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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  2/20/2020
SUNDAY, DEC 20, 2015  |  26 comments
New DUP leader: Marriage is between a man and a woman

The new leader of the largest political party in Northern Ireland, Arlene Foster, has said that her party “very firmly” believes that marriage is between a man and a woman.

Foster will become Northern Ireland’s First Minister in January, after she was backed to become the leader of the DUP by the party’s MPs and Assembly members.

Speaking on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme, she said civil partnerships are the way that same-sex relationships are recognised in Northern Ireland.


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 26 user comment(s)
News Item12/23/15 9:36 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Mourner wrote:
Appreciated your thoughts. A perfect example of not understanding the seriousness of oaths and vows was
cookie lacking example. I was shocked at the lack of the fear of God in what was stated.
That is the kind of thing warned of in the NT Scripture. I believe in the text you mention Jacob wanted to call God to witness what Esau said and he agreed to it at the time. As far as Esau was concerned it meant if I fail to keep my word, God is the witness against me. God forgives sin but chastens his own, see Hebrews 12:5 to the end of the chapter where this incident is spoken of regarding Esau. God differentiates not based on men's works but Christ's on their behalf. One can choose not to vow.
I believe we lack the fear of God, as we ought. I also believe He is patient knowing we do greatly lack the normal means of grace, but if the Lord condescends to teach us he will expect more from us.
Pro 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
Thanks for your thoughts sister and it was my comprehension, not your writing that was lacking. I enjoy discussing things that I have never pondered or meditated on before and this was one of them.

Sorry for being slow to respond.

26

News Item12/23/15 9:15 PM
Mourner  Find all comments by Mourner
Not sure it isn't in part my ability to articulate what I'm trying to say. To put thoughts into words is not easy, for a wordy woman in post it notes.

Appreciated your thoughts. A perfect example of not understanding the seriousness of oaths and vows was
cookie lacking example. I was shocked at the lack of the fear of God in what was stated.

That is the kind of thing warned of in the NT Scripture. I believe in the text you mention Jacob wanted to call God to witness what Esau said and he agreed to it at the time. As far as Esau was concerned it meant if I fail to keep my word, God is the witness against me. God forgives sin but chastens his own, see Hebrews 12:5 to the end of the chapter where this incident is spoken of regarding Esau. God differentiates not based on men's works but Christ's on their behalf. One can choose not to vow.
I believe we lack the fear of God, as we ought. I also believe He is patient knowing we do greatly lack the normal means of grace, but if the Lord condescends to teach us he will expect more from us.

Pro 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

25

News Item12/23/15 7:12 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Mourner,
Well, this is no fault of yours but I am still not sure what the issue is. I read through all of the scriptures that pertained to taking vows or taking oaths. I found it easier to not use the
WCF but the scriptures alone. The commandments were not mentioned and neither were the scriptures pertaining to Joshua. So, I am at a loss.

But here are my thoughts on oath taking. There were of course instances in the OT where it appears that people took oaths and as long as they kept their oaths, all was well. Some oaths were unto the Lord, such as Genesis 14:22-23 and some weren’t such as Genesis 25:33. Now in all cases when oaths were taken, the person taking the oath was obliged to perform what was in question.

Now, as I noted earlier, it would appear that Christ told mankind that it was better to not take oaths because they had no control over their lives or their circumstances, so they should simply say yes or no. Numbers 30:2 and Deuteronomy 23:21 clearly show that if an oath was taken unto the Lord, then they should do it. I suppose a lot of this is dependent on whether we intended to make an oath or not.

I know in my life that I have sworn to the Lord to do something that I didn't do. I have confessed that to the Lord and He has forgiven me.

