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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  3/24/2019
MONDAY, OCT 27, 2014  |  53 comments
The criminalization of Christianity is here
Kahnh Huynh knows something about living under in a society devoid of freedom of religion, speech and association.

He was one of millions in Communist Vietnam who fled the police state in rickety boats, sent to re-education prison camps for his Christian faith or political views or was killed for opposing totalitarianism.

Today, Kahnh is a U.S. citizen and Christian pastor whose sermons and communications about homosexuality are being subpoenaed by the lesbian mayor of Houston under the city’s “non-discrimination” law Mayor Annise Parker says was all about her.

As WND first reported, the measure, among other things, creates a special class of citizens for “gender-confused” people to use public restrooms designated for the opposite sex. ...


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
www.wnd.com

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 53 user comment(s)
News Item11/1/14 4:14 PM
Elmer K. Yoder | Berlin, Ohio  Find all comments by Elmer K. Yoder
I'm not the one trying to describe God as 3 persons. I'm trying to make sense of it myself. Since God is a spirit, then you're saying the trinity description is wrong?

Mike wrote:
The Father is a spirit; he doesn't have a physical body, nor will you find biblical support for it, We could go deeper, but you aren't quite making sense at the moment, Elmer.
53

News Item11/1/14 2:26 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Elmer K. Yoder wrote:
Right on Mike! Thanks.
So then the Father is a soul with a body and a spirit, the Son is a soul with a body and a spirit, and the Holy Spirit is a soul with a body and a spirit.
---
The Father is a spirit; he doesn't have a physical body, nor will you find biblical support for it, We could go deeper, but you aren't quite making sense at the moment, Elmer.
52

News Item11/1/14 12:15 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
I believe the Scriptures teach that God speaks in many ways to His children.

He speaks through nature according to Psalm 19. Whether it is the diligence of ant or the power of a storm, His hand can be seen in His creation.

He has given us the witness of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 4:6). If we know anything of hatred toward and striving against sin and holy living it is the work of God through His Spirit.

He speaks to us through the sharing of the Word of God (Titus 1:3) which could be a sermon or a word of exhortation from another believer, a book, a forum like this.
.
He speaks to us as we look to Christ (Hebrews 1)His words, His life, His death, His resurrection, His current high priestly ministry, and much more, all speak to us of God, His nature, His work on behalf of His chosen ones.

All have their root in one place, the Word of God. If we want much of God then it will be as we let His Word dwell on us richly become the source of our meditations and prayers. (Matthew 4:4)

For Elmer recommend https://archive.org/details/TheTrinityByEHBickersteth

51

News Item11/1/14 10:24 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Helps wrote:
Not a view of revival that everyone would agree with John. The other way of viewing it is to say that the churches have a great commission which they are supposed to be obeying, The Lord being with them as he promised. But, from time to time, in the Sovereignty of God, there are special visitations, when God grants an extraordinary sense of his presence and power and there follow extraordinary blessings. This view certainly is more faithful to church history and does not unjustly condemn or deride churches that seek to obey the great commission and only see limited blessing as determined by a Sovereign God.
God bless brother.
I can go along with that, bro. This is evidenced throughout history, and is the prerogative of the sovereign God.

But at the same time, I don't want to fall asleep in Zion, grieve or quench the Spirit, thus disobeying God when he says, "......but be ye filled with the Spirit." Ephesians 5:18, which thing does concern me. And I'm not up to thirtyfold yet, let alone sixtyfold or an hundredfold. Am I so alone in my lamentations?

50

News Item11/1/14 10:14 AM
Helps | UK  Find all comments by Helps
John UK wrote:
..
As for revival being the norm or not. If a flower is wilting in a vase, it probably needs watering. Then it revives. Now if a believer is wilting, they need (as Lloyd-Jones said), a fresh baptism of the Spirit and of fire. And he continued to say that if a large group of believers were baptised with the Spirit all together, that was a revival - big time.
Not a view of revival that everyone would agree with John. The other way of viewing it is to say that the churches have a great commission which they are supposed to be obeying, The Lord being with them as he promised. But, from time to time, in the Sovereignty of God, there are special visitations, when God grants an extraordinary sense of his presence and power and there follow extraordinary blessings. This view is IMHO more faithful to church history and does not unjustly condemn or deride churches that seek to obey the great commission and only see limited blessing as determined by a Sovereign God.

