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FRONT PAGE  |  9/21/2019
Choice News WEDNESDAY, APR 30, 2008  |  26 comments
Christian Ministry Fined $23,000 in Gay Discrimination Case
One of Canada’s largest Christian ministries dedicated to caring for the disabled was fined $23,000 recently by the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario for allegedly discriminating against a former homosexual employee.

Connie Heintz claimed discrimination against Christian Horizons after she said she was “subjected to a poisoned work environment” and pressured into quitting her job after she entered a homosexual relationship – which was in violation of her work contract back in 2000.

In line with its Christian foundation and principles, the ministry requires that all its employees sign “morality statements” vowing to abstain from immoral behavior, including pornography, pre-marital, extra-marital, and homosexual activity as a condition of employment. ...

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 26 user comment(s)
News Item5/8/08 9:55 PM
Jake ON. | Brandfort Ontario Can.  Contact via emailFind all comments by Jake ON.
shakehead: A $23000. fine for Christian Horizon which main service is mentally retarded humans who's rights are trampled upon by a director of the Ontario Human Rights Commission is an outragious wrong direction. Do homosexuals rights overrule the care protection and rights of those who cannot protect themselves from predators? If a cheater by signing a code of conduct be rewarded so handsomely and a truly HUMANE Society is punished for it, should this whole warped bunch not be fired? Christian Horizon will gladly accept them ALL!

News Item5/4/08 10:26 PM
Jhawk44  Find all comments by Jhawk44
As far as Christianity is concerned I think the US is currently the best the world has to offer... :\

My family considered moving to another country for this purpose... but they all seemed worse than the US.


News Item5/4/08 8:58 PM
jj  Find all comments by jj it's not too far fetched. I have made three trips over 1000 miles durring the last three years looking for a place.

Why is it that in the west it seems that reformed=rich=materalistic? I have started to look in the south.

Got any ideas? Maybe outside the USA? I wonder if faith can even live in a culture such as ours. Evedently not well at all.


News Item5/4/08 6:06 PM
Joseph | New Jersey  Protected NameFind all comments by Joseph
Wow, I guess the famine in the land is worse than I imagined. The question is has God turned this nation over to its disdain for the Word of God by making godly churches such a rarity? To what extend do we go without compromising? Is it too far fetched to pick up our families and move where we know God's Word is preached?

News Item5/3/08 6:55 PM
jj  Find all comments by jj
If the gospel is the ONE thing we have in common (and I beleave it is). How can I go to a free-will, or lawless type organization to worship God and have fellowship (to say nothing of being exposed to rock type music and fleshy dress)?

I would not tell my worst enemy to go to any church within 80 miles of here.

I feel lost and perplexed, but not so much as to go back, I been down that road.


News Item5/3/08 1:17 PM
Kyle Smith | Elkton, MD  Contact via emailFind all comments by Kyle Smith

I can assure you that my rationale is not to avoid Biblical authority or to avoid sound preaching. I want a group of people who will strengthen me and keep me accountable and who will allow me to return the favor. I also understand that you were speaking in generalities and not necessarily accusing me of ill intent, and I harbor no resentment towards you for bringing up your questions.

This actually has a bit of irony to it. Choosing a home church because it "suits me better" than the institutional church I left is the same logic as changing churches for carnal reasons, only it is masked as a better motive. It's all an economy of scale. If my complaint is the commercialism and consumerism, my recourse cannot be in any form that utilizes that same system to express my disfavor. The only logical escape to this inconsistency is to stop speaking of changing teams and leave the league entirely. When I chose to do that, I found others outside the arena who have similar stories.

It is then that I took the red pill and was unplugged. I learned that my spiritual eyes are sore and weak, because I had never really used them. (Continuing the "Matrix" analogy) My muscles were atropined from years of "church".


News Item5/3/08 12:45 PM
Joseph | New Jersey  Protected NameFind all comments by Joseph
Believe me Kyle, I can identify with what you are saying - I believe that much of what I have seen among the Sermon Audio audience being 'lone rangers,' is the result of the terrible Amos 8 famine in the land. I know this is the hand of God judging the American religion of consumerism and pragmatism.

