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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  8/19/2019
Choice News SUNDAY, FEB 22, 2009  |  36 comments
Catholic Indulgences Make a Comeback
It sounds too good to be true. Now, for a limited time — the year of St. Paul, to be specific, which ends in June — say a prayer, pop by a designated church and qualify for an indulgence that deducts time from your scorching sojourn in the cleansing fires of purgatory.

Indulgences (no relation here to bubble baths or truffles) have been part of Catholic doctrine since the Crusades. When the Church offered them for sale in the 1500’s — call it mercy for money — religious reformer Martin Luther protested. These days, they can’t be bought. “How does that MasterCard ad go?” muses Sister Mary Ann Walsh, spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. “Some things are priceless.”

The pardons have fallen by the wayside in the past few decades, but they’re being revived in conjunction with a new emphasis on the importance of charity in Christian life. Catholicism, with 67 million followers in ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 36 user comment(s)
News Item2/28/09 5:54 PM
lyn | usa  Contact via emailFind all comments by lyn
GG~ as for your referencing to the guest who was wrongly dressed, I take it you are referring to Matt. 22:1-14
All were invited to the marriage feast, this wrongly dressed man included. All guests were rounded up quickly {from the highways, vs. 9}, so they would not have had an opportunity to dress appropriately. Their wedding garments were supplied by the 'king' himself. This man's wrong dress implies he rejected the provisions offered by the king.
The whole imagery seems to reflect on those who profess Christ verbally, yet are void of the garment of righteousness, which is needed to be a part of this feast. They seek to establish a righteousness of their own, by following doctrines of demons and man-made traditions.
It is a false convert trying to align himself with Christ, but his 'dress', i.e., lack of being born from above, does not fool the Master.
36

News Item2/28/09 5:31 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
lyn, just an excellent comment,
and pointing out John 19:30!

ol[URL=http://www.johnankerberg.org/Articles/_PDFArchives/roman-catholicism/RC3W0405.pdf]]]Roman Catholic Beliefs About Indulgences[/URL].

35

News Item2/28/09 5:16 PM
lyn | usa  Contact via emailFind all comments by lyn
GG~ you are confusing the curse of sin proclaimed by God on all mankind [as found in Genesis 3] with the individual accountability for sin. Physical death and decay, the results of the curse of sin brought about by Adam and Eve, will continue; Christ's death on the cross does not eliminate the curse proclaimed by God. Christ saves us from spiritual death, not physical.
I answered your 'if Jesus paid it all', quoting verses {Heb. 10:14, Heb. 10:25}. "IT IS FINISHED", complete, done, paid for in full. God forgives our sins because Christ suffered and died, then rose from the dead. I did not answer every question because we are only allowed to post so many words at once.
This world will continue to deteriorate until Christ returns. A new heaven and a new earth will be brought down, after this one passes away. God will make all things new, the curse of sin will be lifted, but not until this world is judged.
The 'Lord, Lord' reference you made is referencing false converts, those who claim Christ, but had never been born from above. It has nothing to do with God producing works or deeds in us.
As for the last judgment, NO born again believer is a part of this. This great white throne judgment is for unbelievers only.{read Revelation 20:11}
34

News Item2/28/09 4:49 PM
GG  Find all comments by GG
Lyn: I am asking questions, and you are ducking them. I asked, "If Jesus paid it all?". This is a question not a contradiction. If the sin of Adam and Eve caused us to be punished by toil and age and death; and, if Jesus "paid it all", then 1) we no longer toil, age, and die 2) Freedom from toiling, aging and dying were never on the radar screen 3) Jesus paid the price of some things but not others.
You said, "The cross of Christ reconciles lost sinners to God". The Cross of Christ is a piece of wood, only Christ can reconcile sinners.
Christ's suffering, and death is sufficient to Redeem mankind unto God the Father's good graces, and to save us from our sins. If that were the end to it, we could all go home and watch 'Mayberry RFD' reruns. I also noticed that you did not respond to the parable about the guest at the feast who was improperly dressed. What? No quick biblical reply? In sum, if God "Did it all", then why do we struggle? If God "Did it all", why use people to build your church? God doesn't need us to win his victory. Why did Mary say, "Be in done unto me according to your word". Why didn't God just..."Do it!". Why does Paul call us co-workers with God?
33

News Item2/28/09 5:18 AM
Phil | Philippines  Find all comments by Phil
GG, it is sad if those are your thoughts. CJW should continue his work as he is leading people through the power of God and the Holy Spirit to Him. That is much more important as just a thought has stated as this is far more important to do that to do good works. GG, maybe a start will be by reading Romans and start at chapter 1 and when you get to 10 then come back to this discussion. Lyn, I think you are blessed with a great ministry of words and writing, I hope you use this for His glory and to edify Him.
32

News Item2/28/09 4:35 AM
GK  Find all comments by GK
lyn

when Jesus on the cross said "it is finished",it is also translated as "the debt is satisfied"

seals it......

