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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  4/1/2020
MONDAY, SEP 28, 2009  |  57 comments  |  1 commentary
Pope: Remember Christian tradition
Pope Benedict XVI said all of Europe — and not only this ex-communist country — must acknowledge its Christian heritage as it copes with rising immigration from other cultures and religions.

The second day of Benedict's pilgrimage to this highly secular country was marked by a joyous open-air Mass that drew tens of thousands of pilgrims and a sober message for the entire continent.

"History has demonstrated the absurdities to which man descends when he excludes God from the horizon of his choices and actions," Benedict said Sunday. ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 57 user comment(s)
News Item10/7/09 3:29 PM
Oatcake  Find all comments by Oatcake
Mike wrote:
So God's Church left the truth, then, that it needed to be brought back. Can this be?
Yes exactly right.

During the first 1500 years the church split into Augustinian and (semi)Pelagian.
Today it is called Calvinism and Arminian(free will/save yourself).

Over the years these two seeds developed until the free will crowd, like many churches today, had to be surgically removed, and it was called Reformation.

Remember Mike as I have told you before there is only two ways - God's way versus man's way, - Sovereign Will or free will.

57

News Item10/7/09 2:58 PM
June  Find all comments by June
Mike said:

“This statement brings up a curiosity, June. What was the objective of the Reformers? Surely they had in mind something that needed reforming.”

I believe Richard Bennett, former R.C.priest, answers that question for you in his article entitled 'Identifying the Early Church'
The early Christian church . . the apostolic church, which is representative of the true church of Christ bears no resemblance to the R.C. “church, and indeed add'tl passages in Scripture identify her as the “Whore of Babylon”, contrasted with His Bride, those joined to Him by His Spirit upon conversion, who are faithful to Christ and His doctrines.

'Identifying the Early Church'
Link: http://www.bereanbeacon.org/articles/Identifying_the_Early_Church.pdf

Excerpt:
“The stark reality of the facts of history of the true church permeated with the Gospel of God’s grace in doctrine and practice utterly voids the papal assertion of an historical continuity between the early believers and the papal church via their dogma of apostolic succession. Rather the Roman Catholic Church is the proven schismatic from the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ.”

May the Lord be pleased to add you to His Church!

"And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." (Acts 2:47)

June

56

News Item10/7/09 1:55 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
xenos wrote:
Same thought that is in the Christian when working in the world with anybody - That GOD might SAVE them.
God's 16th century Reformation was to bring "His Church" back to the truth. The rest are guilty as charged and reprobate.
So God's Church left the truth, then, that it needed to be brought back. Can this be?
55

News Item10/6/09 2:36 PM
xenos  Find all comments by xenos
Mike wrote:
This statement brings up a curiosity, June. What was the objective of the Reformers? Surely they had in mind something that needed reforming.
Same thought that is in the Christian when working in the world with anybody - That GOD might SAVE them.

God's 16th century Reformation was to bring "His Church" back to the truth. The rest are guilty as charged and reprobate.

54

News Item10/6/09 1:51 PM
June  Find all comments by June
John UK Wales . . OpenedEyes . . .

May the Lord be pleased to bless OUR WITNESS for Christ and be pleased as well to use the ministry of Shaun Willcock to the welfare of Bert's eternal soul, for His praise & glory alone!

In His Cause,

June, your sister in the Lord

53

News Item10/6/09 1:04 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
Opened Eyes wrote:
.........
Luke 24: 45 Then opened he (Christ) their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures
v31 'their eyes were opened, and they knew Him'
Good biblical moniker, bro!

Shaun Willcock is a good'n, yes sir!

52

News Item10/6/09 12:52 PM
Opened Eyes  Find all comments by Opened Eyes
June wrote:
Bert, Shaun Willcock is my brother in the Lord, In Christian love, Jun
Hey June

I have been in contact with Shaun for several years so it is good to see you quoting his ministry and website.

May God be pleased to bless your witness

Luke 24: 45 Then opened he (Christ) their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures

v31 'their eyes were opened, and they knew Him'

51

News Item10/6/09 12:37 PM
June  Find all comments by June
Bert, Shaun Willcock is my brother in the Lord, and those only are my brethren who are joined to the Lord by His Spirit, who express their solidarity in the glorious Gospel of our Lord & Saviour Jesus Christ. I would introduce you now to his ministry,with the hope & prayer that you will visit his site & read prayerfully & thoughtfully the commentary he provides there. There are many articles contrasting biblical Christianity with the false religious system called Roman Catholicism. The following link gives a brief overview of his labours in the Lord.
http://www.biblebasedminist
ries.co.uk/about/

It is my sincere desire that you would be both blessed & profited spiritually by his teaching ministry.

