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Breaking News All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  11/28/2020
THURSDAY, OCT 1, 2015  |  143 comments
Pope urged Kim Davis to ‘stay strong’ during secret meeting
Kentucky clerk Kim Davis met secretly with Pope Francis last week during the pontiff’s stop in Washington, D.C., according to her attorney.

Vatican officials did not deny the account of the meeting, first reported by the Catholic website Inside the Vatican, but would not confirm any details. Davis' attorney Mat Staver said members of the pope’s team contacted him shortly before Francis arrived in the United States to arrange the visit.

Davis, an elected official in Rowan County, is embroiled in a religious liberty battle over her refusal to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. Under Kentucky law, the licenses bear her name and signature, an authorization that violates her conscience, Davis maintains.

Although Pope Francis did not directly address Davis’ case during his visit, he told reporters traveling on the plane with him back to Rome that conscientious objection is a human right ...


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
www.worldmag.com

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 143 user comment(s)
News Item10/5/15 7:04 AM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
John UK wrote:
Thanks for taking the trouble to explain.

Mourner quoted:
Psalm 146
Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man,
in whom there is no help.
Happy is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in the LORD his God: ...Which executes judgment ... which gives food to the hungry ... looses the prisoners ... openes the eyes of the blind: ...
the LORD loves the righteous...

John:
You are welcome, my pleasure.
Thanks for accepting the clarification with kindness.

Mourner:
Thanks, May we exceed in the reality of the Psalm

In Christ, to both of you,
Every blessing

143

News Item10/5/15 5:10 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
B. McCausland wrote:
Please, accept some clarifications here
1. Yes, but the principle may extend to personal service in the Spirit. 'Clean hands' is an indispensible condition for anointed service, conveyed in the figures of OT washing rituals of the priests before service in the tabernacle, throughout the Psalms and into the NT teaching.
2. Sorry, brother, this is your personal assumption. The biblical teaching sustained is about men called of God, not humanly 'ordained' as understood in some religious establishments, but separated by the Spirit, unto the work He calls them to.
3. To exercise every God-given gift according to the ministration of the Spirit is a New Testament pattern. 'One-man-ministry' is a man-made idea, yet as you may know 'Scripture-illiterate-charlatans' (not Spirit centered) sometimes may confer a risk of stagnation to some biblical assemblies.
Kind regards
1. Yes, amen.
2a. I assumed wrongly? My humble apologies.
2b. Yes, amen.
3. Absolutely yes and amen.

Thanks for taking the trouble to explain.

142

News Item10/4/15 6:14 PM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
John UK wrote:
1. ... referring to the scriptures being infallibly transmitted to mortal men,
2. ... your Presbyterianism coming out here ... ordaining men for the ministry of the word. ... like the clergy/laity....
3. ... any brother can minister the word at Breaking of Bread meeting as and when the Spirit leads them, ... It is most wonderful when the brethren are led of the Spirit.
Please, accept some clarifications here
1. Yes, but the principle may extend to personal service in the Spirit. 'Clean hands' is an indispensible condition for anointed service, conveyed in the figures of OT washing rituals of the priests before service in the tabernacle, throughout the Psalms and into the NT teaching.
2. Sorry, brother, this is your personal assumption. The biblical teaching sustained is about men called of God, not humanly 'ordained' as understood in some religious establishments, but separated by the Spirit, unto the work He calls them to.
3. To exercise every God-given gift according to the ministration of the Spirit is a New Testament pattern. 'One-man-ministry' is a man-made idea, yet as you may know 'Scripture-illiterate-charlatans' (not Spirit centered) sometimes may confer a risk of stagnation to some biblical assemblies.

Kind regards

141

News Item10/4/15 5:52 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
B. McCausland wrote:
Here is the pattern: those speaking by the Holy Ghost were 'holy' men.
"holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." 2Pe 1:21
I think this is referring to the scriptures being infallibly transmitted to mortal men, yes?

Sister, I think I am sensing a bit of your Presbyterianism coming out here, which believes in ordaining men for the ministry of the word. A bit like the clergy/laity divide which the PR never did get rid of in the mainstream churches.

But no problem, anyway. As I said earlier, I am a great believer in Christian ecumenism, my criterior being the new birth, which is an act of God, adopting the sinner into his family by grace through faith.

But even Charles Spurgeon finally came to faith (God working it in him) through the laboured preaching of an ordinary Methodist church member, showing that God will work through whom and when he chooses.

My fellowship does not actually ordain men into "the ministry", and any brother can minister the word at Breaking of Bread meeting as and when the Spirit leads them, either to pray, announce a hymn, read the scriptures, give out a word. It is most wonderful when the brethren are led of the Spirit.

