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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | Fridays | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  12/13/2017
FRIDAY, APR 4, 2014  |  368 comments  |  1 commentary
Author says Calvinism can’t make sense of the cross

America is experiencing a Calvinist revival. Or so said Mark Oppenheimer of The New York Times recently.

Amidst the boom of this theological framework, Austin Fischer explains why he joined and then exited the movement. His new book, Young, Restless, and No Longer Reformed: Black Holes, Love, and a Journey In and Out of Calvinism, catalogues why he waved goodbye to a theological framework that attracts so many. The book has been causing quite a stir, so I decided to sit down with Fischer and discuss his story and why he’s chosen to speak out in this way. ...


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jonathanmerritt.religionnews.com

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 368 user comment(s)
News Item4/12/14 8:25 PM
CV  Find all comments by CV
Charles Taze Russell thought that the idea of hell made God look bad. So CT came up with his own theology & started a new cult - the JW's- with their re-write of the bible.

It is a dangerous thing to lean on mans own understanding to explain that which belongs in the hands of God alone.

From eternity past, God has always existed. In eternity past, before the foundations of the world, God made the plan and ordained the Creation, the Fall, the Incarnation and Resurrection, and the Salvation of His people - FOR HIS GLORY.
We don't understand that fully. What we do understand fully is that God is absolutely just and loving, and that no wrong can be found in Him.

But the Arminian man is before all things, and in him all things hold together. He knows the secrets of the universe and without his rationale understanding and will, nobody goes to heaven or hell.
Fischer says that what God ordained in eternity past gives him a bad image. So he writes a book to give the image a makeover, and restores the glory where it belongs - to the man. But Fischer's real claim to fame is that he dissed the 'C' word. Armin's are rushing to him because - he hates Calvinism.

Armin's don't want to admit being called Armin's. But they are all too eager to call the DOG Calvinism.

368

News Item4/10/14 8:33 PM
Liza J  Find all comments by Liza J
Excellent sermon preached on this news article.
Pastor Curtis Knapp...Calvinism can't explain the cross?
367

News Item4/10/14 6:40 PM
Harold Antwhistle  Find all comments by Harold Antwhistle
R. K. Borill wrote:
Oh, I would have no problem defending unconditional election. However, I believe it would be a waste of time with someone who a) disregards the continuity of scripture and b) the arguer decides on want he wants to believe, and then asserts that reality matches that belief. Under these conditions, I would be casting pearls before . . .
You really are a piece of work!

How do you surmise that I do not believe in the continuity of Scripture (whatever you mean by that)? As for "the arguer decides on want he wants to believe, and then asserts that reality matches that belief", you do that all the time and in fact use it as an excuse not to answer difficult questions.

I haven't seen you answer anyone yet; you're so smug in your ignorance.

366

News Item4/10/14 11:49 AM
M. Kerson  Find all comments by M. Kerson
Total Depravity.

"The natural man is not depraved in spots, but the whole of his being is depraved. The "carnal mind is enmity against God" (Rom. 8:7); "and the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked" (Jer. 17:9); "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies" (Matt. 15:19); the will is in bondage to sin "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:44), "And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life" (John 5:40); "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13). The human will is no better than the mind and the heart that controls it. Men choose what they do because of the state of their minds and hearts." (C.D.Cole)

365

News Item4/10/14 11:33 AM
penned  Find all comments by penned
Mike, I agree, about the changing alias.

the cookie comment was meant to relate to "elders of every church" -- I asked some kids yesterday what they would think I meant if I called so and so, all their buddies together and said, "I have cookies for every child"... They told me that they would interpret it to mean they would each get cookies. but at this point I feel more like I'm quibbling than doing any good. you all have a great day.

364

News Item4/10/14 9:23 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
R. K. Borill wrote:
John UK from Wales,
It is a good thought, and not just presbyterians but also anglicans and catholics and methodists, any who have fallen for genealogical succession, baby sprinkling, false assurance, and misunderstanding biblical doctrine concerning the covenant of grace/redemption.
RK responds,
Still at I see, John. John, John, see if the following characteristics match your behavior associated a priori fallacy:
Often the arguer, when faced with reality that differs from the belief, deploys other fallacies and strategies to support a priori.
Eh?

If you would care to mention where you think I am stating an untruth, I will be very glad to hear it. That will give me an opportunity to show you why you are wrong. Ahhhh.....the plain language is the best!

363

News Item4/9/14 10:49 PM
R. K. Borill | Baton Rouge, Louisiana  Find all comments by R. K. Borill
Mike writes,

In tulip world the ones who were chosen to come inside from before the foundation of the world would be irresistibly drawn in. The rest would be left outside without cookies, for they were chosen to be without cookies from before the foundation of the world.

RK responds,

Ok Mike for the sake of argument in response to your non scriptural analogy, YES, the rest would be left outside. But, what is that to them? They didn't want the cookies anyway, so why should they begrudge those that get the cookies?

362

News Item4/9/14 10:27 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
R. K. Borill wrote:
Ha writes,
Now please just answer the question by elucidating the text that you quoted to start this conversation with Mike. Show me how that text teaches unconditional election. Or are you finding this too difficult?
I'll be back tomorrow to check for an answer from you.
RK responds,
Oh, I would have no problem defending unconditional election. However, I believe it would be a waste of time with someone who a) disregards the continuity of scripture and b) the arguer decides on want he wants to believe, and then asserts that reality matches that belief. Under these conditions, I would be casting pearls before . . .
The discussion between you and alias whosoever isn't terribly uplifting. How about getting back to the cookies and how they may be rightfully received by the children penny asked about?
361

News Item4/9/14 9:11 PM
R. K. Borill | Baton Rouge, Louisiana  Find all comments by R. K. Borill
Ha writes,

Now please just answer the question by elucidating the text that you quoted to start this conversation with Mike. Show me how that text teaches unconditional election. Or are you finding this too difficult?

