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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | Fridays | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  11/24/2017
SUNDAY, APR 16, 2006  |  33 comments
Making Right Turn, McCain Embraces Falwell
April 14, 2006 ‚ÄĒ This week Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., has been on a tour of key states like Iowa and New Hampshire, apparently laying the groundwork for a possible presidential campaign.

In 2000, McCain ran for president as a different kind of politician. "We're on a bus called the Straight Talk Express," he said at the time. "I gotta give you the straight talk."

Straight talk meant taking on powerful Christian conservatives such as the Rev. Jerry Falwell.

"Neither party should be defined by pandering to the outer reaches of American politics and the agents of intolerance, whether they be Louis Farrakhan and Al Sharpton on the left, or Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell on the right," McCain said in 2000. ...


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
abcnews.go.com

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 33 user comment(s)
News Item6/21/06 3:17 PM
Neil | Tucson  
Caner's statement is meaningless. Baptists have long disagreed (since the 17th century at least) about these doctrines; a responsible disputant should make clear exactly what he believes without using such vague terminology.
33

News Item6/21/06 3:12 PM
David | Las Vegas  
I belive Caner said that he was not a Calvinist or an Arminian but a Baptist!
32

News Item4/21/06 9:04 PM
kn | usa  
That's an understatement.
31

News Item4/21/06 7:40 PM
OC, Free Will Ind. Baptist, KJO, post-trib rapture  
33K -- I wouldn't listen to White.

I hate him.

30

News Item4/21/06 6:25 PM
33k  
Cheryl,

That's an interesting thought - but if you follow that logic through then TLC is worth listening to and James White is not. I can't agree with that.

I'm a TR person myself but in my view James White's theology is far more in accordance with the Authorised Version than that of a typical AV only person.

But, if that's too much of a problem for you then you will have to stick with Ergun Caner's www.getoverit.com.
No offence intended, you said you liked Caner's style of preaching.

In all seriousness I do recommend White's review of the sermon.

29

News Item4/21/06 5:10 PM
OC, Free Will Ind. Baptist, KJO, post-trib rapture  
James White the attacker of the KJB?
28

News Item4/21/06 5:04 PM
33k  
Cheryl,

I would recommend the excellent critical analysis of the sermon in James White's broadcast of 13 April which can be found here:
http://www.aomin.org/dl01.ram

(You'll recognise the source for the RBTR info if you do )

27

News Item4/21/06 4:44 PM
OC, Free Will Ind. Baptist, KJO, post-trib rapture  
"For example, he began his sermon with words to the effect of "Why I am not a calvinist, specifically a hyper-calvinist".
He has an inane position of not being a calvinist, not being an arminian (which of course he clearly is) but being a baptist (which is just an irrelevant a use of the word - it happens a lot)."

I don't remember him saying it that way. I remember him saying he was a Calvinist but not a HYPER Calvinist.

He specifically said over and over, The reason I would never be a HYPER Calvinist is because, ...."

I can tape the sermon and type those portions, or just go back and relisten to the sermon.

I heard him say he was a Calvinist but not a HYPER Calvinist.

His beef is with Limited Atonement, Double Predestination, and most likely also with Irresistible Grace.

His opposition to Limited Atonement is 100 percent, as per the sermon he preached.

The reason why he calls himself a Calvinist is because almost without a doubt he is OSAS all the way. This is pure Calvinism.

But I do remember he specifically said each time, HYPER Calvinist and I thought I heard him say he was a Calvinist, just not a HYPER Calvinist.

"The reason I will NEVER be a HYPER Calvinist..." is what he kept saying.

26

News Item4/21/06 3:25 PM
33k  
Cheryl,

Caner attacked Calvinism thoughout that sermon, switching his terminology at whim between "Calvinism" and "Hyper-Calvinism" without reason or cause. It was tacky and crass "poisoning of the well" in preparation for his fake debate.

For example, he began his sermon with words to the effect of "Why I am not a calvinist, specifically a hyper-calvinist".
He has an inane position of not being a calvinist, not being an arminian (which of course he clearly is) but being a baptist (which is just an irrelevant a use of the word - it happens a lot).

Of course, for a real example of a biblical obsession for Missions he had to resort to using the example of a Calvinist - but even in retelling the anecdote he managed to get his facts totally wrong - wrong place, emasculated quote, wrong theological context.

And your right, I'm sure all his errors were in his notes, that's WHY it would be better for him to borrow notes from someone who gets their facts right - e.g. Reformed BAPTIST Theological Review, Vol 1 No 1, p57-58.
Based upon his conduct (of which he is proud) Caner is unfit for his office.

25

News Item4/21/06 2:53 PM
OC, Free Will Ind. Baptist, KJO, post-trib rapture  
quote: "However Caner would be much better served by speaking from notes, in fact borrowed notes would probably be the best! Again, he'll love you for calling him a "calvinist".

*****

Well, 33k, Caner called HIMSELF a Calvinist. He said he was a Calvinist, but that he wasn't a Hyper Calvinist.

And all through his sermon he made three points and always started them off by saying, And here's another reason why I would never be a HYPER Calvinist...

Remember?

And I noticed he did have notes. He probably has like a list of points he wants to make and his verses mapped out and then he speaks extemporaneously.

Baptists are good at that because they evangelize all the time. If you can witness without notes, you can preach without notes.

Caner is a good preacher AND a good teacher.

24

News Item4/21/06 2:26 PM
OC, Free Will Ind. Baptist, KJO, post-trib rapture  
33K -- Re the Illuminati and Masons, I wish I could joke about it, but truly they are everywhere. It's not chicken little to say that.

For example, we're being heavily chemtrail-sprayed here where I am. It's so in-your-face arrogant that the Illuminati gets away with it.

