British churches on TERROR ALERT: Uk police issue warning for Christian places of worship
Deputy Assistant Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police Neil Basu said: â€œFollowing recent events in France, we are reiterating our protective security advice to Christian places of worship and have circulated specific advice today.
â€œWe are also taking this opportunity to remind them to review their security arrangements as a precaution.
John UK wrote: Oh, St James, forgot to say hello earlier. How are things, man? You seem to be lurking more than The Lurker these days.
That gave me a great laugh Brother. I continually am blessed daily in more ways than I can express. His love and His guidance is truly a sight to behold. I pray things are all spiritually blessed for you in Wales these days.
Mike wrote: Me too. If only they could be everywhere for the times they can't prevent these things we see increasingly. We sure do lay a lot of responsibility for the impossible on the unable, don't we?
We sure do, Mike. Which is why the Lord instructs us to trust in him, rather than in man. It's not easy to do, but when we do it, our trust could not be in a better place. He is the Living God (not a mere concept) and he has dealings in everyday life, affecting and influencing even the ungodly, if it please him, in order to bring about his will and purpose.
John UK wrote: --- This is what we're up against, and I for one am glad that there are governmental departments who spend all their time seeking to prevent things like this. I even see it as a provision of God. ---
Me too. If only they could be everywhere for the times they can't prevent these things we see increasingly. We sure do lay a lot of responsibility for the impossible on the unable, don't we?
Allie wrote: BRF and John Uk, these folks are against anyone not Muslim. This isn't particular to Christians or Christianity. Also, Luke 22:36 Jesus tells the disciples to buy a sword. Apostle Paul appealed to governing authorities to save his hyde from the Jews.
Hi Allie and God bless.
I am only commenting on the news item, not anything else.
In the UK, which is what this news item is all about, we may not purchase a sword (or any weapon) to take to church with us, for self protection.
However, we can appeal to the governing authorities to grant us civil protection in the face of terror attacks.
MS did mention Nehemiah and the rebuilding of the walls fully armed. However, that was under a theocracy and all Israel was a fighting force.
When we come to the NT, the teachings of Jesus go contrary to the flesh (self preservation) and focus on the spirit (denying self, taking up a cross, and following him). Where shall we follow him? To crucifixion of course. Without this, there is no Christian experience but mere form or nominal Christianity. A man carrying a cross is not going back, he is going to his death. But he has eternal life because he is "crucified with Christ" and lives the Christ-life. This is crucial.
John, all scripture is giving for inspiration, instruction, reproof, and correction...as I Tim 3:16 states. I gave you a verse and example of Apostle Paul. Someone else mentioned Nehemiah. If you are struggling with applying scripture which transcends time and culture well ok. We have all been there. To talk about me hiding my light because I would defend myself and others around me if a nut in the name of religion attacked us is just nonsense and not consistent with my response. Others said what I was saying. Some of this is cultural. Europeans for the most part get all squirmy about guns and knives. Americans as a whole don't. Our 2nd Amendment understands their is a such thing as tyranny and self preservation. God given right. By the way, I witness frequently. My coworkers know I profess Christ. So do my immediate neighbors and family. I share Christ with some contacts daily. I have gone to a couple of public venues under church leadership and passed out tracts. I am more comfortable sharing Christ amongst those I rub shoulders with than strangers, but will do it. Folks on message boards need to stop trippin and saying crazy stuff and think before posting. I have been guilty of it and try to be more careful.
Mike wrote: Sad, bro. Governments seem always to drift toward thinking they are your mother, protecting adult toddlers from the scratches and bruises of life, whereas real Mums know when their children grow up.
Mike, in situations like this, it is a definite requirement to avoid an atrocity, that intelligence be sufficiently gathered by a professional body (say CI5) and any attack be thwarted before it even begins. There really isn't any other way.
A church member can be fully armed, with an assault rifle, rocket launcher, grenades, and anything else you want to put in his pocket, but it won't help against a suicide bomber whose bomb is going to go off even if he's shot dead.
This is what we're up against, and I for one am glad that there are governmental departments who spend all their time seeking to prevent things like this. I even see it as a provision of God. ____________
Oh, St James, forgot to say hello earlier. How are things, man? You seem to be lurking more than The Lurker these days.
How much a nation loves its citizens can determine how well a nation can survive war. But, if we don't declare war, this will continue to just be murders by fanatics. On another note, Islamic immigrants are being brought into Europe because birth rates in Europe ( years of abortion and birth control) has lowered the sustainability of a nation to nothing. Islamic immigration is not the answer.
