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Breaking News All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  9/29/2020
Choice News TUESDAY, MAR 23, 2010  |  38 comments
Paisley makes farewell speech in House of Commons
FORMER DUP first minister and DUP leader, the Rev Ian Paisley made his farewell House of Commons speech yesterday as Westminster pressed ahead with devolving policing and justice powers to Stormont.

As the Assembly and House of Commons approved orders to facilitate the creation of a Department of Justice within the Northern Executive on April 12th Dr Paisley spoke of his hopes for a time when the troubles could be “forgotten”.

Dr Paisley in his 11-minute valedictory described the people of Northern Ireland as “loving and caring” and said the North was “moving in the right direction”. ...


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
www.irishtimes.com

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 38 user comment(s)
News Item4/6/10 4:59 PM
June  Find all comments by June
Nota Bene, You're sounding more and more like a politician! As I have already stated:The GOSPEL MINISTER has avowed to uphold God's laws at all times and to stand for all that Christ is for and all that He is against.

The politician . . the MP in the case of Ian Paisley, must uphold the law of the land, as he has taken an oath to do so.

Ian Paisley has said so himself:

'The office of First Minister and the Deputy First Minister is totally committed to promoting equality of human rights, and the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister are completely opposed to any form of discrimination or harassment”

Article:
'Paisley tells Stormont: 'My boy may end up working on gay legislation'.
The Daily Mail (London, England)
Jun 12, 2007
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Paisley+tells+Stormont:+%27My+boy+may+end+up+working+on+gay...-a0164862484

Paisley said this in the context of Equality Legislation that grants monies to the sodomite cause! How can such a statement be reconciled to His Stand for CHRIST? He is halting between two opinions! I Kings 18:21
He has never retracted this remark made in connection with providing monies for the sodomite cause, unarguably not the CAUSE OF CHRIST!
"Shouldest thou help the ungodly . . "
II Chron. 19:2
P.S. I do not vote!

38

News Item4/6/10 3:55 PM
Nota Bene  Find all comments by Nota Bene
June wrote:
you are intending to resist the implementation of any of the laws supporting homosexual behaviour.
Your primary obligation is to uphold the Law of God"
June. (et al)
Since you are living in a "Democracy" YOU have the same responsibility as the Christian politician has.

Therefore your allegation puts you in the same position. Voting in the government assembly of your country means, some say yes - some no. Being a citizen of your country YOUR representatives will have come to the same legislation decision, ergo the decision is MADE FOR YOU TOO! By the same token of majority vote win. YOUR participation in the democratic process of your country puts you in the same agreement as your politicians that of majority rules.
By your citizenship you accept the legislation of your nation and political representation method.

NB Daniel in his prayers uses "WE" of Israel. Dan 9:5 "We have sinned"

"5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour."

37

News Item4/6/10 1:19 PM
June  Find all comments by June
Paul . . A glaring example of the accountability to the brethren which Paisley and his devotees think him above is revealed in a letter from Revs. Barry Galbraith (Moderator) & Philip Murphy (Acting Clerk) of the South. Presbytery of the Ref. Pres. Church to the First Minister, the Rt Hon. Dr. I. Paisley on Sept. 4, 2007, to which they received no answer:

Dear Dr Paisley,
“Since your acceptance of the office of First Minister of Northern Ireland, we have not yet heard of any indication that, as one who has long professed the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, you are intending to resist the implementation of any of the laws supporting homosexual behaviour.
Your primary obligation is to uphold the Law of God as the standard of right and wrong in the public domain.
To participate in implementing legislation that promotes sin is to participate in rebellion against the Lord Jesus Christ. The fact that the higher authorities in Westminster or Brussels may require it is no justification; 'Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye' (Acts 4:19); 'we ought to obey God rather than men' (Acts 5:29). Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego did not bow down to the golden image despite the fact that the human law requiring it was crystal clear (Dan.3:16

36

News Item4/6/10 11:31 AM
Nota Bene  Find all comments by Nota Bene
Paul Forrest wrote:
We know very well that our brother Ian has prayed and preached in addition to his political duties. That's all very well, but his gospel ministry has to suffer. Consider that he was a member of parliament, a member of the European 'Parliament', the leader of a political party, the moderator of his denomination, involved in various organisations (at one time, the leader in a semi-paramilitary group), the editor of a magazine, and contributor to other magazines. Did I mention that he was also the pastor of a large congregation?
His level of activity can hardly be matched. But, paradoxically, therein lies the problem. There are only so many hours in the day. The vast amount of time he spent carrying out political duties meant that there was little time left for what was supposed to be his chief role--that of pastor.
Was God's purpose or work prevented, hampered, restricted or forestalled by the additional responsibilities Paisley took on?