31

News Item2/28/09 12:06 AM
lyn | usa  Contact via emailFind all comments by lyn
GG~you said ,'if Jesus paid it all', you contradict the very word of God in saying such.
"Therefore, He is able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him" Heb. 7:25
"For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified" Heb. 10:14
Why are the elect still here? To carry on the work of the Lord, to proclaim the Gospel to lost sinners, to be a light for Christ, to witness with our changed lives the power of God in Christ.{Mark 16:15, Luke 8:39}
Why go to church? To fellowship, to worship God, to hear His word expounded by Godly men, called by Him to preach.{Heb. 10:25}

As for the parable on the ten virgins, this was a lesson on true and false converts. All fall into a state of apathy as the anticipation for Christ's return loses its' urgency, yet those who truly belong to Him do possess the necessary oil, the indwelling Spirit of God, so they are indeed ready when He comes. The false converts have no oil and scramble to ready themselves, to no avail. They never had the Holy Spirit, they were not born from above, changed from the inside out. Jesus Christ never knew them, He said, 'Verily I say unto you, I know you not' Mat. 25:12

30

News Item2/27/09 9:53 PM
lyn | usa  Contact via emailFind all comments by lyn
The cross of Christ reconciles lost sinners to God, the blood of Christ cleanses us from sin, and redeems us.

You think because the curse of sin is still upon this world Christs' death, burial and resurrection is not sufficient? Oh my!!
Women suffer pain in child birth because of the curse of sin, its affects do not go away just because God saves a lost sinner. The soul is saved, but the body still decays because of the curse of sin. We will grow old and we all die, this is the sin curse. This world remains sin cursed until the return of Jesus Christ. Read Genesis 3 for God's proclaimed curse because of Adam and Eve's sin.

God commands obedience, but this obedience can only come from a heart that has been changed by Him. Jesus Christ says, "Apart from me, you can do nothing" John 15:5 So, the power and desire to obey must come from Him as He renews our mind with His word.
All His children WILL suffer- "Indeed, all who live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted" 2 Timothy 3:12
"Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heave" Mat. 5:10
"Count it all joy, my brethren, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness" James 1:2-3

29

News Item2/27/09 8:19 PM
GG  Find all comments by GG
Lyn: We are saved by grace thru faith. Faith comes from God. We were saved by Jesus' death, we are being saved by Jesus' death and we will be saved by Jesus' death. The mechanism is unimportant, for his own reasons, he picked the cross.

If Jesus "paid it all", then all of our punishments from Adam and Eve would be cancelled; yet we see men and women living by the "sweat of their brow". Women still experience pain in child birth. We all will grow old and someday taste death. Jesus ransomed us from the Devil. He opened the gates of Heaven to us. But, he also requires us to "pick up our cross and follow him", be obedient, keep his commands and do his father's will. If God did not require something from us why the parables about:
1-"Not everyone who says "Lord, Lord"...
2-At the Last Judgement why aren't the Christians immediately allowed into God's presence? Why did Jesus commend them for feeding the hungry, visiting the sick, clothing the naked?
3-The story about the 7 virgins who brought extra oil and the foolish virgin who didn't.
3-The story about the Rich man's feast and the guest that wore the wrong clothes.

If you are already saved and God requires nothing from you...why:
1-Are the Elect still here?
2-Why do the Elect suffer?
3-Why go to Church? Why sin?

28

News Item2/26/09 2:43 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Lance, Martin Luther, put it very plainly 500 years ago, about works!
Martin Luther wrote:
Those who do not know God in Christ arrive at this erroneous conclusion: "I will serve God in such and such a way. I will join this or that order. I will be active in this or that charitable endeavor. God will sanction my good intentions and reward me with everlasting life. For is He not a merciful and generous Father who gives good things even to the unworthy and ungrateful? How much more will He grant unto me everlasting life as a due payment in return for my many good deeds and merits." This is the religion of reason. This is the natural religion of the world. "The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God. ( 1Co 2:14 .) "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." ( Rom 3:11 .) Hence, there is really no difference between a Jew, a Mohammedan, and any other old or new heretic. There may be a difference of persons, places, rites, religions, ceremonies, but as far as their fundamental beliefs are concerned they are all alike.
Lance, your efforts at [URL=http://www.ihcc.org/images/booklets/pdf/L117.pdf]]]Reversing the Reformation[/URL] will not work!
27

News Item2/26/09 7:56 AM
just a thought  Find all comments by just a thought
lance you still didn't answer, how can you produce these works, and how does meeting someone's physical needs glorify God? What if you [an individual, not a denomination as a whole] feed a homeless person, yet, do not give them the gospel of Christ...you've done a good work, but you neglected a greater work. Now what?
26