People just can't conceive of anyone having that much power and being that evil. So these *&%$#@ carry on their unspeakable deeds right under our noses, and over our heads.

And the population is oblivious, just blanks it out, finds excuses, and goes on as though nothing was wrong.

Meantime, GWB is so arrogant he flashes the Illuminati sign everywhere, and was flipping it off all through the Inauguration parade as though to say, Ha, we got them, SUCKERS!

And, no, it's not the Hook 'em hand signal for Texas U. Bush never went to that college, so why would he be flashing their hand signal? Plus the real hook 'em hand signal is with two hands facing out and put up to the head to signify the long horn, nothing like the Illuminati hand signal our nice leaders are flashing in public now with a smirk on their faces.

23

News Item4/21/06 2:19 PM
OC, Free Will Ind. Baptist, KJO, post-trib rapture  
Engineer -- Have you read this website that proves George Bush is the Antichrist?

According to this guy the numbers of his name come out to 666 every way you work it, along with important dates like his inauguration, etcetera, birthdate, all worked into the equation.

Have you looked at this? What do you think? The guy claims the numbers show that GWB's numbers coming out 666 the way they do are like 1 in a gazillion.

Says we are already in the Tribulation.

Uses the Hebrew letters for numerology along with the English letters, and either way it's 666.

Is this bogus?

I mean GWB is AN Antichrist no matter how you slice it, but could it be he's one of the characters mentioned in the end time prophecies?

22

News Item4/21/06 2:13 PM
33k  
Cheryl,

No, I do not mean speaking in a monotone.
However Caner would be much better served by speaking from notes, in fact borrowed notes would probably be the best!

Again, he'll love you for calling him a "calvinist".

As for me, give me a Charles Wesley over an Ergun Caner any day. (I know little about Finney).

Nice to see you got the Illuminati and the the Masons in again, I was getting worried there for a minute .....

21

News Item4/21/06 2:03 PM
OC, Free Will Ind. Baptist, KJO, post-trib rapture  
33k -- If by not being a pit bull you mean speaking in a monotone or reading from a prepared script, that's not Caner.

But he's well prepared, knows his material. If he wasn't making good points, say about double predestination, you guys wouldn't be hollering ouch so loud.

He even said he's a Calvinist -- just not a HYPER Calvinist.

He's attacking the doctrine of double predestination and also the Limited Atonement.

He's an OSAS guy I'm sure, so he agrees with you guys on points 1 and 5 in your TULIP, and to some degree on points 2 and 4.

If you hate this guy so much, I wouldn't want to imagine what your feelings are about Charles Finney or Wesley.

I'll tell you one reason why Calvinism is going to come unravelled. The main thing it had going for it was the claim that the founding fathers were all Calvinist.

Now we learn the whole thing was one big Illuminati plot anyway, so who cares about all that? They were all Masons and Illuminists.

God gave us a Bible we can believe and trust, and we need to take a fresh look at the scriptures and try to put away all these heresies. Double predestination is one that has gotta go.

20

News Item4/21/06 1:45 PM
33k  
Cheryl,

You don't realise it but we calvinists actually wish that all of that were true.
I truly wish he was a good preacher, full of the Holy Spirit, and able to get his point across.

Of course, if he was he would have no problem with a properly constructed and organised debate. Still, any fool can play the pit-bull as has been said.

James White in his broadcast on 18th April asked some very pertinent questions about whether Caner employs the same method in debating with Moslems. That's worth thinking on.

19

News Item4/21/06 12:50 PM
OC, Free Will Ind. Baptist, KJO, post-trib rapture  
"Any fool can play the pit-bull."

If that was all Caner was, a pit-bull, I doubt the Calvinists would be all in a huff.

He's full of the Holy Spirit, not afraid of nothin, and he's one darned good preacher!

He's also not ignorant of what he speaks, knows how to get his point across, and doesn't double-talk.

He's going to blow you guys out of the water.

18

News Item4/21/06 11:40 AM
Neil | Tucson  
"Go get 'em." Well I have less ambitious hopes that Caner will modestly & non-fallaciously present his case. Then the church might be well served.

Any fool can play the pit-bull.

17

News Item4/21/06 9:17 AM
OC, Free Will Ind. Baptist, KJO, post-trib rapture  
33k -- If I was Jerry Falwell I wouldn't let James White on my campus.

And Caner is a good guy except for being a bit too Calvinistic for my taste.

After seeing how the Calvinists have been whitewashing Lucifer on this forum, advocating the word "Morning Star" be substituted for the word "Lucifer" --

and a few other things --

I say, go get 'em Pastor Caner!

Thanks for pointing me to Caner's sermon. I thought it was interesting that he said the most raging controversy in Christendom today is between Calvinism and free will, that it's really hot in the seminaries.

So this forum is not an anomaly at least.

16

News Item4/20/06 7:28 PM
Neil | Tucson  
I agree. I suspect Lynchburg is well-named in this case. Quite a contrast to the many well-ordered Prot./Catholic debates during the Reformation, & the one at Marburg between Luther & Zwingli about Communion. The aristocratic sponsors were truly noble for that. And Dordt of course. Man, those were the days...
15

News Item4/20/06 7:24 PM
33k  
I admire James White's ability and confidence to be able to go to Liberty and contend for the faith once delivered to the saints, but unless Caner is willing to have a proper (i.e. moderated and on a specific proposition) debate then I fear White is wasting his time with this 'free-for-all'.

Also James White has cautioned people against travelling to Lynchburg as he cannot confirm that they will even be able to gain admittance. (Makes the FIFA World Cup ticket allocation look more than generous, but that's another story). It's a farce.

Perhaps it would be better not to bother allowing the circus to happen?

14
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