2 Kings 18 had a good example when Hezekiah Destroyed Idolatry in Judah --
1Now it came to pass in the third year of Hoshea son of Elah king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah began to reign. 2Twenty and five years old was he when he began to reign; and he reigned twenty and nine years in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Abi, the daughter of Zachariah. 3And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that David his father did. 4He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.
5He trusted in the LORD God of Israel; so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor any that were before him. 6For he clave to the LORD, and departed not from following him, but kept his commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses.
-- The irony that OBEDIENCE to Moses' teaching meant DESTROYING
THE Nahustan object (fashioned by Moses!) shows that our sentimentality over religious objects is fallen human nature- We struggle with desire to see "things" vs a faithful vision.
Mike,the good news is that the image that can't get off the cross is a fake - an apt representation of those who hold it so dear. No resurrection = vain religion Leaving "Christ" on the cross is blasphemy and an affront to his resurrection. Good news-He's at the right hand of the Father interceding for his children!
Somewhat messed up the tinyURL for the excellent article by Arthur Noble on the Ian Paisley site. [URL=http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=relics]]]http://tinyurl.com/jh3syrc (The Relics of Romanism)[/URL], but for people reading it in with a mobile device this should work well.
Fingernails, well some monks can top that!
Arthur Noble wrote: What was allegedly the crib of Jesus was exhibited for veneration every Christmas Eve at St. Mary Major's in Rome. Several churches claimed to have the baby clothes of Jesus. The Church of St. James in Rome displayed what was claimed to be the altar on which Jesus was placed when He was presented in the temple. Even the foreskin (from His circumcision) was shown by the monks of Charroux,
Excellent written article, from a very good site, I would add.
Mike wrote: Hi John, yes, human body parts seem more important than the body of Christ, which my former association won't take down from the cross. There is a fascination with death which some have who claim tone Christian. It spills over into secular life as well.
Aye Mike, I saw a painting once of St Francis of Assissi and he had a skull on his table, which he said was to remind him of his own mortality.
John UK wrote: Hey Mike, we haven't talked in a long time, have missed your cryptic comments. I remember seeing a documentary some years ago, on religion, and in some cathedral in London (I think) there was an unveiling of the contents of a reliquary, most precious items (body parts), such as bits of bone, a half finger, a tooth, some hair - that sort of thing.
Hi John, yes, human body parts seem more important than the body of Christ, which my former association won't take down from the cross. There is a fascination with death which some have who claim tone Christian. It spills over into secular life as well.
Wayfarer Pilgrim wrote: It seems incredibly pagan. What did the church do with the ashes of Wycliffe?
If memory serves the Romish Church tossed them in a river--and he was actually a saint!
Dr. Arthur Noble wrote: Even if we did have one of Mary's hairs, or a bone of the apostle Paul, or the robe of Jesus, would God be pleased with these things being used as objects of worship? According to the example of the brass serpent of Moses, He would not. If there is no real virtue in the actual hair, bone, or robe, how much less merit can there be in relics which are known to be fakes?
excerpt from, [URL=http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=relics]]] http://preview.tinyurl.com/jh3syrc (The Relics of Romanism)[/URL]
thank you Ignominious, "My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war." Jer 4:19
Psalm 22 Do not be far from me, for trouble is near and there is no one to help. Many bulls surround me; strong bulls of Bashan encircle me. Roaring lions that tear their prey open their mouths wide against me. I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint. My heart has turned to wax; it has melted within me. My mouth is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth; you lay me in the dust of death. Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me; they pierce my hands and my feet. All my bones are on display; people stare and gloat over me. They divide my clothes among them and cast lots for my garment. But you, Lord, do not be far from me. You are my strength; come quickly to help me. Deliver me from the sword, my precious life from the power of the dogs. Rescue me from the mouth of the lions; save me from the horns of the wild oxen. I will declare your name to my people; in the assembly I will praise you.
