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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | Fridays | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  11/22/2017
MONDAY, APR 22, 2013  |  18 comments
Feds halt business to clear path for rodents
A lawsuit has been launched by the Pacific Legal Foundation on behalf of property owners in Cedar City, Utah, whose private land effectively is being confiscated by the federal government for the use of a species of rodent that has been determined to have “no commercial value.”

It names as defendants the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Director Daniel M. Ashe, Regional Director Noreen Walsh and others.

The case focuses on the mandated protections for the Utah prairie dog, a type of ground squirrel, or rodent, established by the federal government for owners of private property in the Utah region.

A new rule that was imposed just last fall demands that property owners are not allowed to “harass, harm, pursue, hunt, shoot, wound, kill, trap, capture, or collect” the animals – including when they are blocking construction, development or the protection of private property. ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 18 user comment(s)
News Item4/23/13 7:02 AM
origins  Find all comments by origins
Mike wrote:
I couldn't say this means he couldn't have passed over some.... it doesn't seem too outlandish to suppose they disappeared in the flood.
And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female. Genesis 6.19

Every living thing of all flesh

18

News Item4/23/13 6:47 AM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
I'm an animal and nature lover, but this seems extreme...giving Prarie dogs these types of rights over human concerns (in this specific case). I don't hunt and never would unless my life depended on it and I have a disdain for sport hunters. I wish they could be displaced or dispersed somehow instead of the Fedefal government giving them rights like these. I just think we overdo it at times like when acres of prime land are declared a sanctuary because a bird's nest is found in a tree, etc
Interesting thoughts concerning extinctions because if the flood. I figured that since God ordered two of every kind into the ark, that any extinctions happened as life continued afterwards. We don't see many creatures found embedded in ice and rock today, but I always believed that Noah and his crew did.
17

News Item4/22/13 7:15 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Goff's Pocket Gopher wrote:
---
So, including as a result of any non-wanton destruction of habitat, do you believe any species or kinds (define how you will) were made extinct either
(a) in the flood or
(b) in the immediate aftermath of the flood as a direct result of having no habitat to sustain them?
Personally, given (i) Scripture's silence on such extinctions, (ii) the active divine work that brought all of the animals safely into the ark to accomplish God's saving purpose, and (iii) God does not act wantonly, I strongly think not.
---
As you say the Bible is silent on it, but I couldn't say this means he couldn't have passed over some. If it works for the Calvinist concerning men, why not animals, who are lesser creations in his eyes?

Since we see remains of animals no longer in existence buried in water deposited sedimentary rock, and in frozen soil so quickly changed from lush vegetation to icy tomb, (climate change extraordinary) it doesn't seem too outlandish to suppose they disappeared in the flood. If we could trace descendants of dinosaurs to something alive today, other than speculatively, the argument would be weakened of course.

16

News Item4/22/13 7:07 PM
Fiddlersmom2  Find all comments by Fiddlersmom2
I agree with unprofitable servant 100 percent.
15

News Item4/22/13 6:29 PM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Goff's Pocket Gopher wrote:
Mike,
1. To be fair, I have been extinct for some time now.
2. Thank you for the clarification. Water itself is not a pollutant, but rather essential to life. Habitats therefore would seem to have been restored after the flood, as Scripture tells us the floodwaters drained away.
3. I am aware where to find the text, and of course you are freely forgiven for the unintentional offence.
4. Thanks for the observation. I see that you could construe it that way, but can assure you that such was not intended. Glad to clarify. God is righteous in all his ways. Men may not wantonly destroy God's creation without sinning.
So, including as a result of any non-wanton destruction of habitat, do you believe any species or kinds (define how you will) were made extinct either
(a) in the flood or
(b) in the immediate aftermath of the flood as a direct result of having no habitat to sustain them?
Personally, given (i) Scripture's silence on such extinctions, (ii) the active divine work that brought all of the animals safely into the ark to accomplish God's saving purpose, and (iii) God does not act wantonly, I strongly think not.
Goff, Do you own a Pocket Gopher? That is a joke.
14

News Item4/22/13 6:25 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Goff's Pocket Gopher wrote:
Mike,
..."?
Well, seeing that there are extinct creatures like the dinosaurs that could not adapt the new climate that God set up, then I would say yes.
13

News Item4/22/13 5:22 PM
Goff's Pocket Gopher  Find all comments by Goff's Pocket Gopher
Mike,

1. To be fair, I have been extinct for some time now.
2. Thank you for the clarification. Water itself is not a pollutant, but rather essential to life. Habitats therefore would seem to have been restored after the flood, as Scripture tells us the floodwaters drained away.
3. I am aware where to find the text, and of course you are freely forgiven for the unintentional offence.
4. Thanks for the observation. I see that you could construe it that way, but can assure you that such was not intended. Glad to clarify. God is righteous in all his ways. Men may not wantonly destroy God's creation without sinning.

So, including as a result of any non-wanton destruction of habitat, do you believe any species or kinds (define how you will) were made extinct either
(a) in the flood or
(b) in the immediate aftermath of the flood as a direct result of having no habitat to sustain them?

Personally, given (i) Scripture's silence on such extinctions, (ii) the active divine work that brought all of the animals safely into the ark to accomplish God's saving purpose, and (iii) God does not act wantonly, I strongly think not.

US - and you would take that "dominion" to such an extent that man may kill and destroy entire species that God created and declared "very good"?