I'll be back tomorrow to check for an answer from you.

RK responds,

Oh, I would have no problem defending unconditional election. However, I believe it would be a waste of time with someone who a) disregards the continuity of scripture and b) the arguer decides on want he wants to believe, and then asserts that reality matches that belief. Under these conditions, I would be casting pearls before . . .

360

News Item4/9/14 8:50 PM
Ha  Find all comments by Ha
R. K. Borill wrote:
Ha,
No, it's not a straw man. If we can't agree on the continuity of scripture. We will never agree. Salvation is by grace alone.
It is a strawman, because that is simply not a point in dispute.

Now please just answer the question by elucidating the text that you quoted to start this conversation with Mike. Show me how that text teaches unconditional election. Or are you finding this too difficult?

I'll be back tomorrow to check for an answer from you.

359

News Item4/9/14 8:45 PM
R. K. Borill | Baton Rouge, Louisiana  Find all comments by R. K. Borill
Ha,

No, it's not a straw man. If we can't agree on the continuity of scripture. We will never agree. Salvation is by grace alone.

358

News Item4/9/14 8:38 PM
R. K. Borill | Baton Rouge, Louisiana  Find all comments by R. K. Borill
Suggestion writes,

For all we know, your name is an alias too.

RK responds,

Lol. For all you know. . . Lol

357

News Item4/9/14 8:30 PM
Ha  Find all comments by Ha
R. K. Borill wrote:
Ha writes,
You brought up 2 Peter 1.10. Let's just stick with that for the time being before we jump down the next rabbit hole!
So your answer to my question is? Please in your own words without a cryptic scripture reference from which we're supposed to guess your answer.
RK responds,
That's why I asked at the beginning if you have regard for the authority of scripture.
Your response suggests that there is a disjoint between what the Holy Spirit said by Peter and what he said by Paul. Did he not say that scripture interprets scripture. If not then there is contradiction. Are you suggesting that Peter contradicts Paul??
Strawman!

Answer the question.

356

News Item4/9/14 8:28 PM
R. K. Borill | Baton Rouge, Louisiana  Find all comments by R. K. Borill
Ha writes,

You brought up 2 Peter 1.10. Let's just stick with that for the time being before we jump down the next rabbit hole!

So your answer to my question is? Please in your own words without a cryptic scripture reference from which we're supposed to guess your answer.

RK responds,
That's why I asked at the beginning if you have regard for the authority of scripture.

Your response suggests that there is a disjoint between what the Holy Spirit said by Peter and what he said by Paul. Did he not say that scripture interprets scripture. If not then there is contradiction. Are you suggesting that Peter contradicts Paul??

355

News Item4/9/14 8:28 PM
Suggestion  Find all comments by Suggestion
R. K. Borill wrote:
Suggestion writes,
Again, non-specific, dismissive and sanctimonious.
What a surprise!
RK responds,
Again, non-specific, dismissive, and sanctimonious.
This doesn't surprise me coming from someone who hides behind an alias.
For all we know, your name is an alias too.

You teach children and minister God's word? Amazing!

354

News Item4/9/14 8:22 PM
R. K. Borill | Baton Rouge, Louisiana  Find all comments by R. K. Borill
Suggestion writes,

Again, non-specific, dismissive and sanctimonious.

What a surprise!

RK responds,

Again, non-specific, dismissive, and sanctimonious.

This doesn't surprise me coming from someone who hides behind an alias.

353

News Item4/9/14 8:21 PM
Ha  Find all comments by Ha
R. K. Borill wrote:
RK responds,
Do you have any regard for the authority of Scripture? If you do, let's ask Paul what he thinks of OUR input.....
You brought up 2 Peter 1.10. Let's just stick with that for the time being before we jump down the next rabbit hole!

So your answer to my question is? Please in your own words without a cryptic scripture reference from which we're supposed to guess your answer.

352

News Item4/9/14 8:20 PM
Suggestion  Find all comments by Suggestion
R. K. Borill wrote:
Suggestion writes:
What say you Borill? Can you play the man? Or are you always going to hide behind weasel words and sanctimony?
RK responds,
Cowards, criminals, and weasels hide behind an alias.
Oh no, one doesn't have to hide behind an alias to be a coward. Just look at you. Free with accusations, but used for the purposes of derision only. Why, if it was specific and dealt with honestly someone might answer it and make you look real silly. Can't risk that can we, Mr reformed minister?
351

News Item4/9/14 8:17 PM
R. K. Borill | Baton Rouge, Louisiana  Find all comments by R. K. Borill
Suggestion writes:

What say you Borill? Can you play the man? Or are you always going to hide behind weasel words and sanctimony?

RK responds,

Cowards, criminals, and weasels hide behind an alias.

350

News Item4/9/14 8:10 PM
Suggestion  Find all comments by Suggestion
R. K. Borill wrote:
Suggestion writes,
This is how honest people conduct themselves. Deceivers level charges which are never specific. They can never produce any evidence when called to do so, and never hang around to be held accountable, or if they do, like SteveR they treat such accountability as inconsequential.
What say you Borill? Can you play the man? Or are you always going to hide behind weasel words and sanctimony?
RK responds,
"Suggestion" or whatever names lies behind this alias,
If you care for evidence of fallacious arguments, I "suggest " you read what you wrote.
Also, regarding your irrelevant conclusion, you are obviously joining this discussion on the tail end here or you deliberately disregard John' s misrepresentations of Presbyterians.
Again, non-specific, dismissive and sanctimonious.

What a surprise!

349
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