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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  8/21/2019
THURSDAY, MAR 12, 2009  |  33 comments
The coming evangelical collapse
Oneida, Ky. - We are on the verge – within 10 years – of a major collapse of evangelical Christianity. This breakdown will follow the deterioration of the mainline Protestant world and it will fundamentally alter the religious and cultural environment in the West.

Within two generations, evangelicalism will be a house deserted of half its occupants. (Between 25 and 35 percent of Americans today are Evangelicals.) In the "Protestant" 20th century, Evangelicals flourished. But they will soon be living in a very secular and religiously antagonistic 21st century.

This collapse will herald the arrival of an anti-Christian chapter of the post-Christian West. Intolerance of Christianity will rise to levels many of us have not believed possible in our lifetimes, and public policy will become hostile toward evangelical Christianity, seeing it as the opponent of the common good. ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 33 user comment(s)
News Item4/28/09 5:05 PM
Faithful Remnant  Find all comments by Faithful Remnant
Thanks for the info. If plans show that I will be here for longer than just this Spring, I will look into this. There are some other good Protestant churches here. Even the Estonian Pentecostal Church seems quite stable compared to these other charismatic folks.
33

News Item4/28/09 12:11 PM
takeheed  Find all comments by takeheed
Faithful remnant

There is a Reformed couple who have visited Lithuania and Latvia and who I think teach English. They might have info on Estonia. Have given them an email and will only post back if there is anything positive if they reply

32

News Item4/28/09 12:09 PM
prince charles | wales  Find all comments by prince charles
Faithful Remnant wrote:
There is no compromise. I will not go to sit in a meeting even silently tuned out while my wife and kids are getting knocked over before my eyes because some self ordained evangelist said the Holy Spirit told him to hit them!
yes yuve gotta do it now, big mistake to wait until you are married cos they think they can answer back then and then youve got an argument. nows the time - look on it as a test and if you dont suceed, well be thankful that it happened now before you got married cos once you are married thats it you are stuck

these charismatics are a bunch of idolotors they dont want the real God, in fact its even worse - They dont like Him !

I dont know if there are many reformed preachers that speak estonian but that doesnt matter cos you can use a translator - just get hold of a reformed preacvher, me and my friend can also come and do siome creation talks if that would be any good

31

News Item4/28/09 11:20 AM
Faithful Remnant | Estonia  Find all comments by Faithful Remnant
Thank you takeheed for the idea and the website. There is quite a void here in Estonia and the most radical charismatics are raking in a harvest here. Like I said in my first post, if anybody knows of Reformed Protestants who know the Estonian language(or even Russan for that matter), come and preach here. It is sad to see them sit in a church that harbors these ministers. Estonians have struggled hard for freedom and many good Protestant preachers from here were exiled in the soviet period and Estonia's profession of Christianity dropped from 90% to 20%. To see them get deceived by these charismatic ministers is sad....giving up their hard earned money and freedom to these kind of people.
30

News Item4/28/09 11:11 AM
takeheed  Find all comments by takeheed
DJC49 speaks wisely dear Faithful Remnant. You could download some sermons from sermonaudio on the charismatic movement and Todd Bentley too and give them to your girlfriend.

I am a Geordie and from near Newcastle Upon Tyne England but not living there now. The city has a predominance of charismatic churches preaching heresy. Here is a watered down charismatic testimony from a former gang leader-notice his 'conversion experience' and his healing ministry success is in african countries (never in Newcastle) and of course he has led 1000's to Christ-but again not evident in Newcastle Upon Tyne. Yes not all we English speak like Prince Charles either!

[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isEEycfQe4k]]]gangland testimony[/URL]

or copy and paste http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isEEycfQe4k

The biggest danger to the churches...counterfeit Christianity

The ex-gangleader now is a Pentecostal Preacher and says: 'some of our church members actually experienced 'out of body' experiences in hell.'

29

News Item4/28/09 10:46 AM
Faithful Remnant  Find all comments by Faithful Remnant
Thanks DJC for the input. I am open to opinions on how to deal with this. Like I said, this was rather unexpected. I have never heard her answer to me so angrily before as when I said I would not seek the counsel of such people who say God tells them to hit others. That alone has me concerned. I think this violence started with Todd Bentley. A few people and myself discussed him a long time ago about the same issue on SermonAudio and at that time I determined he was not hearing God's voice. It sounds like this Guy Peh is the successor since Bentley divorced and remarried a ministry partner and then resigned..an absolute disgrace in the name of the Holy Spirit of the all holy God. I know where I stand and will not alter my belief on this matter. This is a tenet of faith and practice which cannot be compromised.
28

News Item4/28/09 9:45 AM
DJC49 | Florida  Contact via emailFind all comments by DJC49
Faithful Remnant wrote:
My girlfriend is rather charismatic in beliefs and practice,... she talked about how powerful the meeting was ... I asked my girlfriend "Do you believe it was God who said to Mr. Peh to hit the person?" She said yes. I sat silent and then said ... She said "Jesus used mud to heal. And the woman who Mr. Peh hit was healed." "Yes, true" I said and remained silent
FR -
Your girlfriend could not be more deluded. There is absolutely NOTHING in Scripture which sets any kind of precedent for HITTING someone in the name of the Holy Spirit for the sake of healing! Even IF there was some sort of healing going on (WHICH I SERIOUSLY DOUBT), NONE of this is in accordance with SCRIPTURE which MUST be our first concern!