SteveR wrote: Back on topic, as to what body parts should be considered in soteriology. Now I understand why this verse was edited from most New age bible versions. Believing with all thine toes wouldn't have sounded as sincere FROM the KJV Acts 8:37 Â And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
When the Bible speaks of the heart do you think it means the literal heart?
These Catholic people are bowing before a heart that was cut from one of their "saints".
This is morbid I hope you are not standing up for the RCC in this practice Steve. Never heard you ever protest or speak about reform of the RCC. Do you believe that such people like Calvin and Luther did all they did and have to leave the country in fear for their lives for confronting minor errors that don't need addressing. You seem much different then most Presbyterians I have ever heard about.
John Y could really use some encouragement by you to get him straightened out.
John Y is the "non" Catholic Catholic and you seem to be the the non Protestant Protestant.
Think Twice: How the Gut's "Second Brain" Influences Mood and Well-Being
"As Olympians go for the gold in Vancouver, even the steeliest are likely to experience that familiar feeling of "butterflies" in the stomach. Underlying this sensation is an often-overlooked network of neurons lining our guts that is so extensive some scientists have nicknamed it our "second brain".
A deeper understanding of this mass of neural tissue, filled with important neurotransmitters, is revealing that it does much more than merely handle digestion or inflict the occasional nervous pang. The little brain in our innards, in connection with the big one in our skulls, partly determines our mental state and plays key roles in certain diseases throughout the body.
Although its influence is far-reaching, the second brain is not the seat of any conscious thoughts or decision-making."
Visceral reaction:grounded in High Modern Science
"My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war." Jer 4:19
kjg wrote: Does anyone know if the RCC venerates toenail clippings of the saints? ðŸ˜‡
The nail clippings of St Clare are displayed at Assisi in a rock crystal flask.
[URL=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/art/8565805/Treasures-of-Heaven-Saints-Relics-and-Devotion-in-Medieval-Europe-British-Museum.html]]]Yes- Telegraph Uk extensive documentation [/URL]
By the later Middle Ages the cult of relics was decadent, and widely ridiculed. Already in the 14th century the trade was satirised by Boccaccio, whose character Friar Cipolla sells one of the Angel Gabrielâ€™s feathers, which he claims fell to the floor during the annunciation. Chaucerâ€™s Pardoner had a stock including a pillow made of the Virginâ€™s veil and a piece of the sail of St Peterâ€™s boat. In the 16th century, the reformer Calvin protested that there were enough pieces of the true Cross in circulation to build a boat.
Wittenberg, where Luther nailed his theses and began the Reformation, was in Frederick the Wiseâ€™s Saxony. The Electorâ€™s vast collection of relics was not seen in public after his death in 1525. The reliquaries were presumably melted down, the relics thrown away. All that now remains is a single cut-glass beaker, once contained a relic - valued as "Luther owned"
this mention of bible versions and this comment got me to thinking " Believing with all thine toes wouldn't have sounded as sincere"
back in the day, they would use idioms of speech or figures of speech, like "I love you with my whole kidneys" and other seeming oddities but you think about love and how it hits you in the gut and then understand the figure of speech and how they spoke it back then, this is what i think about believing with all thine toes, it sounds right for a stone aged people, there's nothing earth shattering between that and whole heart.
back to topic, has anyone seen any good articles talking about the "holy gloom" associated with these relics?
Hey Connor, SteveR is a romanist shill and NOT a brother in Christ. Perhaps someday the Lord may call him but at present he is an enemy of the cross and the Lord's people. Yes, his posts need to be ignored, even better when they are deleted.
Mike wrote: Might as well have been a toe, or an ear. But the imagination runs when speaking of the heart.
Hey Mike, we haven't talked in a long time, have missed your cryptic comments.
I remember seeing a documentary some years ago, on religion, and in some cathedral in London (I think) there was an unveiling of the contents of a reliquary, most precious items (body parts), such as bits of bone, a half finger, a tooth, some hair - that sort of thing.