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Breaking News All | Prayer | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  4/14/2021
WEDNESDAY, FEB 18, 2015  |  148 comments  |  1 commentary
Rob Bell Tells Oprah the Church Is 'Moments Away' From Embracing Gay Marriage

Former Mars Hill Bible Church pastor and best-selling author Rob Bell told media mogul Oprah Winfrey on Sunday that the American church is "moments away" from embracing gay marriage and thinks "it's inevitable."

Bell made the statement during a Valentine's weekend episode of Winfrey's "Super Soul Sunday" television show where he appeared with his wife, Kristen, to discuss marriage and their new book, The ZimZum of Love: A New Way of Understanding Marriage.


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News Item2/26/15 1:34 AM
Officer Elmer K. Yoder | Amish Mafia  Find all comments by Officer Elmer K. Yoder
Great, John! Now I can get back to my inerrant Bible.

John UK wrote:
Elmer, you don't half post some tripe. I point out that the KJV has a poor translation in one instance, and all on a sudden I've got an error-filled Bible.
Do you ever listen to good preaching? Say, someone like Dr Peter Masters? He preaches from the word of God, and always seeks to bring out the meaning, utilising the original greek language if necessary.
Now stop being silly, and get a hold of the "Translators To The Reader" online document, and discover for yourself just what the KJV translators said about their new version of the Holy Bible. Take off your rose-tinted specs, and begin to live in the real world.
And if you remember, I referred to the KJV as having one or two "blemishes", not errors.
148

News Item2/24/15 4:56 PM
Michael Hranek | Chickamauga, GA for the moment  Find all comments by Michael Hranek
Bible Facts Explained wrote:
1. You would replace sin with free will.
2. man has to participate with God in modified sovereignty. Making election a joint action God plus sinner.

... restricts the Atonement to divine hands only and does not support your belief in human decision making and free will

... This upsets your conviction that mans free will can overturn the Spirit's work.

... Your believe that man can loose his salvation

B Calvinist
Again thank you for posting
It saddens me greatly to see you as a liar

1. No. I believe in total depravity (fallen sinfulness, man cannot save himself) not Dordt's total inablilty to respond to God
2. No. I believe in the complete Sovereignty of God in Election God Himself so working through His word, His Spirit, Witnesses, and Providence in those He saves to bring them to a conscience choice of repentance and faith to Salvation
3. Paritally Correct I believe Christ to be the propitiation for the sins of the whole world ONLY Effective in those God saves (brings to repentance and faith)
4. No. God is again absolutely sovereign over the will, which He gave to man, able to make them conscienceously willing
5. No. I believe the Lord Jesus Christ is able to Save and KEEP Saved Forever His own

147

News Item2/24/15 4:20 PM
Bible Facts Explained  Find all comments by Bible Facts Explained
Michael Hranek wrote:
1. First a gentle correction
It is the 5 points of Dordt
2. If you want to disagree with me please do so rightly
1. No. Wrong again Michael.
2. That's a bit arrogant of you Michael?

Your previous posts have shown you to be of the Arminian style of ideology. For example your suggestions about works based religious human action - In lieu of God's sovereignty.

The Arminian cannot accept the Bible's Doctrines of Grace. TULIP. =
1. EG. Total Depravity - Thus You would replace sin with free will.
2. EG. Unconditional Election - Which you cannot accept believing man has to participate with God in modified sovereignty. Making election a joint action God plus sinner.
EG. Limited Atonement - Which you do not accept because it restricts the Atonement to divine hands only and does not support your belief in human decision making and free will.
EG. Irresistible Grace - Which puts the absolute power of Grace in divine hands and disempowers human action. This upsets your conviction that mans free will can overturn the Spirit's work.
EG. Perseverance. - Your believe that man can loose his salvation brings you to reject this act of God.

146

News Item2/24/15 2:39 PM
Biblical Calvinist  Find all comments by Biblical Calvinist
Mike wrote:
Acts 7:51
"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."
Mike;
Stephen's point here is to the Pharisee's and Jews who were quote "like their fathers" who also rejected the Prophets and therefore God's doctrines.
They were not of the Elect.

Thus the Pharisees were just like the Arminians today who try to undermine God, Christ and the Holy Spirit. Like "Blind Guides."

The Bible teaches the Doctrines of grace - But the Arminians reject the bible teaching which is why they are not Calvinists and resist the Holy Spirit in their reprobate ideological estate.

Remember the Doctrines of Grace are precisely that - OF GRACE.

