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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  9/15/2019
MONDAY, OCT 12, 2009  |  80 comments
Pope canonises five new saints
Among the pilgrims packing St Peter's Basilica was Hawaii resident Audrey Toguchi, an 80-year-old retired teacher whose recovery from lung cancer a decade ago was called miraculous by the Vatican.

She had prayed to Belgium-born Jozef De Veuster, more commonly known as Father Damien, who himself died from leprosy in 1889 after contracting the disease while working with leprosy patients who were living in isolation on Molokai island.


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
www.telegraph.co.uk

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 80 user comment(s)
News Item11/2/09 2:26 PM
jKL  Find all comments by jKL
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert) wrote:
But a person can reject Jesus after receiving Him as well.
Sounds as though Bert wants more power to his elbow than Scripture allows.
Is this Bertolatry???

Bert doesn't believe
Phil 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

"The modern Roman Catholic church clearly embraces a heretical form of Semi-Pelagianism which affirms that man has a need for God's grace (for man is too weak to help himself), but man by his own free will is able to decide whether he wants God's grace. Whereas Pelagius taught that salvation is totally man's own doing, and Augustine taught that salvation is totally from God, Semi-Pelagianism teaches that salvation is a combination of the efforts of both man and God. According to RCC Semi-Pelagianism, salvation is accomplished when man decides to co-operate with God and accepts the grace God offers him. and also must maintain his own just standing before God by merit and good works. This is often viewed as a synergistic concept of salvation. Whereas Reformed Protestants also affirm the necessity of good works, yet they are the inevitable result of salvation, not the cause of it."
(Monergism.com)

80

News Item10/28/09 12:03 AM
Faithful Remnant  Find all comments by Faithful Remnant
Agree with you, Bert. Repentance is more than just "I'm sorry," yet this seems to be the popular notion today. However, the Apostles taught people to repent and prove their repentance by their works(Acts 26:20).
79

News Item10/27/09 7:25 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert) wrote:
I think that we have different definitions for the word "repent", John. When a person repents, s/he feels sorry for having done. This may or may not bring about a change of lifestyle. If it is the lifestyle that is causeing the person to sin, then a change of lifestyle would definately be in their best interest but it is not an automatic result of repentance.
I do believe that Judas was repentant. He realized that what he did was wrong and he committed suicide (according to Matthew) as a result.
Ah, "the wages of sin is death, but the GIFT of GOD is ETERNAL LIFE through JESUS CHRIST our LORD."
Very true. But a person can reject Jesus after receiving Him as well.
Bert, how do you imagine a person who does not believe in the existence of God will come to 'repent' and change his mind about that. [p.s. I hope I have the definition right, as I was taught years ago that the two greek words joined together which we translate 'repent' are 'change' and 'mind', thus repentance is a change of mind.]

Can he be intellectually convinced? No.

Can he be convinced by reading the Bible? No.

Can he be convinced by actually meeting God? Not necessarily.

Can he be convinced by God? Oh yes!

Good night.

78

News Item10/27/09 1:51 PM
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)  Find all comments by DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)
I think that we have different definitions for the word "repent", John. When a person repents, s/he feels sorry for having done. This may or may not bring about a change of lifestyle. If it is the lifestyle that is causeing the person to sin, then a change of lifestyle would definately be in their best interest but it is not an automatic result of repentance.

I do believe that Judas was repentant. He realized that what he did was wrong and he committed suicide (according to Matthew) as a result.

Ah, "the wages of sin is death, but the GIFT of GOD is ETERNAL LIFE through JESUS CHRIST our LORD."

Very true. But a person can reject Jesus after receiving Him as well.

77

News Item10/27/09 12:25 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert) wrote:
Hi John,
"God now commandeth all men everywhere to repent."
Does everyone repent? No, they do not. This is an example of God telling us what we need to do to obtain Salvation but He is leaving it completely in our hands as to whether we do what He tells us to or not.
To repent, Bert, is a 'change of mind' which results in a 'change of lifestyle'. But if you imagine you maintain a good 'repentance' throughout your life, you need to think more carefully. Did you not observe the characters in the Bible whom God chose unto salvation? Were they repentant? Yes. All are repentant. What of those who were impenitent, like Judas? Was he repentant? No. And he was lost. What of David the adulterer? Or Solomon, who had hundreds of wives and concubines? And you imagine that eternal life is to be gained????

Ah, "the wages of sin is death, but the GIFT of GOD is ETERNAL LIFE through JESUS CHRIST our LORD."