God bless brother.

49

News Item11/1/14 9:57 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Helps wrote:
Hi John
Just a quick comment for consideration. As you know the Church meeting at the Met Tab do a sterling gospel work and each year they see quite a number saved and added to their numbers. I recall at one of the Seminary sessions Dr Masters commenting on the books on Revivals printed by the BOT, and other books pretty much telling us that that is what we should all be seeking. Dr Masters comment was that this proves to be a useful distraction for churches that are not working churches.
Yes indeed Helps UK.

I also have argued exactly the same thing, and the reply came back that if God was not with us, there would be no point to the working. So there was justification for not obeying God in the first place. But I reckon that if God is obeyed, then there will be blessing. There may also be trials and persecutions, but God has promised to be with his people.

As for revival being the norm or not. If a flower is wilting in a vase, it probably needs watering. Then it revives. Now if a believer is wilting, they need (as Lloyd-Jones said), a fresh baptism of the Spirit and of fire. And he continued to say that if a large group of believers were baptised with the Spirit all together, that was a revival - big time.

48

News Item11/1/14 9:46 AM
Helps | UK  Find all comments by Helps
John UK wrote:
.......
It is the same with revival. Until a person experiences it for themself, they flap about like a beached stingray..
Hi John

Just a quick comment for consideration. As you know the Church meeting at the Met Tab do a sterling gospel work and each year they see quite a number saved and added to their numbers. I recall at one of the Seminary sessions Dr Masters commenting on the books on Revivals printed by the BOT, and other books pretty much telling us that that is what we should all be seeking. Dr Masters comment was that this proves to be a useful distraction for churches that are not working churches. In other words where there is no emphasis on Gospel work, with all church members involved in Christian service, the only way they can envisage any blessing is by way of Revival. Instead of remedying their lack of service they gather to pray for revival. It seems to me that in your insistence that revival conditions should be the norm, you are advocating something similar with the added aspect of what you term 'experiential' Christianity, a term you are not using in its usual meaning, because every true Christian experiences The Lord and has a relationship with him, whatever you may think of the quality of that.
God bless

47

News Item11/1/14 8:13 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
At Axemouth in Devon, England, there is a little outdoor café by the estuary. I was walking by there one day, and spotted an Anglican minister at a table. I knew him because his wife ran a craft shop in the village of Seaton, where I lived. So I bought an ice cream and sat down with him.

Now I am one for plain talking - as you all know - so I asked him what he thought Jesus meant when he said, "Ye must be born again."

Now there was no hesitation about his answer, he was not joking, this is what he said: "Well, in the church, there are various offices leading up to the top. It was the same in Jewish times. And whenever someone climbed the ladder in office and was promoted, it was said that he was born again."

Now please note that I did not call him an idiot, rather I felt quite sad for him. You see, he had not a clue as to what Jesus meant. And so I explained it to him, what the real meaning is.

Now this happens all the time. Until a person is born again, they'll never know what it is like. They might speculate, guess, argue and the like. But until they experience the new birth, they cannot know nor understand.

It is the same with revival. Until a person experiences it for themself, they flap about like a beached stingray, saying all sorts of things.

46

News Item11/1/14 7:29 AM
Elmer K. Yoder | Berlin, Ohio  Find all comments by Elmer K. Yoder
Right on Mike! Thanks.

So then the Father is a soul with a body and a spirit, the Son is a soul with a body and a spirit, and the Holy Spirit is a soul with a body and a spirit.

Mike wrote:
Start at the right place, then proceed. You don't have a soul, you are a soul. You have a body and a spirit.
Gen 2:7 "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
1 Cor 15:45 "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."
Job 4:24 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.
WCF - Chapter XXIII
Of the Civil Magistrate

One example.

I never even heard of a non-resistance Calvinist or Protestant. Who are we to find in the military usually, the Calvinist or an Anabaptist?

Troll Spotter wrote:
Are they all murderers?
Where in their creed or theological beliefs do they approve of murder?
Their belief that the church and state are co-extensive is certainly an error and leads to undesired consequences, but does this make them murderers? How so?
45

News Item11/1/14 7:22 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
...Not that anyone did that here, but it's usually what happens as conversations digress.
44

News Item11/1/14 7:22 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
John UK Wrote:
"The problem is, that anytime anyone talks about experiential Christianity, they get roped in with charismaticism, mysticism, and a whole lot of other isms. And all we want to talk about is biblical Christianity, which is undeniably POWERFUL. The SAME Holy Ghost who indwelt Christ, indwelt Peter, indwelt Paul, indwells the least of all the saints."