Blind Guides;
Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

145

News Item2/24/15 11:54 AM
Michael Hranek | Chickamauga, GA for the moment  Find all comments by Michael Hranek
Biblical Calvinist wrote:
The five points of
B Calvinist
Thank you so much for the opportunity to briefly respond

First a gentle correction
It is the 5 points of Dordt

Second gentle correction
If you want to disagree with me please do so rightly.
I do not believe a single point you posted of your Arminian (boogeyman?)

Further who in the world gave you the right/authority to judge, to accuse and declare as fact others who are not Calvinists as being Arminian? Those guy at Dordt? Who are they, somekind of infallible Protestant Popes?

Imho some who called themselves Calvinists like Spurgeon and Whitefield sought much more to be Biblical first and foremost more than they did to be Calvinists, especially Calvinists of the Dordt (Hyper) kind, and not make themselves into somekind of infallible reformed dictatores but to be used by God to lead men to the obedience of faith in Christ

things the unregenerate Calvinist cannot comprehend

144

News Item2/24/15 9:51 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Elmer, you don't half post some tripe. I point out that the KJV has a poor translation in one instance, and all on a sudden I've got an error-filled Bible.

Do you ever listen to good preaching? Say, someone like Dr Peter Masters? He preaches from the word of God, and always seeks to bring out the meaning, utilising the original greek language if necessary.

Now stop being silly, and get a hold of the "Translators To The Reader" online document, and discover for yourself just what the KJV translators said about their new version of the Holy Bible. Take off your rose-tinted specs, and begin to live in the real world.

And if you remember, I referred to the KJV as having one or two "blemishes", not errors.

Officer Elmer wrote:
I guess I do not have a Bible without errors. And since you folks don't either, then stop quoting from your error-filled Bibles like they are truth.
143

News Item2/24/15 3:24 AM
Officer Elmer | Amish Mafia  Find all comments by Officer Elmer
I guess I do not have a Bible without errors. And since you folks don't either, then stop quoting from your error-filled Bibles like they are truth.

John UK wrote:
Elmer, if you have an inerrant Bible, please tell us what it is.
And if you say the KJV, do you have bishops in your church?
But seriously, you need to do some research, such as reading the Translators To The Reader document supplied by the KJV translation. In it, you will find that THEY recommend further study into the use of certain words. In the OT, they had to even resort to finding Hebrew speakers (first language) to try to get to grips with certain Hebrew words which they couldn't understand. Even the Hebrew speakers could not help them.
Now as regards an inerrant Bible, when it comes to doctrines of primary importance, I say that the KJV is inerrant, and is the Bible I use constantly.
Oh, and BTW, I don't attend churches which have bishops.
142

News Item2/23/15 5:17 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Biblical Calvinist wrote:
---
---
---
3. Atonement is universal which proves it does not work for the majority.
This begets the question, Did Christ need to die?
4. Grace is not really very powerful. Thus man can resist the Holy Spirit By his "free will." (Pretty powerful these Arminians)?
---
If you are not a Calvinist then you are some form of Arminian. Good luck.
3. Read Romans 5. Closely.

4.If you are a Calvinist, then may the Holy Spirit guide you into all truth, not just enough to get by. Of course the Holy Spirit can be resisted. You have biblical evidence otherwise?

Acts 7:51
"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."

Read all of Acts 7. Did Stephen mean what he said? Or maybe he should have taken comfort in their non-election. After all, the elect cannot resist, right?

141

News Item2/23/15 4:41 PM
That is what we call  Find all comments by That is what we call
Biblical Calvinist wrote:
The five points of Calvinism otherwise known as TULIP, are the Doctrines of Grace. 'Of Grace' because they are entirely Scriptural and received only by the grace of faith.
The five points came from the meeting held by the Synod of Dordrecht (Dordt) held in 1619. The documents the Synod produced are entitled the Canons of Dordt.
The five points of Calvinism are accurately and entirely Biblical and a response to the five points brought out by the Arminian heretics.
The Arminian heretics embraced the salvation by works ideology of the Roman Catholic heretics.
Thus for the Arminians
1. Sin is not influential in mortals. Thus the sinner can overcome it by his free will.
2. Election is influenced by the sinner. (Salvation by works).
3. Atonement is universal which proves it does not work for the majority.
This begets the question, Did Christ need to die?
4. Grace is not really very powerful. Thus man can resist the Holy Spirit By his "free will." (Pretty powerful these Arminians)?
5. Man can loose his salvation easy peasy.
If you are not a Calvinist then you are some form of Arminian. Good luck.
an oxymoron. Biblical Calvinist
140

News Item2/23/15 4:07 PM
Biblical Calvinist  Find all comments by Biblical Calvinist
Michael Hranek wrote:
as I lean very much towards a hostility
of the 5 Point of Dhordt Calvinism
because of its gross distortions
The five points of Calvinism otherwise known as TULIP, are the Doctrines of Grace. 'Of Grace' because they are entirely Scriptural and received only by the grace of faith.