12

News Item4/22/13 5:13 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Man was given dominion, now unless I do not understand what dominion means, that means he, not the creatures, has the the preeminence. If the creatures are in the way, then man can move them. We are free to eat any creature (see Genesis 6) so we are free to hunt and kill them. In fact God put the dread of man in the creatures. So, the EPA needs to get out of trying to tell a private property owner he can't dispose of the animals on his property. There is a consequence for not killing animal population because we somehow thing they are sacred. Ask the people of India
11

News Item4/22/13 4:54 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Goff's Pocket Gopher wrote:
1) Yes, the question is designed to highlight your error. This is a discussion forum. Iron sharpens iron, and all that. I have learnt from many on here.
2) So, yes, the question only matters in response to your position. You brought up the Flood, not me - so defend your position.
3) You claimed this divine action as your exegetical basis, making mockery of the word of God, implying that men can imitate God by destroying species (or kinds) if they like.
4) Even if you could demonstrate from the Word of God alone that God destroyed entire species (or kinds) in the Flood, my position does not change.
God can do with his creation as he wishes. Men are not God and may not wantonly destroy without sinning.
1) Haven't seen Goff's Pocket Gopher here before today, so I take it you're a quick sharpenee?

2) I brought up the water as a response to your destruction of habitat post. Destruction of habitat is destruction, no matter the source. Since that is my position, there is nothing more to defend.

3) There is no mockery in relaying what God did. You can read it a little further on in Genesis. If you are offended at the post's sarcasm, my apologies.

4) This implies God may wantonly destroy. He doesn't.

10

News Item4/22/13 4:51 PM
San Jose John | San Jose, CA  Find all comments by San Jose John
The Stossel show recently featured the owners of the businesses that would be affected, along with the PLF attorney for the case. The video can be found on YouTube.
9

News Item4/22/13 3:21 PM
Goff's Pocket Gopher  Find all comments by Goff's Pocket Gopher
Mike wrote:
to find a way to gotcha.
Yes, the question is designed to highlight your error. This is a discussion forum. Iron sharpens iron, and all that. I have learnt from many on here.

So, yes, the question only matters in response to your position. You brought up the Flood, not me - so defend your position.

You claimed this divine action as your exegetical basis, making mockery of the word of God, implying that men can imitate God by destroying species (or kinds) if they like.

Even if you could demonstrate from the Word of God alone that God destroyed entire species (or kinds) in the Flood, my position does not change.

God can do with his creation as he wishes. Men are not God and may not wantonly destroy without sinning.

8

News Item4/22/13 3:00 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Goff's Pocket Gopher wrote:
You are waffling Mike.
Are you attributing entire species extinctions to the great Flood? Yes or No?
I like waffles. Besides, your question isn't designed to find out what I think, but to find a way to gotcha. Why don't you answer your own question? Tell us what you think about it. Define species so as to clarify what you mean by "entire species."
7

News Item4/22/13 2:36 PM
Goff's Pocket Gopher  Find all comments by Goff's Pocket Gopher
Mike wrote:
There are some critters that don't exist anymore, and their remains are oft found in sediment deposits, and large vegetarian types have been found in Arctic regions, frozen while they ate greenery. I suppose the bunny could have descended from the line of T-Rex, though. Sure would make it a lot easier on the ark dwellers
You are waffling Mike.
Are you attributing entire species extinctions to the great Flood? Yes or No?
6

News Item4/22/13 2:20 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Goff's Pocket Gopher wrote:
Mike,
Problem is, you are not God.
He is sovereign, and has the right to do with his creation as he pleases.
How many species died out as a result of the flood?
There are some critters that don't exist anymore, and their remains are oft found in sediment deposits, and large vegetarian types have been found in Arctic regions, frozen while they ate greenery. I suppose the bunny could have descended from the line of T-Rex, though. Sure would make it a lot easier on the ark dwellers
5

News Item4/22/13 1:55 PM
Goff's Pocket Gopher  Find all comments by Goff's Pocket Gopher
Mike wrote:
Then but for a few animals and humans preserved, employed water to destroy them and their natural habitat. Where is the DEC when you really need them? Did Noah even have a permit to cut down all those gopher wood trees?
Mike,

Problem is, you are not God.
He is sovereign, and has the right to do with his creation as he pleases.
How many species died out as a result of the flood?

4

News Item4/22/13 1:39 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Goff's Pocket Gopher wrote:
I would think the creatures themselves are better judges than you as to where is the best natural habitat for them to live.
Evil evolutionists believe animals can adapt and evolve to their environment. God created a diverse creation of animals in specific habitats. Habitat destruction is the biggest single cause of extinction.
God did not give us dominion over every creeping thing that creepeth on the earth in order to wipe out his new creation.
"And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."
---
Then but for a few animals and humans preserved, employed water to destroy them and their natural habitat. Where is the DEC when you really need them? Did Noah even have a permit to cut down all those gopher wood trees?
3

News Item4/22/13 12:08 PM
Goff's Pocket Gopher  Find all comments by Goff's Pocket Gopher
Bro. James wrote:
Then lets " transplant" them to another location.
I would think the creatures themselves are better judges than you as to where is the best natural habitat for them to live.

Evil evolutionists believe animals can adapt and evolve to their environment. God created a diverse creation of animals in specific habitats. Habitat destruction is the biggest single cause of extinction.

God did not give us dominion over every creeping thing that creepeth on the earth in order to wipe out his new creation.

"And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

Bro. James wrote:
Wow ! Stupidity runs RAMPANT !!!!
Indeed!
2

News Item4/22/13 9:48 AM
Bro. James | Texas  Find all comments by Bro. James
Then lets " transplant" them to another location.
Wow ! Stupidity runs RAMPANT !!!!
1
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