Was God's providence NOT in evidence, in the parts of Paisley's life which were not specifically within church walls?

Is God sovereign in all of the life of His servant - or only in ecclesiastical duty?

35

News Item4/6/10 6:43 AM
Paul Forrest | Liverpool, Great Britain  Protected NameFind all comments by Paul Forrest
The issue of identities could be solved easily--by people using their real names, and not hiding behind pseudonyms.

It is the Lord's business to judge the actions of those outside the church, but he asks us to deal with problems inside.

To use this 'touch not mine anointed' scripture is not a reasonable application of the principle. None of us are trying to harm our brother. If he is to be entreated, we must be allowed to say these things, without fear of unreasonable defences.

Are all pastors now exempt from accountability from the brethren? J I Packer and Al Mohler will be delighted that we won't be challenging them any more! Paul withstood Peter--a 'prophet', if you like--to the face.

The reason for the barricade around Paisley is an old one: it is the phenomenon of the 'Paisleyite'. To them, he is beyond criticism. The symptoms of being in this fan club include hanging pictures of the man on the living room wall, and insisting that he is eulogised by portraying his life in the stained glass windows of the Jubilee Complex. (If that's an urban myth, please let us know.)

34

News Item4/6/10 3:08 AM
Oxygen of Publicity  Find all comments by Oxygen of Publicity
Son of Inspector Foyle wrote:
Just who is "Well fare" ? ...
Well that then leaves just the other son Kyle, better known as Pastor Kyle Paisley. who is the one I submit has the only motive and reason to come to his fathers defense. So now the question remains . . why the son of a preacher man chooses to don the moniker WELL FARE and then ask the posters here to connect Kyle Paisley. HMMMMM
Do you have any evidence to support that allegation?
Or is it all just circumstantial?
Kyle Paisley wrote:
Only one or two Scriptures are needed to answer those who criticise Ian Paisley for the deal done with with Sinn Fein, and to answer those who have out of ignorance, or deliberately,or for some old personal grudge, misrepresented him since he took the office of First Minister. The Bible says, 'Touch not mine anointed, do my prophets no harm.' Every faithful minister of the Gospel is a prophet i.e. a teller forth of the Truth. To 'touch' a prophet is a serious thing, and something that other 'prophets' need to remember, as well as ordinary individuals (no prophet is exempt from obedience to this command. The Bible also says that 'every idle word' that men speak that they will 'give account' for it on 'the day of judgment.'
33

News Item4/5/10 11:06 PM
Son of Inspector Foyle  Find all comments by Son of Inspector Foyle
Just who is "Well fare" ? and just why does he ask of those who post here to contact pastor Kyle Paisley ? Well let us attempt to answer these questions. First since not many if any are coming to help with the Sr. Paisley's issues, and that is understandable. Well now, there are associates and then there are family members. One can deduce that associates are not willing to be of any help and the reason is obvious.........they are in agreement that "Pastor Paisley"
should NEVER have gone into politics
so we may eliminate them as possibilities ....that then leaves Paisley's 2 sons to be considered.
Well Ian Paisley, Jr. is in politics as well, and has had NO INTEREST in the Pastoral end of his Fathers calling, otherwise he too would be a minister, eh...
Well that then leaves just the other son Kyle, better known as Pastor Kyle Paisley. who is the one I submit has the only motive and reason to come to his fathers defense. So now the question remains . . why the son of a preacher man chooses to don the moniker WELL FARE and then ask the posters here to connect Kyle Paisley. HMMMMM
32

News Item4/5/10 2:12 PM
well fare  Find all comments by well fare
Paul Forrest wrote:
pastor of a large congregation?
The problem Paul is that none of the very 'large congregation'have made any complaint and many of them profess their Salvation through Ian Paisley as the preaching instrument. I didn't hear any Free Presbyterian Ministers complaining until recent times, never
about his workload and skirting any Pastoral issues, nor complaining about the quality of his preaching.