Good comments, John, Lurker, and Michael. TS, I've been following the conversations as well and have been around long enough to know that nobody sways towards Charismaticism, and think some thoughts are just not being explained clearly or misunderstood. Besides that, even if they did, we're certainly not talking about a Sermon Audio majority, so no need to be steppin' out and movin' on. : ) You're staying put, and that's that. That's an order, soldier...ha-ha.
Look, we are all.different, all human, all error prone, fallen, sinful, unworthy of anything, and have our own opinions on certain gray areas that can be argued by all sides. The only way we can come to any sort of end on these gray areas is to simply agree to disagree and move on at times. Moving on from open minded discussions to talking at people is what usually causes things to heat up and turn friends into enemies. Not that anyone did that her

43

News Item11/1/14 6:54 AM
Elmer K. Yoder | Berlin, Ohio  Find all comments by Elmer K. Yoder
And where do we find a definition for person? It appears to me that even the scriptures indicate that a person is a man or woman (soul, body, spirit). And I don't know why you are calling me a unitarian. The scriptures I provided are what I believe. I do not worship in any particular building called a "church" or whatever. God is to be worshiped everywhere at all times. Or maybe I'm wrong about that.

The issue is not with me and what I believe anyway. The problem is with describing God as 3 persons which describes him as a trinity of trinities.

Troll Spotter wrote:
Anyways Elmer, you take the dictionary definition offered by an unbelieving world and apply it to the God of the Scriptures?
We make no headway when you quote verses without offering the slightest explanation. I could do the same in support of the trinity.
You are obviously a Unitarian, so why the subterfuge? Come straight out and tell us where you worship, whether it's a Kingdom Hall or wherever.
GSTexas wrote:
If he is who we think he is, he is a troll that needs to be ignored.
I am Elmer. Why do you call me a troll? What is it that you don't like?
42

News Item11/1/14 5:52 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Michael Hranek wrote:
I've been around Charismatic Mysticism, seen Word of Faith Heresies up close even to a man dying because he was claiming healing and to show his faith he abandoned the heart medication he was taking
and that kind of religious foolishness (being polite) is simply NOT what we are talking about here
I knew a South African pastor in Somerset, England, who was caught up in Word of Faith, especially Kenneth Copeland. One day he was suddenly diagnosed with cancer and sent home to die. His little, pioneering church all agreed for his healing, prayed, and gave God thanks for his complete healing and restoration. Shortly after, he died. I'll never forget what his wife said, "I never even said goodbye to him, I always thought he would be healed." So sad.

So yes, Michael, thanks for your post, it certainly is NOT what we are talking about. The problem is, that anytime anyone talks about experiential Christianity, they get roped in with charismaticism, mysticism, and a whole lot of other isms. And all we want to talk about is biblical Christianity, which is undeniably POWERFUL. The SAME Holy Ghost who indwelt Christ, indwelt Peter, indwelt Paul, indwells the least of all the saints.

41

News Item10/31/14 9:55 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Troll Spotter wrote:
don't know that I will be continuing here for much longer. I'm obviously out of step with the majority thinking here, which seems to lean more towards charismatic mysticism.
Brother TS,

I've been following the discussion on the other thread between you and John. I'm not going to get involved because there will probably never be agreement and I suspect that is because there isn't enough scripture to make an argument.

That said, I know John and Michael well enough to know their strongest conviction is for the lost and if it were possible they'd be on the street every day preaching. Not all have that conviction. For example the difference between William Tyndale and George Whitefield. They were both used mightily by God but each had a different conviction from God. How they came to hold those deep convictions that they both gave their lives for could only be by God's Spirit very strong on them, guiding them to fulfill His plan. Whether this accounts for the burst of zeal from John and Michael about how God guides His people to accomplish His will I don't know but I suspect it does.

You're not out of step, bro. Maybe you and John need to take a step back and see God's hand guiding you both in different ways for different purposes.

