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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | Fridays | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  12/16/2017
TUESDAY, AUG 23, 2011  |  69 comments
Who is going to church? Not who you think, study finds
In the last four decades, monthly (or more) participation in religious services dropped from 50 percent of moderately educated (high school and perhaps some college) whites to 37 percent, according to the study, ‚ÄúNo Money, No Honey, No Church: The Deinstitutionalization of Religious Life Among the White Working Class.‚ÄĚ Attendance by the least educated (high school dropouts) dropped from 38 percent to 23 percent, by sociologists Wilcox, of the University of Virginia and Andrew Cherlin of Johns Hopkins University found.

Church attendance by higher-income whites with at least a bachelor’s degree barely dipped, from 50 percent to 46 percent.

The figures represented those aged 25-44 and were gathered from two national surveys, the General Social Survey from the National Opinion Research Center, and the National Survey of Family Growth, which is conducted by the U.S. government's National Center for ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 69 user comment(s)
News Item8/28/11 5:06 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Find all comments by Michael Hranek
Ruth wrote:
Thank you Micheal, I've packed a bag and the town is opening the hall. I live in an area called the tri-state bordering VT and Mass. We are in a rural mountain area with lots of water ways. My son said their is only one road not closed and that was a couple of hours ago. We are waiting and watching, and the Lord is showing me, I'm not trusting Him, pray I will. I know how to pray for the weaker vessels and the men from my vantage point. The Lord grant us all our chief end to glorify Him.
Ruth,
Thanks for the update.
Again we are in prayer.

That area of NY is quite scenic in places. I've been up I-88 and I-87 crossing over into Vermont with a neighor to pick up a load of 40,000 pounds of chocolatge and also up to Albany from Binghamton going across I-90 into Boston, Mass.

I'm not sure of your convictions regarding music so if I miss it and suggest something outside of your convictions please forgive me. There is a song I like, You Where There that I hope would be an encouragement to you. I had to change the link as I was uncomfortable with the video ciips used the first time I posted.

69

News Item8/28/11 4:04 PM
Ruth  Find all comments by Ruth
Thank you Micheal, I've packed a bag and the town is opening the hall. I live in an area called the tri-state bordering VT and Mass. We are in a rural mountain area with lots of water ways. My son said their is only one road not closed and that was a couple of hours ago. We are waiting and watching, and the Lord is showing me, I'm not trusting Him, pray I will. I know how to pray for the weaker vessels and the men from my vantage point. The Lord grant us all our chief end to glorify Him.
68

News Item8/28/11 3:46 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
"__", you really do need to read about Wycliffe! At least read the first article in Series Title: The History of the English Bible.

Otherwise we would just have ignorant anti-Christian priests reading and falsely interpreting the Bible, if it wasn't for the printing press! God bless Gutenberg!

Oh, John U.K., and Ruth, naturally we should support Israel! Does God Have a Future for Israel? A Study of Romans 11, Ah, too many of you folks don't realize that Israel & the Church are Different People, and if you did, then you would more easily resolve the issue of What do you do with a future National Israel in the Bible?.

Yes, John U.K., as the Lord's Day ends for you and as it advances for Ruth, I hope it will be a satisfactory one for both of you. (Sounds like you're too close to a river, Ruth, may the Lord protect you). God willing I hope to attend an evening service at Indian Hills Community Church, we have an excellent visiting pastor giving the sermons today.

67

News Item8/28/11 3:05 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Contact via emailFind all comments by Michael Hranek
Ruth wrote:
Just an aside, the bridge next to my house just collapsed. The town road crew got my neighbors and young children out they said. I heard the bridge and road go down, it all happened so fast. The water is rising fast, and the center of the storm is due at 6 PM. Men folk aren't worried. I'm a little scared. Prayers for those in NY close to water appreciated.
Ruth
Just read your post. What area of NY do you live in? I've asked my wife and daughter to pray with me for you and I am sure others here on SermonAudio will as well.

That said I am fairly sure that one of the broadcasters in NJ, Covenant Baptist Church in Lumberton was very much in danger of flooding, and they and others churches as well also need our prayers.

66

News Item8/28/11 2:54 PM
Ruth  Find all comments by Ruth
Just an aside, the bridge next to my house just collapsed. The town road crew got my neighbors and young children out they said. I heard the bridge and road go down, it all happened so fast. The water is rising fast, and the center of the storm is due at 6 PM. Men folk aren't worried. I'm a little scared. Prayers for those in NY close to water appreciated.
65

News Item8/28/11 2:38 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Ruth
1. Eh?

2. Whatever texts you meant when you wrote, "However, unless you've rethought some of your former views, I know we still have some differences in the application of these Scriptures."

3. So how does this work out in reality?

4. Agreed!

5. "God is Good" is the best and most important revelatory understanding of God's character I have had since my conversion. And we are in full agreement on this simple statement, "God is Good!"