If you receive not this life as a gift, you have not repented yet, Bert, and your position is delicate, to say the least.

76

News Item10/27/09 12:12 PM
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)  Find all comments by DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)
Hi John,

"God now commandeth all men everywhere to repent."

Does everyone repent? No, they do not. This is an example of God telling us what we need to do to obtain Salvation but He is leaving it completely in our hands as to whether we do what He tells us to or not.

"Whosoever believeth on him should not perish but have everlasting life."

Absolutely. But, a person who believes in Jesus can lose that Faith. There are all kinds of tricks that satan uses to tear us away from God.

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

Again, absolutely. But, once we have that rest, do we stay true to Jesus? If so, great! We earn everlasting life. If we don't, though, we throw the gift of everlasting life away.

You have to bear in mind, john, that satan and all his demons know *exactly* who Jesus is (even better than we do) but none of them have Saving Grace. Saving Grace is *offered* to all but not everyone accepts it. There are many athiests in the world and some (many?) of them used to be Christians. There are also many Christians who used to be athiests. It's a two way street, John. Which is why the Catholic Church says we have to do Works to maintain our Faith.

75

News Item10/27/09 11:54 AM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert) wrote:
Hi John,
I agree with most of what you say except the part about Saving Grace being irresistable. Remember that satan was in Heaven once and he threw it away. I believe that Saving Grace is offered to *everyone*. It is our choice - manifested in our actions and beliefs - as to whether we accept it or reject it. Further, anyone who receives Saving Grace can be lost just as satan did.
Hi Bert

I agree with your first seven words.

However, you do err when you imagine that 'saving grace' is 'offered'. This is not so. So what is 'on offer'?

"God now commandeth all men everywhere to repent."

"Whosoever believeth on him should not perish but have everlasting life."

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

'Saving grace' is an act of God, whereby the recipient is enlightened with the truth of WHO Jesus Christ IS, and WHAT he has DONE on their behalf. And seeing as not the entire world KNOW who Jesus IS, then this grace is evidently not given to all and sundry, is it?

"Blessed art thou, Simon bar-Jona..."

"Why speakest thou to them in parables..."

An intense study of the scriptures, Bert, will prove to you the truth of what I say.

74

News Item10/27/09 11:33 AM
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)  Find all comments by DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)
John UK wrote:
But then there is 'saving grace' which is irresistible to those who receive it. Although we do 'make' an actual 'choice' in bowing before Christ, and laying down our arms of rebellion against him, the reality is that the offer is so stupendous that it cannot be refused. The love of Christ constrains us, and wins us. There is no defeating this great love of Jesus Christ. Besides, quickening comes FIRST.
Hi John,

I agree with most of what you say except the part about Saving Grace being irresistable. Remember that satan was in Heaven once and he threw it away. I believe that Saving Grace is offered to *everyone*. It is our choice - manifested in our actions and beliefs - as to whether we accept it or reject it. Further, anyone who receives Saving Grace can lose it just as satan did.

73

News Item10/27/09 10:56 AM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert) wrote:
Hi John,
I wasn't referring to Salvation, just God's love. I firmly believe that God loves all of us equally regardless of what we do or where we ultimately end up. Just as you would continue to love your son or daughter if s/he were to end up in jail for some hideous crime. The fact that s/he commited the crime does not effect your love for your child because that love is unconditional - just like God's.
Hello again Bert

Well, as I've said many times on these threads, I hardly think God would have us 'honour all men' or say to us, 'Love your enemies' unless it were part of his own character. So I have no problem with that. I think the theologians call it 'common grace', meaning that some blessing or other is extended by God to every member of the human race.

But then there is 'saving grace' which is irresistible to those who receive it. Although we do 'make' an actual 'choice' in bowing before Christ, and laying down our arms of rebellion against him, the reality is that the offer is so stupendous that it cannot be refused. The love of Christ constrains us, and wins us. There is no defeating this great love of Jesus Christ. Besides, quickening comes FIRST.

72

News Item10/27/09 10:44 AM
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)  Find all comments by DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)
Hi John,

I wasn't referring to Salvation, just God's love. I firmly believe that God loves all of us equally regardless of what we do or where we ultimately end up. Just as you would continue to love your son or daughter if s/he were to end up in jail for some hideous crime. The fact that s/he commited the crime does not effect your love for your child because that love is unconditional - just like God's.

Wayne,

Peter is front and center in Acts 15 (7 - 11). But, as I mentioned before, the Papacy evolved over time. There wasn't much need of a designated leader in the early days of the Church because it was tiny. As the Church grew, it bacame more and more necessary to formalize the infrastructure. Just as a small congregation can meet in a gym, large ones require a building dedicated to their worship.

