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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  7/19/2019
SUNDAY, FEB 15, 2009  |  35 comments
Southern Baptists Report Increase in Church Plants
The nation’s largest Protestant denomination reported an increase in the number of new church plants last year compared to 2007, its mission board announced this past week.

In 2008, there were a total of 1,538 Southern Baptist church plants ‚Äď six percent more than the 1,445 figure for 2007, the North American Mission Board (NAMB) informed its trustees on Wednesday at a meeting held in its offices in Alpharetta, Ga.

In addition, there was a net gain of 212 long-term missionaries in 2008, bringing its total to more than 5,600, according to the report by the mission agency of the 16-million member Southern Baptist Convention. ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 35 user comment(s)
News Item2/18/09 7:20 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Find all comments by Michael Hranek
lyn wrote:
Michael~ would you be gracious enough to explain to me what it is you are talking about?
You say, 'Paul Washer has no problem telling people to pray and keep on praying until either God saves them or they die'...I agree. Then you said, 'So apparently PW believes in praying through'---is this a reference to praying continually, or persistently?
Now I must ask, where did I state PW or myself disagree with heartfelt prayer?
lyn
I will explain in a personal email.
Thanks
35

News Item2/18/09 6:02 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
lyn wrote:
John UK~ there are a few sermons of Washer's available in transcript here at SA. One such sermon is called 'the ten indictments against the modern church in America'. Hopefully, you can download the pdf and read the preaching of this man.
One more thing, I am not here to defend Calvin; the word of God is what I stand on
Thanks for letting me know about the transcripts. Sure, I'll have a look at them, and if there is an mp3 sermon in audio, I'll see if I can download it, as I would rather listen than read. It will have to wait till tomorrow now, as it is getting late here in Wales, but I look forward to it, and will let you know how I get on.

I'm glad you stand on the word of God. To be able to trust every word of God found in scripture is a most wonderful position to arrive at, even if we don't understand it all.

Jesus is very precious in the eyes of all his children. And all his children are very precious in the eyes of Jesus.

34

News Item2/18/09 5:45 PM
lyn | usa  Contact via emailFind all comments by lyn
Michael~ would you be gracious enough to explain to me what it is you are talking about?
You say, 'Paul Washer has no problem telling people to pray and keep on praying until either God saves them or they die'...I agree. Then you said, 'So apparently PW believes in praying through'---is this a reference to praying continually, or persistently?
Now I must ask, where did I state PW or myself disagree with heartfelt prayer?
33

News Item2/18/09 5:44 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Find all comments by Michael Hranek
lyn wrote:
It is when a set form of prayer, a pre-written prayer is shoved in the face of the lost sinner, and then the lost sinner is instructed to repeat that prayer.
lyn
This is simply NOT what I am talking about.

Thanks

32

News Item2/18/09 5:25 PM
lyn | usa  Contact via emailFind all comments by lyn
Michael H.~ Again, let me clarify. I am not opposed to praying, neither is Washer {view the link posted for John UK on the thread referring to persecution in Vietnam church as it grows}.
It is when a set form of prayer, a pre-written prayer is shoved in the face of the lost sinner, and then the lost sinner is instructed to repeat that prayer. After doing so, he/she is told, 'welcome to the family of God'. This is not biblical. This is not how we are called to evangelize the lost.
If you watch the video posted on the other thread, Washer clearly speaks out against salvation based on praying a prayer. Yes, he says, some do get saved, but it isn't because of the method given, it is in spite of it.

Do watch it, then get back with me.

John UK~ there are a few sermons of Washer's available in transcript here at SA. One such sermon is called 'the ten indictments against the modern church in America'. Hopefully, you can download the pdf and read the preaching of this man.

One more thing, I am not here to defend Calvin; the word of God is what I stand on

31

News Item2/18/09 5:18 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Michael Hranek wrote:
Paul Washer has no problem telling people "Pray and Keep on Praying Untill Either God saves you or you die"
Hey I just had to respond to that, Michael. I praise the Lord you posted that. Hallelujah!

Why?

Because I will never forget that point in my life when Jesus visited me by his Spirit, and I realised the consequences of my sin, and the hope of a salvation through the Cross. I well remember that I said to myself, "I must begin to seek God for forgiveness, I will pray and seek him for salvation, indeed, I will not cease calling upon the name of the Lord until either he saves me or I die."

So if this Paul Washer preaches like that, then I am with him 100%. "Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." And the Bible is always right.

30

News Item2/18/09 4:39 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Find all comments by Michael Hranek
Calvinist Understanding wrote:
Hi Michael
Correct me if I am wrong, but the question of the calv's understanding of "inability" was I believe the thrust of your post.
CU
lyn
Candle Lit
DJC49

First, I am NOT a Calvinist and I greatly believe that the preaching of Who GOD IS is greatly needed today. For one reason Rom 10:12-15 and Yes! That men might know of God and fear Him as well.

lyn Paul Washer although he leans towards Calvinism simply does not preach like the "regeneration before and apart from repentance and faith 5 pointers" post on SermonAudio. He also likes Wesley and quotes him. Paul Washer has no problem telling people "Pray and Keep on Praying Untill Either God saves you or you die" So apparently PW believes in 'praying through'.