40

News Item10/31/14 8:29 PM
Troll Spotter  Find all comments by Troll Spotter
Michael Hranek wrote:
....you yourself have been in revival meeting where you ..experienced the presence of God in a powerful way ... and I think it is safe to say you would not call those experiences "Charismatic Mysticism"..
Brother Michael

All my experiences of God's powerful presence centre around the Word of God. I've been in meetings where God's presence is so powerful that his word comes to life and every heart present is captivated by that word to such a degree that you could literally hear a pin drop. After the meeting there is no small talk, but every soul says how they have been deeply affected by the word and we have wonderful fellowship discussing the ramifications of what we've heard and how we may best help each other in our walks with The Lord. No one at anytime has ever mentioned hearing voices: this is heart converse only leading to definite change.

We don't have any showy stage shows, no miracle workers etc

As I explained occasionally I've had what I can only refer to as promotings or premonitions which are so deeply impressed on my heart that I feel compelled to do or say something, but I'm never sure whether these are of The Lord and I wouldn't feel confident to ascribe them to him for fear of lying.

Lord bless.

39

News Item10/31/14 8:14 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Find all comments by Michael Hranek
Troll Spotter wrote:
I got back early so checking in. However, don't know that I will be continuing here for much longer. I'm obviously out of step with the majority thinking here, which seems to lean more towards charismatic mysticism.
Troll Spotter
Whoa!

Trust me (assuming, that despite my imperfections, failings and rough edges I have earned a measure of Biblical credibility and respect with you)
I've been around Charismatic Mysticism, seen Word of Faith Heresies up close even to a man dying because he was claiming healing and to show his faith he abandoned the heart medication he was taking
and that kind of religious foolishness (being polite) is simply NOT what we are talking about here

I am assuming John UK, myself and others are speaking of, testifying of a faith that is both very real Biblically and in the Sovereignty of God experiential from time to time in our lives as well

If I have read your posts accurately you yourself have been in revival meeting where you, in my words here, experienced the presence of God in a powerful way ... and I think it is safe to say you would not call those experiences "Charismatic Mysticism" "BUT" I do consider there are those in our churches who don't realize such a "visitation" is possible

38

News Item10/31/14 7:59 PM
Dorcas  Find all comments by Dorcas
TS,
Would hate to see leave as you have been most helpful in exposing the scurrilous impostors that seem to plague this site.
Speaking for myself, we are pretty much in step I to reject charismatic emotionalism, mysticism, etc.
37

News Item10/31/14 7:58 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Elmer K. Yoder wrote:
Any dictionary will tell you a person is a human being. A human being is commonly considered a man or woman, though the unscriptural term human being is worth investigation. A man or woman is body, soul, and spirit - or do you believe otherwise? Therefore, 3 persons is equivalent to the Father (body, soul, spirit), the Son (body, soul, spirit), the Holy Spirit (body, soul, spirit).
---
Start at the right place, then proceed. You don't have a soul, you are a soul. You have a body and a spirit.

Gen 2:7 "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

1 Cor 15:45 "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."

Job 4:24 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

36

News Item10/31/14 7:40 PM
Troll Spotter  Find all comments by Troll Spotter
Elmer K. Yoder wrote:
Any dictionary will tell you a person is a human being. A human being is commonly considered a man or woman, though the unscriptural term human being is worth investigation. A man or woman is body, soul, and spirit - or do you believe otherwise?...
It is written: ...
I got back early so checking in. However, don't know that I will be continuing here for much longer. I'm obviously out of step with the majority thinking here, which seems to lean more towards charismatic mysticism.

Anyways Elmer, you take the dictionary definition offered by an unbelieving world and apply it to the God of the Scriptures?

We make no headway when you quote verses without offering the slightest explanation. I could do the same in support of the trinity.

You are obviously a Unitarian, so why the subterfuge? Come straight out and tell us where you worship, whether it's a Kingdom Hall or wherever.

BTW, any religionists will profess to have love for God. But if you cannot love and worship the trinitarian God of the Bible, your profession is worthless because you've created your own god to worship.

Will check in again tomorrow for your reply.

35

News Item10/31/14 7:24 PM
GSTexas  Find all comments by GSTexas
Dorcas wrote:
GS,
I had the very same thought a few days ago when I read his posts.
Thanks for confirming it.
If he is who we think he is, he is a troll that needs to be ignored.
34
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