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FRONT PAGE  |  10/18/2017
WEDNESDAY, SEP 9, 2009  |  35 comments
9/9/09: Will the world end today?
Today was heralded by some pessimists as the last day in the history of the human race. Internet chat rooms devoted to the occult have been awash with talk of 09/09/09.

On Tuesday the term 09/09/09 was among the top 100 search terms on Google, with some warning that the world would be sucked into a black hole created by the Cern particle collider in Switzerland, or humans would be hit by a killer outbreak of swine flu.

But at 9am this morning nothing happened, although there is still the possibility that the world could end at precisely 9pm of course. ...


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
www.telegraph.co.uk

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News Item9/16/09 3:43 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
A. 2 u wrote:
Traducianism = The child's 'soul' comes from his mummy and daddy.
A. 2 u wrote:
Whereas eg Luther and Jonathan Edwards preferred traducianism!!
What!!

Are you sure?

35

News Item9/16/09 3:26 PM
Answer  Find all comments by Answer
A. 2 u wrote:
1]Traducianism = The child's 'soul' comes from his mummy and daddy.
2]Creationism = (In this case) God creates a new soul for every mortal born.
3]Do you think that God's omniscience is constrained by time?
4] God would have 'infinite' knowledge of all people and their outcome.
1]Reject, heretical

2]Accept, biblical

3]No, omniscience means that God knows all. He has no constraints.

4]Absolutely. Again, that's what omniscience is by definition. Any other view of God, is heretical. In other words, He would not be the God revealed to us in Scripture, and in creation, if He were not all-knowing.

34

News Item9/16/09 3:16 PM
A. 2 u  Find all comments by A. 2 u
Answer wrote:
2] Don't know the ideology behind the word - traducianism - will probably never use it again.
I'm a creationist if the meaning you ascribe to it is that God created the world.
The Scripture that you cite is that God had a plan, and it would be unfolded over time, with His intended results - the redemption of all those whom He would call.
3] He knew *whom* He would bring to faith/redemption/salvation.
My goodness you came back fast today.

Traducianism = The child's 'soul' comes from his mummy and daddy.

Creationism = (In this case) God creates a new soul for every mortal born.

Pre-existence (of the soul) is self explanitory.

However I was going to ask you, Do you think that God's omniscience is constrained by time?

Mortals are constrained by time in their thoughts in relation to the future existence of a person.

If omniscience is not so constrained then God may 'know' the person from the foundation of the world. Hence God would have 'infinite' knowledge of all people and their outcome.
(Still dealing with my point on eternal life and God's decision on who goes where and why)

33

News Item9/16/09 2:34 PM
Answer  Find all comments by Answer
A. 2 u. The old heretic wrote:
1] Well being as you have all the 'answers' Answer you must be right.
2]How about traducianism instead? -
Whats the answer, Answer???
On the other hand.
Eph 1:4/5 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world,.... Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Is God's omnipotence and His omniscience and His foreknowledge in His "predestinating" of the Elect?
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate"
"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father" 1Pet 1.2
3]Just what precisely did GOD Know?
1] I don't think any of us, or all of us together, have all the answers to all the questions. I'd much rather hear an "I don't know" than speculation with confident assertion.
2] Don't know the ideology behind the word - traducianism - will probably never use it again.
I'm a creationist if the meaning you ascribe to it is that God created the world.
The Scripture that you cite is that God had a plan, and it would be unfolded over time, with His intended results - the redemption of all those whom He would call.
3] He knew *whom* He would bring to faith/redemption/salvation.
32

News Item9/16/09 2:02 PM
A. 2 u. The old heretic  Find all comments by A. 2 u. The old heretic
Answer wrote:
If your thinking on this is otherwise, it is more in line with a false religion that believes people existed in spirit before they were born on earth. Not true.
So I'm just an old heretic. Well being as you have all the 'answers' Answer you must be right.

How about traducianism instead? - or is it creationism that you teach?

You've already rejected pre-existence of the soul. [Poor old Origen and the Alexandrian school, ]

Being a good Calvinist (by the grace of God) I prefer the 'creationism' concept.