However at the same time, none of the churches in Asia were perfect either, yet there was genuine koinania going on within them. Perhaps there is a local church that is preaching the Word of God, which also fosters home fellowships in your area - perhaps you can even just join a home group from a good local church. How hard have you sought this? I don't say that to accuse, only to ask if you have.

Also, I'd say that the same way people choose churches because of carnal and fleshly reason (like a good children's ministry), people choose not to fellowship for similarly fleshly reasons - like I don't want to be under authority or I don't want someone to preach to me. Again I do not say this to accuse, but I have noticed this kind of attituded among brethren who I've been in contact with through Sermon Audio. I think that in addition to being in days of Amos' famine, we are also in the days of the Judges, where everyone is doing what is right in their own eyes.


News Item5/3/08 1:46 AM
Kyle Smith | Elkton, MD  Contact via emailFind all comments by Kyle Smith

What if the only churches within 100 miles were Catholic? Would it then be sinful to not attend? What if they were all Universalist? Does the context of which you speak give an implicit command to attend the closest church no matter what?

Which shall I pick? I could go to A, but B has more comfortable seats! Wait a minute, C has child care AND complimentary coffee? Oh, but D has a bookstore, casual attire, coffee, AND donuts. With so many choices, what's a consumer to do these days? Poor Paul, he only had one choice.

If the context card is to be played, it needs to be done consistently. The context of the 'ekklesia' passages (those "one another" passages) is not the American system that we have created. The "gathering together" those passages reference is the fellowship and iron-sharpening experience to be had with other Christians.

The institutional church is completely void of these relationships. In fairness, there are some churches that offer "small groups". The ironic thing is that once these small groups become fruitful, they fulfill the "one another" mandate you reference, and the institutional church that birthed them is no longer needed.


News Item5/2/08 11:56 PM
Joseph | New Jersey  Protected NameFind all comments by Joseph
Kyle Smith wrote:
I'm not afraid of personal conflicts within a real church, because they are a side effect of real fellowship. You don't have that in the institutional church where people dress up and pretend for 2 hours once a week.
I would be very happy to be a part of an 'ekklesia'. I wish I could find a group of believers with which to fellowship here, but I can't.
I agree that most of the established churches are filled with hypocrits, but again I ask how can anyone obey the New Testament commands - in particular the "one another" verses, apart from a local church - home church or otherwise? If there are no home churches in your area, is it not better to obey God by not neglecting "the assembling together of yourselves?" My experience is that Sermon Audio has many lone ranger Christians who are sinfully not participating in the body of Christ by participating in a local church. And I don't think there's anyone calling it for what it is.

News Item5/2/08 9:42 PM
jj  Find all comments by jj
I thought I was the only one out in the desert. You guys have blessed me today. Praise God. Pass the red pills.

News Item5/2/08 12:32 PM
Kyle Smith | Elkton, MD  Contact via emailFind all comments by Kyle Smith
I'm not sure I'd want to spend all day at it, but I think we're in agreement about the strict liturgical stuff. I'd love to find a fellowship that is spirit-led instead of agenda-led.


News Item5/2/08 11:51 AM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Kyle is right - it might help the social aspect if the church gathering didn't last only two hours or so. What's the rush? We have all Sunday. Why not have Bible or topical discussions prepared by *all* the men, not merely a few? Have coffee breaks or hors d'oeuvres in between, as needed. I've heard some excellent messages (length doesn't matter) preached by guys with *no* rhetorical talent. Even better if the congregation were informed several days before what verses might be discussed, so all would be prepared. This dovetails nicely with regular family devotions, which also helps men learn how to conduct group discussions.

See 1 Cor. 14:26 - there is order, true, but not rigid, outlined liturgy. It seems more like an open forum.


News Item5/2/08 8:45 AM
Kyle Smith | Elkton, MD  Contact via emailFind all comments by Kyle Smith

I'm not afraid of personal conflicts within a real church, because they are a side effect of real fellowship. You don't have that in the institutional church where people dress up and pretend for 2 hours once a week.