News Item2/26/09 6:06 AM
GK  Find all comments by GK
Lance Eccles wrote:
Yes, such works, small as they are, do count.
But you'll find a list of examples in Matt. 25:35–40 – feeding the hungry, giving shelter to the homeless, clothing the naked, visiting the imprisoned.
... as long as you do these thing for the glory of God, of course.
Christians are saved TO DO good works

Christians are not saved BY DOING good works

it's really quite simple

Lyn,when you said "If all sin were not forgiven on the cross, Christ would have to come back repeatedly to pay for those you claim He doesn't forgive."you hit the nail on the head

they need the mass because they don't believe calvary finished it all....they have to keep bring their Jesus down out of heaven to crucify him over and over again...

25

News Item2/26/09 12:11 AM
Lance Eccles | Goulburn, Australia  Contact via emailFind all comments by Lance Eccles
just a thought wrote:
lance can you produce these works? Where do they originate, and what kind of works are you speaking of? Holding open doors? Letting someone go before you in the check out line? Do works like this count, why or why not?
Yes, such works, small as they are, do count.

But you'll find a list of examples in Matt. 25:35–40 – feeding the hungry, giving shelter to the homeless, clothing the naked, visiting the imprisoned.

... as long as you do these thing for the glory of God, of course.

24

News Item2/25/09 8:31 PM
lyn | usa  Contact via emailFind all comments by lyn
GG~ this faith you say we must have, how do we produce such faith?
Also, if baptism were needed for salvation, why the cross?
How does a person remain faithful to Christ in a sin cursed world, being still in the flesh?
How does one come to true repentance, sincere godly sorrow over sin?
23

News Item2/25/09 8:07 PM
GG  Find all comments by GG
Lyn: No. Christ's work, the Redemption of Mankind, was totally finished at the Crucifixtion. God the Father's wrath was satified and mankind was made acceptable to Heaven, provided that man had faith in Jesus, became baptised, remained faithful to Christ throughout his life, repented and asked Jesus to absolve him from his sins, and followed Christ's commands.

CJW: There is nothing to add to it...“It is finished,” you must believe there’s no more to be done...you don’t truly believe Christ at all.

Resp: We are required to be faithful and obedient until the end of our days. To say that we have no obligation to Christ is cheap grace and in error.

22

News Item2/25/09 5:54 PM
just a thought  Find all comments by just a thought
lance can you produce these works? Where do they originate, and what kind of works are you speaking of? Holding open doors? Letting someone go before you in the check out line? Do works like this count, why or why not?
21

News Item2/25/09 5:51 PM
Lance Eccles | Goulburn, Australia  Contact via emailFind all comments by Lance Eccles
just a thought wrote:
The BIBLICAL view, which is the only view that matters, is that works are a result of salvation. They stem from a regenerate heart,
Then whatever way you look at it, it seems that works are essential.
20

News Item2/25/09 5:43 PM
lyn | usa  Contact via emailFind all comments by lyn
GG~ are you insinuating Christ's work on the cross was not complete? His death and resurrection was not sufficient for all sin? Can you please give us passages to clarify such a view?

Christ was teaching 'binding and loosing'; a body of believers, acting in accord with God's word, has the authority to declare if someone is forgiven or unforgiven. The church's authority is not to determine these things, but to declare the judgment of heaven based on the principles of the word. When believers say an unrepentant person is bound in sin, they are saying what God's word states. When believers say a repentant person has been loosed from sin, God agrees, all in accordance to what His word has already said on such matters. That is what the 'keys' means, all believers have authority to proclaim the binding and loosing of sin {keys symbolize authority}

When someone repents, ALL their sins are forgiven, paid in full, 'It is finished'.

"your sins are forgiven you for his names' sake" 1 John 2:12

If all sin were not forgiven on the cross, Christ would have to come back repeatedly to pay for those you claim He doesn't forgive.

19

News Item2/25/09 5:12 PM
GG  Find all comments by GG
CJW: The bible says that Jesus died to Redeem man because of his sins against the Father, but it doesn't say that Jesus has forgiven all man's sin. Jesus says to the Apostles, "Whose sin's you shall forgive they are forgiven, whose sin's you shall retain, they are retained (unforgiven). If you want to follow Protestantism, then all well and good, but please don't mislead the poor Phillipinoes, who mostly belong to the true and Catholic Church. Ok?
18

News Item2/25/09 5:11 PM
just a thought  Find all comments by just a thought
The BIBLICAL view, which is the only view that matters, is that works are a result of salvation. They stem from a regenerate heart, re-born by God himself. They aren't forced or mechanical; God brings forth in His own these works; obeying His word, growing in Christ, walking in humility, loving one another, edifying one another...these works cannot be taught or forced, they must be learned as we go through this life keeping our eyes on the Author and Finisher of our faith.
17
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