All this Todd Bentley sort of nonsense is charismatic sensationalism & theatrics. It's idiocy, delusion, and DANGEROUS HERESY with (perhaps) demonic influence! MOST of the time, the supposed "healings" are afterwards found out to be faked and/or fraudulent.

Stay clear of this! ... and don't allow some gullible girlfriend to LEAD YOU (the man) down some garden path to perdition! Be the man! Instead of keeping silent, resolve that BOTH of you SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES, PRAY, and have the truth about this insanity brought to light.

27

News Item4/28/09 8:46 AM
Faithful Remnant  Find all comments by Faithful Remnant
There is more, Prince Charles....
My girlfriend suggested to go to hear Mr. Peh. My girlfriend is rather charismatic in beliefs and practice, but not like I imagined after this meeting. Later she talked about how powerful the meeting was and talked about God telling this evangelist to hit the sick person to heal. I asked my girlfriend "Do you believe it was God who said to Mr. Peh to hit the person?" She said yes. I sat silent and then said "I wouldn't go to a minister to be hit if I was sick." My girlfriend answered rather angrily "Oh yes you would." She said "Jesus used mud to heal. And the woman who Mr. Peh hit was healed." "Yes,true" I said and remained silent. I am now reasoning if I can live with this kind of belief system under the same roof and whether to allow this to be practiced by my family if we were to get married. It would be my duty not to sit silent but to explain why I believe differently and see where things go from there. There is no compromise. I will not go to sit in a meeting even silently tuned out while my wife and kids are getting knocked over before my eyes because some self ordained evangelist said the Holy Spirit told him to hit them!
26

News Item4/28/09 4:42 AM
prince charles | wales  Find all comments by prince charles
Be bold FR, try to speak your mind. I havent had morning devotions yet so I shall remember you !
25

News Item4/28/09 4:39 AM
Faithful Remnant | Estonia  Find all comments by Faithful Remnant
Sure, I can elaborate. Where to start...
One of my friends is the youth pastor in that charismatic church. He has connections with this evangelist. I haven't been silent about the meeting, telling this friend some of my impressions of the evangelist's behavior. Needless to say, I feel awkward, but God is comforting me and I feel He has confirmed my position on the matter. I need prayer for support and discernment. This is not easy, but necessary and important.
24

News Item4/28/09 4:18 AM
prince charles | wales  Find all comments by prince charles
Faithful Remnant wrote:
I would ask for your prayers because it appears I have been placed in a very strategic position regarding this event.
very interesting article FR, In Gods wisdom perhaps its high time the 'evangelical' movement was judged for putting causes before God.

Can you elaborate on your situation ? sounds interesting

23

News Item4/28/09 3:32 AM
Faithful Remnant | Estonia  Find all comments by Faithful Remnant
I would ask for your prayers because it appears I have been placed in a very strategic position regarding this event.
22

News Item4/27/09 3:10 PM
Candel Lit  Find all comments by Candel Lit
getmeouttahere wrote:
It taught me much about the evils of the charismatic movement and a lesson about providence. The lesson learned: THE HOLY SCRIPTURES are and must be our only guide.
Amen! What a wise lesson to learn.

Oh, that wretched desire of the human heart for "experiences!"

Absolute Truth, and principles for living and making decisions in every area of life, is in Scripture - If only we would seek to know it.

"The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple." Psalm 19:7

21

News Item4/27/09 2:11 PM
getmeouttahere  Find all comments by getmeouttahere
Candle Lit wrote:
"Lord, get me outta here." Needless to say, I will not make that mistake again!
I hadn't been converted very long when I was walking through the city and stood on a tract. Picking it up I was approached by 2 women and introduced to the pastor, then invited to their meeting. I went along the following evening and was introduced to a believer who had a speech impediment. Later he gave his testimony, then the pastor was on stage with his hands on the poor man's head speaking in gobbledigook and the congregation praying for deliverence of the dumb demon with their mantra 'jesus name, jesus name' whilst I sat in silence in the darkness that could be felt. The Pastor praised God for the deliverence. The 'believer' still had the speech impediment. It taught me much about the evils of the charismatic movement and a lesson about providence. The lesson learned: THE HOLY SCRIPTURES are and must be our only guide.

