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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  10/16/2019
Choice News FRIDAY, AUG 28, 2015  |  25 comments  |  2 commentaries
Polygamists Point to Gay Marriage Ruling to Sanction Their Sin

A Utah judge struck down part of the state's polygamy ban a year ago to allow cohabitation but drew short of all-out sanctioning bigamy.

But polygamists are growing bolder in the wake of the U.S. Supreme Court ruling in June that made same-sex marriage legal in all 50 states. As predicted, polygamists are now leveraging the High Court's historic decision to defend their lifestyle at the state level.

Specifically, the Brown family—the stars of the TLC reality show "Sister Wives,"—are suing the state of Utah over its polygamy ban. The Browns argue Utah's polygamy law violates their right to practice their religion. ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 25 user comment(s)
News Item8/31/15 2:29 PM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
lesser lesson wrote:
And for the record, as a free man with God as my witness…
I DO NOT CONSENT!!!
Just a comment:
As serious and sad things may appear, in some countries one might need certification of status for inheritance purposes, taxation or other matters.
Bureaucracy pairs with government in any Fascist or Socialistic State.
25

News Item8/31/15 2:08 PM
pennned  Find all comments by pennned
Brother Saint Elected Elmer I wrote:
Same with births....
yep
24

News Item8/31/15 1:11 PM
lesser lesson | link  Find all comments by lesser lesson
[URL=https://realitybloger.wordpress.com/2011/12/16/do-you-own-your-children/]]]Who owns the kids? depends on consent[/URL]

Illinois Appellate Court judgment from 1997:

Appellate Court of Illinois, NO. 5-97-0108:

“Marriage is a civil contract to which there are three parties-the husband, the wife and the state.“

Yikes! !!

Even as the Supreme Court – which has mistakenly translated the word “supreme” to mean that these seven appointed “justices” who pass “opinion” upon the masses of consenting “citizens” are more supreme than even God himself – these men and women; who are not voted into these positions of power in any way by the people, but instead are appointed by the President of the United States (corporation) … these self-imposed deities clearly state here that they are the law of the land, and that that “the natural consequence of citizenship” is for the people to be under their supreme opinion!

Well I for one do not voluntarily submit to the opinions of these megalomaniacs any longer.

And for the record, as a free man with God as my witness…

I DO NOT CONSENT!!!

23

News Item8/31/15 12:42 PM
Brother Saint Elected Elmer I  Find all comments by Brother Saint Elected Elmer I
Same with births.

And since getting a license means something is a sin, then where in the scriptures does God state that marriage is a sin, or traveling, or speaking, or writing, or eating and drinking, or assembling together, or parenting and raising children, or assembling children together, or caring for children, or caring for the elderly, or building shelter, or securing water, or eliminating body waste, or healing, or working, or working and getting a reward and keeping the entire reward (not giving some or all to strangers with guns), or buying and selling, or giving, or giving medical advice, or giving financial advice, or giving spiritual advice, or giving legal advice when dealing with the heathen legal system, or simply living (being freely on the land without rent payments)?

10th amendment wrote:
They simply recorded their marriages in their Family Bibles. So should we.
You should not have to obtain a license from the State to marry someone anymore than you should have to obtain a license from the State to be a parent, which some in academic and legislative circles are currently pushing to be made law.
22

News Item8/31/15 11:42 AM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
10th amendment wrote:
If they need to know, they can read about it in the Family Bible:
What's recorded in a Family Bible will stand up as legal evidence in any court of law in America. Early Americans were married without a marriage license. They simply recorded their marriages in their Family Bibles. So should we.
What you explain it understood.
However, what you describe above is a peculiarity unique to USA perhaps. The concept 'to inform' was used in the sense of order.

It is obvious that 'licences' are government contraptions either to obtain money, regulate practice, or exercise control.
Bunyan refused to obtain one to preach the Gospel for instance.

21

News Item8/31/15 11:32 AM
10th amendment | Constitution  Find all comments by 10th amendment
B. McCausland wrote:
keeping the state informed of the marriage status
If they need to know, they can read about it in the Family Bible:
What's recorded in a Family Bible will stand up as legal evidence in any court of law in America. Early Americans were married without a marriage license. They simply recorded their marriages in their Family Bibles. So should we.

Given the fact that states may soon legalize same-sex marriages, we need to ask ourselves, "If a man and a man marry with a State marriage license, and a man and woman marry without a State marriage license - who's really married? Is it the two men with a marriage license, or the man and woman without a marriage license?...(As for homosexuals marrying, outlaw sodomy as God's law demands, and there will be no threat of sodomites marrying.)

You should not have to obtain a license from the State to marry someone anymore than you should have to obtain a license from the State to be a parent, which some in academic and legislative circles are currently pushing to be made law.