Candle Lit posted there "needs to be teaching on "WHO" God IS. Teaching on the attributes of God would be preliminary work in tilling the soil of the heart of the lost". Yes!

I will leave it at that for now.

29

News Item2/18/09 12:29 PM
lyn | usa  Contact via emailFind all comments by lyn
CU~ not that it is any of your concern, but Michael Hranek and I e-mail each other off these boards, I consider him a brother in Christ. We may differ on some things, but it doesn't cause division.
As for the video on faith being God's gift, you are in error; this isn't a 'Washer video'.

You are right, it is pointless in writing to me, I will not nor do not agree with wrong theology.

28

News Item2/18/09 12:21 PM
Calvinist Understanding  Find all comments by Calvinist Understanding
lyn wrote:
....I fear the Lord and would rather honor Him than be drug into endless, meaningless debates!!!
Oh really! Is that why you entered the debate over whether faith was a gift or not and have been busy pointing everyone to Washer's youtube videos about faith being a gift?

It is pointless writing to you, so this will be my last post to you. You can have the final say.

27

News Item2/18/09 12:01 PM
lyn | usa  Contact via emailFind all comments by lyn
CU~ So, because I refuse to be drug onto your merry-go-round, you react with a lame accusation of me being against clarity of thought? Okay...well, you are certainly entitled to your 'opinion'. I apologize I won't 'play with you today', but I do not make sport of rattling the cages of others. I do hold dear to my heart all my brothers and sisters in Christ; those who are humble, loving, and in that same love, correct me when I am wrong. They are a blessing to me, may the Lord be praised!
May I repeat, only God can reveal truth, man's debating must at some point cease; there comes a time we must no longer cast our pearls to pigs.

p.s.-I don't mind being called names {thin-skinned}, nor do I mind the accusations of having others contend for me {Paul Washer comment}, nor do I mind the accusation of 'selective hearing!
I fear the Lord and would rather honor Him than be drug into endless, meaningless debates!!!

26

News Item2/18/09 11:52 AM
Calvinist Understanding  Find all comments by Calvinist Understanding
lyn wrote:
CU~ I was already bracing for your comeback;I spoke truth about your continual arguing; we are not called to bicker with one another.
In the end, only God can reveal spiritual truth. To continue to go round and round is not God-honoring, nor is it the way we should spend our time.
Go down to Lurker's post, click on Eph.2:8,9, and watch this dynamic truth-filled video.
Good day to you
Bracing yourself? And what part of the second post did you find objectionable that you carry on calling me argumentative? If you are that thin skinned perhaps you should not post.

Re: Lurker's link - Thanks but I will stick to my Bible!

Presumably you are against clarity of thought?

it's a good thing that the apostle Paul did not take your attitude. Doctrine would not be anywhere as clear as it is were it not for his contending for the truth.

And then we have the injunction that we too are to contend for the truth.

I guess as long as it is Paul Washer who is doing the contending and you hear what you want to hear then the world is dandy.

And BTW.. I did not automatically label you based on a single verse you quoted. I have taken the time to read your other posts and have also visited your website.

25

News Item2/18/09 11:41 AM
lyn | usa  Contact via emailFind all comments by lyn
CU~ I was already bracing for your comeback;I spoke truth about your continual arguing; we are not called to bicker with one another.
In the end, only God can reveal spiritual truth. To continue to go round and round is not God-honoring, nor is it the way we should spend our time.
Go down to Lurker's post, click on Eph.2:8,9, and watch this dynamic truth-filled video. {Michael H.-I pray you will watch this video as well}
BTW~I base my beliefs on what God's word teaches, not on Calvin. If he believes the same way I do, it must be because that is what God's Spirit teaches through His word.

Good day to you

24

News Item2/18/09 11:33 AM
Dr. Notdeadyet | just a little sick  Find all comments by Dr. Notdeadyet
The Holy Ghost must have goofed up. He should have inspired Paul to write --------- "And you hath he given a wheelchair, who were hobbling around in trespasses and sins."
23

News Item2/18/09 11:28 AM
Calvinist Understanding  Find all comments by Calvinist Understanding
lyn wrote:
.... We are all in bondage to sin, until Christ frees us; we are slaves to sin. We aren't talking physical death, but spiritual. 'Dead' in that passages means - spiritually dead, destitute of a life that recognizes and is devoted to God, because of being given to trespasses ans sins-www.blueletterbible.org
Lyn

So much for "..and remember to be kind when addressing others"!

I did not realise that there was a law against jumping threads In any case here we are talking about inability not faith! So no jump.

Now that you have qualified your previous comment about what it means to be "dead" spiritually, I have no issues with your view.

But please try and be more precise when you write, because - believe it or not, clarity of thought can actually be a real help to others.

