â€śThis statement brings up a curiosity, June. What was the objective of the Reformers? Surely they had in mind something that needed reforming.â€ť
I believe Richard Bennett, former R.C.priest, answers that question for you in his article entitled 'Identifying the Early Church' The early Christian church . . the apostolic church, which is representative of the true church of Christ bears no resemblance to the R.C. â€śchurch, and indeed add'tl passages in Scripture identify her as the â€śWhore of Babylonâ€ť, contrasted with His Bride, those joined to Him by His Spirit upon conversion, who are faithful to Christ and His doctrines.
'Identifying the Early Church' Link: http://www.bereanbeacon.org/articles/Identifying_the_Early_Church.pdf
Excerpt: â€śThe stark reality of the facts of history of the true church permeated with the Gospel of Godâ€™s grace in doctrine and practice utterly voids the papal assertion of an historical continuity between the early believers and the papal church via their dogma of apostolic succession. Rather the Roman Catholic Church is the proven schismatic from the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ.â€ť
May the Lord be pleased to add you to His Church!
"And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." (Acts 2:47)
xenos wrote: Same thought that is in the Christian when working in the world with anybody - That GOD might SAVE them. God's 16th century Reformation was to bring "His Church" back to the truth. The rest are guilty as charged and reprobate.
So God's Church left the truth, then, that it needed to be brought back. Can this be?
Bert, Shaun Willcock is my brother in the Lord, and those only are my brethren who are joined to the Lord by His Spirit, who express their solidarity in the glorious Gospel of our Lord & Saviour Jesus Christ. I would introduce you now to his ministry,with the hope & prayer that you will visit his site & read prayerfully & thoughtfully the commentary he provides there. There are many articles contrasting biblical Christianity with the false religious system called Roman Catholicism. The following link gives a brief overview of his labours in the Lord. http://www.biblebasedminist ries.co.uk/about/
It is my sincere desire that you would be both blessed & profited spiritually by his teaching ministry.
Doctrinal Basis of Bible Based Ministries - Excerpt:
"In brief, however, we believe in, & earnestly contend for, defend, & proclaim: the divine inspiration & preservation of the Holy Scriptures, and we use only the King James Version in English; the Holy Trinity; the doctrines of sovereign grace; justification by Christâ€™s imputed righteousness; the creation of all things in six literal days; believersâ€™ baptism; separation from the world and from false churches; the independence of the local church; & the Papacy being the prophesied Antichrist."
That's a lot of "nasties" in one post. Can we just start with the Mass? What is it about the Mass that you find so offensive? How is it dishonoring Jesus? How is it blasphemous? I was lead to the Catholic Church by the Holy Spirit so you can understand why I don't see the Mass the way you do.
I strongly disagree and stand by my assertion that "the Mass" is Christ-dishonouring, Christ-insulting & at bottom blasphemous!
Roman Catholicism and Christianity are diametrically opposed, and "the Mass" is but one irreconcilable difference.
Because the RCC is irreformable, there is no hope.
On the other hand, there is hope for you, and those of us who are Christians hope and pray that you too will hear the voice of the Lord and "come out from among her", for she is the Whore of Babylon spoken of in Rev. 17.
Rev. 18:4 "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."
The Catholic Mass is known by a number of different names. It is called the Mass, the Bloodless Sacrifice and Breaking Bread among others.
I agree that the Apostolic Church did as Jesus instructed them to. Jesus, in giving thanks, offered the bread up to His Father thereby making it a sacrifice - a bloodless sacrifice. He also told them that the bread was His Body and the wine was His Blood. That is not Christ-dishonoring. It is honoring Him and the Sacrifice He made on Calvary. The Catholic Church is not suggesting in any way that His Sacrifice on Calvary is deficient we are just doing what He instructed us to do.
I am a Catholic, yes. And like all Catholics, I am a Christian. No, we do not agree 100% but there is hope
The â€śR.C. Massâ€ť is not in view here . . the Lord's Table is! Bert, there is a vast difference between â€ścoming together to break breadâ€ť and the "Bloodless Sacrifice" represented by the â€śR.C. Massâ€ť. When the Lord instructed His people to â€śdo this in remembrance of meâ€ť; he did not instruct them to perform a â€śbloodless sacrificeâ€ť. The early Christian church . . . the apostolic era church, which is in view here, came together to â€śbreak breadâ€ť and this they did by way of a memorial service, as Christ instructed them to do:
And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.â€ť
To suggest that Christ's â€śperfect sacrificeâ€ť is in any way deficient and presume to add to what Christ has perfected forever by the sacrifice He made when He offered Himself up for the sins of His people once for all is Christ-dishonouring, Christ-insulting and at bottom blasphemous.
