Farmers See 'Mark of the Beast' in RFID Livestock Tags
A group of community farmers, some of them Amish, are challenging rules requiring the tagging of livestock with RFID chips, saying the devices are a "mark of the beast."
Michigan and federal authorities say the radio frequency identification devices (RFID) will help monitor the travels of bovine and other livestock diseases.
"Use of a numbering system for their premises and/or electronic numbering system for their animals constitutes some form of a 'mark of the beast' and/or represents an infringement of their 'dominion over cattle and all living things' in violation of their fundamental religious beliefs," according to the farmers' lawsuit filed Monday in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia....
Outside the vatican selling vanilla ice cream cones-found is the very identity of the antichrist having followed 'bible christian who makesbelieve-tony l cisneros' detailed instructions it is 'Ivor De Sockov'
[URL=http://www.best-horror-movies.com/image-files/ice-cream-man-dvd-cover.jpg]]]following his description-this is him![/URL]
9/13/08 5:33 PM A Bible Christian Who Believes said
J.V. gave me a detailed description of The Coming BEAST/Anti-Christ:
I specifically made mention of St. Ephrem of Syria because he was indeed a post-Apostolic/post-Nicene Orthodox Trinitarian Judeo-Christian prophet & Contemporary of St. Athanasius; who agreed with St. Tertullian that THE Anti-Christ would be a LATIN-Man (LATEINOS). [THIS SHOULD BE OF GREAT IMPORTANCE IN ESCHATOLOGICAL STUDIES; AS HIS WRITINGS (St. Ephrem) WERE AUTHORED BEFORE THE ROMAN PAPACY (The Bishop of Rome) MONOPOLIZED THE "ROMAN" OR WESTERN BRANCH OF ORTHODOX JUDEO-CHRISTIANITY !]
TO SAY THAT THE FIRST 4 CENTURIES OF HISTORIC ORTHODOX JUDEO-CHRISTIANITY DID NOT BELLIEVE IN THE IMMINENT RETURN OF CHRIST FOR THE RAPTURE OF HIS CHURCH--IS BOTH TOTALLY FALSE AND HERETICAL & UNHISTORICAL AT BEST ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
One has to separate or divide the TWO different settings of THE Beast as related to me by J.V.:
#1.The Imminent/Coming/Future Political Operative within the EU in his/the #666 seat:
*666 [DE---- ----OV]
#2.His "REVEALING" To The World as THE Beast or THE Man of Sin: To be Worshipped by ALL (through THE False Prophet "Pope") under pain of Death AFTER CHRIST'S RAPTURE OF HIS TRUE CHURCH:
"Let no man decieve you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a Falling (Catching/Snatching) Away FIRST (that is, THE Rapture of CHRIST'S TRUE CHURCH or PEOPLE), and that MAN of SIN be REVEALED, The Son of Perdition...
And NOW ye know what WITHHOLDETH that He might be REVEALED in His TIME.
For the Mystery of Iniquity doth ALREADY Work: only HE who Now LETTETH (or HINDERETH) will LET (or HINDER), until HE be TAKEN (CATCHED/SNATCHED or RAPTURED) out of the way.
And THEN shall That Wicked(ONE) be REVEALED, whom The LORD shall consume with The Spirit of His Mouth, and Shall DESTROY with The Brightness of HIS COMING." 2 Thess. 2:3-8.
#2 was ALSO seen by St. Ephrem in 373 AD:
"For ALL The Saints...of God are GATHERED, Prior to The Tribulation...and are TAKEN to The LORD lest they see THE CONFUSION...OF OUR SINS." !
I believe it may be filled by THE Beast BEFORE he's "Revealed" (BEFORE He Sits In The Re-built Temple as THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION !)
This "Beast" of Rev. 13; who's a Political personage, possessed of Satan, should NOT be confused with "THE False Prophet"; who J.V. says is purely a "Religious" personage from The Roman Catholic Papacy--The Pope of Rome: Who'll be The One Who Gives The MARK of THE Beast to ALL of Mankind; under pain of DEATH:
"And I beheld ANOTHER Beast coming up out of the EARTH; and he had Two Horns (Church & State) like a LAMB, and he spake as a DRAGON.
And He exerciseth all the power of the FIRST Beast before Him, and Causeth the Earth and Them Which Dwell Therein to WORSHIP the FIRST Beast,..
And He doeth Great Wonders, so that He Maketh Fire Come Down From Heaven on the Earth in the sight of men,...
And He Causeth ALL, both small and Great, Rich and poor, Free and bond, to Receive a MARK in Their Right HAND, or Their FOREHEADS:
And that NO Man might Buy or Sell, save he that had The MARK, or The NAME of THE Beast, or THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME.
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count THE NUMBER of THE Beast: for it is THE NUMBER of a man; and HIS NUMBER is ." Revelation 13:1
I'm not confident that the software would resolve this satisfactorily unless it cites specific manuscripts. But thanks for the recommendation; perhaps I'll check it out.
According to Wikipedia, the digit "6" should've been represented in ancient writing with digamma, not stigma. Therefore, we should not expect to see stigma in the most ancient Rev. MS, or else the digits were spelled out per W&H.[URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digamma]]]Digamma[/URL]
Neil wrote: Uh oh. That's not the digit 6, but the word "hex" (Gk. for "six"), which is the alternate given by Berry in his footnote, & contradicts the other rendering. So we still need to consult the ancient MSS, and that's where my expertise ends right now. Thanks for the help, unless you are better acquianted with them.