24

News Item12/23/15 3:58 PM
Mourner  Find all comments by Mourner
Frank wrote:
Is your point that it is okay for folks to use vows and oaths under certain conditions as long as they don't violate those oaths.
I put up the WCF Chap 22 also, with proof texts. Read the proof texts as they are given so you're looking at bite size portions. For an oath or vow to be binding there is Scriptural requirements. It is forswearing, to my understanding, to vow or take an oath that is not in agreement with Scripture. If one is asking the Lord Jesus Christ to be their second, as their Mediator - the only one qualified, like Joshua the type in Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Now remember he is a national representative and he says to the elders Jos 24:19-20 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins. If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good. I began here.
23

News Item12/23/15 11:27 AM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Mourner wrote:
I'll prayerfully await your thoughts. The Lord has brought you and my sister in law to mind in recent days.
I have the WCF chapter 22 up right now and am reading it. Is your point that it is okay for folks to use vows and oaths under certain conditions as long as they don't violate those oaths. Please be patient with me if I have not understood, but I will study the chapter 22 and respond accordingly. I just want to make sure I have understood the issue you are thinking about.
22

News Item12/23/15 8:47 AM
Mourner  Find all comments by Mourner
Frank wrote:
Okay
I'll prayerfully await your thoughts. The Lord has brought you and my sister in law to mind in recent days.
21

News Item12/22/15 10:44 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Mourner wrote:
WCF Chapter 22 it is on Lawful Oaths and Vows. Consider what it says in the light of Scripture.
Okay
20

News Item12/22/15 7:50 PM
Mourner  Find all comments by Mourner
@ Frank,

About oaths and vows in Matthew and James as regards swearing - it is in the name of anyone or thing other than God for to forswear is to violate the terms of oaths and vows set down by Scripture. God is unchangeable and he states
Lev 19:12 And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD. Isa_65:16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.
Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain

WCF Chapter 22 it is on Lawful Oaths and Vows. Consider what it says in the light of Scripture.

I am so much impressed with the brevity of time and the importance of the things that truly matter. When I say that I do not expect, related to unfulfilled prophesy to see the return of Christ in my life time yet related to our duration in time, life hastens a pace and there is much to do. We're not getting any younger and things are changing fast. If you are so inclined, listen to his series on Prophecy I just finished hearing Rev. 20 today.

19

News Item12/22/15 4:11 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Mourner,

I am listening to the message you suggested on the “fall of man” and the consequences. It does appear to be long, but I am about 25 minutes into it and so far, I agree with all. Anyway, I will try and get through it and let you know if I had any real problem with it. This is the first time I have listened to anything from a catechism. I’m not a big fan of that concept, but for you I will do this.

Based on the below, I think scripture teaches we should not swear an oath unto the Lord. I’m still not sure how that ties in with any of the commandments, but I see absolutely no dilemma.

Matthew 5:33. Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34. But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35.Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36.Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

18

News Item12/22/15 1:27 PM
Mourner  Find all comments by Mourner
@ Frank
Good afternoon. You mentioned that vows were not for today; that would be related to the Third Commandment and how we worship God, the Fourth Commandment is related to when and I think you'd agree, not all professed Christian's agree on the particulars of what heart felt, imperfect keeping of these Commandments *in Christ's imputed righteousness* should look like.

My thoughts for commenting were on
1 Cor. 7 Paul's addressing a woman's vow that needed her father's approval to be binding, that's Paul's NT take in agreement with your quoted text from Numbers 30.

I believe this is the sermon I was referring to http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=1218151234311 otherwise it was the one before it, but I think it was this one. You might like his 'Bossy Wives, Effeminate Men'. I listened to that with my eldest and it was hard for sinners to hear that know better.

The one you inquired about is not short but if you hear it out and want to give your thoughts, I'd appreciate it.

17

News Item12/22/15 12:54 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Mourner wrote:
@ Frank,
I did know where the comment came from following the various threads. Patriarchial movement?
Question so now we can removed both the third and the fourth Commandment? On what Scriptural warrant?
What I listened to, addressed what you quote here from Numbers. That it was Adams sin, that was imputed for exactly the reason you quote below. Eve was first in the transgression, yes, but if Adam had interposed and not joined her the result would not have been original sin imputed to posterity for Eve did not have the headship that allowed her to act without Adam.
There was so much to consider in the message that is why I thought of you. It wasn't a vague point, it had very serious ramifications, but for me, it not easily sorted out. Sin is the cause of all our misery in this life and when there is any way for us to avoid it personally, it is not only in our own personal best interest but in the interest of all under our charge, and all those we influence for good or evil.
What message are you referring to? Why do you feel the 3rd and 4th commandments are coming into question?