140

News Item10/4/15 5:33 PM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
John UK wrote:
The preaching of the gospel is making known a mystery, with utterance given by the Holy Ghost. Certainly it is not an intellectual exercise, where a man with a puny brain tries to convince another man with a puny brain of a certain message.
Here is the pattern: those speaking by the Holy Ghost were 'holy' men. "holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." 2Pe 1:21
God will not use those waddling in iniquity, pride or self as he opposes the proud and uncleanness.

There is so much done out from the carnal mind, out of human resources/wisdom, worldly values and philosophies, pragmatism, technics, entertainment, marketing, strategy, individual's gain, and personal smartness. Yet the Lord does not use any of these. David did not slay the giant by the might weaponry and armor of Saul, but with one single well directed stone from the brook.

"Behold my servant, ... in whom my soul is well pleased:
I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
He shall not strive, nor cry;
neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets" Mat 12:18-19

"If a man therefore purge himself from these,
he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified,
nd meet for the master's use" 2Ti 2:21

139

News Item10/4/15 5:11 PM
Mourner  Find all comments by Mourner
B McC,

Psalm 146

Praise ye the LORD. Praise the LORD, O my soul. While I live will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being. Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
Happy is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in the LORD his God: Which made heaven, and earth, the sea, and all that therein is: which keepeth truth for ever: Which executeth judgment for the oppressed: which giveth food to the hungry. The LORD looseth the prisoners: The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind: the LORD raiseth them that are bowed down: the LORD loveth the righteous: The LORD preserveth the strangers; he relieveth the fatherless and widow: but the way of the wicked he turneth upside down. The LORD shall reign for ever, even thy God, O Zion, unto all generations. Praise ye the LORD.

138

News Item10/4/15 4:42 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
you mean John UK, to keep it simple.

Romans 10:9
9 {6}That if you shall {g}confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that {h}God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved.
(6) That is indeed true faith which is settled not only in the head, but also in the heart of man, of which we also give testimony by our outward life, and which serves Christ as our one and only Saviour, even as he sets forth himself in his word. (g) If you profess plainly, sincerely, and openly, that you take Jesus alone to be thy Lord and Saviour. (h) The Father, who is said to have raised the Son from the dead: and this is not spoken to exclude the divinity of the Son, but to set forth the Father's plan, with regard to our redemption in the resurrection of the Son. ---Geneva Bible Commentary

10 For with the heart man believes to righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made to salvation. 11 For the scripture said, Whoever believes on him shall not be ashamed.

Of course when this was written, there wasn't a problem with the Trinity or with making Mary a goddess. so the two individuals mentioned in this article have a ways to go yet before they are saved

137

News Item10/4/15 4:13 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Sister B,
Thanks for the post on evangelism - gospel. It's a shame there was so many points made in one post. However,

Ephesians 6:18-20 KJV
(18) Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
(19) And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
(20) For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

The preaching of the gospel is making known a mystery, with utterance given by the Holy Ghost. Certainly it is not an intellectual exercise, where a man with a puny brain tries to convince another man with a puny brain of a certain message.

I would liken it to the OT man of God whom God told to prophesy over the dead bones in the valley, that they might come to life, bone on bone, then filled with flesh, standing to their feet, a mighty army. This ties in with "the wind bloweth...."

I believe there must be a message - in the "gospel" - and that message must be about the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ, that is, Jesus Christ and him crucified.

Salvation? I believe in conduits and portals, not assent to a message.

136

News Item10/4/15 4:11 PM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
Mourner wrote:
A preacher ... sent by Christ
Prayer should back out this type of men, that they would preach the word, not the isolated/minimized 'Gospel' of neo-evangelicalism.
Many are worn, tired and dragging their souls for lack of renewal in the word due to mere activism, which stands misunderstood for spirituality.

When God moves honouring his word, he works in the quiet stillness of the spirit of man, not in the thunder of worship, prayer, hassle or racket.

"Hear, O my people, ... There shall no strange god be in thee;
I am the LORD thy God, ... open thy mouth wide, and I will fill it.
But my people would not hearken to my voice...
I should soon have subdued their enemies,
and turned my hand against their adversaries.