Heb. 10:14 â€śFor by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.â€ť
I am a Christian . . you are as yet a R.C. We are not in agreement.
Except for the negative remarks you made against the Catholic Church and the statement you made that all sacrifices are done away with, I agree with you. I honestly don't understand why you feel that this would be foreign to me. I agree completely with the paragraph starting with "Believers are referred to..." and I personally don't know a single Catholic who would find that foreign.
The one thing you didn't address is Jesus' instructions at the Last Supper. Jesus made an offering to His Father of bread and wine. He then instructed the Apostles to also offer bread and wine to our Father in remenbrance of Him. That they did that can be seen in Ats 20:7. Since what they were doing in Acts 20:7 eventually became known as the Mass, I don't understand how you can claim that the Mass is unBiblical or that it was eliminatedd by Jesus. The Apostles were instructed by Jesus to celebrate the Mass.
Christ is neither a piece of bread, nor a table, but rather both typify the communion . . the fellowship we have been brought into with Him upon conversion.
ALL sacrifices are done away with by the PERFECT sacrifice Christ made, eliminating the need of any add'tl sacrifice, and that most certainly includes the R.C. Mass. Just as we are to look to no other priest but Christ, neither are we to trust in any sacrifice but that which Christ made, so you see, he is both priest and sacrifice.
Believers are referred to as â€śa royal priesthoodâ€ť in 1 Peter 2:9-10, & we offer our praise, worship and thanksgiving to Christ for what He has done for us. Our love is demonstrated by keeping his commandments which are revealed in God's Word. That means we must spend time reading and meditating upon His Word and praying that the Holy Spirit will lead us into truth. When we learn His ways, & our wills are conformed to His, then we worship God in â€śspirit and in truthâ€ť (John 4:23. These new desires to do God's will follow the new birth.(John 3:3-8; 1 Pet. 1:23) True & vital worship flows from a restored relationship w/God thru Christ. Then we grow in grace!
As a former R.C., I know how alien to you this all must sound & if I had more space, I could elaborate. Next post!
"ALL Christians who post here need to pray in earnest for our very religious Roman Catholic friend -- DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)."
Amen . . and that I have just done and will continue to do.
"For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge." Romans 10:2 ********
djc49, As a former benighted Roman Catholic, I must say, there but by the grace of God go I! I thank God each day for answering my prayer as I read His Word to give me discernment. In addition to that, God has graciously placed in my path 'pastors, according to his heart to feed me with knowledge and understanding.' (Jer.3:15)
Yet I know it is the Holy Spirit that has revealed these precious gospel truths found in Hebrews and elsewhere to me, else I too would yet be in spiritual darkness and in bondage to my sins and the idolatry of Rome.
"Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God . . . Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth, . . ." 1 Cor. 2:12-13 "The entrance of they words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple." Psalms 119:130 ************* Bert, I will attempt to respond to your latest post as time perm
How/why do you feel that I am deluded? I have tried very hard over the last month or so to see and accept what many people here are proposing. But, every time someone claims that the Catholic Church is being unBiblical or unChristian, I find Scriptural Passages supporting the Catholic stand and not the one being proposed. How is that delusional?
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert) wrote: Hi June, What about the sacrifices we are to make? Jesus was very specific in His instructions at the Last Supper. I Have to question your interpretation of Jesus as the "table of showbread". Yes, Jesus is the Bread of Life, but He is not a table. I also agree that the Priesthood, etc established under Mosaic Law have been abolished. But, that does not mean that sacrifices are completely abolished; just the ones described in Leviticus. We no longer have to sacrifice animals. The Mass is sometimes referred to as a "Bloodless Sacrifice".
ALL Christians who post here need to pray in earnest for our very religious Roman Catholic friend -- DisplacedMaritimer(Bert). May God, through the Holy Spirit, bring conviction and repentance to him (resulting in his "new birth" and eternal salvation). Only a sovereign, gracious act of God can rescue him out of his present strong delusion.