I can't say that my knowledge is even adequate but I can give a resource that may be of some help. I use a software program called E-Sword which is free to download. They have a load of modules that are free such as all the TR and WH MSS, also the LXX and most of the Hebrew. You might check into this. WWW.E-Sword.net.
Uh oh. That's not the digit 6, but the word "hex" (Gk. for "six"), which is the alternate given by Berry in his footnote, & contradicts the other rendering. The KJV, by spelling out "six hundred, threescore, and six," is actually a literal rendering of that & the preceding Greek words in W&H's edition.
So we still need to consult the ancient MSS, and that's where my expertise ends right now. I know of a site that has scans of some, but they're not indexed conveniently.
Thanks for the help, unless you are better acquianted with them.
Neil wrote: Good, but is stigma the final digit (6)? Stigma looks like a trailing sigma. Sigma comes in two flavors: the circle with a wavy tail on top, or the trailing kind that looks like a squished Latin 's'. The latter is what stigma resembles.
Neil wrote: Now my Berry Interlinear Gk. agrees with the Geneva's margins, but the safest way to resolve this is to see how the most ancient MSSs (i.e., Alexandrian!) render it. Note, the RCC was not fully developed during that time-frame.
Unless, I am mistaken, looking at Wescott and Horts Greek NT, 666 is spelled out and not represented by Greek letters.
Re your last remark, I want to emphasize that on the rendering of "666," early Greek manuscripts are VITAL to confirm the theory in the Geneva's margin notes (and esp. Gotthispoint's), for it relies on how the number was originally "spelled" - the Greeks used letters to represent 600, 60, and 6, but so far, I can't get a consistent story from Gk. scholars on what letter represented "6" circa the 1st Century.
Now my Berry Interlinear Gk. agrees with the Geneva's margins, but the safest way to resolve this is to see how the most ancient MSSs (i.e., Alexandrian!) render it, for Berry had a footnote giving a totally different alternate rendering for the number.
Neil wrote: Strange that you should ask. ALL Scripture is profitable for doctrine etc. (2 Tim 3:16), Revelation is Scripture, therefore Revelation, including ch. 13, is worth investigating, even by Pretribbers (which I'm not). And as I've said below, I don't find the "seat 666" issue all that compelling; I just thought it worth a closer look in case folks bring it up again.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that 2 Tim 3:16 is important. My concern is with the comments by "a Bible Christian Who Believes", it sounds a lot like the garbage that the 7th day adventists present in their magazines.
But, I guess it does boil down to what one believes as far as whether one is pre-mil, post- mil or A-mil.
As far as RFIDs are concerned, I think that bio-metrics would better fit the role of being identified with the numbers 666.
Your mention of the Geneva Bible footnote is a good one. Textual investigation is definitely worth looking into as far as earlier MSS are concerned.
"I don't see the reason why it matters who the antichrist is"
Strange that you should ask. ALL Scripture is profitable for doctrine etc. (2 Tim 3:16), Revelation is Scripture, therefore Revelation, including ch. 13, is worth investigating, even by Pretribbers (which I'm not). And as I've said below, I don't find the "seat 666" issue all that compelling; I just thought it worth a closer look in case folks bring it up again.
And this is the 1st time I've investigated such Antichrist matters in years! At this point, I think the historical Protestant interpretation (that the Papacy is the Antichrist) is most persuasive.
BTW, the Geneva Bible footnote on Rev. 13:18 agrees broadly with what Gotthispoint posted. But I do have a textual question about whether the "stigma" was used for the digit 6 around the 1st Century, for some secular sources claim digamma was the digit 6. So is stigma in the earliest MSS? Or did a later copyist change it to medieval convention?
hidemi williges wrote: Let me ask you a question. What is more important; knowing where the Antichrist sits in the EU or leading as many people as possible in getting saved?
AMEN, first things first! Jud 1:20-25 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen
hidemi williges wrote: I believe we are in the midst of the reality of Revelation coming true. Let me ask you a question. What is more important; knowing where the Antichrist sits in the EU or leading as many people as possible in getting saved?
If you believe that we now know things about the rapture and tribulation that Luther and Calvin could not have known, then you must believe that Revelation is continuing. It has generally been accepted in Christian circles that Revelation finished with the death of the last of the Apostles.
And to your question -- it is vitally important to lead as many souls as possible to salvation. Where the Antichrist sits in the EU probably isn't very important at all.
Lance Eccles wrote: Did Calvin and Luther know that they were going to be raptured before the tribulation?
No, they did not and why would they, since they lived in a different period of time. As each day passes by; prophecies are being fulfilled before our very eyes. I believe we are in the midst of the reality of Revelation coming true.
Let me ask you a question. What is more important; knowing where the Antichrist sits in the EU or leading as many people as possible in getting saved?
hidemi williges wrote: I don't see the reason why it matters who the antichrist is, since we would be raptured before he comes into power. Unless, of course, one plans to be here during the tribulation.
Did Calvin and Luther know that they were going to be raptured before the tribulation?