Moderator,

Thanks. It looks like I erred. Sorry for the work I caused you.

71

News Item10/27/09 10:32 AM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert) wrote:
You seem to have an unusual definition of love. Of course God loves Judas as much as He loves Peter and the damned in hell as much as the Saints. God loves everyone equally. It is *OUR* decision as to whether we end up in Heaven or hell and while the decision to follow the crowd to hell saddens God, it in no way diminishes His love for anyone in that crowd.
...
God's love for us is absolutely immutable. Whether I end up in Heaven or hell, I know God will continue to love me absolutely and unconditionally.
**** Why does this comment keep getting deleted? ****
You're getting paranoid, Bert.

In one sense you are right - because God is love, he loves. But in the salvific sense, you are way off beam.

There is a very special love which God has for those he has chosen out of the dregs of humanity. These are called 'the elect of God', and they are not chosen for any good in them. God never saved anyone yet because of their supposed goodness. In this you err.

How about if God was to be just? Would every soul be damned? Oh yes, sure we would. And it would be no benefit to be assured of God's love when we are languishing in hell. Methinks you do not believe in eternal punishment.

70

News Item10/27/09 9:58 AM
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)  Find all comments by DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)
Here it is:

Don,

I agree with AW on this one. You seem to have an unusual definition of love. Of course God loves Judas as much as He loves Peter and the damned in hell as much as the Saints. God loves everyone equally. It is *OUR* decision as to whether we end up in Heaven or hell and while the decision to follow the crowd to hell saddens God, it in no way diminishes His love for anyone in that crowd.

Consider a mother whose son is executed for a horrific act. Do you think she loved her son less when she found out what he did? If she had a true love for him like God has for us, his actions would have had no effect on her love for him at all. And, though she would no doubt have been devastated by the verdict and sentence handed to him, she would have accepted that it was just and right. That doesn't mean that she wanted to see her son executed just that she recognized that, because of the decisions her son made, he reaped what he had sown.

God's love for us is absolutely immutable. Whether I end up in Heaven or hell, I know God will continue to love me absolutely and unconditionally.

**** Why does this comment keep getting deleted? ****

69

News Item10/27/09 12:29 AM
Moderator Alpha  Protected NameFind all comments by Moderator Alpha
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert) wrote:
If you look in the "Pope Approves Plan to Bring Anglicans Into the Fold" thread, you will see a post by WayneM that starts with "The keys that Jesus figuratively gave to Peter". That post is in response to a post I made yet there are no posts from me in that thread. I know that it is possible that either Wayne or I accidentally crossed threads, but I don't think so in this case. My post was in response to Wayne's comment starting with "Misconception: "The Bible came from the Roman Catholic Church (and the RCC originated with the apostle Peter)".". Wayne's comments are there but mine are not.
I did some research on this and found Wayne M. posted "Misconception: etc." 10/21/09 11:43 AM in the "Pope Approves Plan to Bring Anglicans Into the Fold" thread and again 10/21/09 4:09 PM in the "Pope canonises five new saints" thread. This is why you don't see a post from you in the former thread and if you check that thread again you will see that you would have had to have been either the first or second person to post in that thread.

I believe the problem can be attributed to cross posting because "deletion" of a post in the Comment Forum also "blocks" future posting and you're still posting.

68

News Item10/26/09 11:44 PM
WayneM | northwest B.C.  Find all comments by WayneM
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert) wrote:
Hi Wayne,
To be quite honest, I'm not sure what to think..... What are the folks at free grace radio afraid of?
Hi Bert,

I am not familiar with free grace radio. When I listen to a sermon on SA, I have sometimes made a comment on the sermon. But you might be talking about something different; I don't know. I guess they only want to use their blog for positive comments agreeing with them.

If you still have the text of your post, go ahead and put it on here.

In the important council in Acts 15, Peter was not acting as a pope at all. If he had been a Pope, he would have issued an encyclical or at least some kind of pronouncment. The apostle Paul wrote about 13 epistles and never mentioned anything about Peter being a pope.

Ministers are not to lord it over others as the Pope does. Look at all the titles the Pope has. But the humble apostle Peter said: "Neither as being lords over god's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock." 1 Peter 5:3

There is nothing in the N.T. to support the papacy.

Read the book "Vicars of Christ" and see the history of the papacy written by RC writer and former Jesuit Peter de Rosa. You will be amazed. Power corrupts.