How does he differ from some other Reformed ministers...you usually see them on a Sunday in the pulpit and the midweek bible study. No more.

It is easy to be a critic, but may I ask why those who are his friends seem to have taken little trouble to contact him? If you want to critique his politics that is one thing, but I prefer some evidence to show his preaching ministry has suffered or is suffering?

The sad thing is he is being treat as though he is some apostate by some, or others say he has lost the plot. What do the elders of Martyrs Memorial have to say about that? Or members of that church? Why not ask Kyle Paisley and he might get some facts, he can be contacted via sermonaudio.

Let brotherly love continue..especially in our posts on a public website.

God bless your own labours to His Glory!

31

News Item4/5/10 6:25 AM
Paul Forrest | Liverpool, Great Britain  Protected NameFind all comments by Paul Forrest
We know very well that our brother Ian has prayed and preached in addition to his political duties. That's all very well, but his gospel ministry has to suffer. Consider that he was a member of parliament, a member of the European 'Parliament', the leader of a political party, the moderator of his denomination, involved in various organisations (at one time, the leader in a semi-paramilitary group), the editor of a magazine, and contributor to other magazines. Did I mention that he was also the pastor of a large congregation?

His level of activity can hardly be matched. But, paradoxically, therein lies the problem. There are only so many hours in the day. The vast amount of time he spent carrying out political duties meant that there was little time left for what was supposed to be his chief role--that of pastor.

The NT preachers of the gospel were so concerned for the flock over which the holy ghost had placed them, that they even delegated waiting on tables to others so that they could give themselves wholly to prayer and the gospel! And the responsibility they handed over was tiny in comparison to what Paisley has been involved in down the years.

30

News Item4/4/10 5:15 PM
June  Find all comments by June
Nota Bene,
Let's be clear . .
I never said that a Christian could not be involved in community work of any kind.

I did say the plain teaching of Scriptures prohibits the GOSPEL MINISTER from holding political office, and I stand by that.

The GOSPEL MINISTER has avowed to uphold God's laws at all times and to stand for all that Christ is for and all that He is against.

The politician . . the MP in the case of Ian Paisley, must uphold the law of the land, as he has taken an oath to do so.

Ian Paisley has said so himself:

'The office of First Minister and the Deputy First Minister is totally committed to promoting equality of human rights, and the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister are completely opposed to any form of discrimination or harassment”

Article:
'Paisley tells Stormont: 'My boy may end up working on gay legislation'.
The Daily Mail (London, England)
Jun 12, 2007
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Paisley+tells+Stormont:+%27My+boy+may+end+up+working+on+gay...-a0164862484

Paisley said this in the context of Equality Legislation that grants monies to the sodomite cause! How can such a statement be reconciled to His Stand for CHRIST? He is halting between two opinions! I Kings 18:21

29

News Item4/4/10 4:53 PM
Nota Bene  Find all comments by Nota Bene
June wrote:
A) I repeat, PLAINLY SPEAKING . . God's Word prohibits GOSPEL MINISTERS from holding public office.

B) I meant II Tim. 2:4

A) Already dealt with and rejected this below!

B) First the battle for the soldier is spiritual. Thus everywhere!
Second this battle is not against flesh and blood but spiritual forces of darkness.

Again this does not preclude the witness whether in - a factory - an office - a field - a garage - a house - a barn - OR ANY CIVIL COMMUNITY WORK!!!

The job of a politician is just a job, like plumber, electrician, accountant and candle stick maker. BUT there is nothing in Scripture that prevents the Christian from being involved in community work of any kind.

Lets trust in Jesus who declared .....
"I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil"

If GOD protects you then why fear a few politicians???

June, your arguement here appears to be trying to establish that there are certain areas of community into which the Christian cannot go???
By this means you are barring God from these areas.

WCF "It is lawful for Christians to accept and execute the office of a magistrate when called thereunto"
Prov 8:15-16; Rom 13:1-2,4; 1Tim 2:2.

28

News Item4/4/10 3:03 PM
June  Find all comments by June
I repeat, PLAINLY SPEAKING . . God's Word prohibits GOSPEL MINISTERS from holding public office.