We've been left to allow for the natural order of things and the freewill of man to play out. If I were to jump off a building tonight, praying with all faith beforehand that God would have an angel catch me, etc, I'd have an appointment with death tonight. If I were to break my leg, and pray over it, refusing to see a doctor to have it set, I'd be disabled for life. If some thugs were planning to crash my home tonight, torture, murder and rob me, I would be dying tonight. Faithful Christians, preachers, missionaries, and children the world over get raped, abused, and murdered daily because of mans freewill and Satan's current charge over the earth. I believe that God does intervene at His pleasure, but for the most part, I believe He expects us to utilize the common sense he gifted most of us with, and in this case, to do our due diligence in protecting ourselves. I just can't imagine God expecting anyone to watch as some thug, terrorist, or lunatic casually stabs loved ones, etc, to death when there's a weapon, etc, a foot away thay would stop Satan's little party. I don't understand such logic, but these are just my personal thoughts on these topics. For the record, I'd do my best to injure, not mortally wound.
Mike wrote: There is difference in being persecuted or even martyred for one's faith, and defense of oneself or those God has entrusted to us for reason other than persecution. Context is important. The question is would God allow for people to employ arms to defend themselves?
Me: Your probably right Mike it was hard to understand the content because people introduced scenarios about breaking into your home and defending others. I probably was on the wrong topic then. Sorry if I got mixed up Mike.
John UK wrote: --- I am looking for a practical application of scripture. Bear in mind that in the UK we are not even permitted to carry a small penknife outside our houses. KJG, ---
Sad, bro. Governments seem always to drift toward thinking they are your mother, protecting adult toddlers from the scratches and bruises of life, whereas real Mums know when their children grow up.
Kev wrote: Yes this comment was about the martyrdom of Paul and BRF also used the word martyrdom in his comment. I think the context was in the case of martyrdom. I do not know how it got changed. Sometimes hard to follow with a bunch of different posters. I think this is the original context in this post.
For the sake of clarity, the original context for the shift in direction the thread went is- Allie said "John from UK, you folks need to be armed." BRF replied "We are to trust in God not guns." Christian said "@BRF:Amen We love our enemies and turn the other cheek..." Mike asked if God never used armed people to defend themselves or to destroy others? BRF replied "When the apostle Paul faced death for his faith he neither took up arms nor encouraged others to either."
kjg wrote: John UK, My historical examples does not apply to the current UK because your politicians have disarmed you. However, where I live, some people conceal and carry firearms when they attend church and no one raises an eyebrow. Tennessee has a long history with firearms. It is not uncommon for someone to go out and shoot firearms during the weekend. This week, I got out my firearms to go after some predators attacking my livestock.
KJG Thanks for that. It must be as difficult for you to understand what it is like here, as it is for me to understand what it is like there.
We have never had any fear attending church, any church. No trouble, no attacks, nothing.
This might all change, of course. But my principle has always been, not to kill anyone. And that will remain unchanged.
We too have farmers who are permitted firearms, for shooting of predators etc. But they are rarely seen, most people live in the towns and cities.
My historical examples does not apply to the current UK because your politicians have disarmed you. However, where I live, some people conceal and carry firearms when they attend church and no one raises an eyebrow. Tennessee has a long history with firearms. It is not uncommon for someone to go out and shoot firearms during the weekend. This week, I got out my firearms to go after some predators attacking my livestock.
Allie wrote: John, what are you talking about? Did you read my post?
Sure I did, Allie.
For example, what point were you making when you mentioned that Jesus told his disciples to ensure they had some swords, at the time just leading up to his being taken? What did he expect his disciples to do with those swords?
More importantly, how is that relevant to 2016, and what is today's equivalent? I am looking for a practical application of scripture. Bear in mind that in the UK we are not even permitted to carry a small penknife outside our houses.
KJG, That's a very interesting piece of history. And the modern equivalent is what? Two men with flack jackets under the pulpits of our churches carrying AK47's? Not permitted in the UK in 2016, not even in Scotland.
Mind you, I have been to one meeting in England where there was two or more men carrying semi-autos (hidden). I know they were armed because I asked one of them and tried to witness to him. The preacher was Ian Paisley and they were bodyguards (political). They stalked the whole church, keeping an eye out for assassins.
On the other hand, Anabaptist who do not possess weapons, fled when persecuted. Regardless, the Church is persecuted whether members are armed or not armed. This issue is not one to divide over from one and another.