Whereas eg Luther and Jonathan Edwards preferred traducianism!!
(Great word isn't it)

So whats the answer, Answer???

On the other hand.
Eph 1:4/5 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Is God's omnipotence and His omniscience and His foreknowledge in His "predestinating" of the Elect?
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate" Ro 8.29
"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father" 1Pet 1.2

Just what precisely did GOD Know?

31

News Item9/16/09 11:16 AM
Answer  Find all comments by Answer
A. 2 u wrote:
Yup! You are beginning to understand the truth at last!
Eternal life begins when God made the decision for the elect in heaven and the rest in hell!
ps Time is a temporal element.
Hey, A.2u...R U still around? ..I've thought about your above assertion....I find it to be heretical, if you are saying that we have eternal life before we were born. If, on the other hand, you are saying that God predestined us to eternal life, that is Biblical. He planned our existence and our being brought into His family by the Spirit's work.

For the sake of clarity: we HAVE to be conceived in the womb BEFORE we exist. We did not exist before we were born; thus, we did not have eternal life before we were born.
Furthermore, we have to born again of the Spirit in order to have eternal life. It is an event that takes place during our time on earth. The elect were not born with eternal life; otherwise, there would not be the call that one has to be "born again."
If your thinking on this is otherwise, it is more in line with a false religion that believes people existed in spirit before they were born on earth. Not true.

30

News Item9/14/09 2:14 PM
A. 2 u. Unworthy Answer  Find all comments by A. 2 u. Unworthy Answer
Answer wrote:
I'm interested in your take on WHY it was necessary to bring to physical life both elect and non-elect. Why not create just the elect? Why even have time as a factor?
Pretty profound course you have veered onto.

Why did God create the elect and the reprobate?
=Duality?

There has to be two of everything to compare. Thus
Light vs Dark
Up vs Down
Left vs Right
In vs Out
Right vs Wrong
Good vs Evil
Elect vs Reprobate
Heaven vs Hell

To perceive the one (either one)
The intellect must be cognizant of the two.

Ultimately your question is, Why did God create?
The problem with our deliberating over this question is that we can only bring a finite and sinful mind to bear upon it. I think that this would bring about an insufficient result to the question.

Were we to speculate, we might establish (1) God is love (2) God so loved the world He gave His only Son to die ignominiously and painfully, paying for the crimes of those whom HE loved unconditionally. But even this does not provide an exact solution to 'WHY' ultimately HE created.
Because HE created everything.

Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen

29

News Item9/14/09 1:08 PM
Answer  Find all comments by Answer
A. 2 u wrote:
1. Ooohh You are mean.
2. Yup! You are beginning to understand the truth at last!
Eternal life begins when God made the decision for the elect in heaven and the rest in hell!
ps Time is a temporal element.
1] If you say so . . .
2] I'm mulling that over, but I'm interested in your take on WHY it was necessary to bring to physical life both elect and non-elect. Why not create just the elect? Why even have time as a factor?
28

News Item9/14/09 12:25 PM
A. 2 u  Find all comments by A. 2 u
Answer wrote:
1. Grab a tissue. Your sarcasm is dripping down your chin.

2. So, eternal life begins before one is born, Einstein?

1. Ooohh You are mean.

2. Yup! You are beginning to understand the truth at last!
Eternal life begins when God made the decision for the elect in heaven and the rest in hell!

ps Time is a temporal element.

27

News Item9/14/09 11:49 AM
Reasons  Find all comments by Reasons
Amill wrote:
I simply raise the question to get the PreMills to provide a 'credible reason' behind their conviction, whereby God requires this extended period of time and to what purpose.
Viz.
1. The millennium will prove that even with every possible advantage (i.e., God dwelling among mankind in the person of Jesus, etc.), mankind will rebel. This further glorifies the work of Jesus on the cross by proving that mankind is absolutely depraved, and displays God's glorious grace even more plainly to the entire universe.

Further, it fulfills God's promises to Israel. This also gives glory to God. God always fulfills his promises, so another purpose could be to prove wrong all those who doubt God, including those who believe that the church has replaced Irael.