I cited II Tim. 6:4 in error . . I meant II Tim. 2:4

Elder J. Dale Lewis:
“It is clear that as men of God, the man of God cannot assume the office of the politician for reasons of his consecration to his call. The politicians are sent & speak for the people while the man of God is sent by Christ & speaks to the people. The politician is forbidden to speak freely for God & speaks only in behalf of the people he represents. The man of God, on the other hand, is required to speak only of the things of God to the people the Lord has sent to him.

"No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier." 2nd Timothy 2:4.

The politician carries the desires & the concerns of his constituents while the preacher carries the word & commands of the Lord. The politician must speak the interest of his constituents. The man of God is required by the Holy Ghost to speak the interest & desires of no one but the one that sent him; no not even his own interests & opinions. "Jesus saith unto them, my meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work." John 4:34; 5:30; 6:38; not the will of the people"

27

News Item4/4/10 2:28 PM
Nota Bene  Find all comments by Nota Bene
June wrote:
1) God has plainly set forth his requirements for Gospel Ministers in His Word.

2) In Acts 6:4 and II Tim. 6:4 , He relegates their peculiar work to that which ministers to the souls of men. They are to be “separated unto the Gospel”

3) (Rom. 1:1)

4) Christ, the exemplar preacher, went about “teaching and preaching” (Matt. 4:23; Matt. 9:35); “He taught daily in the temple” (Luke 19:47) and the doctrine.......... did not meddle in politics

1) Bible does not exclude the preacher from civil community works.

2) = Acts 6:4 merely says that the preacher should keep up a life of prayer and preaching. Paisley did that.

= II Tim 6:4 - There is no sixth chapter in 2Tim.?

3) Rom 1:1 - Paul again merely states that he is separated unto the Gospel. This statement does not preclude him or anyone else from other tasks in the community.

4) As for comparing Christ and His short period in the Jewish community with a modern preacher living his whole life in a democracy; - NOT relevant! Since Christ lived under Roman military rule. And was an ITINERANT preacher.

YOU said.
"PLAINLY SPEAKING . . God's Word prohibits GOSPEL MINISTERS from holding public office."

= Not True!!!

EG:: See Prov 8:15,16 and Romans 13.

26

News Item4/4/10 12:38 PM
June  Find all comments by June
PLAINLY SPEAKING . . God's Word prohibits GOSPEL MINISTERS from holding public office.

As the witness borne by 'Concerned Free Presbyterians' went on to say:

“To say that Dr. Paisley was acting as First Minister and not as Moderator, or that he had no choice if he wished to retain the office and be a force for good – is avoidance and denial. This issue could not be clearer. The simple alternative to doing what is patently wrong is not to do it.”
“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.” James 4:17

To be party to the establishment that is compelled to grant monies to a particular class of sinners, i.e. homosexuals/sodomites, which God calls an abomination, so they can shamefully showcase their wickedness down main street in what they call a 'Gay Parade', is to sanction sin and licentiousness.

To preach against sin on Sunday and legislate it on Monday is effectively “halting between two opinions”. (1 Kings 18:21)

As Martyn McGeown has said, Ian Paisley has left God's Word to serve Parliamentary Tables!
http://www.cprf.co.uk/articles/leavingtheWord.htm

25

News Item4/4/10 11:49 AM
Nota Bene  Find all comments by Nota Bene
June wrote:
Preacher . . Politician . . a Conflict of Interest:
I see you have no answer to the points I raised. All you have done is reiterated the same old "half-truths information" relating to government policies which come from Stormont and ALL other western governments about the abomination.

As has been stated before the Westminster Government initiated and ordered the funding of homosexual interests; - and this is not the fault of Paisley nor any other one person.

We all know that politics in ALL western nations is anti-Biblical and anti-Christian, so is 96 per cent of the population of these nations. So common sense tells you that the legislation brought about by anti-Christian reprobates, who are in the majority in ALL western nations, is going to be - (Yes you've got it) - anti-Christian.

Prov 29:2 When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.