The haters of the LORD should have submitted themselves unto him: ...
He should have fed them also with the finest of the wheat:
and with honey out of the rock should I have satisfied thee"

Ps 81

135

News Item10/4/15 1:29 PM
Mourner  Find all comments by Mourner
B. McCausland wrote:
A sound ‘parameter’ for many.
The Greek term euangélion translated as Gospel is made of: eû (good) and aggelos (messanger)” conveying the idea of “good message proclaimed”
the term has ‘shifted’ meaning... minimum of correct theological jargon.. by which one 'gets right' with God.
The biblical ‘euangélion‘ is inexhaustible, yet out of convenience it has become synthetic, stifled, and shorn of the entire Bible context.
We hold special ‘Gospel’ meetings...
This makes me think of 2 things. 1. First that the Head of the Church sends men to preach the gospel. Men with an internal and external call because faith cometh by hearing by and hearing by the Word of God. A preacher is required and therefore sent by Christ, the Master of the His house. Men can run unsent, but it isn't a 'good' idea 2. Of usurpers of world dominion -Jer 50:44 Behold, he shall come up like a lion from the swelling of Jordan unto the habitation of the strong: but I will make them suddenly run away from her: and who is a chosen man, that I may appoint over her? for who is like me? and who will appoint me the time? and who is that shepherd that will stand before me?
134

News Item10/4/15 11:44 AM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
John UK wrote:
Preach the Gospel
A sound ‘parameter’ for many.
The Greek term euangélion translated as Gospel is made of: eû (good) and aggelos (messanger)” conveying the idea of “good message proclaimed”
However, the term has ‘shifted’ meaning. The Gospel today means a structured/simplified minimum of correct theological jargon by which one 'gets right' with God.
The biblical ‘euangélion‘ is inexhaustible, yet out of convenience it has become synthetic, stifled, and shorn of the entire Bible context.
We hold special ‘Gospel’ meetings, Missions, Campaigns to bring out this condensed/customized version of the Gospel, instead of simply preaching the word and let God honour what is of himself.
Then we complain about of easy belivism, give off about decisionism, regret false conversions, dismay at lack of assurance in many, revise methods, and split hairs about the regeneration process to the point of attempting to put God right in what he does, how he does it, and when and what he should or should not do by his Spirit.
Yet, when God works he does not need our permission because:
The wind blows where it lists, … but (you) can not tell where it comes, and whither it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Jh 3:8
133

News Item10/4/15 5:50 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Thanks Dolores for sharing some more of your testimony, I just love real life testimony of what the loving God has done in the lives of his people.

And amen to what you said about the growing process. It never ends and can get harder and harder. The more we know, the more God can stretch our spiritual muscles.

The first few years we are a bit wrapped up in cotton wool, babes in Christ. And he looks after us well, not allowing the devil much room. But later, when we've learnt about the warfare, and the whole armour of God, he permits the devil to attack us, simply to make sure the armour is in place, and that it really works.

The war can be really awful, if we look at it in human terms. Paul the Apostle's life was never the same after his conversion. He must have looked a right state after all those beatings, shipwrecks, 39 stripes several times.

I read one of John Wesley's journals, and it was impressive. While out preaching, a gang of strong men gathered him up and carried him as if he was a coffin on their shoulders, as they took him down to the local river to drown him. John said, "God's grace was wonderful, and I felt as though I was lying on a bed of rose petals."

Mind you, he used to spend hours with the Lord, even before breakfast.

132

News Item10/4/15 12:53 AM
Dolores  Find all comments by Dolores
Hey, John UK, thanks again for sharing your time line of being a Christian and how God has worked in your life and like me He is still working on. However,t God can still use imperfect people. As a matter of fact even better as we know ourselves so well and that keeps me pretty humble. I remember how clean, pure and happy I felt after my Baptist salvation experience, Holy Spirit convicts me of how sinful I was and causes me to feel a deep love for Jesus and I wanted to give my life to Him and I did. Things were wonderful for a time( the mountain top exerience) but sooner or later you have to come down off that mountain to do your growing and working. I will never forget that first encounter with the enemy who used my sister as his tool. I was only12 with no experience in these things, so was caught off guard. We had gotten into an argument, her being 16 yrs. Older than me, she was extremely bossy to me which I told her numerous times that she was not my mother!! Don't remember what brought it on but remember the words she said and the look on her face when she said," you are not saved!!" And for an instant there, I questioed God's love for me because I was so bad.
131

News Item10/3/15 6:32 PM
s c | Oh  Find all comments by s c
So,from the pew,
regarding your very overrated cliche...
maybe Justin Beiber is "just alright"...kinda like "Jesus,is just alright"?
Why bother with,I don't know,like God's Word?
Do you also parrot..."Don't judge"?
When Christ said be holy as I am...that was just an option?
In a country that is under judgment,it's not surprising that many true Christians are uncomfortable within many brick and mortar churches.
I'm sure that fellowship is not limited between Christians in such settings,especially,if one has to attend a circus called a church.
Lions,tigers and bears and the big elephant in the middle of the sanctuary no one is allowed to talk about.
130

News Item10/3/15 5:59 PM
ladybug  Find all comments by ladybug
1. Holy, holy, holy Lord,
God of Hosts, in heaven adored,
Earth with awe has heard Thy name,
Men Thy majesty proclaim.