I enjoyed reading your comments on inputed sin. I would also enjoy listening to the sermon you are referring to.

16

News Item12/21/15 10:21 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Frank wrote:
Good morning Mike!
How much is a little?
And, if you want to quantify this for some reason, then I would simply say a little leaven leavens the whole lump.
Hi Frank. My point is the lump in this case is sufficiently leavened of its own accord. History is proof enough. Else where have all the male-led nations gone? This is not an argument in favor of women dictators or presidents. Just opposition to the idea that men leaders make it better.
15

News Item12/21/15 9:21 AM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Mike wrote:
People that deny God and his authority are sooner or later put down. The gender of the leaders of their nations has little to do with it.
Good morning Mike!

How much is a little?

And, if you want to quantify this for some reason, then I would simply say a little leaven leavens the whole lump.

14

News Item12/21/15 8:06 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Cory pierce wrote:
Isn't it God's judgement on a nation when he allows a woman to rule over it? Every nation that had a woman rule was soon destroyed?
People that deny God and his authority are sooner or later put down. The gender of the leaders of their nations has little to do with it.
13

News Item12/20/15 7:42 PM
cookie lacking | needing cookies  Find all comments by cookie lacking
So if my wife swears off of baking cookies to save my waistline I can disallow it?
I'm dead serious, I need them cookies.
12

News Item12/20/15 7:39 PM
Cory pierce | portage mi  Contact via emailFind all comments by Cory pierce
Isn't it God's judgement on a nation when he allows a woman to rule over it? Every nation that had a woman rule was soon destroyed?
11

News Item12/20/15 7:18 PM
pennnelope  Find all comments by pennnelope
thanks for clarifying that Frank, and Mourner good point there. y'll have a good evening.
10

News Item12/20/15 4:51 PM
Mourner  Find all comments by Mourner
@ Frank,

I did know where the comment came from following the various threads. Patriarchial movement?

Question so now we can removed both the third and the fourth Commandment? On what Scriptural warrant?

What I listened to, addressed what you quote here from Numbers. That it was Adams sin, that was imputed for exactly the reason you quote below. Eve was first in the transgression, yes, but if Adam had interposed and not joined her the result would not have been original sin imputed to posterity for Eve did not have the headship that allowed her to act without Adam.

There was so much to consider in the message that is why I thought of you. It wasn't a vague point, it had very serious ramifications, but for me, it not easily sorted out. Sin is the cause of all our misery in this life and when there is any way for us to avoid it personally, it is not only in our own personal best interest but in the interest of all under our charge, and all those we influence for good or evil.

9

News Item12/20/15 4:27 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Mourner! The baking cookies thing was for Dorcas’ husband. I don’t adhere to the patriarchal movement, but the below is very telling. Shows male headship at a minimum even though vows are not for today.

Number 30:3. If a woman also vow a vow unto the LORD, and bind herself by a bond, being in her father's house in her youth; 4.And her father hear her vow, and her bond wherewith she hath bound her soul, and her father shall hold his peace at her: then all her vows shall stand, and every bond wherewith she hath bound her soul shall stand.5. But if her father disallow her in the day that he heareth; not any of her vows, or of her bonds wherewith she hath bound her soul, shall stand: and the LORD shall forgive her, because her father disallowed her. 6.And if she had at all an husband, when she vowed, or uttered ought out of her lips, wherewith she bound her soul;7.And her husband heard it, and held his peace at her in the day that he heard it: then her vows shall stand, and her bonds wherewith she bound her soul shall stand.8. But if her husband disallowed her on the day that he heard it; then he shall make her vow which she vowed, and that which she uttered with her lips, wherewith she bound her soul, of none effect: and the LORD shall forgive her.

Thanks for your thoughts.

8

News Item12/20/15 3:32 PM
Mourner  Find all comments by Mourner
Name wrote:
Monstrous. Regiment.
Headless. Head.
7
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