Prov 19:21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.
AND
21:30 There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the LORD

24

News Item4/3/10 7:42 PM
June  Find all comments by June
Preacher . . Politician . . a Conflict of Interest:

A case in point that illustrates that conflict arose during the brief tenure of Mr. Paisley as First Minister of N.I. in 2007 over sodomy funding, while he was also Moderator of the FPC, which resulted in a split within his own denomination.

This witness born by the 'Concerned Free Presbyterians' website at that time (spring/summer of 2007) makes the case:

Sponsorship of Sodomy
“We are without doubt when it comes to what the Bible has to say about homosexuality. We take exception to the stance recently adopted on it by the Presbyterian Church in Ireland. And yet we are in the position where the Moderator of our church presides over an office which grants huge sums to promote the “rights” of people whose behaviour God describes as an abomination.
Unfortunately this matter has already brought the testimony of our church on this subject into disrepute. The recent Christian Institute court case against "equality" legislation was sponsored by our church to the tune of thousands of pounds, only to find that the Gay lobby are being defended in the courts by lawyers paid for by the OFMDFM. The Free Presbyterian Church is funding a court case against their own Moderator.”

23

News Item4/3/10 4:08 PM
Nota Bene  Find all comments by Nota Bene
June wrote:
God's sovereignty (Rom. 13) does not absolve a man of his individual responsibility to keep the commandments of God or to act in accordance with His will as revealed in His Word.
June
I just have to ask. At what point and how can man disobey God's sovereignty?
Or which commandment is not covered by God's sovereignty?

Western governments impugn and contravene Holy Scripture all the time! And have for centuries. After all they are only human and invariably reprobate unbelievers.

But This is also the case in all society.

Therefore are you suggesting Christians should remove themselves from nations/societies which transgress Holy Law?

Jesus prayed
"I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil."

Now thats practical sovereignty.

WCF 23.2 "It is lawful for Christians to accept and execute the office of a magistrate when called thereunto; in the managing whereof, as they ought especially to maintain piety, justice, and peace, according to the wholesome laws of each commonwealth, so, for that end, they may lawfully, now under the New Testament, wage war upon just and necessary occasion."

Prov 8:15-16 Rom 13:1-2,4 2 Sam 23:3 Psa 2:10-12 1Tim 2:2......etc

22

News Item4/3/10 12:34 PM
June  Find all comments by June
God's sovereignty (Rom. 13) does not absolve a man of his individual responsibility to keep the commandments of God or to act in accordance with His will as revealed in His Word. For a Christian and/or Gospel Minister to act contrary to God's will is to tempt God or to sin presumptuously. Ian Paisley chose to enter politics & share power with SF/IRA.

God has plainly set forth his requirements for Gospel Ministers in His Word. In Acts 6:4 and II Tim. 6:4 , He relegates their peculiar work to that which ministers to the souls of men. They are to be “separated unto the Gospel” (Rom. 1:1). Christ, the exemplar preacher, went about “teaching and preaching” (Matt. 4:23; Matt. 9:35); “He taught daily in the temple” (Luke 19:47) and the doctrine He taught was not His own, but His Father's. (John 7:16-17) Christ went about doing “His Father's business” (Luke 2:49), and did not meddle in politics. Those who are called to the ministry of God's Word are to do likewise. (Acts 5:42)

It is the “gospel of peace” that the Gospel Minister's trumpet is to sound . . and it is to make a certain sound. ( 1 Cor. 14:7-8) He is God's man . . God's representative . . God's ambassador sent to proclaim the Word of reconciliation (II Cor. 5:17-21) to call sinners to repentance and faith

21

News Item4/3/10 11:19 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
Nota Bene wrote:
1. Yes June. We can read.
2. You (and the Pastor) are still NOT dealing with nor receiving Romans Ch. 13.
Either God is in sovereign charge - or there are bits of quote "authority" unquote, which are independant of God. Which is it to be?
Also are you implying that the god of mammon is the provider referred to in Romans 13? Does *YOUR* Bible read; " For there is no power but of **Mammon**: the powers that be are ordained of **Mammon.**" ??
Yes Nota, do what the PM says is good, and you will be praised of the same.
20

News Item4/3/10 11:18 AM
Paul Forrest | Liverpool, Great Britain  Protected NameFind all comments by Paul Forrest
Does everyone know that Paisley and his new IRA friend were presented with golden calves? It seems the irony was lost on most people.
19
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