From:
http://www.mercyseat.net/marriagelicense.html

interesting that
Kevin Swanson's show today has the same issue

http://www.sermonaudio.com/new_details.asp?ID=43204

20

News Item8/31/15 11:10 AM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
10th amendment wrote:
Black's Law Dictionary defines "license" as, "The permission by competent authority to do an act which without such permission, would be illegal." We need to ask ourselves- why should it be illegal to marry without the State's permission? More importantly, why should we need the State's permission to participate in something which God instituted (Gen. 2:18-24)? We should not need the State's permission to marry nor should we grovel before state officials to seek it. What if you apply and the State says "no"?
Fine.

Comment:
No objection presented here as to the matter of conducting things 'decently and in order'. In this particular case being the matter of keeping the state informed of the marriage status between two individuals for pertaining legalities, personal accountability and public good testimony.
However, socialistic states attempt to invade and regulate every part of the individuals' existence as their God given 'right' regarding them as serfs, instead of citizens.

19

News Item8/31/15 10:24 AM
pennned  Find all comments by pennned
I ask the same question Why are we getting "permission" from men for what God has ordained? Its already "pre-approved"! Why do we give over the most precious things, why do we number our children? Is there not warning of this in Revelations? -- marriage/baptism are both sacred -- did not many break free from Rome/Reformers to be able to baptize one another when one confesses Christ and not forcing non-religious people to baptize their babies in the name of Christ? (insincere, forced), so why have we restrained ourselves what those before freed themselves from?
18

News Item8/31/15 10:13 AM
10th amendment | Constitution  Find all comments by 10th amendment
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
country to live that has no central government.
Like one that says "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively,
or to
the people"
???

Every year thousands of Christians amble down to their local county courthouse and obtain a marriage license from the State in order to marry their future spouse. They do this unquestioningly. They do it because their pastor has told them to go get one, and besides, "everybody else gets one." This pamphlet link in question attempts to answer the question - why should we not get one?

as stated:

The definition of a "license" demands that we not obtain one to marry.
Black's Law Dictionary defines "license" as, "The permission by competent authority to do an act which without such permission, would be illegal." We need to ask ourselves- why should it be illegal to marry without the State's permission? More importantly, why should we need the State's permission to participate in something which God instituted (Gen. 2:18-24)? We should not need the State's permission to marry nor should we grovel before state officials to seek it. What if you apply and the State says "no"?

17

News Item8/30/15 1:45 PM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Hi Frank, kids aside, I would say that the sin began with the 2nd wife and beyond, so the 1st wife is the one who should be recognized and kept. (Unless one of the others is prettier...ha-ha).
16

News Item8/30/15 1:10 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Lesser lesson wrote:
.
From the State's point of view, when you marry with a marriage license, you are not just marrying your spouse, but you are also marrying the State.
First of all, when you read the document you didn't bother to post a link to, it does not state you are marrying the state, it says you have legal obligations to the state. Those obligations affect your taxes, your insurance coverage, etc. and would be there whether or not you received a state marriage license or not. For all the faulty logic of the link you did post, why did the author not tell his congregates not to file taxes married jointly as that, using the same type of thinking, would be marrying the federal government. If you don't want any legal obligations to the state, find another country to live that has no central government.

Much more could be given to sure your claim to be spurious but I doubt you will be persuaded otherwise.

15

News Item8/30/15 12:07 PM
Brother E  Find all comments by Brother E
Refreshing to read some of your posts.

Lesser lesson wrote:
Following this thread while looking at civil marriage generally I was reminded (point 5)that
When you marry with a marriage license, you are like a polygamist.
From the State's point of view, when you marry with a marriage license, you are not just marrying your spouse, but you are also marrying the State.
The most blatant declaration of this fact that I have ever found is a brochure entitled "With This Ring I Thee Wed." It is found in county courthouses across Ohio where people go to obtain their marriage licenses. It is published by the Ohio State Bar Association. The opening paragraph under the subtitle "Marriage Vows" states, "Actually, when you repeat your marriage vows you enter into a legal contract. There are three parties to that contract. 1.You; 2. Your husband or wife, as the case may be; and 3. the State of Ohio."
See, the State and the lawyers know that when you marry with a marriage license, you are not just marrying your spouse, you are marrying the State! You are like a polygamist! You are not just making a vow to your spouse, but you are making a vow to the State and your spouse. You are also giving undue jurisdiction to the State.[/URL]
14

News Item8/30/15 8:25 AM
Lesser lesson | Link  Find all comments by Lesser lesson
Following this thread while looking at civil marriage generally I was reminded (point 5)that

When you marry with a marriage license, you are like a polygamist.

From the State's point of view, when you marry with a marriage license, you are not just marrying your spouse, but you are also marrying the State.

The most blatant declaration of this fact that I have ever found is a brochure entitled "With This Ring I Thee Wed." It is found in county courthouses across Ohio where people go to obtain their marriage licenses. It is published by the Ohio State Bar Association. The opening paragraph under the subtitle "Marriage Vows" states, "Actually, when you repeat your marriage vows you enter into a legal contract. There are three parties to that contract. 1.You; 2. Your husband or wife, as the case may be; and 3. the State of Ohio."