2. Just and true are all Thy ways,
Great Thy works above our praise;
Humbled in the dust, we own,
Thou art holy, Thou alone.

3. In Thy sight, the angel band
Justly charged with folly stand;
Holiest deeds of creatures lie
Meritless before Thine eye.

4. How shall sinners worship Thee,
God of spotless purity?
To Thy grace all hope we owe:
Thine own righteousness bestow.

“Holy, Holy, Holy Lord”
Words by Basil Manly, Jr. (1850)

129

News Item10/3/15 5:04 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
from the pew wrote:
When you guys locate the perfect church don't forget you cannot become a member otherwise it would then become imperfect with sinners like you in the pew.
Absolutely correct! It took the Lord a long time to drum that into me, but then, sanctification can take quite a while. But the Lord will teach his children in due course, and I have to be patient with what he is doing in myself, and in others around me. It is a lesson very important.
signed,
A sinner, second only to Frank, who is chief.
Frank wrote:
John UK, how is this?
1 Must be a grace church - yes
2 Must preach the gospel - yes
3 Must baptise believers by immersion - yes
4 Must hold to the 1689 Confession - no
....
Oh Frank, it was going so well until you got to the best confession in the world - Spurgeon's own! Oh, you heretic!

Anyway, thanks a million for a valiant effort and closing remarks.

and then wrote:
JOHN WESLEY'S shameful PERSECUTION OF TOPLADY - ANOTHER example of ARMINIAN HATRED for CALVINISM
http://www.sermonaudio.com/new_details3.asp?ID=13367
It's not the Arminians on the forum that persecute me and malign me, it's the Calvinist Women's Brigade.
128

News Item10/3/15 4:56 PM
from the pew  Find all comments by from the pew
When you guys locate the perfect church don't forget you cannot become a member otherwise it would then become imperfect with sinners like you in the pew.
127

News Item10/3/15 4:47 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
John UK, how is this?

1 Must be a grace church - yes
2 Must preach the gospel - yes
3 Must baptise believers by immersion - yes
4 Must hold to the 1689 Confession - no
5 Must not have women preachers -yes
6 Must have communion every Sunday – yes
7 Must sing hymns and psalms - no
8 Women must wear head coverings - no
9 Women must remain silent in the church – no, they can talk not teach
10 Church officers must be men - yes
11 Must believe that animals go to heaven – no, but they do.
12 Must believe in infralapsarianism – no, supralapsarianism is correct.
13 Must not use alcohol in the communion wine – no, but this is more complicated. I never really pondered this?
14 Must not pass a bag around for a collection - no
15 Must have a treasury at the back for gifts - no
16 Must not have a formal membership - no
17 Must have two services on Sundays and one midweek - no
18 Pastor must be young (or) - no
19 Pastor must be old - no
20 Add anything else you want to.....- Could have added much, but for brevity I will simply say the pastors can’t be hirelings. A hireling is one who preaches or conducts his pastoral duties to protect his salary or retirement or compromises to build his congregation and not to glorify the Lord. I will admit there is a fine line.

126

News Item10/3/15 3:42 PM
Dorcas  Find all comments by Dorcas
Thanks for your kindness Jim.
We live in a remote area at present so it is difficult to find fellowship...but God does provide..
-----
Ladybug...
125

News Item10/3/15 3:33 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Need to find a church? May God lead you Dorcas! [URL=http://www.biblebb.com/files/GOODCHURCH.HTM]]]http://www.biblebb.com/files/GOODCHURCH.HTM (What to Look for in a Church)[/URL] Lincoln is fortunate that we have several good Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Churches, so he above advice can help people select a church.

I'm glad that people realize that the church that Kim Davis goes to is one to avoid, [URL=http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/09/splainer-whats-apostolic-christian-and-why-kim-davis-hair-so-long/71947018/]]]What’s an Apostolic Christian[/URL] and so are Emissaries of Satan, [URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=930151424180]]]http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=930151424180 (Contrasting Catholic Dogma & the Bible, Part 1)[/URL] All she was doing was trying to reverse the Reformation. Read the PDF, that is associated with that sermon. You can find a link to that when you go to the sermon.

124
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