64

News Item8/28/11 2:24 PM
Ruth  Find all comments by Ruth
John UK wrote:
1. I'm still trying to work out if there is a difference between my beliefs and the beliefs of covenanters, Ruth. Have you spotted any thus far?...
1. No John, but I have noted that most men are better with words, so I try not to miss something I need to understand in order to keep up in the Scriptural argument presented.
2.You quoted 3 texts, to which are you referring?
3. revisit Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. kingdom(s)bot places. In Matthew 25:31-46 The Lord addresses the moral persons of nations as individual nations; yet their will be men at the Judgment seat accounting for their own response in their place calling and station.
4.I need no man to teach me in one sense if I have the unction of the Spirit and I do by grace, yet I need Pastors and teachers as Christ's under shepherds also as it is written in Ephes.4
God is Good John, I know we agree on that!
63

News Item8/28/11 12:26 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Ruth wrote:
John, so far we agree, I don't believe I have said anything contrary to what you just stated. However, unless you've rethought some of your former views, I know we still have some differences in the application of these Scriptures.
1. I'm still trying to work out if there is a difference between my beliefs and the beliefs of covenanters, Ruth. Have you spotted any thus far? (Still restricting to the "covenant" itself, not political implications.)

2. What differences do we have in regard to the application of said scriptures?

3. Yes, there is a major distinction between the Israel of God and Israel the nation. How do you see the fulfilment of the "kingdoms of this world becoming the kingdom of the Lord and of his Christ?"

4. By all means read the words of men, but the best teacher is the Holy Ghost who taught those men also. However, I learnt today in my study that God calls certain men to teach and preach, giving them gifts and insights to enable them to do so, while encouraging all of us to learn from his word with the illumination of the Spirit, in a general sort of way.

62

News Item8/28/11 12:06 PM
Ruth  Find all comments by Ruth
John UK wrote:
So God's covenant of grace is "a promise" to Abraham and his seed.
And we are "children of promise" to match, as in Galatians 4:28, spiritually descendents of Abraham.
John, so far we agree, I don't believe I
have said anything contrary to what you just stated. However, unless you've rethought some of your former views, I know we still have some differences in the application of these Scriptures. This is where, I believe the Ministry is meant to come in. We agree, we have some restraints here, regarding teacher. That is why I rely so heavily on the teachers in antiquarian books 'old paths' Canticles 1:8; . See Jeremiah 6:2-4 and consider.

I am still making a distinction between the Israel of God spiritual and the land of Judah temporal, because I believe all Israel 'spiritual' shall be saved. And the kingdom's' of this world, will become the Kingdom's' of our Lord and of His Christ. Do you see?

61

News Item8/28/11 10:51 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Ruth wrote:
Good Sabbath John,
Your text from Hebrews, where the apostle Paul addresses all Christians, for all time, was especially addressed to Jewish NT saints, Yes? He is giving a reference to them to prove that Christ is the fulfillment of Jeremiah's prophesy Jer.31:33
Good Sabbath indeed, Ruth.

Yes, I affirm that.

Now regarding covenants, I see two big ones, old and new, but both the same:

Genesis 17:7-8 KJV
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee [Abraham] and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

and

Galatians 3:28-29 KJV
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

So God's covenant of grace is "a promise" to Abraham and his seed.

And we are "children of promise" to match, as in Galatians 4:28, spiritually descendents of Abraham.

60

News Item8/28/11 10:27 AM
Ruth  Find all comments by Ruth
John UK wrote:
Hi Ruth
Is this the covenant to which you refer:
Hebrews 10:12-17 KJV
Good Sabbath John,
Your text from Hebrews, where the apostle Paul addresses all Christians, for all time, was especially addressed to Jewish NT saints, Yes? He is giving a reference to them to prove that Christ is the fulfillment of Jeremiah's prophesy Jer.31:33

Romans 11:28-30 "As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.('irrevocable' and we know God never fails to keep His part) For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:"
This and many other Scriptures indicates to me, God relates to His Church, which is One (Ephesians, the Epistle) through covenants and they respond to Him by that grace and mercy He has extended to them in the Covenant of Grace; which had been foreshadowed in all the other OT covenants that preceded their fulfillment in Christ. John, it is only the doctrines that are specifically removed by apostolic teaching in the NT that are not continuous for all time. Though now, in the light of the NT, these doctrines are better understood in all thei

59

News Item8/28/11 9:35 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Ruth wrote:
No one can keep covenant outside the Covenant of Grace; no true Covenanter ever did, nor ever will.
Hi Ruth

Is this the covenant to which you refer:

Hebrews 10:12-17 KJV
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

I don't know anything about "covenanters", which I why I ask. I am not considering the political implications but simply the biblical position on the new covenant which, from these verses, appears to be surely irrevocable.

Thank you.