See, the State and the lawyers know that when you marry with a marriage license, you are not just marrying your spouse, you are marrying the State! You are like a polygamist! You are not just making a vow to your spouse, but you are making a vow to the State and your spouse. You are also giving undue jurisdiction to the State.

[URL=http://www.mercyseat.net/marriagelicense.html]]]5 reasons to reject State license[/URL]

13

News Item8/29/15 3:26 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
B. McCausland wrote:
Some observations about the matter:
1. Ezra 10 brings an antecedent of divorce for conscience sake.
2. The first marriage should be held as the original unit.
3. The OT legistated protection guidelines for the victims of polygamy.
"If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, [both] the beloved and the hated; and [if] the firstborn son be hers that was hated: Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit [that] which he hath, [that] he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, [which is indeed] the firstborn: But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated [for] the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he [is] the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn [is] his." Deut 21:15-17
Also see Exo 21:7-11
4. In these days of permissibility, it must be guessed that the situation might resolve along the particular understanding of the unity of marriage in the missionary's perception.
And now I can say that someone responded to my dillema, but I now have to change my statement to no one has answered my question about the African fellow with the 5 wives. But thanks for your thoughts.
12

News Item8/28/15 8:48 PM
Wayfairer pilgrim | Lubbock,tx  Find all comments by Wayfairer pilgrim
Judge Kennedy in his lilting soliloquy about gay marriage said his finding was for anyone calling out at night was hoping someone would answer back. Based on that impeccable reason hogwash will bring us to pediphile " marriage" in five years. Child slavery already exists world wife, it's just going to be called " marriage". Wonder if the screams from hell sound as poignant ?
11

News Item8/28/15 4:07 PM
Ray Cyst  Find all comments by Ray Cyst
Buster wrote:
As long as the church continues to divide over racial lines, the world will take advantage of any small crack in the armor.
Could be that the world (fallen man) conditioned us to believe that marriage should occur between people who look much like themselves on the outside. However, the Bible states Believers can and should marry Believers (equal yoking). This shows unity in the One New Man; not barriers, etc. Failure to do so causes iniquities & evil to abound in every realm of life.
However, we continue to stick our heads in the sand which shifts with every new and evil tide; marrying for worldly (fleshly) gain.
How will my marriage work if society rejects my interracial marriage to one I love and is a Believer in Christ?
God's design for marriage is between those who are equally yoked; IN CHRIST.
I know! I have dark hair, and my spouse has light hair. People don't like it. That caused Gay marriage
10

News Item8/28/15 3:37 PM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
Frank wrote:
If polygamy is sinful in and of itself, which wives, if any, does this fellow divorce?
Some observations about the matter:

1. Ezra 10 brings an antecedent of divorce for conscience sake.

2. The first marriage should be held as the original unit.

3. The OT legistated protection guidelines for the victims of polygamy.
"If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, [both] the beloved and the hated; and [if] the firstborn son be hers that was hated: Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit [that] which he hath, [that] he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, [which is indeed] the firstborn: But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated [for] the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he [is] the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn [is] his." Deut 21:15-17
Also see Exo 21:7-11

4. In these days of permissibility, it must be guessed that the situation might resolve along the particular understanding of the unity of marriage in the missionary's perception.

9

News Item8/28/15 2:38 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
s c wrote:
...a very funny thing to occur here in America where cohabitation/living together in sin or being totally absent from a home where ones children live has been the preference.
Anyone who has an inclination to try polygamy ought to take a lesson from Solomon...poor guy. No wonder he was lamenting.
I agree sister. I have never understood why anyone would want more than one wife. There are no examples in scripture of a woman having more than one husband, but lots of examples of having more than one wife. And yes, Solomon should be a lesson to all of us.

Now here is a question I have put forth before and no one responded. If a missionary goes into an African village and converts this fellow who has 5 wives and has kids by all the wives. If polygamy is sinful in and of itself, which wives, if any, does this fellow divorce?

8

News Item8/28/15 11:58 AM
s c | Oh  Find all comments by s c
...a very funny thing to occur here in America where cohabitation/living together in sin or being totally absent from a home where ones children live has been the preference.
Anyone who has an inclination to try polygamy ought to take a lesson from Solomon...poor guy. No wonder he was lamenting.
7

News Item8/28/15 10:00 AM
pennned  Find all comments by pennned
children will become wards of the state. judges will decide who belongs to who. usery will dominate sexual contracts.

a people that cannot rule themselves become ruled.

the innocent are the victims.

there are no victimless crimes. as much as they will tell themselves so. utter selfishness is the fruit of men and women who are not disciplined by the Lord, be it through the work of the Holy Spirit or the conscience.

who ever thought what this generation really needs, is sunshine, some land, and a mom and a dad? people continually steal from each other instead and we get chaos. Come Lord Jesus.

6
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