2. The millennium does not interfere at all with God's sovereign election. What is your objection, exactly? It has nothing to do with God requiring further experience. It has everything to do with mankind requiring further experience, apparently.

3. See No. 2 above. You appear to be fixated on election to the point where you cannot see that other doctrinal truths do not threaten it.

4. Ditto.

5. It is not a second extended period, it is the fulfillment of God's plan.

26

News Item9/14/09 11:03 AM
Answer  Find all comments by Answer
A. 2 u wrote:
Ah nice! As long as you remember you are perfect and not fooled by theology everything will be ok.
Grab a tissue. Your sarcasm is dripping down your chin.
A.2u You are at the wrong end genius!
Eternal life begins at....the point spoken of in Eph 1:4,5!!So, eternal life begins before one is born, Einstein?

A.2u Oh well! One out of three is not bad I suppose.
Have a nice day. You are so gratuitous...that must come from a heart of humility. Tell me how I may become like you.

25

News Item9/14/09 10:20 AM
A. 2 u  Find all comments by A. 2 u
Answer wrote:
No, they are all flawed. They have been neatly tied into little packages
Ah nice! As long as you remember you are perfect and not fooled by theology everything will be ok.

Answer wrote:
When does eternal begin for the Redeemed?
You are at the wrong end genius!
Eternal life begins at....the point spoken of in Eph 1:4,5!!

Answer wrote:
Ah, but He planned for Redemption from sin BEFORE the world began.
Oh well! One out of three is not bad I suppose.

Have a nice day.

24

News Item9/13/09 3:34 PM
Answer  Find all comments by Answer
answer 2 u wrote:
1. Come now lets stick to common sense. ONE of them must be Biblical!
No, they are all flawed. They have been neatly tied into little packages so that people can take sides without having to measure verse by verse, and leave it at that. To label one's self as pre- post- amill- allows one to define themselves without having to give Scripture when a question is posed.
answer 2 u
2. The promise is for eternal life which actually is longer than 1000 years REST!When does eternal begin for the Redeemed?
answer 2 u
3. God did not create a world of sin.
Gen 1:31 "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, IT WAS VERY GOOD."Ah, but He planned for Redemption from sin BEFORE the world began.
answer 2 u
4. "What the Bible says!" - There I've said it, just as You asked.
23

News Item9/13/09 2:03 PM
answer 2 u  Find all comments by answer 2 u
Answer wrote:
1. I'm not Pre-mil or Post-mil or A-mil...I refuse to be labelled. I'll be Biblical

2. Sabbath rest

3. calling for common sense to reign, one could say that "since God is Sovereign, and the elect were chosen from the foundation of the world, there would be no reason to create a world of sin and suffering where evil

4. Just say what the Bible says, and don't draw "common sense" conclusions.

1. Come now lets stick to common sense. ONE of them must be Biblical!

2. The promise is for eternal life which actually is longer than 1000 years REST!

3. God did not create a world of sin.
Gen 1:31 "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, IT WAS VERY GOOD."

4. "What the Bible says!" - There I've said it, just as You asked.

22

News Item9/13/09 12:49 PM
Answer  Find all comments by Answer
Amill wrote:
I simply raise the question to get the PreMills to provide a 'credible reason' behind their conviction,...[1000 yrs on earth]
I'm not Pre-mil or Post-mil or A-mil...I refuse to be labelled. I'll be Biblical! The Sabbath was instituted at creation, commanded at Sinai, and, was to be a perpetual covenant. There was a Sabbath day, and a Sabbath year, or the Year of Jubliee, where the land rested, slaves were emancipated, and debts were remited. It was ilustrative of spiritual release.
Given that recorded history is of the past 6,000 yrs., a thousand year reign of Christ on earth, would be consistent with the Sabbath rest mentioned in Hebrews 4:1-11. See vs. 9: There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
If one follows your line of reasoning, calling for common sense to reign, one could say that "since God is Sovereign, and the elect were chosen from the foundation of the world, there would be no reason to create a world of sin and suffering where evil people would live and die and go to hell, and the elect would have to experience it - all for the sake of what? experience?" Just say what the Bible says, and don't draw "common sense" conclusions.
21