I would be very happy to be a part of an 'ekklesia'. I wish I could find a group of believers with which to fellowship here, but I can't.


News Item5/2/08 8:01 AM
Joseph | New Jersey  Protected NameFind all comments by Joseph
Kyle, how is it then that you obey the New Testament which frames most of its precepts in the context of fellowship within the church? Fake smiles aside, are not conflicts within the body of Christ one of the means Christ uses to conform us to His image?

News Item5/1/08 10:01 PM
Kyle Smith | Elkton, MD  Contact via emailFind all comments by Kyle Smith
No, I don't attend a home church. There aren't any in my area on the East Coast. My departure from the corporate church was spurred on by the book "Pagan Christianity" by Frank Viola. My faith has grown by leaps and bounds now that I have to study for myself instead of buying pre-packaged sermons.

Neil is right about the conflicts, and marriage is a very good analogy. The real church is made of real people with real imperfections. When you strip away the dress clothes and the fake smiles, you see each other as fallible human beings, and personal conflicts are inevitable.

As for your question about the "starve" statement, yes. The typical pastor is the CEO of a business which is part of a larger multi-billion dollar corporate empire. Each church is nothing but a business looking to capture customers on the open religious market. I absolutely loathe his worldview, but Richard Dawkins hit the nail on the head in "The God Delusion" when he said,

"Rival churches compete for congregations - not least for the fat tithes that they bring - and the competition is waged with all the aggressive hard-sell techniques of the marketplace. What works for soap flakes works for God..." (p 41)

There's a lot you can learn when you take the red pill.


News Item5/1/08 9:52 PM
Doug | eastern Virginia  Find all comments by Doug
This kind of activity in Canada is one of the clear reasons why just as impermeable a border needs to exist between the USA and Canada as is the plan for the border between the USA and Mexico.

News Item5/1/08 9:35 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
jj, yes, but I probably won't join, for doctrinal & other reasons. I used to be more of a "joiner" till I found out how expendable we really were once a conflict arose. N.B., we were treated no better by house churches than by the more organized sort. I think it's a broad problem that has nothing to do with church polity etc. Dumping nonprofit-corp. status is only part of the solution here.

Depend upon it, conflicts *will* arise if you're involved w/ a church for any length of time; the critical question is, as in marriage, whether the commitment is mutual. Of course, some marriages last when one spouse plays the doormat!


News Item5/1/08 9:29 PM
jj  Find all comments by jj
Kyle: thanks, I found the web site, and it is an eye-opener.

Neil said: "If the pews aren't full, his family starves".

Is this true, or do they just not get to go to collage?

Do you guys attend a home church?


News Item5/1/08 5:04 AM
Mark M. | GA in USA  Contact via emailFind all comments by Mark M.
"Gottheil also ORDERED THAT THE ORGANIZATION ABANDON ITS CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES barring homosexual behavior and issued mandates that it begin requiring all employees to attend a homosexual oriented “human rights training program.”

This is the sort of thing that I have faced as a part of the teacher's education program at my school. Trust me when I tell you that have not yet encountered this stuff, Christians are seen as the bad guys here. The schools, and now the churches apparently, demand inclusion. The homosexual minority (and actually even a minority of that group) become offended, not because Bible based facts about their sins are exposed, but rather that the heterosexual lifestyle is promoted as normal and the way things should rightfully be. In order to make this small precentage of people feel comfortable, the majority has to tolerate or to even celebrate what they feel is an abomination according to God's word. The champions of tolerance feel good about themselves, because no one is discriminated against. They do not think forcing Christians to give up their beliefs to be discriminatory. The only thing they will not tolerate is intolerance. There are many behaviors that Christians will not tolerate, so they are at odds with the PC leaders and laws of our lands.


News Item4/30/08 10:22 PM
Kyle Smith | Elkton, MD  Contact via emailFind all comments by Kyle Smith
Neil & JJ,

I agree. Incorporating your church is at best ignorant and at worst just plain stupid. I recommend the books "In Caesar's Grip" and "Hushmoney" by Peter Kershaw.

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