripture:
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Note above they aren't called Israel until ungodliness is taken from her.
20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord.
If you go by scripture interprets scripture you may very well get another understanding.
"Mystery Baybylon" is guilty of the blood of the prophets. I don't think Rome has killed any "prophets". But who has Matthew 23:37.
"shall never mourn"=God can't punish we disobeyed & R fine
Kev wrote: So it seems pretty clear mystery Babylon called 'the great city' in Rev 18:16 is Jerusalem notice what Rev calls 'the great city':
thank you Lurker and Kev for this conversation. Futurism is a new hermeneutical system based on darby/scofield, many think the Catholics and the Pre-world war Zionists had a hand in it at oxford press....and it cuts off revelations as the future. (ignoring the strong warning at the end of the book not to cut it off)
I am of the belief that Revelations is for the believer to help them endure till the end.
and yes, it is clearly said there what Kev described, the great city, where Jesus was crucified, that being spiritual Sodom.
this doesn't make the RCC any better or worse but the spiritual root is brought back to the great city as opposed to the New Jerusalem, as written in Revelations.
Problem with futurists is that their theology weds them to physical Jerusalem, and they heed not the warnings of revelations because they are falsely told these things are the future.
if the religious system denies Christ came it the flesh, then it is antichrist.
Richard Bennett - Rev. 17: The revelation of God shows forth the attire and possessions of the Apostate system, â€śAnd the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornicationâ€ť (v. 4). Scarlet, the usual color of the robes of kings and military men, was and still is the favorite color of Papal Rome. Cardinals for example, are clothed all in scarlet. Papal patriarchs, metropolitan archbishops, archbishops and bishops wear purple and â€śthe Pectoral crossâ€ť. â€śThe Pectoral crossâ€ť is declared by Rome to be â€śdecorated with gems; that of a bishop usually contains relics of a martyr.â€ť22 Papal Rome has the â€śthe golden cupâ€ť in the chalice on her altar, which must be gold or gold-plated. Biblically, gold represents perfection and the things of God. Deceptively Rome offers a â€śpureâ€ť outward display, but of her Eucharistic use of that golden cup she states, â€śâ€¦in the sacrifice of the Mass Our Lord is immolated.â€ť23 In Scripture Lord Jesus Christâ€™s perfect sacrifice was once offered.24 Thus the golden cup she holds out as the center of her worship to God is filled with the most odious of abominations, an apt image to denote her idolatry and superstition.
Rev. 17:5 expounded by former RC priest & founder of Berean Beacon Ministries
The Apostle John beheld the ten-horned beast carrying a woman dressed in purple and scarlet, decked with gold, precious stones, and pearls, a harlot, and the mother of harlots and abominations. She is the paramour of kings, merciless, cruel, intoxicated with the blood of the saints and of the martyrs of Christ Jesus. These symbols are brilliantly portrayed. â€śThe seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sittethâ€ť (v 9).This the Holy Spirit clarifies by proclaiming, â€śthe woman which thou sawest is that great city which reigneth over the kings of the earthâ€ť (v 18). The city indisputably is Rome. The name upon the harlotâ€™s brow is â€śmysteryâ€ť (v 5). She cannot be heathen Rome of which there was no mystery because her character was never concealed. â€śChristianâ€ť Rome, however, is a mystery, for she is not what she appears. Babylon, in the book of Revelation, is a city and a harlot. Jerusalem, in the same book, is a city and a bride. Babylon is the fraudulent lover of earthly kings; Jerusalem, the chaste bride of the King of Kings. The contrast is between the faithful Church and the Apostate Church. Chapter Seventeen thus describes in detail the character of the Apostate Church.â€ť
John Gill come out of her, my people; meaning either his elect ones, till now uncalled, being such whom God had chosen for his people, and were so by virtue of the covenant of grace, were given to Christ as his people, and were redeemed by him, though, till this call, in an unconverted state; or else such who had been secretly called by the grace of God, but had not made a public profession of the Gospel, nor bore an open testimony against the Romish idolatry; for as the Lord had a righteous Lot in Sodom, and saints where Satan's seat was, Rome Pagan, so he will have a people in Rome Papal, at the time when its destruction draws near; and these wilt be called out, not only in a spiritual sense, to quit the communion of the church, to forsake its idolatries, and not touch the unclean thing, separate themselves from her, and bear a testimony against her doctrines and worship, but in a literal sense, locally; they shall be bid to come out of her, as Lot was ordered to go out of Sodom before its burning, and the people of the Jews out of Babylon before the taking of it, ( Jeremiah 50:8 ) ( 51:45 ) to which reference is here had: and as the Christians were called out of Jerusalem before the destruction of it: this shows the particular knowledge the Lord has of his people - cont.
Kev wrote: You want to know why I believe it's called mystery Babylon. It's because for the Jews to be returned to the land of their fathers this must happen:
As you continue to grow in Christian maturity and interact with other Christians, you'll find that tradition holds powerful sway. Don't let that discourage you.
Add this thought to your studies:
Biblically speaking, a whore, harlot and the queen of heaven, all of which is attributed to Mystery Babylon, was at one time married to God...... at one time a faithful wife. I can't think of anyone in their right mind who could possible believe the magisterium of the RCC was EVER married to God...... especially those who spend all their time arguing AGAINST the RCC. The very though is an insult to God.
But when it comes to 500 year old traditions...... I don't bother arguing.