News Item9/13/09 10:10 AM
Amill  Find all comments by Amill
djc49 wrote:
....staunchly amillennial.... I have never understood
I simply raise the question to get the PreMills to provide a 'credible reason' behind their conviction, whereby God requires this extended period of time and to what purpose.
Viz.
1. What is the reason for a second albeit 1000 year period, FROM God's perspective?
2. Election BY God is sovereign and complete. He is omnipotent and omniscient therfore why would HE require further 'experience' of humans. (Note it cannot be further knowledge/wisdom)
3. Since God's election decision is complete, indeed was completed before the foundation of the world, (Eph 1:4,5) what else does God need to 'find out' or identify within *HIS* chosen people? HE chose them! Is it to require a second period of experience? inspection? examination? scrutiny? BY God?
4. Is there something HE missed first time around? If HE has already granted eternal life, why does God require a further period of experience with His chosen elect? - To confirm His choice? to make sure? Is there doubt in God?
5. What could a second extended period of human existence achieve for God?

Unless the PreMill can provide a credible reason for their conviction - then common sense should tell them not to accept it.

20

News Item9/12/09 3:42 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Amill, we get 1,000 years plus eternity! Perhaps you should read, John MacArthur's A Jet Tour Through the Book of Revelation which will help your Eschatology
.

But, yes, one of us is going to be greatly surprised.

No Hebrew Calendar! I'm a Christian and part of the New Covenant and not of the Old! However, it is good to know about it,
HEBREW CALENDAR:
Names of Months. The names of the months of the Hebrew Calendar are: Abib or Nisan (ex 12:2-37; ex 13:4; ne 2:1; es 3:7); Iyar or Zif (1ki 6:1); Sivan (es 8:9); Tammuz (eze 8:14); Ab; Elul (ne 6:15); Ethanim or Tishri (1ki 8:2); Marchesvan or Bul (1ki 6:38); Chisleu (zec 7:1); Tebeth (es 2:16); Sebat (zec 1:7); Adar (es 3:7). Events in the Seventh Month. The seventh month of the year Was distinguished by, the feast of trumpets (nu 29:1-6), the day of atonement (le 23:26-32), the feast of tabernacles (le 23:34-44), and every fiftieth year the jubilee began in this month (le 25:1-17).

19

News Item9/12/09 1:40 PM
djc49 | at the library  Find all comments by djc49
Amill wrote:
There is absolutely no reason Biblical or otherwise whatsoever for the Lord to repeat the process of election a second time.

God is omnipotent and omniscient HE has already made all the decisions necessary to election and salvation.
Therefore the concept of a one thousand year period of reigning, with another test or trial at the end of it is both unBiblical and irrelevant.

Although staunchly amillennial in my eschatology, I have never understood this particular line of reasoning/argument as given above by *Amill*.
18

News Item9/12/09 9:39 AM
Mary becomes George  Find all comments by Mary becomes George
Silas Marner wrote:
It did not end because our current calendar has been messed with by the Popes, specifically Gregor. And, before that, it was messed with by the Romans--that's why September--usually 'sept' means 7th, and October, where 'oct' means 8th, and November, where 'nov' means 9th, come later in the calendar than they should be. We need to go back to the Hebrew calendar! The Bible says, "If my people, who are called by my name, repent..." which means we should repent of our perversion of His Calendar by pagans and Romanists!
Weaver of Raveloe,
Time is relative.
The denominating of time is relative.
However the passage of time is actual only in the temporal. Ergo man in his finite wisdom can only be relative to the temporal which becomes dust, in time.
17

News Item9/12/09 9:21 AM
Silas Marner | Isle of Woman, England  Find all comments by Silas Marner
It did not end because our current calendar has been messed with by the Popes, specifically Gregor. And, before that, it was messed with by the Romans--that's why September--usually 'sept' means 7th, and October, where 'oct' means 8th, and November, where 'nov' means 9th, come later in the calendar than they should be. We need to go back to the Hebrew calendar! The Bible says, "If my people, who are called by my name, repent..." which means we should repent of our perversion of His Calendar by pagans and Romanists!
16
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