Now just read what Michael Hranek wrote and then what you originally wrote and finally your modified comments and tell me whether your final post would not be more helpful to Michael.

God bless.

22

News Item2/18/09 11:18 AM
lyn | usa  Contact via emailFind all comments by lyn
CU~It's apparent you have an argumentative, divisive spirit. You have jumped over from another thread to continue this endless debate. You automatically label me because of a text I quoted.
In that verse, who quickens? Why must He quicken? We are all in bondage to sin, until Christ frees us; we are slaves to sin. We aren't talking physical death, but spiritual. 'Dead' in that passages means - spiritually dead, destitute of a life that recognizes and is devoted to God, because of being given to trespasses ans sins-www.blueletterbible.org
21

News Item2/18/09 11:08 AM
Calvinist Understanding  Find all comments by Calvinist Understanding
lyn wrote:
It is clear the labels of calvinism vs. arminianism are where the real problem lies.
Drop the labels, and simply read what God says...Ephesians 2:1, "And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins". How do the dead bring themselves to life apart from Divine intervention? How does a lost sinner, whose heart is dead, bring him/herself to Christ?...
Lyn

Why would you insist on dropping the labels and then take the typical calv interpretation of what it means to be "dead in sins and trespasses"? The way you have put it the passage should just read "dead" - why bother with "sins and tresspasses". Have you ever seen a corpse "sinning and tresspassing"?

In the parable of the prodigal, when the prodigal returned the Father says, "...this my son was dead, and is alive again". Did you read of his dying? Was this an account of his resurrection?

20

News Item2/18/09 10:59 AM
lyn | usa  Contact via emailFind all comments by lyn
It is clear the labels of calvinism vs. arminianism are where the real problem lies.
Drop the labels, and simply read what God says...Ephesians 2:1, "And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins". How do the dead bring themselves to life apart from Divine intervention? How does a lost sinner, whose heart is dead, bring him/herself to Christ?

I am always reminded of this from the Lord Jesus, 'for without me ye can do nothing'{John 15:5}.
I am convinced the 'storms of life' are never-ending, they are sent to keep us humble,to keep us ever relying on our Lord, and to remind us we bring nothing to the table.

Rather than continually arguing over whether we help God in the salvation process, open His word, pray, ask for His wisdom and understanding, and remember to be kind when addressing others.

p.s. thank you Lurker!

19

News Item2/18/09 10:46 AM
Calvinist Understanding  Find all comments by Calvinist Understanding
Michael Hranek wrote:
...This seriously goes against the 5 points, doesn't it.
But it doesn't go against Rom 10:12-15
Hi Michael

Correct me if I am wrong, but the question of the calv's understanding of "inability" was I believe the thrust of your post.

I hear you and have great sympathy with what you say. I have myself heard calvs use 1 Cor 2.14 to make the point that when the gospel is addressed to sinners then without the Spirit's work it is all Gobble-de-Gook to them! They do not understand a single word of what is being said. This is part of their inability - they hear it as a foreign language - gibberish- and therefore ridicule it.

Is that what the passage is saying though?

18

News Item2/18/09 10:33 AM
Candle lit  Find all comments by Candle lit
DJC49 wrote:
Exactly, *Candle lit*
Closer to home, many contemporaries have a notion that God is nothing but an old benevolent uncle up in the sky -- a Santa Claus type. He loves everybody (except for REALLY bad people like Hitler and ax murderers) and He's totally approachable WITHOUT a mediator.
So it's extremely necessary as a foundation to the Gospel that the true nature of God be laid out. And it's EXACTLY what Paul did in his epistle to the Romans ... in his discourse, he started with GOD.
We agree. "How good it is for brothers [and sisters] to dwell together in unity."

Well said.

17

News Item2/18/09 9:47 AM
DJC49 | Florida  Contact via emailFind all comments by DJC49
Candle lit wrote:
So, what I am saying is that people need to know WHO GOD IS, before they can understand WHO THEY ARE (& etc.)
Exactly, *Candle lit*

For example: missionaries who go into areas where animism or shamanism is predominant must 1st teach about God -- that He is, who He is, what He is like. From this preliminary understanding of God, our human condition and relationship to this God is laid out. Without this basic teaching, the message of the Gospel proper to Jesus Christ is without meaning and none of Scripture would have any effect. Not even Rom 10:12-15. If missionaries, from the start, go in preaching: "Believe in Jesus Christ and you will be saved" without there 1st being an understanding of God, the preachers would be met with blank stares and/or false "conversions."

Closer to home, many contemporaries have a notion that God is nothing but an old benevolent uncle up in the sky -- a Santa Claus type. He loves everybody (except for REALLY bad people like Hitler and ax murderers) and He's totally approachable WITHOUT a mediator.

So it's extremely necessary as a foundation to the Gospel that the true nature of God be laid out. And it's EXACTLY what Paul did in his epistle to the Romans ... in his discourse, he started with GOD.

16
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