That‚Äôs the question tackled by documentary producer Colin Gunn in his new film, IndoctriNation: Public Schools and the Decline of Christianity in America (see the trailer below).
The debate is spelled out right at the beginning of the film by two heavyweights in the world of evangelical Christianity. Albert Mohler, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, makes his position clear: ‚ÄúI am convinced that the time has come for Christians to develop an exit strategy from the public schools.‚ÄĚ Franklin Graham, son of evangelist Billy Graham and president of Samaritan‚Äôs Purse, is equally clear: ‚ÄúI want to see a child in every public school in America who is trained as a witness for Jesus Christ.‚ÄĚ
So should Christians stay and fight from within, or abandon a system they perceive as broken?...
Basically Bob Jones" ism", and or Fundamentalism, is a political system embodied in a form of a close likeness of Christianity but with a hierachy system that is for bidden by Christ but must be obtained and enforced to keep the cult alive.
Imgaine no ruthless leaders like, Cjuck Phelps and the board of BJU that can't find a problem with a 44 year old pastor that can't drive 10 minutes to fill ou...t an actual police report on a little raped girl in his church but he can move heaven and hell to hide, lie and ship off the broken package 2,000 miles away.
So you now can see what should be evident all along as if Bob Jones & a few other Fundies think that they bought the rights to God's word and the Image of Christ and so now they can dicatate what they want to be true, who they want to be guilty, who they feel deserve to be free and mostly victums of their system can be punished indefinitly.
That is why you shake your head as I do, on all of these bad and I mean crazy bad decision that are frequentley made and why they come from what you thought were Godly men and women. Leaders in a system like this as well as the past the peple we know about called Pharasees by Jesus can do the opposite of Christ because they think and act as if they own God.
I'm a junior in a public high school, and I ask, what did Jesus say? He said that He left the 99 sheep to find the one that was lost, no matter the cost. Who are we to decide whether its possible or not? For all things are possible for those who those
The answer to that is probably not. They are not public schools, they are government schools.Existing to make good little government subjects if us all.Of course they will make as much money as possible with their coercive tactics in the process.
Yeah! yeah! yeah! Of course John. You are the only guy who can read the Bible. And The entire Reformed Church has never been able to read it. Keep on flogging the works based religion John. G'night
1 Corinthians 3:3-7 KJV 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
Presby wrote: John Does this mean at last, that you are going to move out of the title Calvinist - into the alternative Arminian?
Pres As I have explained many times I, like Spurgeon Ingleesi, do not take the title of any man to explain my beliefs, because I am a biblical man, unlike you who deliberately goes against scripture to toe the party line. That is all it is, after all. But I am made of stronger stuff, and can take the jeering and scornful comments.
However, it seems I am a rare one in that I am deeply concerned for the future of the "Biblical Doctrines of Grace", which are again falling by the wayside, despite a resurgence in the past 30 years. But the Calvinistic churches round these parts will be closed shortly, and that forever, except they begin gaining converts. And to do that, they better start behaving like Christians and obey the Lord. _____
born from above Thank you. Maybe you can explain why it is that the Jews in Acts 2:38 needed to be born again to believe and be saved, when Simeon (before pentecost) had no such need. He recognised the Christ Child without being born again. So how do you reconcile that with what you said?
I had thought you fellows had battled over the [URL=http://www.ihcc.org/resources/booklets/lordship-salvation-what-must-a-true-believer-believe]]]Lordship Salvation: What Must a True Believer, Believe[/URL].
Gil Rugh said or, wrote: It is the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit that makes the believer's life and way of life different. The Spirit's control over a life results in a lifestyle characterized by holiness thereby giving evidence of salvation.
In this section of Romans 8 three evidences of genuine faith are identified. One, belief - trusting Christ; two - behavior - being led by the Spirit; and three - openly being identified with Christ. . . . The warning given is that a life still given over to the control of the flesh and its satisfaction will result in damning corruption and ultimate destruction.
taken from the summary of the sermon, [URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=61308111800]]]Evidence of Salvation[/URL] and [URL=http://www.ihcc.org]]]Indian Hills Community Church[/URL] is Calvinistic in nature.
Grace alone wrote: "The main problem with many of today's Calvinists is that they think to be saved without doing anything, nor obeying the teaching of Jesus Christ." Can you give examples of ministries on sermonaudio? "The Pharisees were of a similar ilk in Jesus day. This is why many of the Reformed today are so heartless and unloving. Calvinists do not care either way" Examples of any Pastors or churches?
If you do not believe me, try attending a Reformed Church in England or Wales without a letter of reference.
I am talking not about the ministry, so much as the hearers. The word of God is preached, and promptly ignored.
Test it out. Go to any Reformed Church meeting, and afterwards over tea, observe the topic of conversation. Is it about the sermon, and how we are to change our lives? Nay, lad!