The five points came from the meeting held by the Synod of Dordrecht (Dordt) held in 1619. The documents the Synod produced are entitled the Canons of Dordt.

The five points of Calvinism are accurately and entirely Biblical and a response to the five points brought out by the Arminian heretics.

The Arminian heretics embraced the salvation by works ideology of the Roman Catholic heretics.

Thus for the Arminians
1. Sin is not influential in mortals. Thus the sinner can overcome it by his free will.
2. Election is influenced by the sinner. (Salvation by works).
3. Atonement is universal which proves it does not work for the majority.
This begets the question, Did Christ need to die?
4. Grace is not really very powerful. Thus man can resist the Holy Spirit By his "free will." (Pretty powerful these Arminians)?
5. Man can loose his salvation easy peasy.

If you are not a Calvinist then you are some form of Arminian. Good luck.

139

News Item2/23/15 10:27 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Elmer, if you have an inerrant Bible, please tell us what it is.

And if you say the KJV, do you have bishops in your church?

But seriously, you need to do some research, such as reading the Translators To The Reader document supplied by the KJV translation. In it, you will find that THEY recommend further study into the use of certain words. In the OT, they had to even resort to finding Hebrew speakers (first language) to try to get to grips with certain Hebrew words which they couldn't understand. Even the Hebrew speakers could not help them.

Now as regards an inerrant Bible, when it comes to doctrines of primary importance, I say that the KJV is inerrant, and is the Bible I use constantly.

Oh, and BTW, I don't attend churches which have bishops.

Brother Saint Elmer wrote:
So what you and Brother Saint John are saying is that neither of you have an inerrant Bible?
138

News Item2/23/15 10:24 AM
Michael Hranek | Chickamauga, GA for the moment  Find all comments by Michael Hranek
Brother Saint Elmer wrote:
So what you and Brother Saint John are saying is that neither of you have an inerrant Bible?
Elmer
Thanks for the opportunity to give a reference to an excellent message by Pastor Sean Harris on the Bible for those that love the word of God and have deep interest in knowing it and living by the what God Himself says

[URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=101914200260]]]Various Translations of the Word of God[/URL]

I highly recommend watching the video because you can see the examples Pastor Sean Harris is talking about

And in really listening to what God Himself says have an understanding even what God will do with the likes of unrepentant Oprahs and Rob Bell types and those who are only playing church, and why

137

News Item2/23/15 10:05 AM
Brother Saint Elmer | Amish Grace Land  Find all comments by Brother Saint Elmer
So what you and Brother Saint John are saying is that neither of you have an inerrant Bible?

Unprofitable Servant wrote:
why pastor, doctor, bishop, elder, evangelist,brother, saint "Elmer" you have such a dilemma. Maybe you should concentrate on it rather than random posts here on SA. How do you know if the English translation is the accurate one???? What if you are supposed to use the Spanish or German one instead? People used to use the Latin Vulgate and before that the Greek Septuagint, maybe that is where you should go, who knows???? Maybe your only hope is to become a scholar of Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. Oh, and then you should also develop a time machine so you can pick up the original manuscripts. Of course you might could exercise faith that you have a reliable copy of the Word of God to study and that it is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteous, but you are only choosing to rely on man's reasoning not faith. If I were you I would give myself to finding an answer to your dilemma and then you can come back and enlighten us.
136

News Item2/21/15 5:05 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Brother Saint Dear Elmer wrote:
.. apparently the translators ...
why pastor, doctor, bishop, elder, evangelist,brother, saint "Elmer" you have such a dilemma. Maybe you should concentrate on it rather than random posts here on SA. How do you know if the English translation is the accurate one???? What if you are supposed to use the Spanish or German one instead? People used to use the Latin Vulgate and before that the Greek Septuagint, maybe that is where you should go, who knows???? Maybe your only hope is to become a scholar of Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. Oh, and then you should also develop a time machine so you can pick up the original manuscripts. Of course you might could exercise faith that you have a reliable copy of the Word of God to study and that it is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteous, but you are only choosing to rely on man's reasoning not faith. If I were you I would give myself to finding an answer to your dilemma and then you can come back and enlighten us.
135

News Item2/21/15 4:22 PM
Delivered | On My Knees  Contact via emailFind all comments by Delivered
When will we understand the power of words. They do have some prophetic elements to them.
However, if the church publicly endorses the lifestyles of people who justify their sin, then the church will have not reason to exist. "For nothing clean can come out of the unclean."
We really need to get away from the TV and engage people in the marketplace with the Gospel.
134

News Item2/21/15 2:52 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Elmer, this is where Bible study comes in. There is no problem understanding what influence the king had on the 1611 translation, as you can read what his mandatory translational requirements were. It was to do with ecclesiastical words. and so you get bishop instead of elder/overseer, church instead of assembly, and Easter, which ought to have been Passover.