58

News Item8/28/11 7:30 AM
Ruth  Find all comments by Ruth
Rax wrote:
1. I commend you on your expert sarcastic tone....
Rax
I considered before the Lord you retort in the night watches.
1. I believe it was more skepticism then intended sarcasm, if sarcasm there in part, it is at times appropriate. Were you not doing the same to 'commending my expert sarcastic tone', when you can't hear my tone. Weren't you were actually challenging me to consider to whom I was speaking? I don't know to whom I am speaking.
2. I said 'true Scottish Presbyterians' emphasis 'true' not perfect, faithful not sinless. Mr. Gillespie and Durham clearly held what you call 'a romantic historic position'. It was pointed out on the Puritan Board recently that it was the early church's eschatalogical position.
3. I can prove my heritage both by blood and faith. You don't fear for your body, I have been tempted to it, but by different opposing factors then you mention, outside the covenants' wall of protection. My fear of Roman Anglicanism is for my soul related to a broken covenant.
4. Joshua 24; Joshua as a prophetic type of Christ said he and his house would serve the Lord. No one can keep covenant outside the Covenant of Grace;
no true Covenanter ever did, nor ever will.
57

News Item8/27/11 4:58 PM
__  
Jim Lincoln wrote:
My theology is totally based on the Protestant Reformation, as it is totally based on the Bible, you know that which makes the Romish Church an anathema to God, "--," you really should read, "Only Scripture," "Only Christ," "Only Grace," "Only Faith," and "To God Alone Be Glory", a great summary of these principles.
Apparently this 1520-era Salvation definition had absolutely no meaning before the cutting-edge movable-type printing press technology now flooding merchants with billions of everyday low price Bibles -- most with an accumulation of dust so thick you can write "Damnation" on them.
56

News Item8/27/11 4:23 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Rax, very good point, the covenant that counts is the one we have with Christ, for a good Baptist definition of what a covenant is, q.v., Will Jesus Have the Scars in His Hands Forever? and Why Is It Important to Understand What a Covenant Is?.

Apparently this 1913 definition of Covenant in

Webster's Dictionary wrote:
2. (Eccl. Hist.) An agreement made by the Scottish Parliament in 1638, and by the English Parliament in 1643, to preserve the reformed religion in Scotland, and to extirpate popery and prelacy; -- usually called the "Solemn League and Covenant."
--has absolutely no meaning in either Scotland or England.

While confessions of faith can focus one's mind, they are never a substitute for the Bible.

My theology is totally based on the Protestant Reformation, as it is totally based on the Bible, you know that which makes the Romish Church an anathema to God, "--," you really should read, "Only Scripture," "Only Christ," "Only Grace," "Only Faith," and "To God Alone Be Glory", a great summary of these principles as expressed at a Bible Church in Mississippi, several years

55

News Item8/27/11 2:33 PM
Rax  Find all comments by Rax
Ruth wrote:
1. That's nice;

2. I know of no true Scottish Presbyterian that thinks the Covenants are a mute point.

3. You are Scottish, good for you; that is if you are the faithful to the Covenants and if not you will answer to God and to no other.

1. I commend you on your expert sarcastic tone.

2. Really! How about the Church of Scotland? That Liberal entity would soon prove you wrong. I doubt whether they can acquaint themselves with the Westminster confession. Is your position on "Covenanting Presbyterian" a romantic historic one?

3. Well Ruth, I can prove my nationality by birth and ancestry. As for the old covenanter history - you may be surprised to find that the Anglican/Episcopalian church are no longer hanging us for our differences today.

As for my covenant - It is called the Covenant of Grace!

________________

Mike wrote:
God is a Scot? I thought he was an Englishman
I hear it is getting pretty windy up at your end.
54

News Item8/27/11 2:00 PM
Ruth  Find all comments by Ruth
Mike wrote:
God is a Scot? I thought he was an Englishman.
The God of the Scripture relates to His people through the means of Covenants, that he initiates with men.

Numbers 23:18-19
"And he took up his parable, and said, Rise up, Balak, and hear; hearken unto me, thou son of Zippor: God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

53

News Item8/27/11 1:44 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
God is a Scot? I thought he was an Englishman.
52

News Item8/27/11 1:35 PM
Ruth  Find all comments by Ruth
Rax wrote:
No I am a Scottish Presbyterian where the covenanters fought and died for this type of church government.
The reason I pointed out the reference to Calvin was to show that the Reformers were not all totally against episcopacy.
That's nice; as you mention, some of the earlier Reformers were still reforming. Phil.3:16 "Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing." But later in history our Covenants were clearly against Paganism, Popery, Prelacy, Erastianism, Independency, Sectarianism, and Malignancy. I know of no true Scottish Presbyterian that thinks the Covenants are a mute point. You are Scottish, good for you; that is if you are the faithful to the Covenants and if not you will answer to God and to no other.
51

News Item8/27/11 12:16 PM
Rax  Find all comments by Rax
Ruth wrote:
You are a Prelate and I a Presbyterian.
No I am a Scottish Presbyterian where the covenanters fought and died for this type of church government.
The reason I pointed out the reference to Calvin was to show that the Reformers were not all totally against episcopacy.
50
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