I know what I'm talking about because I've been attending Reformed Churches since 1980, and would not want to attend any other. But all the churches I have personally attended have been middle-class cliquey (if your face fits you're in, and if it doesn't you're not) type of church. This is basic fact, not a gripe. I would love to see the Reformed Church behaving like the Reformers of old.
"The Bible declares that we who are saved are predestinated to be conformed to the image of God's Son."
"The main problem with many of today's Calvinists is that they think to be saved without doing anything, nor obeying the teaching of Jesus Christ."
Can you give examples of ministries on sermonaudio?
"The Pharisees were of a similar ilk in Jesus day. This is why many of the Reformed today are so heartless and unloving. Calvinists do not care either way"
Examples of any Pastors or churches?
"merely religion without the power of the Spirit"
Does that sum up most of none Reformed evangelicalism today and even our own witness
[URL=http://adrianwarnock.com/2007/02/revival-a-calvinist-phenomenon/]]]Preface to C H Spurgeon[/URL]
Spurgeon mentions that there never was a revival without orthodox Christianity, any thumbing their nose at calvinism needs to read the above and study the following about the first and second great awakenings [URL=http://www.jonathan-edwards.org/]]]The Great awakenings[/URL]
God's grace in revival always has a testimony from History that is sound doctrine
[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVlL3gbubkQ]]]Paul Washer missionary How Revival Comes[/URL]
Michael Hranek wrote: John UK IMHO someone (wells and others) falsely accuse some of not having election as part of our faith. To which I might comment: You (those who scoff at Biblical Salvation) say to me, you have works and I have election. Show me your election without works coming from a change in heart and I will show you my election by the works that come joyfully out of the heart of one saved so undeservedly solely by the Grace of God.
Ah yes, quite so.
The Bible declares that we who are saved are predestinated to be conformed to the image of God's Son. The main problem with many of today's Calvinists is that they think to be saved without doing anything, nor obeying the teaching of Jesus Christ. The Pharisees were of a similar ilk in Jesus day. This is why many of the Reformed today are so heartless and unloving. And in my opinion that is a great shame, as it will ensue in the demise of Calvinism as we know it, to be replaced by a modern version of it, which is merely religion without the power of the Spirit, and it will bring no glory to God, rather it will bring a distaste in the mouths of those who unfortunately come across it.
And regretably, Calvinists do not care either way.
John UK wrote: 2. God has laid down his method: "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature." The Spirit anoints the preacher and the hearer. Well at least he used to.
John UK IMHO someone (wells and others) falsely accuse some of not having election as part of our faith.
To which I might comment:
You (those who scoff at Biblical Salvation) say to me, you have works and I have election. Show me your election without works coming from a change in heart and I will show you my election by the works that come joyfully out of the heart of one saved so undeservedly solely by the Grace of God.
wells wrote: Oh dear John; 1. So what you are teaching here is that " faith is an education process"
2. You don't obviously think that God and the Holy Spirit might have a part to play then.
3. I assume election is not in your religion!
1. I wasn't teaching anything, merely pointing out that you appear to be saying that you don't believe in Sunday Schools, catechising, preaching the word, teaching the word, explaining what the Bible means etc etc.
2. God has laid down his method: "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature." The Spirit anoints the preacher and the hearer. Well at least he used to.
Michael Hranek wrote: John UK Amen! and Amen! Romans 10 tells us clearly, 'How can they call on him in whom the have not belived, and how can they believe in Him whom they have not heard, and how can they hear without a preacher.' Jesus in John 6 tells us that everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Him.
Your text is proof positive of that.
God has chosen his method, and we may not alter it to suit any particular theological view.
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV
The man of God preaches the gospel, some folks believe it and respond, and God saves them. And there is no such thing as a man being saved who does not WANT to be saved. Every Christian testimony I have ever heard proves to me that there is a change of heart, a change of desire, a genuine love for the Christ who has done so much for them, a sorrow for sin, a desire to go the right way, a bending of the knee to the LORD, a submission to God.
Too many folks are trusting in their "election" (coz they had some goose bumps) rather than trusting in/obeying Jesus Christ the Lord.
John UK wrote: Ah, so you don't believe in Sunday Schools to teach children the basics, nor do you believe in catechising, nor for adults do you believe in sitting under a preaching ministry, nor would you recommend anyone to read the Bible lest they learn something, or the Lord might "teach" them some important spiritual truth. Man, you're the weird one!
Oh dear John; So what you are teaching here is that " faith is an education process"
You don't obviously think that God and the Holy Spirit might have a part to play then.
I assume election is not in your religion!
John UK wrote: Too many folks are trusting in their "election" (coz they had some goose bumps) rather than trusting in/obeying Jesus Christ the Lord.
GOD Elects John! - So we assume what you teach here is "don't trust God"
Typical Arminian practice raise the sinner up - and lower God down!!!
Michael I see you are defending the Arminian religion again.
You really must put those old popish ways fully behind you and worship the SOVEREIGN God.