This charismatic group had 'faith' in god and a belief in jesus and read the holy scriptures, prayed, confessed sin, repented of sin etc-but they didn't 'evidently' have the faith which is the gift of God

20

News Item4/27/09 12:34 PM
Candle Lit  Find all comments by Candle Lit
Faithful Remnant wrote:
Then there was a time for requesting unusual miracles and it seems this was a time for the people to receive power from Mr. Peh
I had a similar experience - I wanted to invite a lady that I worked with to our church, but she invited me to her church and I agreed thinking that she would then visit mine. I knew we disagreed on theology, but what I didn't know was how extreme her church was. When I arrived and parked 2 blocks away and I could feel the vibrations and hear the music from that distance, I should have immediately gotten back into my car and fled. Nevertheless, I had made a commitment to be there, so I found my friend. 3 women in flowing white garb stood on a platform and the lead one spoke the word of God, then the other 2 would make a comment, define a word, etc. Afterwards, everyone lined up to go forward and the women would "hit" the forehead of the person who would then fall and be seemingly unconscious for a while. Wedged in between my friend and her son, I could not leave, but I was praying, "Lord, get me outta here." Needless to say, I will not make that mistake again!
19

News Item4/27/09 12:04 PM
Faithful Remnant  Find all comments by Faithful Remnant
Then there was a time for requesting unusual miracles and it seems this was a time for the people to receive power from Mr. Peh to do unusual miracles or to receive an unusual miracle(I suppose like hitting people to heal or whatever..certainly unusual). Did Jesus ever say Christians would do unusual miracles? Did the Apostles teach this? No! What exactly defines an unusual miracle? Greater things, yes, but unusual? Nope. So people came forward and Mr. Peh and his wife were saying something and laying hands on the people and people fell over. Some appeared hurt after the experience. Then Mr. Peh called for testiomonies. Two or three testified, but nothing unusual...the same as the typical charismatic TV show. Sad! "If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Please, folks, discern the spirits with an open Bible. Interesting how these traveling ministers and their followers believe in many gifts of the Holy Spirit but if one is discerning the spirits(also a gift) and proving things(also an exhortation), these people get on the defensive. Mr. Peh also said manipulation is witchcraft, but he was quite manipulative himself "If you don't shout, I am going to shake you...Hello, I said Hello! If you don't like a pastor, get over it!"
18

News Item4/26/09 6:01 PM
Faithful Remnant  Find all comments by Faithful Remnant
I think there is one in Tallinn...maybe affiliated with the Reformed Church in America. I would have to check this to verify it. Yep, this is upsetting news and experience I had today. You can check out this fellow who was here: www.guypeh.com He seemed rather innocent until he got to the part about him obeying "the Holy Spirit" telling him to hit people. "If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Not much light in that service...the typical ultracharismatic frenzy and manipulation, people falling over(some appeared hurt or struggling to get up), etc...and the money business too...a little sermon and prayer about money and then the bucket goes around. Actually I have local regular fellowship here in a local Lutheran church. I was just out visiting today. Some friends of mine attend this charismatic place.
17

News Item4/26/09 5:58 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Faithful Remnant wrote:
Yes, in Estonia. Only about 20% profess Christianity and probably a much smaller percentage of devout believers. This place is ripe soil for missions and the Estonians are falling prey easily to the latest "moves of God." I can't believe how people actually think this stuff is amusing or divinely sent. This is what happens when revelation and experience is taken at face value without knowledge of the Scriptures. Sad sad sad! I won't be participating in that church again. It is affiliated with Word of Life in Sweden and they have connections with the most popular charismatic teachers from the United States. I am a U.S. citizen studying over here.
Poor you! It must be very difficult living and studying in a country like that. And probably no local church or fellowship either. The charismatics are only rehashing what gone before; but they really are a dreadful bunch, and are IMHO detrimental to the cause of Christ, being so unrepresentational. Phew, that's a big word so late at night.
16

News Item4/26/09 5:53 PM
prince charles | wales  Find all comments by prince charles
Faithful Remnant wrote:
Yes, in Estonia. Only about 20% profess Christianity and probably a much smaller percentage of devout believers.
are there any reformed churches ?

it sounds terrible, part of satans plots to discredit the gospel with these fools

15

News Item4/26/09 5:32 PM
Faithful Remnant  Find all comments by Faithful Remnant
Yes, in Estonia. Only about 20% profess Christianity and probably a much smaller percentage of devout believers. This place is ripe soil for missions and the Estonians are falling prey easily to the latest "moves of God." I can't believe how people actually think this stuff is amusing or divinely sent. This is what happens when revelation and experience is taken at face value without knowledge of the Scriptures. Sad sad sad! I won't be participating in that church again. It is affiliated with Word of Life in Sweden and they have connections with the most popular charismatic teachers from the United States. I am a U.S. citizen studying over here.
14
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