Doctrinal Basis of Bible Based Ministries - Excerpt:

"In brief, however, we believe in, & earnestly contend for, defend, & proclaim: the divine inspiration & preservation of the Holy Scriptures, and we use only the King James Version in English; the Holy Trinity; the doctrines of sovereign grace; justification by Christ’s imputed righteousness; the creation of all things in six literal days; believers’ baptism; separation from the world and from false churches; the independence of the local church; & the Papacy being the prophesied Antichrist."

June, a witness 4 CHRIST

50

News Item10/6/09 11:00 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
June wrote:
---
Because the RCC is irreformable, there is no hope.
---
This statement brings up a curiosity, June. What was the objective of the Reformers? Surely they had in mind something that needed reforming.
49

News Item10/6/09 10:35 AM
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)  Find all comments by DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)
Hi June,

That's a lot of "nasties" in one post. Can we just start with the Mass? What is it about the Mass that you find so offensive? How is it dishonoring Jesus? How is it blasphemous? I was lead to the Catholic Church by the Holy Spirit so you can understand why I don't see the Mass the way you do.

48

News Item10/6/09 9:41 AM
June  Find all comments by June
Hi Bert,

I strongly disagree and stand by my assertion that "the Mass" is Christ-dishonouring, Christ-insulting & at bottom blasphemous!

Roman Catholicism and Christianity are diametrically opposed, and "the Mass" is but one irreconcilable difference.

Because the RCC is irreformable, there is no hope.

On the other hand, there is hope for you, and those of us who are Christians hope and pray that you too will hear the voice of the Lord and "come out from among her", for she is the Whore of Babylon spoken of in Rev. 17.

Rev. 18:4
"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

Roman Catholics are not Christians.

47

News Item10/6/09 9:27 AM
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)  Find all comments by DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)
Hi June,

The Catholic Mass is known by a number of different names. It is called the Mass, the Bloodless Sacrifice and Breaking Bread among others.

I agree that the Apostolic Church did as Jesus instructed them to. Jesus, in giving thanks, offered the bread up to His Father thereby making it a sacrifice - a bloodless sacrifice. He also told them that the bread was His Body and the wine was His Blood. That is not Christ-dishonoring. It is honoring Him and the Sacrifice He made on Calvary. The Catholic Church is not suggesting in any way that His Sacrifice on Calvary is deficient we are just doing what He instructed us to do.

I am a Catholic, yes. And like all Catholics, I am a Christian. No, we do not agree 100% but there is hope

46

News Item10/6/09 9:04 AM
June  Find all comments by June
Bert:

The “R.C. Mass” is not in view here . . the Lord's Table is!
Bert, there is a vast difference between “coming together to break bread” and the "Bloodless Sacrifice" represented by the “R.C. Mass”. When the Lord instructed His people to “do this in remembrance of me”; he did not instruct them to perform a “bloodless sacrifice”. The early Christian church . . . the apostolic era church, which is in view here, came together to “break bread” and this they did by way of a memorial service, as Christ instructed them to do:

Luke: 22:19-20

And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.”

To suggest that Christ's “perfect sacrifice” is in any way deficient and presume to add to what Christ has perfected forever by the sacrifice He made when He offered Himself up for the sins of His people once for all is Christ-dishonouring, Christ-insulting and at bottom blasphemous.

Heb. 10:14
“For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”

I am a Christian . . you are as yet a R.C. We are not in agreement.

45

News Item10/5/09 9:17 PM
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)  Find all comments by DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)
My point was that I agreed with much of what you said. Not all, but much of it especially the stuff you seemed to be saying that I would find foreign.

Yes, that is the verse. The disciples came together to Break Bread which is what Jesus instructed them to do at the Last Supper.

44

News Item10/5/09 7:50 PM
June  Find all comments by June
Bert said:
"Except for the negative remarks you made against the Catholic Church and the statement you made that all sacrifices are done away with, I agree with you"

Then we are NOT IN AGREEMENT.

Is this the verse in question? ? ?
Acts 20:7

"And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."