Of course, if you want to have bishops in your church, then just stick with the KJV translation. So long as they don't have pointy hats, or think of themselves as a higher rank than elder, that's no problem. If you think that Easter is a Christian celebration, that's up to you. And if you think that church is a building where Christians meet, then I will call you a poor student.

Elmer wrote:
John, apparently the translators were intentionally deceitful with their wording choices and their intentional error with Easter, which is not in italics. As mentioned, they were influenced and biased, so how can we trust any other scriptures? Why would we expect them to be honest by putting entire scriptures that they added to suit the King or whoever in italics? Also heard of instances of capitalization regarding Spirit and God which can alter meaning.
133

News Item2/21/15 2:31 PM
Brother Saint Dear Elmer | Amish Country  Find all comments by Brother Saint Dear Elmer
Precious Brother Saint John, apparently the translators were intentionally deceitful with their wording choices and their intentional error with Easter, which is not in italics. As mentioned, they were influenced and biased, so how can we trust any other scriptures? Why would we expect them to be honest by putting entire scriptures that they added to suit the King or whoever in italics? Also heard of instances of capitalization regarding Spirit and God which can alter meaning.

John UK wrote:
Amen Walter, and thanks for sharing that. You have a grave responsibility, but I'm sure the Lord's grace will be sufficient. It's funny you should mention that story about looking upwards, as last night I shared something similar in group discussion. At the close of a detective story, the DCI is sitting in a pub garden by a river with his DS, and there is a beautiful sunset - declaring the glory of God - Psalm 19. The DCI says, "Who needs God when we've got things like that?"
Poor dab, whoever wrote that into the script.

It's not rocket science. Do you have a Bible? Look at the words in italic, these have been added by the translators, mostly to conform to English grammar. So in this case, the words "it be" have been added.

132

News Item2/21/15 2:05 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Amen Walter, and thanks for sharing that. You have a grave responsibility, but I'm sure the Lord's grace will be sufficient. It's funny you should mention that story about looking upwards, as last night I shared something similar in group discussion. At the close of a detective story, the DCI is sitting in a pub garden by a river with his DS, and there is a beautiful sunset - declaring the glory of God - Psalm 19. The DCI says, "Who needs God when we've got things like that?"

Poor dab, whoever wrote that into the script.

Elmer wrote:
Matthew 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
I've heard that "except it be for fornication" has been added by the translators.
It's not rocket science. Do you have a Bible? Look at the words in italic, these have been added by the translators, mostly to conform to English grammar. So in this case, the words "it be" have been added.

Man, you are soooooo childish.

131

News Item2/21/15 1:46 PM
Brother Saint Dear Elmer | Amish Ohio  Find all comments by Brother Saint Dear Elmer
Matthew 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

I've heard that "except it be for fornication" has been added by the translators.

Also heard that Romans 13 1-7 has been added too.

What ya think Brother Saint John and all you "elected" ones who have special revelation from the Almighty?

130

News Item2/21/15 11:19 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Dordt, is it important? Sure.

It consists of statements of doctrine adopted by the great Synod of Dordt which met in the city of Dordrecht in 1618-19. Although this was a national synod of the Reformed churches of the Netherlands, it had an international character, since it was composed not only of Dutch delegates but also of twenty-six delegates from eight foreign countries.

The Synod of Dordt was held in order to settle a serious controversy in the Dutch churches initiated by the rise of Arminianism. Jacob Arminius, a theological professor at Leiden University, questioned the teaching of Calvin and his followers on a number of important points. After Arminius's death, his own followers presented their views on five of these points in the Remonstrance of 1610. In this document or in later more explicit writings, the Arminians taught election based on foreseen faith, universal atonement, partial depravity, resistible grace, and the possibility of a lapse from grace. In the Canons the Synod of Dordt rejected these views and set forth the Reformed doctrine on these points, namely, unconditional election, limited atonement, total depravity, irresistible grace, and the perseverance of saints.
from CRTA

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