67

News Item10/26/09 9:49 PM
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)  Find all comments by DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)
Hi Wayne,

To be quite honest, I'm not sure what to think. If you look at the thread I mentioned earlier, you can see where you responded to a post of mine (it isn't obvious that it was my post, but it is obvious that it is a response) yet there are no posts from me in the thread. I do remember posting my comments and if I accidentally "lost" the post, you wouldn't have responded to it, would you?

Regardless, in spite of the news/blog difference, this puts sermonaudio in a bad light. It isn't obvious that the two sections are administered separately so it appears that the problem is with the sermonaudio administration team. Besides, why would anyone delete comments from a blog just because they didn't agree with them? I can understand if I used profanity or was really bashing someone (I still have the text of my post if you would like me to post it here) but I wasn't. I thought that it was rather tame. What are the folks at free grace radio afraid of?

66

News Item10/26/09 7:10 PM
WayneM | northwest B.C.  Find all comments by WayneM
Bert,

I don't recall ever seeing anybody's comment removed from a news item unless they were using foul language or abusive.

You mentioned another E mail address you were corrsponding with and they told you they had deleted something. But this has nothing to do with sermonaudio's news items which we have been commenting on; am I correct?

Are you satisfied with the reply you received from Moderator Alpha that they do not delete comments made in debate or discussion? These would be on the forum news item threads which we have been using.

I have run into the problem of leaving a comment in the comment window too long before submitting it and losing it that way. The suggestion of copying and pasting into a word processing program and saving it is a good idea. I have done that quite a few times just in case something happens to it. It is good insurance. I know from experience it is frustrating to loose a lot of work.

I think I see the difference the Moderator was talking about between the Forum Comments we have been using and a broadcaster blog. Those are their own blogs and they only allow comments that they agree with. They are not for debating. Stay on the Forum Comments section and you shouldn't have a problem posting what you want.

65

News Item10/26/09 3:59 PM
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)  Find all comments by DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)
OK, thanks, "Moderator Alpha"

Unfortunately, this seems to be more wide spread than I initially thought. If you look in the "Pope Approves Plan to Bring Anglicans Into the Fold" thread, you will see a post by WayneM that starts with "The keys that Jesus figuratively gave to Peter". That post is in response to a post I made yet there are no posts from me in that thread. I know that it is possible that either Wayne or I accidentally crossed threads, but I don't think so in this case. My post was in response to Wayne's comment starting with "Misconception: "The Bible came from the Roman Catholic Church (and the RCC originated with the apostle Peter)".". Wayne's comments are there but mine are not.

64

News Item10/26/09 2:45 PM
Moderator Alpha  Protected NameFind all comments by Moderator Alpha
Thanks for the additional information, Bert.

It seems your dispute is with the blog host and not SermonAudio. Btw, I am not Steven Lee but if you email him I'm sure he will explain the relationship between the SermonAudio sponsored and moderated "comment forum" and the broadcaster hosted "blogs".

Thank you.

63

News Item10/26/09 2:10 PM
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)  Find all comments by DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)
Thanks, Steven, but this isn't a technical issue. After posting, the comment is visible in the thread for a period of time before it disappears. My posts were deleted from the "Do You really Believe that?" thread. I sent an email to freegraceradio@gmail.com last night (there was a post directing me to but that post is gone as well) and I received an email from that address today signed by Larry Brown defending the deletions.

I will follow up with an email.

62

News Item10/26/09 2:00 PM
Moderator Alpha  Protected NameFind all comments by Moderator Alpha
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert) wrote:
On another note, I have to take some time to consider my future presence on this forum. My posts are being deleted because I present a dissenting voice. Such censorship is, in my books at least, very unChristian.
Normally I would not respond but in this case I believe there is a misunderstanding. I reviewed your posts over the past 30 days and found none that were "removed". "Deletion" is a rarely used option used only when compliance to the modest rules are continually ignored.

If your posts are vanishing into cyberspace when you are attempting to post a comment there could be several reasons but none are a form of censorship based on a "dissenting voice". May I suggest that before you attempt to post a comment that you first "select all" and "copy" it to clipboard. If it will not post perhaps too much time has elapsed in which case you can open another window, "paste" and repost. If this fails there may be a word in the text which will not pass the filters all posts must clear. This happens occasionally and an example would be if Hebrews 12:8 is quoted from the KJV.

I hope this information is helpful. If the problem persists please contact Steven Lee at info@sermonaudio.com

Thank you.

61
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