43

News Item10/5/09 7:27 PM
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)  Find all comments by DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)
Hi June,

Except for the negative remarks you made against the Catholic Church and the statement you made that all sacrifices are done away with, I agree with you. I honestly don't understand why you feel that this would be foreign to me. I agree completely with the paragraph starting with "Believers are referred to..." and I personally don't know a single Catholic who would find that foreign.

The one thing you didn't address is Jesus' instructions at the Last Supper. Jesus made an offering to His Father of bread and wine. He then instructed the Apostles to also offer bread and wine to our Father in remenbrance of Him. That they did that can be seen in Ats 20:7. Since what they were doing in Acts 20:7 eventually became known as the Mass, I don't understand how you can claim that the Mass is unBiblical or that it was eliminatedd by Jesus. The Apostles were instructed by Jesus to celebrate the Mass.

42

News Item10/5/09 7:07 PM
June  Find all comments by June
Hi Bert,

Christ is neither a piece of bread, nor a table, but rather both typify the communion . . the fellowship we have been brought into with Him upon conversion.

ALL sacrifices are done away with by the PERFECT sacrifice Christ made, eliminating the need of any add'tl sacrifice, and that most certainly includes the R.C. Mass. Just as we are to look to no other priest but Christ, neither are we to trust in any sacrifice but that which Christ made, so you see, he is both priest and sacrifice.

Believers are referred to as “a royal priesthood” in 1 Peter 2:9-10, & we offer our praise, worship and thanksgiving to Christ for what He has done for us. Our love is demonstrated by keeping his commandments which are revealed in God's Word. That means we must spend time reading and meditating upon His Word and praying that the Holy Spirit will lead us into truth. When we learn His ways, & our wills are conformed to His, then we worship God in “spirit and in truth” (John 4:23. These new desires to do God's will follow the new birth.(John 3:3-8; 1 Pet. 1:23) True & vital worship flows from a restored relationship w/God thru Christ. Then we grow in grace!

As a former R.C., I know how alien to you this all must sound & if I had more space, I could elaborate. Next post!

41

News Item10/5/09 11:45 AM
June  Find all comments by June
djc49 at the library said:

"ALL Christians who post here need to pray in earnest for our very religious Roman Catholic friend -- DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)."

Amen . . and that I have just done and will continue to do.

"For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge." Romans 10:2
********

djc49, As a former benighted Roman Catholic, I must say, there but by the grace of God go I!
I thank God each day for answering my prayer as I read His Word to give me discernment. In addition to that, God has graciously placed in my path 'pastors, according to his heart to feed me with knowledge and understanding.' (Jer.3:15)

Yet I know it is the Holy Spirit that has revealed these precious gospel truths found in Hebrews and elsewhere to me, else I too would yet be in spiritual darkness and in bondage to my sins and the idolatry of Rome.

"Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God . . .
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth, . . ."
1 Cor. 2:12-13
"The entrance of they words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple." Psalms 119:130
*************
Bert, I will attempt to respond to your latest post as time perm

40

News Item10/5/09 11:34 AM
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)  Find all comments by DisplacedMaritimer(Bert)
djc49,

How/why do you feel that I am deluded? I have tried very hard over the last month or so to see and accept what many people here are proposing. But, every time someone claims that the Catholic Church is being unBiblical or unChristian, I find Scriptural Passages supporting the Catholic stand and not the one being proposed. How is that delusional?

39

News Item10/5/09 11:22 AM
djc49 | at the library  Find all comments by djc49
DisplacedMaritimer(Bert) wrote:
Hi June,
What about the sacrifices we are to make? Jesus was very specific in His instructions at the Last Supper.
I Have to question your interpretation of Jesus as the "table of showbread". Yes, Jesus is the Bread of Life, but He is not a table.
I also agree that the Priesthood, etc established under Mosaic Law have been abolished. But, that does not mean that sacrifices are completely abolished; just the ones described in Leviticus. We no longer have to sacrifice animals. The Mass is sometimes referred to as a "Bloodless Sacrifice".
ALL Christians who post here need to pray in earnest for our very religious Roman Catholic friend -- DisplacedMaritimer(Bert).
May God, through the Holy Spirit, bring conviction and repentance to him (resulting in his "new birth" and eternal salvation). Only a sovereign, gracious act of God can rescue him out of his present strong delusion.
38
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